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Posted: 1/9/2016 3:46:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
“Quarter” Minute of Angle
Here’s a simple exercise that you can conduct to assess the consistency of the overall performance of your AR-15, ammunition, scope and zero. You will need to down-load one of the 100-yard targets (in .pdf format) that are pictured below, from the links at the end of this article (whichever target you prefer.)  Attached File Attached FileAs you can see in the pics above, the targets consist of the images of ten U.S. quarters in a row (or two rows of five quarters), on an 8.5” x 11” piece of paper. The nominal diameter of a U.S. quarter is 0.955”; in other words, it is a sub-minute of angle target at a distance of 100 yards. Post the target at a distance of 100 yards from your shooting point. Using an AR-15 chambered in 5.56mm/223 Wylde/223 Remington and shooting from any position that you choose, with or without any support that you want, fire one shot and one shot only, at each of the ten “quarters” on the target. In order to score a “hit” on an individual quarter, the center of your bullet-impact must break the outline of the quarter. The quarters should be shot at in consecutive order (left to right or right to left) in order to more easily keep track of any “collateral damage” (hitting one quarter when you were actually aiming at another.) Take as much time as you like in-between each shot, but at the end of the exercise you can only have ten bullet holes on the target. As an example, the target pictured below was shot from the bench using one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s with match-grade hand-loads.  Attached FileIs the performance of your AR-15, ammunition, scope and zero consistent enough to make a single shot on a sub-minute of angle target 100% of the time; ten out of ten attempts? 90% of the time; 9 out of 10 attempts? 50% of the time; 5 out of 10 attempts? Down-load the target and find out! Links to targets, in .pdf format: single row of quarters two rows of quarters …. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 4:15:34 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought this was gonna be like the "box" or "square" test.
So that's what the Internet Commandos mean by 0.25 MOA when they do their part... 
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Posted: 1/9/2016 4:31:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TaylorWSO]
[#2]
pffft
I use real quaters 
i love your threads thanks for coming back |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 4:36:30 PM EDT
[#3]
I think I'll try this over 10 range trips.... one cold bore shot per trip.
Different conditions and all...
Most things have tendency hide after the first shot... paper is unafraid and will hold still. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:16:57 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm definitely gonna try this out on my next range trip out!!
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:23:37 PM EDT
[#5]
You guys know that damaging US currency is a crime right!?!?!
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:27:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaylorWSO:
pffft I use real quaters <a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/taylorwso/media/PICT2383.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/PICT2383.jpg</a> i love your threads thanks for coming back Forget the obvious NFA violations that you're most likely guilty of. Destroying U.S. money will get you a trip to Gitmo. OK...that was totally a BS claim about destroying money, but I couldn't resist. 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:27:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Great Idea, the link to the Download didn't work for me though.
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:34:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By matticuski:
Great Idea, the link to the Download didn't work for me though. Try the link now and let me know if it works. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 5:58:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Definitely going to try this next time out. The link worked for me...thanks.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2016 6:06:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaylorWSO:
pffft I use real quaters <a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/taylorwso/media/PICT2383.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/PICT2383.jpg</a> i love your threads thanks for coming back 2 birds with 1 stone. Practice both accuracy (technically, precision)  shooting and paying panic prices at the same time.
+1 on the comeback. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/9/2016 6:49:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Tried this last weekend...
With a giant FFP center dot the results were somewhat predictably disappointing. Will try again, with something with a more appropriate optic, and maybe retry with that one dialing instead of trying to hold. |
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Posted: 1/9/2016 9:30:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Very good challenge! Now I have something fun to do at the range.
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Posted: 1/9/2016 10:05:50 PM EDT
[#13]
My gun Club does a short rifle league every winter that is essentially this, only we use 1" pasters. It is tougher than most people think.
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Posted: 1/10/2016 4:47:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki:
It is tougher than most people think. Indeed. 
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Posted: 1/10/2016 5:52:02 PM EDT
[#15]
My prediction - there will be FAR fewer posts here, than the "1MOA all day" thread.
This challenge is a tall order. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 6:05:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALARAK:
My prediction - there will be FAR fewer posts here, than the "1MOA all day" thread. This challenge is a tall order. Why? If you and your rifle aren't capable of averaging <1 MOA over 25 shots, it's certainly not capable of hitting a 1 MOA target 10x in a row. FWIW last year was the first time I (or anyone in that very small league) cleared all 10 1" targets. I did it with a rifle that shot this in the MOA challenge: 0.668/0.602/0.615/1.041/0.587 = avg 0.702 = 0.671 MOA I couldn't do it with the rifle I was using previously, which did this in the MOA challenge: 0.865/ 0.680/ 0.620/ 0.432/ 0.93/ Avg. .7054 = .674 MOA The rifle that had the smaller average also had a 5 shot group over 1 MOA, while the rifle I wasn't able to clear 10 with had 5 sub MOA groups of a higher average. Probably more to do with me than the rifles. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 6:57:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Cool!
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Posted: 1/10/2016 11:29:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki:
Why? If you and your rifle aren't capable of averaging <1 MOA over 25 shots, it's certainly not capable of hitting a 1 MOA target 10x in a row. Um.... you made my point. 
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Posted: 1/12/2016 10:21:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
So that's what the Internet Commandos mean by 0.25 MOA when they do their part... All day long . . . with iron sights and Wolf ammo. 
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Posted: 1/12/2016 10:40:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jBoy723]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Indeed. https://app.box.com/shared/static/3unx4itgpuwhv9ic4bc532nj4ftmwwmi.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
It is tougher than most people think. Indeed. https://app.box.com/shared/static/3unx4itgpuwhv9ic4bc532nj4ftmwwmi.gif It for sure is tough but, I love the fact that it's challenging and fun. We used the page of (10) 1" dot targets during the Mk12 Clone shoot we hosted and I think I only got 4 out of 10. I will say that the contest we were having had a par time so, I wasn't concentrating as much as I would be shooting this one but, I'll probably still get the same result..LOL.. ETA: And I also want to thank you Molon for posting again here on the site. When I first came on board, it took me a few years to register and participate but, I would definitely seek out your threads and posts so, when you went on your hiatus, it definitely wasn't the same without you around here. Just wanted you to know that the info you post doesn't fall on deaf ears so to speak. |
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Posted: 1/12/2016 11:13:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jBoy723:
It for sure is tough but, I love the fact that it's challenging and fun. We used the page of (10) 1" dot targets during the Mk12 Clone shoot we hosted and I think I only got 4 out of 10. I will say that the contest we were having had a par time so, I wasn't concentrating as much as I would be shooting this one but, I'll probably still get the same result..LOL.. ETA: And I also want to thank you Molon for posting again here on the site. When I first came on board, it took me a few years to register and participate but, I would definitely seek out your threads and posts so, when you went on your hiatus, it definitely wasn't the same without you around here. Just wanted you to know that the info you post doesn't fall on deaf ears so to speak. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jBoy723:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
It is tougher than most people think. Indeed. https://app.box.com/shared/static/3unx4itgpuwhv9ic4bc532nj4ftmwwmi.gif It for sure is tough but, I love the fact that it's challenging and fun. We used the page of (10) 1" dot targets during the Mk12 Clone shoot we hosted and I think I only got 4 out of 10. I will say that the contest we were having had a par time so, I wasn't concentrating as much as I would be shooting this one but, I'll probably still get the same result..LOL.. ETA: And I also want to thank you Molon for posting again here on the site. When I first came on board, it took me a few years to register and participate but, I would definitely seek out your threads and posts so, when you went on your hiatus, it definitely wasn't the same without you around here. Just wanted you to know that the info you post doesn't fall on deaf ears so to speak. I appreciate your kind words. |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 4:39:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALARAK:
This challenge is a tall order. It's simple, but it's not easy. 
... |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2016 5:14:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaylorWSO:
pffft I use real quaters <a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/taylorwso/media/PICT2383.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/PICT2383.jpg</a> i love your threads thanks for coming back A piece of paper costs less than $1.25 |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 1:56:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By matticuski:
Great Idea, the link to the Download didn't work for me though. Is the link working for you now? |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:28:02 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm giving this a shot the next time I'm at the range. I probably won't be posting any results though
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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:44:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TaylorWSO:
pffft I use real quaters <a href="http://s42.photobucket.com/user/taylorwso/media/PICT2383.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/taylorwso/PICT2383.jpg</a> i love your threads thanks for coming back Meh, I shoot Mercury Dimes. 
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Posted: 1/20/2016 9:18:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Thanks Molon, going to try this one.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2016 10:20:17 AM EDT
[#28]
I know this is a "AR" thread, but I think I will break out the .308 bolt gun for this.
Thanks for posting. 
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Posted: 1/20/2016 11:54:28 AM EDT
[#29]
This looks like fun. I can't believe nobody has posted results yet
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2016 3:43:05 PM EDT
[#30]
You people must be rich or some shit like that, destroying perfectly good monies.
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Posted: 1/20/2016 5:05:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By castiel:
This looks like fun. I can't believe nobody has posted results yet Crappy weather.... I, for one, don't want the rain adversely effecting my efforts ! Trust me... this is hard to do. It is already tough enough getting 10 shots just where you want them ! Lol Gonna keep trying ! 
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Posted: 1/20/2016 6:23:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Crappy weather.... I, for one, don't want the rain adversely effecting my efforts ! Trust me... this is hard to do. It is already tough enough getting 10 shots just where you want them ! Lol Gonna keep trying ! https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11990524_1031040456916721_4854838376938523169_n.jpg?oh=6579b3a5fd14bf03e1791eb116106559&oe=5733FED8 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Originally Posted By castiel:
This looks like fun. I can't believe nobody has posted results yet Crappy weather.... I, for one, don't want the rain adversely effecting my efforts ! Trust me... this is hard to do. It is already tough enough getting 10 shots just where you want them ! Lol Gonna keep trying ! https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11990524_1031040456916721_4854838376938523169_n.jpg?oh=6579b3a5fd14bf03e1791eb116106559&oe=5733FED8 Better than I could do! It's been in the low 60s and absolutely gorgeous down here. If it's this nice for the weekend I'll see what I can do. I have a bunch of the federal 50gr varmint ammo that gets excellent reviews I need to try shooting
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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:30:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Crappy weather.... I, for one, don't want the rain adversely effecting my efforts ! Trust me... this is hard to do. It is already tough enough getting 10 shots just where you want them ! Lol Gonna keep trying ! https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11990524_1031040456916721_4854838376938523169_n.jpg?oh=6579b3a5fd14bf03e1791eb116106559&oe=5733FED8 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bfoosh06:
Originally Posted By castiel:
This looks like fun. I can't believe nobody has posted results yet Crappy weather.... I, for one, don't want the rain adversely effecting my efforts ! Trust me... this is hard to do. It is already tough enough getting 10 shots just where you want them ! Lol Gonna keep trying ! https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11990524_1031040456916721_4854838376938523169_n.jpg?oh=6579b3a5fd14bf03e1791eb116106559&oe=5733FED8 
Five out of 10 hits; you're off to a good start! ... |
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Posted: 1/20/2016 8:55:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mustb123]
[#34]
Waiting on the MBT trigger to show....so I'll have to make due with the ALG wanna be set up. Should be good weather tomorrow. Results (good or bad) will be posted. All I have are some hand loads, they are fairly accurate though.
So, I overestimated my ability to sight in the rifle. I had the scope and mount on another rifle last time out. I was also shooting 70's and went with 55's today. So I was down to 9 rounds left when I started targeting the quarters. I was still making adjustments as I shot at the quarters. Pending weather tomorrow, I'll run another handful of ammo and try again. But, I said I would post the results and here it is. 
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Posted: 1/21/2016 6:23:29 PM EDT
[#35]
I posted this pic once before in a precision thread, but it is totally appropriate to repost here.
I have one particular 24" AR that happens to be super precise and accurate. After I had it dialed in, I put it away, and at the next range trip, taped a quarter to the 100 yard target, and took the first cold shot. I did that on 9 more consecutive range trips, spanned about a year I guess, in summer and winter temps. One cold shot, put it away, no cleaning or anything. At some point I lost one of the quarters, but the other 9 are sitting in one of my drawers as a cool reminder. 
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Posted: 1/22/2016 12:00:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kuraki]
[#36]
That's a good shooting rifle. I understand the desire to catalog multiple cold bore shots, but I'm curious does it group well as it warms up or does the POI shift?
And I hope to do this Saturday with 2 or 3 different rifles weather permitting. By weather I mean wife. |
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SOM
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Posted: 1/22/2016 12:38:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Oh this sounds fun.
Is there any chance I can do it with an ordinary rifle (Bushmaster XM-E2S with 20" HBAR), nothing special ammo (PMC Gold 55 gr. .223 Rem), and a mediocre scope (Barska 4x)? Guess I'll find out! |
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Posted: 1/22/2016 4:37:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Bad weather today, maybe Monday will be nicer?
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Posted: 1/22/2016 6:36:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki:
I'm curious does it group well as it warms up or does the POI shift? This particular rifle is a consistent sub 3/4 MOA shooter, with the right ammo. It outshoots me, by a wide margin. Even warm, it doesn't wander. A buddy asked me if someone was holding my kid hostage as a shield, do I have a rifle that I would use, out of the case, that was minute of eyeball. It was my best shooter, so I decided to find out just how trustworthy it was. I have a couple of bolt guns that are equally precise and accurate, but that's the only semi-auto that qualified. Unfortunately, I dismantled it due to the unSAFE act, but someday I hope to re-mate that upper with it's lower, and in theory, it should still be GTG. |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 8:30:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mustb123:
But, I said I would post the results and here it is. http://i63.tinypic.com/14k9wsk.jpg An honest man! 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 12:15:54 AM EDT
[#41]
I was at the range today, 20* steady wind. Doing some load development.
Also ran some known sub moa loads, Today they were moa +. Weather, maybe? Me, most likely. Once the weather improves, months(I hope not!) I'll be working on this challenge. Thank you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 1:04:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Objekt:
Oh this sounds fun. Is there any chance I can do it with an ordinary rifle (Bushmaster XM-E2S with 20" HBAR), nothing special ammo (PMC Gold 55 gr. .223 Rem), and a mediocre scope (Barska 4x)? Guess I'll find out! That ammunition is going to be your limiting factor . . . 
.... |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 6:30:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Here's the best I could muster today. Mirage off my can was ridiculous. I need to get a cover. I'm pretty sure I pulled the double hit myself. Can't complain about the weather. 30 degrees and dead as could be.
6.5x55 Krieger barreled R700. Nightforce 3-15x56. Form 1 silencer. Front rest, rear squeeze bag. 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 7:29:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for posting your results. I hope try my hand at this next Saturday.
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Posted: 1/25/2016 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Here's the best I could muster today. Mirage off my can was ridiculous. I need to get a cover. I'm pretty sure I pulled the double hit myself. Can't complain about the weather. 30 degrees and dead as could be. 6.5x55 Krieger barreled R700. Nightforce 3-15x56. Form 1 silencer. Front rest, rear squeeze bag. http://i65.tinypic.com/96vtxs.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/27y6fco.jpg |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 1:05:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kuraki]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DesignatedMarksman:
Assuming you shot left to right, your cold bore is bitchin'. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DesignatedMarksman:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Here's the best I could muster today. Mirage off my can was ridiculous. I need to get a cover. I'm pretty sure I pulled the double hit myself. Can't complain about the weather. 30 degrees and dead as could be. 6.5x55 Krieger barreled R700. Nightforce 3-15x56. Form 1 silencer. Front rest, rear squeeze bag. http://i65.tinypic.com/96vtxs.jpg http://i67.tinypic.com/27y6fco.jpg I did. It usually is pretty good if not that good. One thing about this that makes it hard is how close the quarters are to each other. Even with my most premium glass on a well lit day at 15x, they muddy together a little bit especially with mirage. I think I could do better if it were 2 rows of 5. I tried this with my 22-250 and 10x Leupold that has a 1/4 MOA target dot as well. It shoots a .67 average over 25 rounds. But it came out even worse, and I think partly because I couldn't always be sure of my point of aim. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 10:41:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki:
I think I could do better if it were 2 rows of 5. Let me see what I can do about that. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 10:47:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Let me see what I can do about that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I think I could do better if it were 2 rows of 5. Let me see what I can do about that. I wasn't sure if that was part of the intended challenge or not. I can modify one. I was going to actually draw one up with 5 per row, but instead of quarters, neon green or orange MOA sized dots. Just to see if I'm full of it, or if the increased visibility helps. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 8:10:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: I wasn't sure if that was part of the intended challenge or not. I can modify one. I was going to actually draw one up with 5 per row, but instead of quarters, neon green or orange MOA sized dots. Just to see if I'm full of it, or if the increased visibility helps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuraki: Originally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By Kuraki: I think I could do better if it were 2 rows of 5. Let me see what I can do about that. I wasn't sure if that was part of the intended challenge or not. I can modify one. I was going to actually draw one up with 5 per row, but instead of quarters, neon green or orange MOA sized dots. Just to see if I'm full of it, or if the increased visibility helps. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 8:21:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Weather was much better - shooting results were lackluster.......hurry up MBT.
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