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Posted: 6/9/2016 3:04:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PursuitSS][Edited]
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This will be a "work in progress" for awhile... First of all....the "Legalize".  Keep in mind, I'm not a six figure a year attorney. Just an old broken down retired "Cop", so take this with a grain of salt. I'm not paid to give you Legal advise, you get what you pay for. Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent. My .02....DON'T DO IT!!!! It's not worth the risk! In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding (I know The People's Republic of Kalifornia is working on such a law and if they get the current version through, it's NASTY!) Discussion or suggestions of ANYTHING illegal will NOT be tolerated! Violations will be reported to Site Staff. Legalities of "80%" Lower Receivers BATF now states that an ”engraved” FAKE Sear hole on a receiver constitutes a machine gun, EVEN if it’s an unfinished “80%” Lower receiver Letter from Rock Your Glock that is alleging that BATF may be looking at “cracking down” on “80%” receivers in July 18 "80%"Jigs Summary "80%" AR-15 Lower Receiver Summary Summary of "80%" 9mm AR-15 Lower Receivers Help on milling an "80%" AR-15 Lower Machining out a ZERO% Lower Discussions on machinery for competing "80" Lowers Tips on how to mill an "80%" Lower for a better finished product Issues involving the "Rear Pocket" on AR Lowers Legality of borrowing equipment for completing “80%” Lowers Engraving Service For “80%” Lowers... Right To Bear Arms (INDUSTRY PARTNER) Here is in all probability the EASIEST way to complete an "80%" AR-15 Lower receiver... UPDATE:The following jigs are pretty much identical except for color 5D Tactical PRO Modulus Arms Extreme 80% Arms Easy Jig 3 5D Tactical Jig Review My review of the 5D Tactical PRO Jig Recommendations on Routers for use with the 5D Tactical Jig At a later date I will tackle an instructional post on Home Anodizing as it is something that definitely interests those of us who are "making chips" Important Threads that are unfortunately already Archived Threads Ghost Gunner CNC Upgrading Mini Mill's http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/706676_This-is-the-Upgrading-your-Mini-Mill-thread--also-other-milling-discussions----.html Links to State Laws governing “80%” lowers THAT I’M AWARE OF!!!! Washington State New Jersey California New York Illinois - is a Shit Show! At the MINIMUM you MUST have an FOID Card! Connecticut Washington State Washington D.C. Rhode Island |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols. CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ. |
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I have been looking forward to this opportunity to learn from each other for quite some time now. Please do everything you can to stay on the right side of the law. Encourage others to do the same. Let's enjoy our 2A rights and give a valiant effort not to jeopardize any of this. Build on! |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
| Honestly PursuitSS is going to have his hands full as a mod dealing with just 80% related stuff. Even weaponeer deals with discussions of topics that delve into grey areas of legality. As a result they are pretty no holds barred when it comes to locks, mod edits, trashing threads, and slamming down the ban hammer when needed to protect the community. |
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I'm really sorry about this. Being in Texas one can never comprehend why one thing in one state is perfectly fine while in another state makes you a convicted felon as bad as someone who committed actual felonies.
Honestly with 50 states and all the various jurisdictions it's really hard to make a forum conform to the laws of all states and jurisdictions. It would therefore be wise to have a disclaimer of saying to check your state or local laws on this... Like many civil rights (esp. Before the civil war) states are often the worse offender when it comes to depriving people of those rights. That was one reason why the 14th amendment was ratified. |
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I look forward to this forum. I got into the milling of lowers in 2008. Bought a mill and some very expensive 0% lowers and starting screwing up good aluminum. Most recently I picked up some CHEAP 80% lowers and wrote about them here http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/695990_Blem_80__lowers____15____.html For my two cents worth I would like to see something about how to engrave your lower (I used a etch o matic), and Home anodizing (my last effort was a complete failure) My latest build was completed on cheap harbor freight drill with a x-y vise, with a modification to control the z axis. Finished with VHT paint |
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I am really interested in trying some home anodizing. 'Sounds like a great winter project for some raw lowers that I need to make black. If you could do this instructional post, I would appreciate it very much. |
Budget builder-DIY'er
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
| Vader Spade's 80% covers anodizing. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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I just re-read that post and it is very informative-thanks for that. Something even more detailed would be a plus to an anodizing noob like myself. It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error. PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues? |
Budget builder-DIY'er
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
|
Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
I just re-read that post and it is very informative-thanks for that. Something even more detailed would be a plus to an anodizing noob like myself. It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error. PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues? Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error. PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues? I agree. I have read that thread 100's of times. I still haven't anodized any of my raw lowers. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
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Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues? Sorry, this is the best we could get approved by Site Administration. I'll do my best to try and make it into a "Sub-Forum". |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Well it's better than nothing. At least we are "at the top" and all of the important 80% threads (from the past and future) can be added to your opening post. Do you think MrZeat's Ghost Gunner thread should be added to the sticky list? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/687023_Ghost_Gunner____It_begins_.html |
Budget builder-DIY'er
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
AKA: Catholic Mechanic
Garage hack
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
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Posts:
9179
EE: 100% (35)
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Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
Well it's better than nothing. At least we are "at the top" and all of the important 80% threads (from the past and future) can be added to your opening post. Do you think MrZeat's Ghost Gunner thread should be added to the sticky list? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/687023_Ghost_Gunner____It_begins_.html Done. Unfortunately, it's an Archived Thread
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"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Modulus Arms HD jig review Recommendations on Routers for use with the Modulus Arms jig |
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Stolen from the gunsmith forum, but a lot of good info.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_49/300927_Mill_and_Tooling_Suppliers.html |
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Staff Paul has a good thread that led me down the Modulus road. Modulus Arms 80% Lower Jig Review (photo heavy) |
Nolo for the NRA Board of Directors!
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Proud Member of Team Ranstad!
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Proud Member of Team Ranstad!
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Originally Posted By K1rodeoboater:
NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols. CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ. Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved. THat would be news to me. Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds. |
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Originally Posted By geoint: Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved. THat would be news to me. Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds. Originally Posted By geoint: Originally Posted By K1rodeoboater: NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols. CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ. Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved. THat would be news to me. Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds. Ah that would make sense. There's so much stuff about CA's laws that I have read my head is spinning. |
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Side note to anyone who wants to finish a raw lower....do NOT use ceramic header paint. The stuff sucks and is far from chemical resistant. Used it on a F1 suppressor and not only does it rub/scratch easily but it also comes off with solvents as weak as denatured alcohol even after being cured per the instructions. If you want to use a paint of sorts just use spraypaint...it's a hell of a lot easier to strip off if nothing else  . Of course if you go to brownells/midway you can find a myriad of other options that are far more suitable than ceramic header paint or spraypaint. |
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Well I am getting ready to upgrade my mill to have DRO on it, does anybody have any recommendations on which ones you are using, I know I have read a couple of threads about them, but I don't seem to be able to locate those threads, so if you have a recommendation, please let me know.
Thanks. |
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I'm sure others will come along and tell you to stay away from the cheap igaging DRO's but from my experience with them, it wouldn't be worth more than 2-3 times the $$ for the next best setup. I have yet to find them as the weak point in my capabilities. After having mine set up for well over a year, I bought them again for my other machine.
I think if I had a Bridgeport or similar I would opt for something better like the glass scales with the full display and other functions. I think I have around $110-125 in all 3 DRO's. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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Regarding this: "Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent." And this: "If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower." I can't remember how many times I've seen posts by people saying that you can only manufacture a firearm for personal use but that you can never sell it or give it away. That's just not true under federal law. Note that under the provisions of 18 US Code §922 and elsewhere, the ATF has consistently held that "manufacture" is a legal term that for statutory purposes applies to those engaged in the business of, i.e. deriving "substantial income" from, the making/selling firearms. If you do it for your personal use or amusement you are not a "manufacturer" in terms of needing an FFL. As to selling your DIY project, the underlying legal concept is called alienability of property: "In property law, alienation is the capacity for a piece of property or a property right to be sold or otherwise transferred from one party to another." This term is commonly used concerning real property, but also applies to personal property. So in this sense, your firearm is personal property and generally deemed to be alienable. Also, while there are mandatory and specific labeling requirements for firearms manufacturers, there is no federal requirement for an individual to put any identifying marks whatsoever on a firearm made by that individual. The BATF points out that it is a good idea to put some kind of markings on the receiver, etc. so you can identify it if lost or stolen. So, under federal law you most certainly can sell your personally-made firearm as long as you aren't doing it for a living or as a substantial part of your income. Notes: Be sure the firearm you make is something you may legally own; for example: no NFA weapons. Be sure the person you give/sell it to may legally possess/own it, think 4473 questionnaire. Be sure the buyer knows and understands that you, not a commercial manufacturer, built it and there's no guarantee etc. like there would be with a factory-made gun, and that the buyer assumes the risk therewith. However heed this advice: "In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding..." |
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
~ Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack
~ Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
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Posts:
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Originally Posted By KitchenCounsel:
Regarding this: "Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent." And this: "If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower." I can't remember how many times I've seen posts by people saying that you can only manufacture a firearm for personal use but that you can never sell it or give it away. That's just not true under federal law. Note that under the provisions of 18 US Code §922 and elsewhere, the ATF has consistently held that "manufacture" is a legal term that for statutory purposes applies to those engaged in the business of, i.e. deriving "substantial income" from, the making/selling firearms. If you do it for your personal use or amusement you are not a "manufacturer" in terms of needing an FFL. As to selling your DIY project, the underlying legal concept is called alienability of property: "In property law, alienation is the capacity for a piece of property or a property right to be sold or otherwise transferred from one party to another." This term is commonly used concerning real property, but also applies to personal property. So in this sense, your firearm is personal property and generally deemed to be alienable. Also, while there are mandatory and specific labeling requirements for firearms manufacturers, there is no federal requirement for an individual to put any identifying marks whatsoever on a firearm made by that individual. The BATF points out that it is a good idea to put some kind of markings on the receiver, etc. so you can identify it if lost or stolen. So, under federal law you most certainly can sell your personally-made firearm as long as you aren't doing it for a living or as a substantial part of your income. Notes: Be sure the firearm you make is something you may legally own; for example: no NFA weapons. Be sure the person you give/sell it to may legally possess/own it, think 4473 questionnaire. Be sure the buyer knows and understands that you, not a commercial manufacturer, built it and there's no guarantee etc. like there would be with a factory-made gun, and that the buyer assumes the risk therewith. However heed this advice: "In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding..." I stand by my thoughts on the original post. If you start out with the INTENT of selling receivers you damn well better have a Type 07/Class II and be paying ITAR. Over the years I've had to interact with Federal Prosecutors and I can tell you that they can be real SOB's. One other thought, defending yourself in a Federal Court will run North of $20K. |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
| I am finishing my 80% lower and just found out about the new law here in Kalifornaia requiring the lower to have a serial # (can be anything you want/make up) and several lines engraved on the sides. And, then register it. Prior builds have to do that as well. Along with a new needed permit to buy ammo. The permit I understand will last 5 years. And, we have to, have to, give up any mag which holds more than 10 rds. Now causes me a little issue as I have an old S&W 4006 .40cal and it only came with 11 rd mags. Yes they make 10 rd ones, but that still ticks me off. As long as it has a bullet button ya gotta have it with a serial #. |
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Figure out a way to take your mag apart and put a plug in the bottom of it, so it will only hold 10 rounds..
I just ordered some 10 round AR mags that were CA compliant and all they were is 20 rounders with a preventer in them so I can only load 10 rounds in them and they say good to go for CA right on them. |
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Originally Posted By a1bigtuna:
If one puts a round limiter in a mag, pretty sure it has to be permanent non removable item. Not too sure how that can be done. Not hard at all, you just have to use something to glue the limiter into the bottom of the mag so that it is not easily removable. That said, you need to contact the agency that handles the the gun laws in the state and ask them, if they will accept modified magazines. |
| FYI, Modulus Arms just released our Heavy-Duty Universal AR-308/AR-10 80% Jig. It's 15% tomorrow. |
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS: I stand by my thoughts on the original post. If you start out with the INTENT of selling receivers you damn well better have a Type 07/Class II and be paying ITAR. Over the years I've had to interact with Federal Prosecutors and I can tell you that they can be real SOB's. One other thought, defending yourself in a Federal Court will run North of $20K. _________________________________________________ I think we're on the same page re intent, except that there's also the "in the business of" and "derive substantial income" to consider. If you make a few lowers, keep one or two for your projects and sell a couple to your buddies or whatever, that's okay even if you were thinking about doing that beforehand. OTOH, "intent" as you seem to mean it implies you're doing it just to make some bucks and in that case I agree you'll need the appropriate license. As to the ITAR, it's a bit beyond the scope of this thread but the run-of-the-mill gunsmith or FFL is beyond the scope of the ITAR, which if you read the statutes, is specifically aimed at manufacurers/resellers who will be exporting "defense items" to other countries. The empowering statute makes the intent clear, and the whole thing is under the purview of the State Department, which is not dealing with domestic sales. Originally Posted By PursuitSS: Originally Posted By KitchenCounsel: Regarding this: "Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent." And this: "If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower." I can't remember how many times I've seen posts by people saying that you can only manufacture a firearm for personal use but that you can never sell it or give it away. That's just not true under federal law. Note that under the provisions of 18 US Code §922 and elsewhere, the ATF has consistently held that "manufacture" is a legal term that for statutory purposes applies to those engaged in the business of, i.e. deriving "substantial income" from, the making/selling firearms. If you do it for your personal use or amusement you are not a "manufacturer" in terms of needing an FFL. As to selling your DIY project, the underlying legal concept is called alienability of property: "In property law, alienation is the capacity for a piece of property or a property right to be sold or otherwise transferred from one party to another." This term is commonly used concerning real property, but also applies to personal property. So in this sense, your firearm is personal property and generally deemed to be alienable. Also, while there are mandatory and specific labeling requirements for firearms manufacturers, there is no federal requirement for an individual to put any identifying marks whatsoever on a firearm made by that individual. The BATF points out that it is a good idea to put some kind of markings on the receiver, etc. so you can identify it if lost or stolen. So, under federal law you most certainly can sell your personally-made firearm as long as you aren't doing it for a living or as a substantial part of your income. Notes: Be sure the firearm you make is something you may legally own; for example: no NFA weapons. Be sure the person you give/sell it to may legally possess/own it, think 4473 questionnaire. Be sure the buyer knows and understands that you, not a commercial manufacturer, built it and there's no guarantee etc. like there would be with a factory-made gun, and that the buyer assumes the risk therewith. However heed this advice: "In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding..." I stand by my thoughts on the original post. If you start out with the INTENT of selling receivers you damn well better have a Type 07/Class II and be paying ITAR. Over the years I've had to interact with Federal Prosecutors and I can tell you that they can be real SOB's. One other thought, defending yourself in a Federal Court will run North of $20K. _________________________________________________ I think we're on the same page re intent, except that there's also the "in the business of" and "derive substantial income" to consider. If you make a few lowers, keep one or two for your projects and sell a couple to your buddies or whatever, that's okay even if you were thinking about doing that beforehand. OTOH, "intent" as you seem to mean it implies you're doing it just to make some bucks and in that case I agree you'll need the appropriate license. As to the ITAR, it's a bit beyond the scope of this thread but the run-of-the-mill gunsmith or FFL is beyond the scope of the ITAR, which if you read the statutes, is specifically aimed at manufacurers/resellers who will be exporting "defense items" to other countries. The empowering statute makes the intent clear, and the whole thing is under the purview of the State Department, which is not dealing with domestic sales. |
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
~ Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack
~ Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
May 2006
Posts:
9887
EE: 100% (35)
MO, USA
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B.A.T.F.E. has made it clear that ITAR MUST be paid if you are a Type 07 or a Class II.
It doesn't matter whether you export or not. I don't agree with the interpretation but BOTH B.A.T.F.E. & State Dept. agree that you must pay it. |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
|
Originally Posted By PursuitSS: B.A.T.F.E. has made it clear that ITAR MUST be paid if you are a Type 07 or a Class II.
It doesn't matter whether you export or not. I don't agree with the interpretation but BOTH B.A.T.F.E. & State Dept. agree that you must pay it. I think some of the ITAR fees should be in our sights under President Trump ahead of some other priorities. I can live w/ 41f if I have to. |
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912
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These guys.
They say they'll have more 80% lowers come early next year. |
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912
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http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml
Some info about anodizing at home. The writer is outside 'murica so all temperatures are in degrees Celsius I'm half tempted to take a stab at Type III at home this winter since the temps in my garage are regularly below freezing here |
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Originally Posted By j3_:
Anyone tried one of these jigs yet? http://www.5dtactical.com/ Nope but it's an interesting evolution/spin off from the Modulus jig. |
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
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Posts:
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EE: 100% (35)
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...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
May 2006
Posts:
9920
EE: 100% (35)
MO, USA
|
Originally Posted By j3_:
I found the company in the industry forum so I would guess they are a site sponsor too. Maybe they will post about it. Good catch!!! I had no idea they are an Industry Partner. |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
|
For anybody interested, I found a company on ebay that is selling 3 piece iGaging DRO kits for $129.99 with free shipping and their latest technology digital readouts, mounting brackets, batteries, etc.
They consist of a 24", 12" and 6" scales and they can be cut down to fit the application you need them for, I will be using them on my Grizzly Mini Mill for doing lowers and am looking forward to doing a 0% in the near future. |
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
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Originally Posted By DaveP1:
For anybody interested, I found a company on ebay that is selling 3 piece iGaging DRO kits for $129.99 with free shipping and their latest technology digital readouts, mounting brackets, batteries, etc. They consist of a 24", 12" and 6" scales and they can be cut down to fit the application you need them for, I will be using them on my Grizzly Mini Mill for doing lowers and am looking forward to doing a 0% in the near future. Thanks, I guess it's time to upgrade my Sieg X2D. 
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"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Thanks, I guess it's time to upgrade my Sieg X2D. I have been reading up on their new digital read outs and they look like they are pretty good for the money, I am also looking at my option to install and app on a old Android tablet I have and then have all three on one tablet. It will be fun, I think the building part is as fun as the finishing part, my wife hates that I like to tinker! https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5337559805&toolId=10001&customId=iwl9g9z17g00zk8a00004&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F142023107663%3F_trksid%3Dp2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
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Update!!!!
Pursuit.... I highly recommend you picking one of these kits up as well as anyone else that is thinking this way, they are really nice DRO kits for the price and the shipping it quick! I thought the displays would be small, but all three of them combined are quite large! Good stuff in my opinion! |
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Get them installed and start a thread with some action shots!
Post some install shots too. I did a LOT of research before I installed mine. Didn't find much back then tho. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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