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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:

The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12.  

Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL")

Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR)

Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities.

The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle.

Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment.

The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5).  

Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle"

The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more.  

In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04.  

In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands.
View Quote

* * * * * * * * * *

The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention!

Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW.

The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution.

- Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets]

- Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis)

LOWER
Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
  • Lower: M16A1 pattern [Nodak Spud NDSA1 or 80% re-profiled/finished/engraved]
  • Trigger: Knight's 2-Stage Full Auto Match Trigger or Geissele SSF [KAC semi-auto Match or Geissele SSA/SSA-E]
  • Grip: A1, A2, ERGO Original
  • Stock: Originally issued with A1 stocks, both solid D and trapdoor E types; as A1 stocks dwindled, A2 were used; ModH rifles rebuilt with Ace SOCOM stocks
  • Small parts: Standard M16A1 parts

UPPER
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other.


Early SPR/Mod0
  • Upper: Colt, Diemaco, or Armalite marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen I carbon fiber free-float Handguard, rifle length (identified by button-head screws and one vent hole near barrel nut on lower half; no heat shields)
  • A.R.M.S. #38 SPR MOD Sleeve (either the PEQ version or with uneven spacing on the front  but not the full 1913 railed version)
  • FSB: PRi early folding front sight base and gas manifold, set-screw, with elevation wheel
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Rear iron sight: A.R.M.S. #40
  • Scope rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings, #22 Tactical Ring Cap and #22 Tactical Ring Rail (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle (use .308 turret) [Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x40 LR, M3 turrets, Illuminated Mil-Dot reticle]
  • Bipod: Versa-Pod with A.R.M.S. #42, or a Harris with A.R.M.S. #32 (Versa-Pod far inferior to Harris)
Late Mod0
  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16.
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen III carbon fiber free-float handguard, rifle length
  • A.R.M.S. #38 SPR-PEQ-2-3 Sleeve
  • FSB: PRi folding FSB, set-screw, .750 (original production had PRi's full address engraved on sight tower; those engraved with "PRi USA" are later manufacture)
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Rear iron sight: A.R.M.S. #40
  • Scope Rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold 3-9x36mm TS-30, Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle
  • Bipod: Harris with either A.R.M.S. #32 or KAC RAS bipod adapter
SPR/A, SPR/B, Mod1
  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Douglas 416r SS, 18" SPR contour, 1/7 twist, flats milled for PRi FSB (Compass Lake, Centurion Arms, High Caliber Sales, and PRi can all supply barrels that meet the appropriate spec minus FSB flats)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Knight's Armament M4 Match FF RAS, rifle length (now called the SR15/16 Match FF RAS)
  • Gas block: NSWC Crane pattern (Badger Ordnance parkerized/NSN version is correct, has open front of gas tube hole)
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle device: OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Scope rings: A.R.M.S. #22 High rings (A.R.M.S. rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.)
  • Optic: Leupold Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle or NightForce 2.5-10x24 (optionally with NightForce rings)
  • Bipod: Harris with KAC RAS bipod adapter (BRM-S, A.R.M.S. #32 could still optionally be used)

ModH, Mod "Holland"

  • Upper: Colt or Diemaco marked, flat top, M4 feed-ramps
  • Barrel: Noveske 16" Recon, mid-length gas system, profiled for OPS Inc. 12th Model brake/collar (will require aftermarket contouring of most barrels)
  • BCG: Colt M-16
  • Handguard: Precision Reflex Gen III carbon fiber free-float handguard, FDE, rifle length
  • Charging handle: PRi Gas Buster M-84 with military latch
  • Muzzle Device: OPS. Inc. 12th Model brake/collar, and 12th Model suppressor [Allen Engineering AEM5 and brake/collar]
  • Scope Rings: A.R.M.S. #22 Medium rings on PRi recce rail (rings should not include "lever-stop" hump as produced later by A.R.M.S.) or LaRue LT-104 SPR mount
  • Optic: Leupold 3-9x36mm TS-30, Mk4 MR/T 2.5-8x36mm TS-30A2, M2 turrets with Mk262 BDC, illuminated TMR reticle, Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle (use .308 turret) [Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x40mm LR, M3 turrets, illuminated Mil-Dot reticle]; S&B Short-Dot
  • Bipod: Harris with either A.R.M.S. #32 or KAC RAS bipod adapter
  • Iron sights: (apparently PRI were supplied but never used)

In the Wild
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen:

Early SPR/Mod0:
Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on.

Mod1:
One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s.

ModH:
The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection.


Parts Alternatives for Clone Building
Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone.

Barrel:
Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone.

Optics & Rings:
In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings.

A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve:
The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds.

FSB:
While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves.

Suppressor, Brake/Collar:
Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes.

As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all.


* * * * * * * * * *

Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers
Bravo Company Manufacturing
High Caliber Sales
Precision Reflex Inc.


Specific Mk12 Tech
Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136
KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137
Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357
Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449
tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792


* * * * * * * * * *

As of 16 May 2024, Ron Allen is still making custom parts for his suppressors:
Originally Posted By k31user:

I still make custom stuff.
1-530-742-3248
[email protected]

RonA
View Quote

* * * * * * * * * *


Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 2/12/2018 7:26:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Irish_11:
Joined the club this weekend. I know I will catch flak for the upper and lower (Aero) but I don't care. Thanks to the pages and pages of info and motivation. It took me a while to source deals on some of the parts, but it has been a fun build.

https://i.imgur.com/mVquRar.jpg

Aero Upper
Aero M16a4 Lower
Aero Standard LPK w/a2 grip
Ballistic Advantage 556 Performance Series 18 SPR Barrel (Ops Inc 12 cut)
Ops Inc 12 Group Brake and Long Collar
Low Profile Gas Block
KAC FF RAS
A2 Stock
Harris 6-9 MBRMS Bipod

I still need:
Optics
Mount/Rings (thinking the LaRue Lt-104
A2 stock sling adaptor and front sling mount
View Quote
Looks like short collar to me
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 7:27:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KOBK:
Good price on the barrel but it doesn't look like it is set up correctly for the ops collar and brake.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KOBK:
Originally Posted By lonewolfgun:
Mk12 profiled barrels on sale at Brownells.

Mk12 profiled barrels on sale.
Good price on the barrel but it doesn't look like it is set up correctly for the ops collar and brake.
I agree.  Looks like the collar step is too far back towards gas port.  Ask for measurements from the thread shoulder before you buy
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 7:31:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By daojag:

Nice.  The A2 stock just looks huge to me now after putting an A1 (refurbished, not a FA or Brownells shell) on mine .   After taking it on the road a few weeks ago though, the SOPMOD is really growing on me for portability.

Current:
https://i.imgur.com/NDjsi7C.jpg

Early 2017:
https://i.imgur.com/7h8CzYV.jpg
View Quote
Damn that looks sexy. I dig it black, I'd leave it but that's me. I came across one of those Knights top rails with integrated rear buis at a gun show for $150...but didn't know what it would be clone correct on so I didn't get it
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 7:58:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chenault] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By daojag:

Nice.  The A2 stock just looks huge to me now after putting an A1 (refurbished, not a FA or Brownells shell) on mine .   After taking it on the road a few weeks ago though, the SOPMOD is really growing on me for portability.

Current:
https://i.imgur.com/NDjsi7C.jpg

Early 2017:.
https://i.imgur.com/7h8CzYV.jpg
View Quote
Of all the MK12 options that's my favorite look.  Well done.  The sopmod doesn't help that much.
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 8:02:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eMc9001:

Look's good though. ETA pic thread, ol' girl on the new gun bench. Still haven't painted the damn scope because of my indecisiveness on mounts.

https://i.imgur.com/DrJ5SHG.jpg
View Quote
That is just frickin' badass
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 9:36:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I think I’m gonna quit fighting it and give in to the Mod 0 clone game. It’s just so sexy and classic. Already having something close to an A1 style lower helps. I have a feeling this is gonna be an expensive ride.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 12:03:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
I think I’m gonna quit fighting it and give in to the Mod 0 clone game. It’s just so sexy and classic. Already having something close to an A1 style lower helps. I have a feeling this is gonna be an expensive ride.
View Quote
Do it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 7:03:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
I think I’m gonna quit fighting it and give in to the Mod 0 clone game. It’s just so sexy and classic. Already having something close to an A1 style lower helps. I have a feeling this is gonna be an expensive ride.
View Quote
I was the same way, then I built one.  Now I have it stripped down to be a holland and I'm sitting here debating selling all of the mod 0 parts for another FF ras rail.  The only thing stopping me is the fear that PRI goes tits up and the parts sky rocket in cost.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 10:37:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Just placed the order for a Ballistic Advantage 18" SPR bball. Monmouth Reloading is having a sale. I think 25% off BA barrels.

On another note, how hard is it too find the collar and muzzle brake. I'm guessing that and the forearm might be the hardest part to find. But I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 10:46:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
Just placed the order for a Ballistic Advantage 18" SPR bball. Monmouth Reloading is having a sale. I think 25% off BA barrels.

On another note, how hard is it too find the collar and muzzle brake. I'm guessing that and the forearm might be the hardest part to find. But I could be wrong.
View Quote
Those are the easy parts, you'll see.  Brake/collar, https://adcofirearms.com and the forearm at http://www.precisionreflex.com
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 10:54:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Poor guy.  First time I ever saw the top rail backordered lol
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 12:43:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Irish_11] [#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By daojag:

Nice.  The A2 stock just looks huge to me now after putting an A1 (refurbished, not a FA or Brownells shell) on mine .   After taking it on the road a few weeks ago though, the SOPMOD is really growing on me for portability.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By daojag:

Nice.  The A2 stock just looks huge to me now after putting an A1 (refurbished, not a FA or Brownells shell) on mine .   After taking it on the road a few weeks ago though, the SOPMOD is really growing on me for portability.
That's a nice looking setup! My friend is building one with a SOPMOD right now as well. I might have to try it out. I have long arms so the a2 feels pretty good, but I hear you on the portability.

Originally Posted By bboehme:

Looks like short collar to me
Humm, you might be right. I'll have to measure it. I can always hunt down the correct one.

Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
Just placed the order for a Ballistic Advantage 18" SPR bball. Monmouth Reloading is having a sale. I think 25% off BA barrels.

On another note, how hard is it too find the collar and muzzle brake. I'm guessing that and the forearm might be the hardest part to find. But I could be wrong.
That's where I picked up my barrel as well. It was a good deal. For the brake: https://adcofirearms.com/products/manufacturer/allen-engineering/mountscollars/ For the rail PRI, Brownells, or check the EE on here. They come up from time to time.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 1:04:56 PM EDT
[#13]
So what're the hardest part to find?
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 1:46:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
View Quote
For a Mod 1, the handguard.  They are still in production, but are only released in 2-3 batches per year.  If you don't snag one up then, then you have to maintain vigilance on the EE (or just post a WTB ad).

Reproduction Mod 0 parts are more-or-less available.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 1:52:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Well then I'm in like Flynn. I gotsta have that Mod 0 goodness.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 2:29:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
View Quote
In my experience, the hardest parts to find are -

Mod 0:
Original Mod 0 parts (most settle for retro reproductions) - front sight, hand guard, Swan sleeve

Mod 1:
Mod 1 Hand guard

Mod H:
Correct Gen 3 ACE SOCOM stock

Common:
Original KAC trigger (most settle for the Geissele)
Original optics (most settle for re-releases)
Original optic rings/mounts (most machine the new rings down)
Certain parts of the Eagle sling kit (KAC mount, sling silencer straps)
The cash to buy a registered receiver and a spouse that will let you spend it
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 2:53:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
View Quote
Actual ARMS #38 sleeves. #38-PEQ-2-3 are hard enough to find, and #38 SPR-MOD or PEQ-2 versions are even harder. You can build a nice Mod 0 using PRI's copy of the #38 sleeves but if you're really trying to get the rifle to be correct expect to pay $400+, or modify an Airsoft #38 sleeve.

It all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. If you're talking about going balls out museum replica level, the tough parts are the #38 sleeve, a Colt AF forge marked upper, and some #22 Medium ARMS rings without the later "humps" that prevent the levers going past 90 degrees. The optic is also a challenge if you want an actual period correct 3-9 TS30. Otherwise, just buy a non-TS30 marked 2.5-8 with M2 turrets and Illum Mildot and try to score a Mk12 turret for it. If not, you should be able to provide general Mk262 ammo data to Leupold and have them do a custom turret engraved, since some of the TS30s or 3.5-10s still around in group armories had different turret markings. Hell, before 2004 or so they were still using 62gr M855 turrets.

You can make it as hard or easy as you want, all depends on what level of "clone" you're shooting for. Anymore, I'd build a solid shooter that you can go and flog on. Paint it, hunt with it, drag it through the mud. You can replace with more "correct" parts as you go.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 2:54:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
In my experience, the hardest parts to find are -

Mod 0:
Original Mod 0 parts (most settle for retro reproductions) - front sight, hand guard, Swan sleeve

Mod 1:
Mod 1 Hand guard

Mod H:
Correct Gen 1 ACE SOCOM stock

Common:
Original KAC trigger (most settle for the Geissele)
Original optics (most settle for re-releases)
Original optic rings/mounts (most machine the new rings down)
Certain parts of the Eagle sling kit (KAC mount, sling silencer straps)
The cash to buy a registered receiver and a spouse that will let you spend it
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
In my experience, the hardest parts to find are -

Mod 0:
Original Mod 0 parts (most settle for retro reproductions) - front sight, hand guard, Swan sleeve

Mod 1:
Mod 1 Hand guard

Mod H:
Correct Gen 1 ACE SOCOM stock

Common:
Original KAC trigger (most settle for the Geissele)
Original optics (most settle for re-releases)
Original optic rings/mounts (most machine the new rings down)
Certain parts of the Eagle sling kit (KAC mount, sling silencer straps)
The cash to buy a registered receiver and a spouse that will let you spend it
Fixed that for ya.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 3:13:44 PM EDT
[#19]
I think I’m gonna go with the repro parts. I know it’s the easy way out but I’m not necessarily patient enough to go full bore clone.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 5:28:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
View Quote
Ops Inc 12th Model Suppressor
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 5:31:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:

Ops Inc 12th Model Suppressor
View Quote
Lol.

Lucky for me I already have one.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 5:34:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 5pt56:

Lol.

Lucky for me I already have one.
View Quote
That is pretty amazing cause they are hard to come by. I believe I know where a few new ones are left still if you're willing to buck up and pay the big money
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 5:53:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:

That is pretty amazing cause they are hard to come by. I believe I know where a few new ones are left still if you're willing to buck up and pay the big money
View Quote
Is it really that hard to find them and where do you find them?
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:03:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:

Is it really that hard to find them and where do you find them?
View Quote
What we're not telling you is that years ago, they were only sold to the military and then they were released for civvies and then some period of time passed and they are no longer made.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:05:04 PM EDT
[#25]
I know of a guy who has 2 left in stock. Probably the same person cjwwd2 is talking about. He told me $1,700 for one... I chose the AEM5 instead.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:54:43 PM EDT
[#26]
I was unaware they were no longer made. I though they were still in production.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:56:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Deadsquiggles] [#27]
Edit: Double post
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:56:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
I was unaware they were no longer made. I though they were still in production.
View Quote
Most of what you see are Allen Engineering AEM5s.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 6:57:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Deadsquiggles] [#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Outrider:

Most of what you see are Allen Engineering AEM5s.
View Quote
Oh ok. I’m assuming he’s referring to an actual Ops Inc produced 12th Model.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 7:00:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:

Oh ok. I’m assuming he’s referring to an actual Ops Inc produced 12th Model.
View Quote
Correct. I should have been more specific. OPS Inc 12th model cans are no longer produced. IIRC, around 2013 (ish)?
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 7:44:50 PM EDT
[#31]
What would be more correct? A black or grey A1 lower?
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 7:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMCSGT0331] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
So what're the hardest part to find?
View Quote
In no particular order:








Link Posted: 2/13/2018 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Show off!!

Outstanding collection!! Damn do I need a set of those rings without and stop humps.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 8:29:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 2:06:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mrsaturn7085] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:

Fixed that for ya.
View Quote
Gen 3 is correct - no one has taken the time to update the front page of the Mod H thread:

Mod H ACE SOCOM info

I omitted the Ops Inc 12th cans because aside from markings, the AEM5 is the same thing.  The important thing with this part is to specify knurling or not at the time of ordering.  According to AEM, both are correct but you cannot add knurling after manufacture due to the mandrel required for the process.
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 8:27:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aaron580] [#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:

Gen 3 is correct - no one has taken the time to update the front page of the Mod H thread:

Mod H ACE SOCOM info

I omitted the Ops Inc 12th cans because aside from markings, the AEM5 is the same thing.  The important thing with this part is to specify knurling or not at the time of ordering.  According to AEM, both are correct but you cannot add knurling after manufacture due to the mandrel required for the process.
View Quote
If it's truly a gen 3, then the newest replacement tube will fit in the stock with the square button, because doublestar doesn't sell gen 1 parts currently. And if memory serves me correctly, haveblue whatever had to mill a custom tube for his, because double star said replacement buffer tubes only fit gen 2 and newer. So does a new tube fit on the stock with the square button? I'm gonna put money on no, because it's a crude design that if somebody came up with that stock with screw in swivels and a clamp after other designs, then that's a complete failure of an engineering department. It makes no sense it's a gen 3.
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 8:50:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chenault] [#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:

Gen 3 is correct - no one has taken the time to update the front page of the Mod H thread:

Mod H ACE SOCOM info

I omitted the Ops Inc 12th cans because aside from markings, the AEM5 is the same thing.  The important thing with this part is to specify knurling or not at the time of ordering.  According to AEM, both are correct but you cannot add knurling after manufacture due to the mandrel required for the process.
View Quote
I've been meaning to talk to you about that.  I called Ace a couple weeks ago, I think after our last convo about this, and got two COMPLETELY different answers.  The more competent sounding person said it was a gen 1, the more aloof person actually said she thought it was their gen 2 and if I'd give her my email she would check for sure.  Since then nothing.

Was there a person you remember talking to that really knew their stuff?  As soon as I get a firm answer Ill change it, but not until.  That's just responsible.

I'm not doubting anyone, facts are facts, just confirming which is what I do at my job when doing research.
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 9:00:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aaron580] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chenault:

I've been meaning to talk to you about that.  I called Ace a couple weeks ago, I think after our last convo about this, and got two COMPLETELY different answers.  The more competent sounding person said it was a gen 1, the more aloof person actually said she thought it was their gen 2 and if I'd give her my email she would check for sure.  Since then nothing.

Was there a person you remember talking to that really knew their stuff?  As soon as I get a firm answer Ill change it, but not until.  That's just responsible.

I'm not doubting anyone, facts are facts, just confirming which is what I do at my job when doing research.
View Quote
I'll do some research on my end, got a couple ideas to get down to this, that's about all we can do at this point. When exactly did the first Mod H rifles with the ACE ship from PRI? was it 2008?
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 2:01:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 78Staff:
Seems like with the unimount, you gain a little ability to move the optic forward, but are now limited how far you can go forward by the rear portion of the mount vs. the front rings on a typical setup.

It's certainly able to move the 2.5-10x24 more forward than with either 22's or NF rings (like I have below), but appears one still can't really take full advantage. Base on our pics's it looks like with the unimount it can be moved about 3/4 of the cap width forward only.  Which, might be all that is needed really.

Anyway, this setup below does fine offhand/off the shoulder, but I will give it a try on the bench and prone this weekend.  If this doesn't work, I might pick up the UniMount from Brownell's - at least if it doesn't work out it will be straightforward to return.

https://i.imgur.com/457zL2Rh.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 78Staff:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
It's the 1.4" Ultra High w/20MOA

#306-97

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7370/27130307680_ca33760871_o.jpg
Seems like with the unimount, you gain a little ability to move the optic forward, but are now limited how far you can go forward by the rear portion of the mount vs. the front rings on a typical setup.

It's certainly able to move the 2.5-10x24 more forward than with either 22's or NF rings (like I have below), but appears one still can't really take full advantage. Base on our pics's it looks like with the unimount it can be moved about 3/4 of the cap width forward only.  Which, might be all that is needed really.

Anyway, this setup below does fine offhand/off the shoulder, but I will give it a try on the bench and prone this weekend.  If this doesn't work, I might pick up the UniMount from Brownell's - at least if it doesn't work out it will be straightforward to return.

https://i.imgur.com/457zL2Rh.jpg
Well I ordered a Badger #30697...should be here Friday.  Wonder how off my elevation is going to be off initially since it's 20moa mount and .25" taller than my NF rings...  Obvious answer would be 20" lol but not sure about the height difference and how it will affect it.

I run 20moa mounts on both my bolt guns, so don't expect having much trouble sighting in at 100yd, hopefully.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 2:26:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83] [#40]
my KAC unimount is said to be 19moa....I switched from the NF to the KAC mount and at 100yds it was indeed 19 clicks to get back to enter :)

I was pleased.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 1:35:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mrsaturn7085] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chenault:

I've been meaning to talk to you about that.  I called Ace a couple weeks ago, I think after our last convo about this, and got two COMPLETELY different answers.  The more competent sounding person said it was a gen 1, the more aloof person actually said she thought it was their gen 2 and if I'd give her my email she would check for sure.  Since then nothing.

Was there a person you remember talking to that really knew their stuff?  As soon as I get a firm answer Ill change it, but not until.  That's just responsible.

I'm not doubting anyone, facts are facts, just confirming which is what I do at my job when doing research.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chenault:

I've been meaning to talk to you about that.  I called Ace a couple weeks ago, I think after our last convo about this, and got two COMPLETELY different answers.  The more competent sounding person said it was a gen 1, the more aloof person actually said she thought it was their gen 2 and if I'd give her my email she would check for sure.  Since then nothing.

Was there a person you remember talking to that really knew their stuff?  As soon as I get a firm answer Ill change it, but not until.  That's just responsible.

I'm not doubting anyone, facts are facts, just confirming which is what I do at my job when doing research.
Yes - the person I talked to knew his stuff and said he was constantly correcting people that called in to order parts.  There was a phone conversation, but the meat of it was over e-mail.  I do not know if he still works there, but his name was Tim Mourning.  I'll quote the e-mail chain below, but I'll also note that I provided image history year-by-year in a previous post showing the round button was first, then the square button, and lastly the pill-shaped button (in terms of availability of the variants).

See the middle of this page: HERE

This isn't the first time I've done this kind of research - I'm the sole author of the Mk14 clone spreadsheet over on the M14forum (if you're bored...) and I completely understand you wanting proof... but regardless of what DoubleStar tells you over the phone, checking actual image history year-by-year online should still be the gold standard.

Two more facts to keep in mind:

1. I could order the square Gen 2/3 tube in 2017.  I could NOT order the round Gen 1 tube.
2. E-mail dates start 3/27/17, for a reference point when Tim refers to Gen 3 being used "9 years ago".

The part number for the Gen. 3 buffer tube is A613, they are not available on the website but you can give the ladies in our call center a call and they can take your order.  The price on the Gen3 tube is $76.99.

Thanks

Tim

TIM MOURNING CUSTOMER SUPPORT
DoubleStar Corp. | PO Box 430 Winchester, KY 40392
[P] 859.745.1757  [F] 859.745.4638  [W] star15.com

...

Hi Tim,

My SOCOM stock is the gen. 2 type with the square button and clamp-on receiver end-plate w/swivel style sling loop.  Will the gen. 3 tube work with the square latch?

Thanks,

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

...

Gen. 2 and Gen. 3 uses the same tube so you will be fine.

Tim

...

Perfect, and A613 is for the carbine-length and not the rifle, correct?  Thanks again for the help!  Mine isn't looking terrible, but it definitely slips between the #1 and #2 slots - see attached image. (pic 1, below - image shows my worn square-notch buffer tube)

-Steve

...

Tim,

One more thing that popped into my head - you said Gen 2 and Gen 3 use the same buffer tube; doesn't the Gen 3 use a castle nut style receiver end plate?  If so, wouldn't this mean that the Gen 3 tube needs a locating groove cut into the bottom of it (like standard Colt-style carbine buffer tubes)?

-Steve

...

A613 is for CAR length tube.  The Gen 3 Socom still used a gusset.  Gen 4, which is current production model uses a “mil-spec” egg plate and an enhanced castle nut.  The castle nut on the Gen 4 has a slightly larger outside diameter and extends back over the exposed threads.

Tim

...

Great! Thanks for the clarification!

-Steve

...

You’re welcome, glad I could help.

Tim

...

Tim,

Last question, I promise - just to clear up some confusion on some forums online, could you confirm the image I've attached shows the following (top to bottom): (pic 2, below - image is the well-known picture of three SOCOM stocks pasted all over this and the Mod H thread)

Gen 2
Gen 1 (long)
Gen 4

If this is correct, what was the difference between Gen 2 and 3?

Thanks,

Steve

...

Steve,

Sorry I haven’t gotten back to on that yet.  We were getting ready for a big show and that’s taken the better part of the last couple weeks.  I’m getting some information together and wanted to verify something before I got that sent out.  I hope to have that back to you in the next couple days.  When we bought the company about 9 years ago we were already on Gen 3 so I want to make sure the information I get you is as accurate as can be.

Thanks

Tim

...

Steve,

Sorry to take so long getting back with you.  I had to do a little checking and confirming to make sure everything is correct.  what the attached photo showed is:

Gen 3
Gen 1 (long)
Gen 4

Gen 1 Socom stocks  will have a round “nut” (the part the adjustment button screws into) it will also have a gusset with a machined sling loop (this is designed to be ambi, as the gusset can be removed from the stock and installed with the sling loop on the other side).  The Gen 1 will have 2 alignment slots on the top of the buffer tube that use 2 small flat head screws to keep the tube from rotating

Gen 2 Socom stocks will have a square “nut”(the part that the adjustment button screws into) it will also have a gusset with a machined sling loop (this is designed to be ambi, as the gusset can be removed from the stock and installed with the sling loop on the other side).  The Gen 2 will have 1 alignment slot on the top of the buffer tube that uses a set screw to hold in an alignment “nipple” to keep the tube from rotating.

Gen 3 Socom Stocks will have a square “nut”(the part the adjustment button screws into)  It will have a gusset with a tapped hole on both the left and right side of the gusset that will allow you to mount the upgraded Ace sling swivels, this gusset is not reversible.  The Gen 3 will have 1 alignment slot on the top of the buffer tube that uses a set screw to hold in an alignment “nipple” to keep the tube from rotating.

Gen 4 Socom stocks will have a “pill” shaped “nut”(the part the adjustment button screws into)  It uses an ambi receiver end plate and extended and oversized castle nut.(the over sizing and extending  help to strengthen the connection between the stock and the lower receiver)  The Gen 4 will have 1 alignment slot on the top of the buffer tube that uses a set screw to hold in an alignment “nipple” to keep the tube from rotating.

If I have missed anything or you have a question about anything above please let me know.  If you don’t care to send me a link to the forums/threads you post this information in  so I can watch them for questions or to clarify anything I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Tim

...

Not a problem Tim - thanks for the clarification!

The link is:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/520524_Official-Mk12-Mod0--Mod1--ModH-Photo-and-Discussion-Thread.html&page=814

Thanks again!

Steve

...

Glad I could be of help, sorry it took so long to get you all of the information.  I’ll keep the thread open and keep an eye on it.  If you have any questions in the future, please let me know.

Tim
Lastly, the Gen 2/3 tube part I ordered was exactly what I needed.  Two images referred to above are shown below:


Link Posted: 2/15/2018 2:31:29 PM EDT
[#42]
I'll throw out the only argument I've really seen to the above, as well:



The Atlas bipod, lack of sear pin, and round stock button all lead me to believe this was a design prototype and may have been pieced together from parts on hand (hence the older stock).  I'd let everyone form their own opinion about this one - even if it was a prototype at PRI, it would be a tough sell to call this one 'as-issued' without a sear hole.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 2:43:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
I'll throw out the only argument I've really seen to the above, as well:

https://s19.postimg.org/65tgfvdrn/Glass1_Mod_H_zps6e05kugl.png

The Atlas bipod, lack of sear pin, and round stock button all lead me to believe this was a design prototype and may have been pieced together from parts on hand (hence the older stock).  I'd let everyone form their own opinion about this one - even if it was a prototype at PRI, it would be a tough sell to call this one 'as-issued' without a sear hole.
View Quote
That belongs to member Glass1 who at the time worked for Badger Ordnance. I believe that was his personal clone.

He used to post in the clone threads quite a bit, but people were dicks and ran him off.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 5:42:55 PM EDT
[#44]
What’s the rough weight difference between a Mod 0 and a Mod 1. I know it depends on accessories of course but I think I remember reading that the Mod 1 was lighter.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 6:00:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mrsaturn7085] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
What’s the rough weight difference between a Mod 0 and a Mod 1. I know it depends on accessories of course but I think I remember reading that the Mod 1 was lighter.
View Quote
All up, I think my last estimate was between 0.25 and 0.75 lb.  Much of it depends on what all you consider - stripped upper or with accessories common to the Mod 0 vs. Mod 1?  If you weigh the Swan sleeve, you'll probably be within 10% of your actual weight difference with stripped uppers.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 7:13:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:

All up, I think my last estimate was between 0.25 and 0.75 lb.  Much of it depends on what all you consider - stripped upper or with accessories common to the Mod 0 vs. Mod 1?  If you weigh the Swan sleeve, you'll probably be within 10% of your actual weight difference with stripped uppers.
View Quote
Yeah with most common accessories attached. Was curious cause I’m conflicted on what to build. Really wanna build a Mod 0 cause I think they’re sexy but I also wanna build a Mod 1 cause it’s the rifle the Navy used, and if I remember correctly, my uncle carried one while in the Navy. So that got me wondering about the weight difference. And yes I know the logical answer is to build both
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 7:20:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:

Yeah with most common accessories attached. Was curious cause I’m conflicted on what to build. Really wanna build a Mod 0 cause I think they’re sexy but I also wanna build a Mod 1 cause it’s the rifle the Navy used, and if I remember correctly, my uncle carried one while in the Navy. So that got me wondering about the weight difference. And yes I know the logical answer is to build both
View Quote
My 2 cents is honor your uncle and build the mod 1. Screw the weight either way...

If you're worried about a half pound then do some pushups.

Kidding aside, the mod 1 is lighter.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 9:49:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Yeah I think I’ll do the Mod 1. A1 stocks are kosher for Mod 1’s, right? Already got one on my SPR inspired build that I can steal for this. And where do I find the KAC FF rail besides the EE? Ugh this won’t be easy.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 9:57:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Yes, A1 stock is good.

I'll shoot you an email with websites. I don't think you're supposed to post them or some crap.

It's shouldn't be too difficult for ya.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadsquiggles:
Yeah I think I’ll do the Mod 1. A1 stocks are kosher for Mod 1’s, right? Already got one on my SPR inspired build that I can steal for this. And where do I find the KAC FF rail besides the EE? Ugh this won’t be easy.
View Quote
Get on the notify list at Operation Parts.  Email Dennis Todd as well.
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