User Panel
Thanks for the report.
Have you broke one down and had a look at the powder? |
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Nice work again Molon, I just got 200 rounds yesterday to test out myself.
Some info from Hornady's Chief Ballistics Scientist, Dave Emary: "“We have done extensive testing of the new .223 Rem. load in ARs with barrels from 14½ inches to 24 inches,” said Emary. “The propellants are very progressive and burn out rapidly after peak pressure. The AR’s gas system was originally designed around a 62-grain bullet and about 26.5 to 27.0 grains of powder and is therefore within the design envelope of the system.” "The velocity gains in Superformance Varmint—in some cases they exceed standard offerings by more than 230 fps—are achieved through the use of highly progressively propellants loaded to fill the cases, yet not be compressed." http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/Superformance_in_Gas_Guns.pdf |
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Looks like the velocities are worthy.
I'm curious however about the rounds. If you go to their website they seem to have several iterations of the new Superformance in 223. They show both "Match" and "Varmint" However their varmint only shows Vmax bullets and only in 50 and 53 grs. Your report and Hornady box clearly show OTMs. At least if you use the ammunition search. I suppose their website could use some updating. It almost appears the box is labeled Varmint because it's 223 rather than the bullet type. |
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Looks excellent. Are they actually going to sell it to people?
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Quoted: Looks excellent. Are they actually going to sell it to people? It's listed as varmint ammo, not LEO ammo - I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. That stuff is scooting along at 2900fps - it'll definitely ruin your day. |
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Nice writeup as usual!
I am curious to see how this might perform with shorter barrels and both mid-length and carbine length gas systems... |
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Quoted: I know a lot of two legged varmints, gonna have to pick some of this stuff up. Quoted: Looks excellent. Are they actually going to sell it to people? It's listed as varmint ammo, not LEO ammo - I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. That stuff is scooting along at 2900fps - it'll definitely ruin your day. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks excellent. Are they actually going to sell it to people? It's listed as varmint ammo, not LEO ammo - I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. That stuff is scooting along at 2900fps - it'll definitely ruin your day. Yeah I was at that velocity. Curious what it runs out of a 16" tube. Now if I could just remember the differences between the T1 and T2 projectiles... |
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Quoted:
Now if I could just remember the differences between the T1 and T2 projectiles... Molon's pic is above with the T1, T1C, and the T2. The ogive is different on the T2. |
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IIRC the T1 is basically what they sell as a component? Or maybe it's what comes in the 75gr TAP FPD. The T2 is what they use in the 5.56 TAP. I think. Could be wrong.
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Quoted:
IIRC the T1 is basically what they sell as a component? Or maybe it's what comes in the 75gr TAP FPD. The T2 is what they use in the 5.56 TAP. I think. Could be wrong. You got it. The 'T1' is available as a component, it also appears in every 75 bthp Hornady load, except the 5.56 TAP (which uses the T2 - not available as a component). |
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Quoted:
Nice work again Molon, I just got 200 rounds yesterday to test out myself. Some info from Hornady's Chief Ballistics Scientist, Dave Emary: "“We have done extensive testing of the new .223 Rem. load in ARs with barrels from 14½ inches to 24 inches,” said Emary. “The propellants are very progressive and burn out rapidly after peak pressure. The AR’s gas system was originally designed around a 62-grain bullet and about 26.5 to 27.0 grains of powder and is therefore within the design envelope of the system.” "The velocity gains in Superformance Varmint—in some cases they exceed standard offerings by more than 230 fps—are achieved through the use of highly progressively propellants loaded to fill the cases, yet not be compressed." http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/Superformance_in_Gas_Guns.pdf Thanks for the link, SkyPup. VERY interested in more performance data out of a 14.5" 1/7 barrel (Molon? ). Regardless, I'm probably picking some up and giving it a try. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Now if I could just remember the differences between the T1 and T2 projectiles... Molon's pic is above with the T1, T1C, and the T2. The ogive is different on the T2. Well, I see the photo, what I am trying to recall are the implications of the different designs. |
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The different ogive on the T2 is supposed to promote better feeding on M4 feedramps, IIRC.
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Closing in on the 6.8spc's prices, may as well make the jump.
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Bought a few boxes of the stuff! midway has it instock
promo code 11010 I`ll see how it compares to my BH75 & MK262 etc. UPDATE WARNING!!! Midway sent me 5 boxes of Superformance 53gr 223rem ( NOT 5.56mm 75gr RRRRrrrrr!)) So you might call in your orders. BTW The 53gr superformance seems to be a compressed load! The case is full compared to 53gr Match w/c |
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OP, thanks for your work.....in on group purchase as availability increases......
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Apparently this ammo is going to provide significant muzzle velocity increases across the board in all barrel lengths.
Will be great to get ahold of the SuperPerformance powder for reloading when it becomes available next year..... |
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Molon,
Thank you for the results. Your work is a true asset to all AR-15 owners. Are you aware of any reliable data concerning the minimum upset velocity for the T1 projectile? It would be interesting to see what increase in effective range the Superformance rounds offer to 16 and 20 inch barrels. |
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This looks like it should perform nice at extended ranges. High BC and extra "umph" to boot.
I think I read the BC as being .395, which gives me about 380 ft-lbs of energy at 700 yds, plenty to smack steel plates |
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I'd like to see how these do thru 12.5 & 11.5 sbr's. If anyone has scientific data that'd be nice. Otherwise I'll have to go out and chrono some myself but It wont be very "scientific"
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Quoted:
Thanks for the report. Have you broke one down and had a look at the powder? Yes. |
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Quoted:
The different ogive on the T2 is supposed to promote better feeding on M4 feedramps, IIRC. You are correct. Some time ago, I asked Dave Emary about the redesigned ogive on the T2 bullet. Here was his reply: “We made the ogive radius shorter, makes the ogive a little fatter, on the TAP load because testing showed it fed better in the M16/AR. The sharper pointed match bullet would occasionally hang up between the feed ramp cuts in the barrel sleeve on some guns.” |
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Quoted:
Molon, Thank you for the results. Your work is a true asset to all AR-15 owners. Are you aware of any reliable data concerning the minimum upset velocity for the T1 projectile? It would be interesting to see what increase in effective range the Superformance rounds offer to 16 and 20 inch barrels. 2250 fps for a conservative, reliable fragmentation threshold. |
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That velocity is well, AWSOME.
I will be buying some of that powder to try to get milspec or faster velocites on my SS109 reloads. |
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Molon again great data. I do have the concern of the varmint moniker. This usually means light thin jacket. Is this the case of the new bullet or is it simply a way around marketing it as a LEO only round?
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Quoted:
Molon again great data. I do have the concern of the varmint moniker. This usually means light thin jacket. Is this the case of the new bullet or is it simply a way around marketing it as a LEO only round? Based on the accuracy snapshot, I'm thinking someone at Hornady thought "Well shit, we obviously can't call it Match ammo...how about Varmint?". And there's nothing to "get around" as far as the LEO-only thing. There's no law or anything that makes Hornady market a round as LEO-only based on bullet construction, they can call them whatever they want. It uses the same bullet as Hornady Match ammo. |
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Varmint makes sense. Would like to hear the facts from Hornady on that one. As for the LEO part I was simply speaking from a marketing standpoint. As a lot of marketing departments learned in the 80's and 90's the LEO only part usually hurts sales and is more so what the manufacturer will sell and to whom more so than any law.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Molon again great data. I do have the concern of the varmint moniker. This usually means light thin jacket. Is this the case of the new bullet or is it simply a way around marketing it as a LEO only round? Based on the accuracy snapshot, I'm thinking someone at Hornady thought "Well shit, we obviously can't call it Match ammo...how about Varmint?". And there's nothing to "get around" as far as the LEO-only thing. There's no law or anything that makes Hornady market a round as LEO-only based on bullet construction, they can call them whatever they want. It uses the same bullet as Hornady Match ammo. Remember thats not a "match" barrel molon used either, while im not expected much better. It appears that they went for velocity and ignored accurracy. |
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Very happy with the velocity but the accuracy makes me want to puke.
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Yikes! I wonder how many folks ordered as much as they could get in the cart yesterday and wish they could unclick that "buy it now" button.
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I've got a clip loaded with the SuperPerformance ammo to take down to the lower 40 where the hogs have been rooting up and eating the freshly dropped oak acorns, I'm sure it is accurate enough for another BBQ...
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Quoted:
Here is some more accuracy data for comparison: 1) Sig 556 Classic SWAT (16" barrel, 1 in 7" twist), Nightforce 1-4x24 NXS, Harris bipod/LaRue QD mount, rear bag 2) Sig 556 DMR (21" barrel, 1 in 10" twist), Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS, Harris bipod/LaRue QD mount, Accushot Monopod (rear) Conditions Temp = 60-65 °F, Wind = 2-4 mph from 8:00 direction, Humidity = 49%, Bar. Pressure = 29.90 S Ten shot groups. http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy59/gstaylorg/TableIII.jpg I'll just consider that to be a place saver for when you have content to post - Eric |
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Over 3 MOA from a solidly benched gun is not something Hornady should be OK with. Yes, velocity is nice but not when an extra 100 or 200 fps trashes accuracy.
ETA - After looking at Molon's review of Hornady Tap & Match ammo the .223 TAP & match averaged 1.03". I'll pass on something that triples group size. I need all the help I can get! |
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I will reserve judgment until i get some into my SPR's at the longer ranges. Having said that I too will take the accuracey of my handloads and Blackhills ammo over an additional 100 fps or so.
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Quoted:
Over 3 MOA from a solidly benched gun is not something Hornady should be OK with. Yes, velocity is nice but not when an extra 100 or 200 fps trashes accuracy. ETA - After looking at Molon's review of Hornady Tap & Match ammo the .223 TAP & match averaged 1.03". I'll pass on something that triples group size. I need all the help I can get! Your comparing a $200 milspec barrel to one of the best match grade stainless barrels. |
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The 3" group size with a nato chambered, free floated rifle is ~2x larger than 8126N. I'll continue to use 8126N.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is some more accuracy data for comparison: 1) Sig 556 Classic SWAT (16" barrel, 1 in 7" twist), Nightforce 1-4x24 NXS, Harris bipod/LaRue QD mount, rear bag 2) Sig 556 DMR (21" barrel, 1 in 10" twist), Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS, Harris bipod/LaRue QD mount, Accushot Monopod (rear) Conditions Temp = 60-65 °F, Wind = 2-4 mph from 8:00 direction, Humidity = 49%, Bar. Pressure = 29.90 S Ten shot groups. http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy59/gstaylorg/TableIII.jpg I'll just consider that to be a place saver for when you have content to post - Eric Here’s some content for you. Not one single straight-shooter that I know has been able to shoot consistent 10-shot groups smaller than 3 MOA with the 5.56 NATO Superformance ammunition from a NATO chambered, semi-automatic rifle. As an example of what other members are actually getting with this ammunition, here are some groups from Belmont31R fired from 100 yards. Yet, SkyPup’s SIG-boy fired a 1.06” 10-shot group from 100 yards with this ammunition USING A 1:10” TWIST BARREL THAT ISN’T EVEN CAPABLE OF ADEQUATELY STABILIZING THE HORNADY 75 GRAIN BTHP BULLET???!!! Maybe if there was an effort here to remove the fraudulent BS being reposted here from another website, you wouldn’t have to worry about removing this . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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I'd be surprised if a 1:10" barrel could even keep these on the paper. I don't believe it either.
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I don't buy it either, especially not out of a 1/10 barrel. However, a "BS" flag with no other content is for GD, not here. A discussion about whether the numbers are valid is something else.
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