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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ghost Gunner... It begins. (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 12/29/2015 6:54:07 PM EDT
Well holy crap. It actually shipped. Shows 52 lbs. Damn near a year, I figured I was a fool and his money at this point.
I'm excited to tinker and share my results 
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Nice!
I'm excited to tinker and share my results Color me very curious! I'm always skeptical of claims regarding small and (relatively) inexpensive machines, so I'll be very interested in seeing what it turns out. Honestly, my guess is that the last year since they took your money has likely been ironing out bugs, so hopefully it works very well. I'd also like to see what other capabilities it has. It's a bit small for any of my needs, but still could be an exciting little machine! |
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Out of curiousity, what do these sell for? I see them mentioning it being cheaper then 1500, and them taking a $250 deposit, but don't see a price anywhere on the site.
I purchased a 12" Wen drill press for doing lowers, but am thinking about returning it, and getting a HF mini mill for a few hundred more.. |
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I think all said and done $1250… I think if you want one now it's closer to $1500. Too much.
I do hope the gcode isn't terrible difficult, I'm an engineer at heart with a lot of programming and engineering background, so it would be fun after learning it better to go a little off book and see what it all can be used for... At this point I wouldn't give them any money unless they have a proven lead time of less than a couple months, their communication has been pretty terrible. |
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Quoted: Guy on snipers hide didn't do something right. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/TheGoon03/IMG_0330.jpg It don't look pretty, but it'll probably work....of course that doesn't fix the whole living like a pig thing they've got going for them. |
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Quoted:
A dedicated CNC machine just for 80% AR lowers. Quoted:
Quoted: What is it? A dedicated CNC machine just for 80% AR lowers. It's a small CNC machine thats 1st program is to make ARs. It is expected the 2nd released program will do 1911 frames. It's not a dedicated machine - it's just a small CNC mill. |
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Soon. Only a couple more hours to get out of here... https://mrzeat.com/misc/ggdelivered.jpg off topic, but what camera setup is that? |
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off topic, but what camera setup is that? Quoted:
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Soon. Only a couple more hours to get out of here... https://mrzeat.com/misc/ggdelivered.jpg off topic, but what camera setup is that? Dahua IPC-HFW4300S cameras, Milestone Xprotect software. If I did it again I think the Luxriot software is way better and a better value with the 9 camera license. |
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Welp... Here goes nothing... Sorry for the delay this has been a much longer headache inducing process than I had expected. I need a beer.
I think the only way to be fair is to post exactly what I received, what I did, and what happened. I did not finish the process and do not have a completed ar15 lower at this point. I have an email out to the DD people, we'll see how they get back. Here are the setup photos I took, before I made my first run, the only thing of note is I did have to lightly trim down the jig so it fit on my lower, taking just a tiny bit of material from the lip that goes goes in the bolt release slot with an xacto knife. All of this was pretty trivial and easy. 
This was the first time hitting start after it had done it's first 5 minute warmup: 
Now at this point, I had no idea why it had failed. I immediately clicked the emergency stop button and disconnected the USB. I thought maybe I screwed up and the collet wasn't all the way tight. So I undid everything tightened it down again even though it was still quite tight (it was not slipping). I even thought maybe it was possibly intentional as a way to determine how deep to plunge, I had no idea what was going on, so I tried it again. I missed filming the start, but basically it plunged, binded for a second then continued to spin I assumed normally. Once I started the camera back up I caught it going back after one depth and starting the next back at the start. This happened, skip to ~1 min mark:
Since it did continue it's process after this, I let it finished. I had NO idea it was having this much problem with the alignment and cutting or I would have stopped it much sooner. Fortunately I don't think anything further bad happened to my machine from my doing, it seemed quite content to continue on, but clearly something isn't working right. This process took a bit over an hour for it to work it's way down. 
I aborted the process after the milling step and did not continue. You'll notice one side came out smooth, the other very rough, I'm pretty sure it was bogging down on it's "cleaning" passes at the end which is why it ended up that way. Clearly something not right. I'll update this thread as I learn more... |
| ... I've been told it only works on 80% lowers with the rear takedown already milled out... These do not have that... still seems odd the way it behaved, but that may explain it... I don't recall reading that, but it is in the faq on their website I see now... Feeling kind of like a retard now. |
Yeah, they have a software patch evidently, but supposedly State Dept won't let them send it out, claiming it would be an ITAR violation. But given you just got the machine... 
Sorry it didn't work for you. Kudos on getting one. I'd love to be able to afford that poke in the Salesman-In-Chief's eye. |
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I did buy some 80%s (which are again all almost sold out and overpriced as shit thanks to recent events...) With the rear takedown milled, I'll update with one of those as I should have used...
I'm wondering if I can just use a drill press to simply drill out the take down area then use the GG after... Seems like the GG should be capable in some fashion or another mill the rear takedown on its own  . I still have two of the lowers like pictured...
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Yeah, they have a software patch evidently, but supposedly State Dept won't let them send it out, claiming it would be an ITAR violation. But given you just got the machine...
Sorry it didn't work for you. Kudos on getting one. I'd love to be able to afford that poke in the Salesman-In-Chief's eye. I've used an updated program for the FCG pin holes and safety drilling. In order to use, one has to run the machine for milling the FCG using the original software, then once that process is complete, close the program and restart using the new program. It's a shame that the promised GG forum is inactive due to the ongoing legal challenge. The lack of immediate technical support from GG is frustrating to say the least. With all the machines in the wild it would be extremely beneficial to have a "gathering place" to discuss issues. I've had multiple email exchanges with the GG group solving issues, but it's been an exercise in patience. |
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I did buy some 80%s (which are again all almost sold out and overpriced as shit thanks to recent events...) With the rear takedown milled, I'll update with one of those as I should have used... I'm wondering if I can just use a drill press to simply drill out the take down area then use the GG after... Seems like the GG should be capable in some fashion or another mill the rear takedown on its own . I still have two of the lowers like pictured...What you suggest seems realistic if you can duplicate it dimensionally. The machine needs the pocket to get to the correct depth for each run. ETA, Did the binding damage the machine? I crashed a bit because I got complacent between steps and my spindle had a pronounced wobble which required a return to the GG shop. You can set up the machine empty and run the just the warm-up to observe the mill for wobble. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I did buy some 80%s (which are again all almost sold out and overpriced as shit thanks to recent events...) With the rear takedown milled, I'll update with one of those as I should have used... I'm wondering if I can just use a drill press to simply drill out the take down area then use the GG after... Seems like the GG should be capable in some fashion or another mill the rear takedown on its own . I still have two of the lowers like pictured...What you suggest seems realistic if you can duplicate it dimensionally. The machine needs the pocket to get to the correct depth for each run. ETA, Did the binding damage the machine? I crashed a bit because I got complacent between steps and my spindle had a pronounced wobble which required a return to the GG shop. You can set up the machine empty and run the just the warm-up to observe the mill for wobble. I don't think so, it seems fine. We'll find out I guess. |
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I'm less than impressed for the money, imo this thing is not young enough to be having growing pains.
That kinda cash ought to have a push button and a completed lower pops out button lol... Hope they get it worked out in software, I could use a little CNC box for other stuff too. |
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That sucks. I'm nowhere remotely close to being a machinist, but form my limited CNC experience (very limited) it sounds like it's plunging too much.
Is that 7075-T6 or something harder? I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. But I really hope the bugs get worked out of this machine? |
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As rough as your cuts are I'd say it's running too fast and your piece is vibrating/moving during the cut.
Aluminum can smear and gum up if you put too much heat into the cutting process. Can you slow the RPMs of the cutter head or use some cutting fluid? Is the unit capable of supplying cutting oil? |
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Quoted: That sucks. I'm nowhere remotely close to being a machinist, but form my limited CNC experience (very limited) it sounds like it's plunging too much.
Is that 7075-T6 or something harder? I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. But I really hope the bugs get worked out of this machine? It's not single purpose - the 1911 program hasn't been written yet. |
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Quoted: It's not single purpose - the 1911 program hasn't been written yet. Quoted: Quoted: That sucks. I'm nowhere remotely close to being a machinist, but form my limited CNC experience (very limited) it sounds like it's plunging too much. Is that 7075-T6 or something harder? I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. But I really hope the bugs get worked out of this machine? It's not single purpose - the 1911 program hasn't been written yet. 
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Well until they actually send it out its single purpose. Quoted:
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Quoted: That sucks. I'm nowhere remotely close to being a machinist, but form my limited CNC experience (very limited) it sounds like it's plunging too much.
Is that 7075-T6 or something harder? I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. But I really hope the bugs get worked out of this machine? It's not single purpose - the 1911 program hasn't been written yet. The GG is for those that want an out of the box solution. I like it, I wouldn't buy one, but I can see it's purpose and it fits the bill. Hopefully they get all the issues ironed out. I'd like to see these at every build party, range party and social gathering. It would take a bit of youtubing and ebaying, but for $1500 you could easily build your own cnc mill capable of turning mass quantities of 80%'ers into fully functional lowers. Along with most anything else you want around that size. one of a million youtube examples
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The GG is for those that want an out of the box solution. I like it, I wouldn't buy one, but I can see it's purpose and it fits the bill. Hopefully they get all the issues ironed out. I'd like to see these at every build party, range party and social gathering. It would take a bit of youtubing and ebaying, but for $1500 you could easily build your own cnc mill capable of turning mass quantities of 80%'ers into fully functional lowers. Along with most anything else you want around that size. one of a million youtube examples  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSkmhxCentc
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: That sucks. I'm nowhere remotely close to being a machinist, but form my limited CNC experience (very limited) it sounds like it's plunging too much.
Is that 7075-T6 or something harder? I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. But I really hope the bugs get worked out of this machine? It's not single purpose - the 1911 program hasn't been written yet. The GG is for those that want an out of the box solution. I like it, I wouldn't buy one, but I can see it's purpose and it fits the bill. Hopefully they get all the issues ironed out. I'd like to see these at every build party, range party and social gathering. It would take a bit of youtubing and ebaying, but for $1500 you could easily build your own cnc mill capable of turning mass quantities of 80%'ers into fully functional lowers. Along with most anything else you want around that size. one of a million youtube examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSkmhxCentc
Maybe if you are a computer programmer AND an engineer. You could pull it off. I'm pretty sure the Ghost Gunner is marketed to the rest of us who can barely chuck in and set a zero reference point then hit the on switch.
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Maybe if you are a computer programmer AND an engineer. You could pull it off. I'm pretty sure the Ghost Gunner is marketed to the rest of us who can barely chuck in and set a zero reference point then hit the on switch. Quoted:
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***snip** The GG is for those that want an out of the box solution. I like it, I wouldn't buy one, but I can see it's purpose and it fits the bill. Hopefully they get all the issues ironed out. I'd like to see these at every build party, range party and social gathering. It would take a bit of youtubing and ebaying, but for $1500 you could easily build your own cnc mill capable of turning mass quantities of 80%'ers into fully functional lowers. Along with most anything else you want around that size. one of a million youtube examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSkmhxCentc
Maybe if you are a computer programmer AND an engineer. You could pull it off. I'm pretty sure the Ghost Gunner is marketed to the rest of us who can barely chuck in and set a zero reference point then hit the on switch. Touche FWIW, I am a programmer, and I still don't have one. Maybe next year |
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I honestly can't say I'm surprised at the issues you're having. GG is not really a mill; it's a tiny CNC router in a box, and it behaves as such. There's not enough mass to dampen vibration, especially trying to run router spindle speeds.
For anyone who'd been thinking about this, be advised that you can CNC the little Harbor Freight/Seig/LMS/Grizzly mini machines for not a whole lot more. ~$600 base machine, and about another $1,200 for all the stepper motors, drivers, ball screws, pulleys, belts, etc. that you need. They'll be much more flexible and capable. I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. If you're talking CNC, you're gonna spend more than a little over $1,500. I haven't seen a respectable, serviceable 3 axis CNC mill go for less than about $7k, with small VMCs starting around $12K |
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That depends heavily on one's definition of serviceable and respectable with what one can get out of asia these days for so (relatively) little..
As usual, one can go cheaper if they have more ability/patience/smarts and still get good results. That stuff's doing nothing but getting cheaper and better though. I've seen more than a few chinese mills advertised with pics of AR lowers prominent in the advertising already, they aren't stupid or un-business minded. Give em time.. |
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I'll be honest...
For 800 dollars you could buy a Grizzly mini mill and finish the lower that way, and it will come out looking a LOT better. The cuts on a 80% lower aren't that complicated... you shouldn't need CNC unless you are going to be mass producing it. How much does the machine weight? If it's really light (as in under 50lbs) then it should be taking .005" cuts and advancing slowly. This means it takes a long time to crank out a lower but it will also mean the surface finish won't be so bad. The spindle RPM should also be around 15,000 RPM, using 1/4" carbide end mills. The lower in the photo looks worse than someone using a drill press! |
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Ô Quoted:
I honestly can't say I'm surprised at the issues you're having. GG is not really a mill; it's a tiny CNC router in a box, and it behaves as such. There's not enough mass to dampen vibration, especially trying to run router spindle speeds. For anyone who'd been thinking about this, be advised that you can CNC the little Harbor Freight/Seig/LMS/Grizzly mini machines for not a whole lot more. ~$600 base machine, and about another $1,200 for all the stepper motors, drivers, ball screws, pulleys, belts, etc. that you need. They'll be much more flexible and capable. If you're talking CNC, you're gonna spend more than a little over $1,500. I haven't seen a respectable, serviceable 3 axis CNC mill go for less than about $7k, with small VMCs starting around $12K Quoted:
I honestly can't say I'm surprised at the issues you're having. GG is not really a mill; it's a tiny CNC router in a box, and it behaves as such. There's not enough mass to dampen vibration, especially trying to run router spindle speeds. For anyone who'd been thinking about this, be advised that you can CNC the little Harbor Freight/Seig/LMS/Grizzly mini machines for not a whole lot more. ~$600 base machine, and about another $1,200 for all the stepper motors, drivers, ball screws, pulleys, belts, etc. that you need. They'll be much more flexible and capable. I like the idea of such a machine, but $1500 for a single-purpose CNC machine seems to be too much, especially since it won't thread the receiver extension. I'd rather spend a little more money and get a larger general purpose machine. If you're talking CNC, you're gonna spend more than a little over $1,500. I haven't seen a respectable, serviceable 3 axis CNC mill go for less than about $7k, with small VMCs starting around $12K Do you have a link showing how to retrofit a HF mill for cnc? |
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Quoted: I honestly can't say I'm surprised at the issues you're having. GG is not really a mill; it's a tiny CNC router in a box, and it behaves as such. There's not enough mass to dampen vibration, especially trying to run router spindle speeds. I admire the Ghost Gunner folks for making the statement more than anything else. Agreed, you can get similar results w/ a router/jig setup. But the intent is this is like a bread machine - it doesn't give you the best bread, but you don't have to mix it & knead it yourself. For folks that have the Ghost Gunner, would bolting it to a heavy platform, or sandbagging it in place help dampen the vibration? Can it be programmed to run @ lower speeds or take shallower cuts? |
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That depends heavily on one's definition of serviceable and respectable with what one can get out of asia these days for so (relatively) little. Shit, I was talking used CNC knee mills with functional stepper motors that maybe only require new drivers and a CAM computer to run them. For brand new, this is about as cheap as you get: http://www.tormach.com/buy_pcnc770.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAws20BRCs-P-ssLbSlg4SJABbVcDpD6i-iioaR2d46i3wScvSti0ianyIAWdSSFTL61OaLRoCzFjw_wcB And though it would work fine for AR lowers, it's diminutive size is going to limit you a great deal. Do you have a link showing how to retrofit a HF mill for cnc? Google is your friend, lots of different way to do it. The kits will be more expensive than making & sourcing stuff yourself, but easier. Here's a video to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niVLBF1D5Wg |
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I admire the Ghost Gunner folks for making the statement more than anything else. Agreed, you can get similar results w/ a router/jig setup. But the intent is this is like a bread machine - it doesn't give you the best bread, but you don't have to mix it & knead it yourself. For folks that have the Ghost Gunner, would bolting it to a heavy platform, or sandbagging it in place help dampen the vibration? Can it be programmed to run @ lower speeds or take shallower cuts? Quoted:
Quoted: I honestly can't say I'm surprised at the issues you're having. GG is not really a mill; it's a tiny CNC router in a box, and it behaves as such. There's not enough mass to dampen vibration, especially trying to run router spindle speeds. I admire the Ghost Gunner folks for making the statement more than anything else. Agreed, you can get similar results w/ a router/jig setup. But the intent is this is like a bread machine - it doesn't give you the best bread, but you don't have to mix it & knead it yourself. For folks that have the Ghost Gunner, would bolting it to a heavy platform, or sandbagging it in place help dampen the vibration? Can it be programmed to run @ lower speeds or take shallower cuts? The issue OP experienced was caused by a lower that did not have the rear take down lug milled. The GG machine is programmed to make use of that pre-existing pocket to begin it's milling passes. If you watch OP's video the machine binds when it attempts to plunge to the depth of the next pass. The programming doesn't allow for material to be in the way. The guys at GG recommend placing the machine on a heavy level surface. Even at 50 lbs not doing so will cause it to walk around and stress the machine. My current machine (a replacement) stays put on my workbench. I have not had to secure it yet. The machine mainly runs at about 9000 rpm or so for most operations, but drops to half (or slower) for various operations. All the programming is accessible but I have not attempted to modify, not do I have the skills yet to try. It ships with a 2 flute end mill although I am now using a (GG recommended) 3 flute which has yielded superior results. I do agree that a slower feed rate would be better in the long run. Have I had issues? Yes. It initially wouldn't self test until I adjusted a limit switch on the z axis (likely jarred during shipping). The machine had numerous run time stoppages that I attributed to the Dell laptop I was driving it with. It bound when drilling the FCG pins due to the feed rate being too high. (Corrected by using a newer code and I started using a small drop or two of oil) I had to modify the jig to ensure the lowers I was using (Anderson & Tactical Machine) were true to the mill surface. I also crashed the mill and bent the spindle because I got complacent and skipped a step. (replacement machine) The GG guys have really good about responding to emails (albeit a little slow) for technical advice and assistance. I am certain, had they been able to establish a forum as initially planned, that their growing pains would have been easily overcome. Here is my best (left) and worst (right) results using a three flute end mill. 
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Because gun-making robot is awesome, and hurts Tories' feels? Quoted:
Quoted: What I don't understand is, if you are only milling out 80% Lowers for yourself why spend the money to go CNC?
On a basic Sieg X2 you should be able to finish an 80% lower in around an hour. Because gun-making robot is awesome, and hurts Tories' feels? And because you can't stop the signal. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ghost Gunner... It begins. (Page 1 of 4)
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