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Posted: 5/12/2020 1:58:46 PM EDT
target practice using .223 and/or 5.56 with my Wylde-barreled AR. I pulled the trigger, heard the shot and my support hand felt like it had just been hit with a hammer.

it was the last round in the magazine - the mag exploded, the action was jammed and my hand hurt like hell. I finally got the bolt released along with a piece of the brass jammed into the ejector. as you can see the ejector is bent, the bullet case is blown out and I don't know what or how much microscopic damage may be present to the chamber.

can someone tell me how this happened? I'd like to avoid another incident like this. I feel lucky that the concussion went down and out of the magazine rather than any other direction as somebody else could have been injured.

I am trying to post a picture for reference but I've never had much luck attaching pictures on this forum.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UNK2umq43Cbm5jGa6
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:02:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 2:02:57 PM EDT by fxntime]
Ammo used?

Please don't say Frontier.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:04:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fxntime:
Ammo used?

Please don't say­ Frontier.
View Quote


Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:08:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fxntime:
Ammo used?

Please don't say­ Frontier.
View Quote

60/40 split.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:10:35 PM EDT
Here's your pic:

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In for ammo manufacturer.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:16:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chubbs878:

I don't know what or how much microscopic damage may be present to the chamber.

View Quote


In my opinion everything subjected to that much overpressure is fucked! Don't re-use the barrel or the bolt no matter how good they look.

Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:47:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 2:50:21 PM EDT by chubbs878]
that is what we were debating. I tend to lean toward the idea that some stress factures must exist in that chamber. but my compadre believes all of the pressure went out of the magazine.

now, a lot of pressure did exit the magazine. it resembled something of a banana peel.

and no, I wasn't shooting Frontier ammo. it was either American Eagle or FedArms "range grade" - the piece of the brass with headstamp is gone so I don't know if I will be able to determine with certainty which ammo this is.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:51:59 PM EDT
Out of battery?
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:54:41 PM EDT
I hope your hand is alright OP.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:57:35 PM EDT
this weapon tends to have issues with bolt going into battery so I've been going back & forth with different combinations of springs & buffers. and I have some cheap midway steel mags that will put too much friction on the round and keep the bolt from going home - I don't use those any more

many times I've had to take a board and bump the C/H down to unlock the bolt carrier. but I've never had a round go off when the bolt was out of battery. how does that even happen?
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:57:55 PM EDT
Googled Fedarms ammo?
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 2:59:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By sgthoskin­s:
I hope your hand is alright OP.
View Quote


appreciate the concern. its nothing major. I just get the creeps thinking of ways that it could have gone worse.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:02:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 3:36:55 PM EDT by HHenderson]
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:
this weapon tends to have issues w­ith bolt going into battery so I've been goin­g back & forth with different combinations of springs­ & buffers. and I have some cheap midway steel mags that­ will put too much friction on the round and ­keep the bolt from going home - I don't use those any more

many times­ I've had to take a board and bump the C/H down to unlock the bolt carrier. but I've never had a round go off when the b­olt was out of battery. how does that even happen?
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Round seats in bolt, but neither fully seat in chamber, either tolerance stacking allows just enough room to drop hammer anyway or somehow firing pin has enough inertia on it's own.

Either way, it looks like out of battery to me. Looks like the same place unsupported .40 always kabooms for example.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:02:49 PM EDT
In for gun manufacturer or parts used....
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:02:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder­1971:
Googled Fedarms ammo?
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I really haven't. but I noticed that 500 rounds of 5.56 looked pitiful compared to the 500 rounds of 7.62/308 that I had purchased a few months earlier.

the 5.56 range grade they sent me are pretty rough. some don't have primers at all. I think it was short on the count. I was satisfied with the 308 range grade, reason I went ahead & got the 5.56 range grade later on. but I'm not for sure if the FedArm round is the munition in question
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:05:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By HHenderso­n:

Looks like the same place unsu­pported .40 always kabooms for example.
View Quote


please explain. I don't understand this
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:11:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:


I really haven't. but I noticed that 500 rounds of 5.56 looked pitiful compared to the 500 rounds ­of 7.62/308 that I had purchased a few months earlier. 

the 5.56 range grade they sent me are pretty rough. some don't have primers at all. I think it was short on the count. I was satisfied with the 308 range grade, re­ason I went ahead & got the 5.56 range grade later on. but I'm not for sure if the FedArm round is ­the munition in question
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Originally Posted By chubbs87­8:
Originally Posted By Tigwelde­r1971:
Googled Fedarms ammo?


I really haven't. but I noticed that 500 rounds of 5.56 looked pitiful compared to the 500 rounds ­of 7.62/308 that I had purchased a few months earlier. 

the 5.56 range grade they sent me are pretty rough. some don't have primers at all. I think it was short on the count. I was satisfied with the 308 range grade, re­ason I went ahead & got the 5.56 range grade later on. but I'm not for sure if the FedArm round is ­the munition in question


If I bought reloaded ammo made so poorly that it looked like crap and was missing primers, I'd send it back, not shoot it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:28:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 3:28:35 PM EDT by chubbs878]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fxntime:


If I bought reloaded ammo ­made so poorly that it looked like crap and w­as missing primers, I'd send it back, not sho­ot it.
View Quote


fair enough. but $130 shipped for 500 rounds... I wasn't expecting 'Federal' or anything.

next time I will probably go a step UP in their line of branding. if they ever get back to manufacturing. they stopped the production lines before the china virus pandemic
IIRC, a sales rep replied to my email that their factory was going through an upgrade.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:34:29 PM EDT
Blem
Zero QC
Factory disclaimer
Reloaded
Dirt cheap


Recipe for catastrophic failure.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:37:25 PM EDT
Case head failure due to excessive pressure.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:39:26 PM EDT
Front fell off.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:40:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigHunt:
 

In my opinion everything ­subjected to that much overpressure is fucked­! Don't re-use the barrel or the bolt no matter how good­ they look.

View Quote


This, and +1 for ammo as the cause.

I would contact whoever the manufacturer is immediately with pics and as much detail written as possible.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 3:46:45 PM EDT by HHenderson]
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:


please explain. I don't understand this
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Originally Posted By chubbs87­8:
Originally Posted By HHenders­on:

Looks like the same place unsu­pported .40 always kabooms for example.


please explain. I don't understand this

https://www.google.com/search?q=.40+kaboom&client=ms-android-att-us-revc&source=android-browser&prmd=simvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjxoICOia_pAhWVqp4KHYDrAJEQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=674&bih=312#imgrc=iEh-3aRnE1ZApM

Originally Posted By BellaireShootingRnge
The chambers are unsupported, and after a few firings brass cases are too stressed to safely be reloaded. Supported chambers will generally be able to fire cases more times without case ruptures like this.

So, it isn't that the ammo is bad, it's just the risk you run shooting reloads through Gen 1-4 Glocks. The Gen 5 guns have supported chambers, so it won't be as big an issue with Gen 5 as it was previous.

Supported vs unsupported chamber You can see the chamber supports more of the case on the "Supported" barrel vs the "unsupported" one. Unsupported chambers will have a more gradual feed ramp resulting in less feeding issues, but suffer the downside of sometimes blowing out cases.





Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:42:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:


fair enough. but $130 shipped for 500 rounds... I wasn't expecting 'Federal' or anything. 

next time I will probably go a step ­UP in their line of branding. if they ever get back to manufacturing. they stopped the production lines before the­ china virus pandemic
IIRC, a sales rep re­plied to my email that their factory was goin­g through an upgrade.
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Originally Posted By chubbs87­8:
Originally Posted By fxntime:


If I bought reloaded ammo ­made so poorly that it looked like crap and w­as missing primers, I'd send it back, not sho­ot it.


fair enough. but $130 shipped for 500 rounds... I wasn't expecting 'Federal' or anything. 

next time I will probably go a step ­UP in their line of branding. if they ever get back to manufacturing. they stopped the production lines before the­ china virus pandemic
IIRC, a sales rep re­plied to my email that their factory was goin­g through an upgrade.


So how much did that sale price save you now after your AR Kaboomed?

While Frontier is pretty universally loathed here, many name brand [NOT Frontier] new ammo manufacturers will stand behind their ammo if it fails and replace your rifle if the ammo is shown to be the issue.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:51:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:53:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fxntime:


So how much did that sale ­price save you now after your AR Kaboomed? 

While Frontier is pretty universally­ loathed here, many name brand [NOT Frontier]­ new ammo manufacturers will stand behind the­ir ammo if it fails and replace your rifle if­ the ammo is shown to be the issue.
View Quote


well hopefully this case passes for federal American Eagle
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 3:54:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GHOS7:


This, and +1 for ammo as t­he cause. 

I would contact whoever the manufact­urer is immediately with pics and as much det­ail written as possible.
View Quote


copy that
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 4:02:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GHOS7:


This, and +1 for ammo as t­he cause. 

I would contact whoever the manufact­urer is immediately with pics and as much det­ail written as possible.
View Quote


https://photos.app.goo.gl/V8xJ8xuE2KpMVtBDA

I can't tell whose case this is
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 4:08:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:


https://photos.app.goo.gl/V8xJ8xuE2KpMVtBDA

I can't tell whose c­ase this is
View Quote

Your pic

Link Posted: 5/12/2020 4:46:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tigwelder­1971:
Blem
Zero QC
Factory disclai­mer 
Reloaded
Dirt cheap 


Re­cipe for catastrophic failure.
View Quote


Looked it up...worse policy than uncle Bubbas reloads.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 4:57:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 6:20:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 6:22:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DanaHille­n:

The pics are upside down.
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I'm sure people can figure out it makes the picture easier, but thank you for pointing it out just in case.
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 8:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2020 8:21:45 PM EDT by ThatGuy01]
Head stamp looks like an "LC" to me - that would be the American Eagle stuff, out of Lake City, right?
Link Posted: 5/12/2020 11:53:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:
fair enough. but $130 shipped for 500 rounds... 
View Quote

How is that cost equation working out now, with a KABOOM'ED rifle and all that potential for injury...?  

Link Posted: 5/13/2020 4:42:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:
Head stamp looks like an "LC" to m­e - that would be the American Eagle stuff, out ­of Lake City, right?
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At the 10 o'clock, yep that's definitely a stamp. Good eye.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 5:14:33 AM EDT
I keep reading these threads and have about 4000 rounds of Frontier...

I had a Glock 23 in .40 kaboom with factory Federal and it was not a fun day.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 6:25:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy01:
Head stamp looks like an "LC" to m­e - that would be the American Eagle stuff, out ­of Lake City, right?
View Quote


...or an LC case reloaded by Fedarms.  With any range collected case possible with the Fedarms ammo, I don’t see the head stamp providing much (valuable) information.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 6:32:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:


...or an LC case reloaded by Fedarms.  With any range collected case possible with­ the Fedarms ammo, I don’t see the head stamp­ providing much (valuable) information.
View Quote

Link Posted: 5/13/2020 7:05:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2020 7:06:03 AM EDT by DC2FA5]
OP, depending on how tight the .223Wylde chamber is, and how well you maintained it, that could be a piece to the rounds not seating fully in the chamber. I’ve seen a time or two .223 Wylde chambers get so gunked up that they get too tight.

Wylde isn’t as forgiving as 5.56.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 9:06:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By chubbs878:
it was either American Eagle or Fe­dArms "range grade" - the piece of the brass with headstamp is gon­e so I don't know if I will be able to determ­ine with certainty which ammo this is.
View Quote


I'm betting it was the FedArms ammo.  About 5 years ago I bought a case of 1000 9mm rounds from FedArms.  I had multiple squib loads from that case.  I contacted them about it, but they wouldn't do anything to rectify the situation.  
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 10:57:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:


...or an LC case reloaded by Fedarms.  With any range collected case possible with­ the Fedarms ammo, I don’t see the head stamp­ providing much (valuable) information.
View Quote


Exactly. From what it sounds like, the Fedarms stuff is probably a mish mosh of collected/purchased cases. Unfortunately for you OP, this may well be a lesson learned in using cheap reloaded ammo...
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 11:05:53 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:


...or an LC case reloaded by Fedarms.  With any range collected case possible with­ the Fedarms ammo, I don’t see the head stamp­ providing much (valuable) information.
View Quote


Which may be why FedArms does that. Tougher to prove it was their ammo that kaboomed.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 11:23:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DontBuryM­e:


Exactly. From what it sounds like, the Fedarms stuff ­is probably a mish mosh of collected/purchased cases. Unfortunately for you OP, this may well be a­ lesson learned in using cheap reloaded ammo...
View Quote


INDEED. I'm shopping for a barrel in the EE listings
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 11:29:00 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DC2FA5:
OP, depending on how tight the .223Wylde chamber is, and how well you maintai­ned it, that could be a piece to the rounds n­ot seating fully in the chamber. I’ve seen a time or two .223 Wylde chambers get so gunked up that they­ get too tight. 

Wylde isn’t as forgiving as 5.56.
View Quote


this weapon stays spotless. I have never put more than 100 rounds at a time through it. and after every or every-other range session I will hit the chamber with CLP, and run a bore snake through it. I have the 2-piece for all of my rifles where you pull the brush through first, then you pull the rope through. its pretty quick and simple so it gets done just about every time I put rounds through the barrel. I also take a few Q-TIPS to the chamber because I will see flakes of copper and other debris. I run my SemiAuto rifles clean & wet.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 11:47:59 AM EDT
Glad to hear you are okay.

Looking at the picture, it's indicative of a case rupture caused by either weak brass or really long headspace (where the case stretches to fill the chamber and eventually ruptures). That isn't anything to do with your rifle, but rather the remanf ammo. You have no way to know how many times that particular brass was fired. It probably came from a range and there's no way to tell how many times that has been fired prior to going to the remanf place. It could have been someone else's reloads that they decided they shot enough of.

In every one of these situations, it sounds like it's either one of two things: 1) using remanf, or 2) using reloads. I only ever seen a handful of factory loaded and in most of those cases seem to be operator error such as squib loads or otherwise.

Lesson here is to use high quality ammo. High quality doesn't necessarily mean higher price. You can buy all sorts of wonderful cheap ammo out there like Wolf or Tulammo and they do a lot better.

Link Posted: 5/13/2020 11:48:48 AM EDT
The pressure signs on the case head indicate a severe overpressure event of some kind. It's virtually certain that one of two things happened.

Either you had a squib load that you didn't notice that left a bullet stuck in the bore, either past the gas port (kinda low possibility) or you manually charged another cartridge, and then fired another round behind it....

Or that you just had a seriously overcharged round of ammo.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 6:32:46 PM EDT
Cheap reloads. Glad you are OK.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 6:47:24 PM EDT
Could have been a squib load and the next round would cause the gun to explode.

Could have a double charge of gun powder.

Could have had an out of battery discharge

But yeah being factory ammo I would contact the ammo manufacturer and try to get reimbursed for the gun.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 7:40:56 PM EDT
I’d love to see how an OOB discharge happens in an AR.
Link Posted: 5/13/2020 8:09:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2020 8:10:46 PM EDT by j3_]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ziariflem­an:
I’d love to see how an OOB dischar­ge happens in an AR.
View Quote

Have only seen one posted years ago on the site. Had a picture of the bolt and there was a piece of what looked like a primer stuck to the face that had hit the new round primer and set it off.
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