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Posted: 1/25/2022 1:24:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele doesn't make the USASOC URG-I. They only made the rail and charging handle. Geissele made URG-Is that people buy are "clones". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's funny you mention commercial. I read an article and G said they don't differentiate between contract and civilian items. https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/geissele-super-modular-rails-overview/ "I want to stress that we’re never making a batch extra special because we know it’s going to end up overseas with soldiers or because it’s going into the hands of law enforcement" Geissele doesn't make the USASOC URG-I. They only made the rail and charging handle. Geissele made URG-Is that people buy are "clones". So who assembled them? |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:13:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You made a claim and then proceeded to explain the circumstances of your "accuracy test" using words like "usually mil-spec ammo" had some match ammo one time, and won't post results. I have tested my fair share of barrels and I don't have a dog in this fight, but claiming one high end manufacturer smoked another high end manufacturer and then proceeding to undermine our confidence in your opinion with the admission that you usually shoot m193 and xm855 makes everyone pause. You haven't truly tested either barrel and you should admit that your thoughts on the relative accuracy of a or b cannot be backed up with any evidence. Then you doubled down. https://i0.wp.com/www.thenewrifleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/STJ-7-5-17-Hornady-53-eld-cold-bore.jpg That barrel took multuple loadings to test and many hours of load development to truly see what it could do. We get it, you like G but show us how it smokes your novekse. Okay, and? Good for you. My geissele is more accurate than my noveske. Feel free to build your own 12.5 noveske with a geissele SSA-e trigger and prove me wrong. Compare it to a 14.5” SD. That’s my experience. Why should I say “oh, it’s not, I’m just saying that” when it’s true? The geissele is fantastic. Does that go against the OP? Sure does. I’m not a reloader, I’m not going to spend weeks building a load when I don’t care to do that. That’s not my cup of tea. I enjoy shooting. Both are fighting rifles, not precision guns. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:20:58 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm with Molon on this one. If I ordered something that was premium and it came across with a finish like a closeout special Armalite rail, I'd be pretty unhappy.
Out of curiosity, I pulled up the G website for the rail and I have to say that Molon's does look worse than the advertised photo. Sure, there is some grain in the photo from anodizing and boosting the image exposure in post (they need a better product photographer) but the finish is notably better in the product shot. (Note to G staff: base ISO, more light in the shot, and a crapton less exposure boosting in post.) To be blunt, my $200 Christmas special rail and receiver set from Aero has a way nicer finish than what Molon got.  And it's sad when a rail that retails for literally $100 less has a better finish.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:45:53 AM EDT
[#4]
The amount of people making excuses for a sub-par premium item is mind blowing. It doesn't matter if it can be "smoothed out" or painted over. If the company touts a product as "X" level quality then I expect my sample to be that.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:53:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The amount of people making excuses for a sub-par premium item is mind blowing. It doesn't matter if it can be "smoothed out" or painted over. If the company touts a product as "X" level quality then I expect my sample to be that. As I mentioned, OP needs to go out and shoot it. My Mk4 fed rail was the same. Now that iv'e used it, the evil white chalkiness is gone |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 5:11:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As I mentioned, OP needs to go out and shoot it. My Mk4 fed rail was the same. Now that iv'e used it, the evil white chalkiness is gone OP needs to do what he wants and not what he's being told to do by someone making excuses. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 7:02:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP needs to do what he wants and not what he's being told to do by someone making excuses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As I mentioned, OP needs to go out and shoot it. My Mk4 fed rail was the same. Now that iv'e used it, the evil white chalkiness is gone OP needs to do what he wants and not what he's being told to do by someone making excuses. Where in the above text was the excuse you're referring to? I'll wait. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 7:10:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where in the above text was the excuse you're referring to? I'll wait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Where in the above text was the excuse you're referring to? I'll wait. Quoted: As I mentioned, OP needs to go out and shoot it. My Mk4 fed rail was the same. Now that iv'e used it, the evil white chalkiness is gone Didn't take long really. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 7:59:17 AM EDT
[#9]
7 pages of bickering and crying over a finish that either self corrects or could be rectified by Geissele.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 8:16:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 7 pages of bickering and crying over a finish that either self corrects or could be rectified by Geissele. You are free to do as you choose with what you buy, but you are not free to dictate and cry over what you think should have been done with the things that you do not own or have spent the money on. Handle it your own way, but for some paying premium prices and getting this is unsatisfactory and should never have left the factory for sale to the public and not being sold as a blemished product and priced accordingly and lower than premium.  |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 8:39:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Isn't Areo and BCM cerakoted? I could be wrong being long time members are comparing with Geissele.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 8:43:25 AM EDT
[#12]
What a useless shit show.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 8:50:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a useless shit show. It feels like an argument with women I've dated and I don't even know what I'm arguing about. I've learned most guys here are as clueless as I am with this stuff at least 
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Posted: 1/25/2022 9:03:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Geissele has quickly fallen out of a high tier, and even out of mid tier in my book. I won't be buying any more of their crap until they get it together.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 9:17:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: KAC & LMT MLR rails do the same shit  My KAC FF RAS does the same thing. My 2x LMT CQB MRP uppers are perfect, a deep and consistent finish. Better finish than any other uppers/rails I've had (but I've only had about 12), which surprised me given what I've heard about LMT. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 9:43:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele has quickly fallen out of a high tier, and even out of mid tier in my book. I won't be buying any more of their crap until they get it together. You tier ranking is weird. I love Geissele guns because of how they shoot. I also love my purplish SR25 because it shoots great, should I hate it because the finish is slightly off? Guns are for shoot, not for being mad at when coloring is slight off. I hope the recent upper I ordered (will be my 4th Geissele upper I like them so much.) has horribly off weird multicolored anodizing. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 9:48:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Mk1 for life. I just wanna sr25 34mm mount. It's getting painted so it can look like shit for all I care
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:33:26 AM EDT
[#18]
I'm with Molon, i hate poor quality products from top tier companies and he has a right to be mad.
BUT ! I've learned from this forum and others You give the manufacturer or seller the opportunity to make it right . Then you post the problem and how they resolved the issue. Companies are judged not only by the quality of their products but also by how they resolve issues with their customer service. Sorry Molon i would have respected you more if you would have tried to let Geissele correct the issue first then posting the outcome, if they screw you over I'm on your side but as it stands now its just a post with a bunch of whining. Not very professional which is what i thought you were. And for those guys that keep saying "its just a tool go shoot it" stop trying to be some hard ass operator. Don't drink the Kool-Aid these companies are handing you, hold them to quality standards. Would you buy a $50,000 truck with a finish that's all chalky ? |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:38:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who assembled them? Armorers, at least mostly. Geissele didn't. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:46:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. I was just referring to the rail being the same no matter where it originated from, that is if Geissele was being truthful. Well, the rail should be the same. The biggest variables for rail damage is the gas block used with the rail and accessories mounted near the gas block. Only the DD pinned gas block was ever issued. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:47:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You won’t find pics, but a lot of the ARs I assemble and work on shoot at people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How about you post a pre-existing link to what an AR-15 that you've assembled can do. .... You won’t find pics, but a lot of the ARs I assemble and work on shoot at people. What is it with you? Trying to make a name for yourself, inventing credentials? I build this and my build can do this but you have to rake my word for it, I have no proof, just my word. I do make weapons for super secret squirrel, black ops, alphabet soup guys, but it’s all to secret to tell anyone. 
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Posted: 1/25/2022 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a useless shit show.  at its best.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 11:25:26 AM EDT
[#24]
So that I'm not derailing the thread: Normally I subscribe to the idea of giving a mfr the opportunity to correct something before posting about it, but I think the amount of problems people have had with G in the last couple years makes this a little bit different of a situation. I was a huge fan of G products, but like others have said I think they spread themselves too thin trying to make too many different things. The Mk4 and Mk8 rails are my favorite rails that I own. I would love to see G drop everything from their catalog except triggers, rails and mounts, and have a return to the same quality they were known for. Thats not going to happen as long as people keep making excuses for them.
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really like my Midwest Industries, I think I like it a bit better than my BCM  https://i.imgur.com/46Up6MP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QpJVwr3.jpg . . . https://i.imgur.com/sogK9re.jpg @Derek45 How did you get the plum color? Is it RIT dyed FDE furniture? Also what is up with the eye relief for your optic there? 
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Posted: 1/25/2022 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Armorers, at least mostly. Geissele didn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So who assembled them? Armorers, at least mostly. Geissele didn't. I thought it was Daniel Defense. Meaning G would send the rails to DD and DD would assemble and send to them. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 12:49:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Bro. Need to put electrical tape on that deflector, or it isn't going to match your murse.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 1:24:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought it was Daniel Defense. Meaning G would send the rails to DD and DD would assemble and send to them. DD put the kits together. If they made, any complete URG-Is for USASOC, I'm not sure. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 1:25:35 PM EDT
[#28]
@Molon
So after logging out and doing some chores, I was thinking about this. I as in me, and I bet I speak for many in this site? I read Molon’s posts and regard his tests very highly, I have on more than one occasion changed build plans because of his results. I could almost be called a stocker looking for his posts to see if has covered what I am planning to build. I have also worked up hand loads based on his results verse starting from scratch. Why waste a bunch of 68 grain when 75 grain provided better results in the application I am building or have built. Time is precious and wasting a bunch of it for lesser results, with Molon’s posts he saves many of us time all the way around, he also has changed my purchase plans yet again. I was looking at picking up a MK4 13” in black for a build and now I’m looking at the EE as I’m not wanting to get something like he received. When I pay that type of money I expect better products then what he received. It also makes me question what else may be sub standard? Molon is a true ARFCOM asset unlike others in this thread that are trying to make a name for themselves by criticizing Molon with no bases, no facts and absolutely nothing as far as proof to back their claims. Some posters here remind me of the late John Burns trashing members with nothing to back their claims of grandeur. I say thank you Molon, for all the work you have done for us here, and look forward to more helpful threads and posts! Your thankless, monetary less work benefits many!! ETA, I have no bone is the fight, and I do not know Molon other than from his highly informative posts and threads |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 1:33:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Derek45 How did you get the plum color? Is it RIT dyed FDE furniture? Also what is up with the eye relief for your optic there? @2apatriot RIT dyed FDE to brown nothing is plumb except my AK-74 ? odd lighting maybe ? ?? eye relief — i am 6’ 4” and shoot “nose to the charging handle” it’s perfect for me |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:18:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't take long really. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where in the above text was the excuse you're referring to? I'll wait. Quoted: As I mentioned, OP needs to go out and shoot it. My Mk4 fed rail was the same. Now that iv'e used it, the evil white chalkiness is gone Didn't take long really. That was an excuse? Derp. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:19:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Derp. Exactly. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:21:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Geissele has been an instagram brand for years. The only products that were actually special and truly premium were the triggers.
Everything else is done better or done cheaper by someone else. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:33:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't Areo and BCM cerakoted? I could be wrong being long time members are comparing with Geissele. No idea on BCM but black aero is anodized. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:40:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Derp. Exactly. Example of an excuse: Wow their anodizing bath must have been off that day. Example of a fact: If you shoot it, the white chalkiness will dissappear. But thinking that hard is above your pay grade. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:46:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No idea on BCM but black aero is anodized. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn't Areo and BCM cerakoted? I could be wrong being long time members are comparing with Geissele. No idea on BCM but black aero is anodized. Black BCM is anodized, FDE is cerakote. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:50:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Black BCM is anodized, FDE is cerakote. OK the cerakote tan bcm and Aero isn't too bad. Seems pretty durable from what I've seen. Like anodizing better with use it breaks in better imo. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 2:57:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Example of an excuse: Wow their anodizing bath must have been off that day. Example of a But thinking that hard is above your pay grade. You also used an ad hominem; (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining by being rather too quick to attack me as inferior to your own form of mental midget gymnastics. It's a tactic someone uses also to deflect and undermine as a last resort because their prior argument has failed. https://effectiviology.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/#:~:text=The%20ad%20hominem%20attack%20is%20used%20as%20primarily%20as%20a,or%20to%20change%20the%20topic. I'm not sorry, but your thinking is flawed and if you still want to insist that 1+1=5, well you can enjoy that line of wrongful thinking all on your own then. It never should have left that factory and telling someone to ignore it and that it will smooth out is an excuse for their shit QA/QC. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:07:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele has been an instagram brand for years. The only products that were actually special and truly premium were the triggers. Everything else is done better or done cheaper by someone else. Why are they and their components used so much in .mil and .gov agencies then? Surely if comparable, let alone better could be had for cheaper, that would be selected, no? It’s just comical to me that a rail comes out with a finish that has been accepted as KAC fanatics and somehow that is an indictment of Geissele products that are widely used/circulated in military, LE, and .gov |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:14:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Normal
 
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:19:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they and their components used so much in .mil and .gov agencies then? Sure if comparable, let alone better could be had for cheaper, the would be selected, no? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Geissele has been an instagram brand for years. The only products that were actually special and truly premium were the triggers. Everything else is done better or done cheaper by someone else. Why are they and their components used so much in .mil and .gov agencies then? Sure if comparable, let alone better could be had for cheaper, the would be selected, no? Biggest Fed law enforcement agency in the country uses BCM. I’m sure Geissele made them a pretty good deal on the rails. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:19:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele has been an instagram brand for years. The only products that were actually special and truly premium were the triggers. Everything else is done better or done cheaper by someone else. I'll just leave this here.    
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:22:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no excuse for what left that factory, and telling him to shoot it and that it'll sort itself is also an ECXUSE when being used as a noun: a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense, something that you tried to even deflect with. You also used an ad hominem; (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining by being rather too quick to attack me as inferior to your own form of mental midget gymnastics. It's a tactic someone uses also to deflect and undermine as a last resort because their prior argument has failed. https://effectiviology.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/#:~:text=The%20ad%20hominem%20attack%20is%20used%20as%20primarily%20as%20a,or%20to%20change%20the%20topic. I'm not sorry, but your thinking is flawed and if you still want to insist that 1+1=5, well you can enjoy that line of wrongful thinking all on your own then. It never should have left that factory and telling someone to ignore it and that it will smooth out is an excuse for their shit QA/QC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Example of an excuse: Wow their anodizing bath must have been off that day. Example of a But thinking that hard is above your pay grade. You also used an ad hominem; (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining by being rather too quick to attack me as inferior to your own form of mental midget gymnastics. It's a tactic someone uses also to deflect and undermine as a last resort because their prior argument has failed. https://effectiviology.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/#:~:text=The%20ad%20hominem%20attack%20is%20used%20as%20primarily%20as%20a,or%20to%20change%20the%20topic. I'm not sorry, but your thinking is flawed and if you still want to insist that 1+1=5, well you can enjoy that line of wrongful thinking all on your own then. It never should have left that factory and telling someone to ignore it and that it will smooth out is an excuse for their shit QA/QC. Lmfao. Ok boomer. WhEn bEiNg uSeD aS a nOuN. My point still stands. If you use the product as intended, the evil white chalkiness goes away. Or you know, he could just return it and quit crying about while you others suck him off. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:27:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What a useless shit show. Mother of God... 
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:33:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lmfao. Ok boomer. WhEn bEiNg uSeD aS a nOuN. My point still stands. If you use the product as intended, the evil white chalkiness goes away. Or you know, he could just return it and quit crying about while you others suck him off. You've got no point so no standing as of yet so far, you have no grounds to make the terms for the complainant, and you have been giving zero quantifying responses, only excuses mixed with personal attacks making this also an emotional and not logical responses from you. And if you think that validating with corroboration that this isn't a one time issue is sUcKiNg hIm oFf, then at the illogic in all of that.
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:35:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You did another personal attack, you're just not good at this at all even LMFAO. You've got no point so no standing as of yet so far, you have no grounds to make the terms for the complainant, and you have been giving zero quantifying responses, only excuses mixed with [ersonal attacks making this also an emotional and not logical responses from you. And if you think that validating with corroboration that this isn't a one time issue is sUcKiNg hIm oFf, then at the illogic in all of that.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lmfao. Ok boomer. WhEn bEiNg uSeD aS a nOuN. My point still stands. If you use the product as intended, the evil white chalkiness goes away. Or you know, he could just return it and quit crying about while you others suck him off. You've got no point so no standing as of yet so far, you have no grounds to make the terms for the complainant, and you have been giving zero quantifying responses, only excuses mixed with [ersonal attacks making this also an emotional and not logical responses from you. And if you think that validating with corroboration that this isn't a one time issue is sUcKiNg hIm oFf, then at the illogic in all of that.Did you miss your 'personal attack' directed at me? Give it up. If you don't like a product send it back. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:51:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you miss your 'personal attack' directed at me? Give it up. If you don't like a product send it back. I don't attack unless I'm being attacked first, it's a flaw of mine that has more to do with being frustrated at someone trying to undermine using fallacy based arguments in a technical discussion with the intent to undermine using vitriol. And you have attacked me without provocation. Twice. Give up yourself first, your excuse holds no water and you don't get to make the terms of the complaints people have. Why are you upset with people making or rather exposing something for all potential consumers? As I've said before way more than once, if it wasn't for this thread, I would never have known that this was an actual issue as mine is the same as the OP's. I'm certainly not going to return something that's already been assembled. Function>form but that still doesn't mean that I should not be raising my hand and saying that it's a rather poor thing to pay a premium for, either. You don't get to make the terms for the complainants. We do. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 3:56:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Biggest Fed law enforcement agency in the country uses BCM. I’m sure Geissele made them a pretty good deal on the rails. I don’t know what that implies. My point was that some claim they products are trash/subpar. Meanwhile Marshalls, ATF, DEA, FBI, DHS, Navy, Army, Air Force, SOCOM have Geissele contracts. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re the best or anything, but surely they can’t be as bad as people are implying. Hell SF and CAG continue to use their rails so again, how bad can they be. The army contract was for $300k and Socom for $65k, realistically that’s not a lot in the DoD/.gov world so if they were having issues I can’t see them to continue using a subpar product in those roles specifically. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:01:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you miss your 'personal attack' directed at me? Give it up. If you don't like a product send it back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lmfao. Ok boomer. WhEn bEiNg uSeD aS a nOuN. My point still stands. If you use the product as intended, the evil white chalkiness goes away. Or you know, he could just return it and quit crying about while you others suck him off. You've got no point so no standing as of yet so far, you have no grounds to make the terms for the complainant, and you have been giving zero quantifying responses, only excuses mixed with [ersonal attacks making this also an emotional and not logical responses from you. And if you think that validating with corroboration that this isn't a one time issue is sUcKiNg hIm oFf, then at the illogic in all of that.Did you miss your 'personal attack' directed at me? Give it up. If you don't like a product send it back. The point here it looks like shit, was done incorrectly and the amount paid for item it should be like others have posted. If I buy a rail from anyone when all other rails were as expected then receive one like this I would be pissed. Oiling it, rubbing it down, shooting it all are excuses and do not address the issue. How about I throw out, what if it doesn’t clean up or correct itself? If this has gone thru QC, what else has been missed? They toss out or I should say the mark others that have lessor issues as this as blems, and blemulas are reduced in price accordingly. Charging full rate for that is wrong and you should have to do this or do that in HOPES it will correct itself. Fuck how can such a simple concept go so sideways and be not seen by people? This is a fucking shit show of epic proportions. Pay top dollar, get sub standard part, equals refund or replacement. Not sell if you do this and or do that it should be good to go. What if I wanted to take it out of the box and assemble it for project waiting on the rail? Nope gotta do this and do that first, time is money now Molon is out money and more time either trying these workbench tricks, or dealing with its return. See simple, 1+1=2 |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:06:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only products that were actually special and truly premium were the triggers. Geissele barrels are my favorite single product they make. I’d rather a Super Duty uppers than any other, replaced my KAC with them. |
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Posted: 1/25/2022 4:12:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Geissele barrels are my favorite single product they make. I’d rather a Super Duty uppers than any other, replaced my KAC with them. |
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