Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 6/9/2016 2:04:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2020 3:56:05 PM EST by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 2:19:26 PM EST
Ye Ha! here we go!
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 2:27:12 PM EST
Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 4:15:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/9/2016 10:30:31 PM EST by PursuitSS]
Yea I heard about the Kalifornia one... Edited: We need to be careful on suggestions. PursuitSS

Good advise on the selling. If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 7:22:18 PM EST
NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols.



CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 8:36:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2016 5:36:34 AM EST by AFCarbon15]

I have been looking forward to this opportunity to learn from each other for quite some time now.  Please do everything you can to stay on the right side of the law. Encourage others to do the same.  Let's enjoy our 2A rights and give a valiant effort not to jeopardize any of this.  Build on!

Link Posted: 6/9/2016 8:54:51 PM EST
Honestly PursuitSS is going to have his hands full as a mod dealing with just 80% related stuff. Even weaponeer deals with discussions of topics that delve into grey areas of legality. As a result they are pretty no holds barred when it comes to locks, mod edits, trashing threads, and slamming down the ban hammer when needed to protect the community.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 9:39:08 PM EST
I'm really sorry about this. Being in Texas one can never comprehend why one thing in one state is perfectly fine while in another state makes you a convicted felon as bad as someone who committed actual felonies.

Honestly with 50 states and all the various jurisdictions it's really hard to make a forum conform to the laws of all states and jurisdictions. It would therefore be wise to have a disclaimer of saying to check your state or local laws on this... Like many civil rights (esp. Before the civil war) states are often the worse offender when it comes to depriving people of those rights. That was one reason why the 14th amendment was ratified.
Link Posted: 6/9/2016 9:47:09 PM EST
I look forward to this forum.  I got into the milling of lowers in 2008. Bought a mill and some very expensive 0% lowers and starting screwing up good aluminum.
Most recently I picked up some  CHEAP 80% lowers and wrote about them here
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/695990_Blem_80__lowers____15____.html
For my two cents worth I would like to see something about how to engrave your lower (I used a etch o matic),
and  Home anodizing (my last effort was a complete failure)
My latest build was completed on cheap harbor freight drill with a x-y vise, with a modification to control the z axis.
Finished with VHT paint
 
 
 
 
Link Posted: 6/12/2016 7:37:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By PursuitSS:






At a later date I will tackle an instructional post on Home Anodizing as it is something that definitely interests those of us who are "making chips"
View Quote
I am really interested in trying some home anodizing. 'Sounds like a great winter project for some raw lowers that I need to make black.

If you could do this instructional post, I would appreciate it very much.



 
Link Posted: 6/12/2016 9:54:21 AM EST
Vader Spade's 80% covers anodizing.
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 5:27:18 AM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AFCarbon15:


Vader Spade's 80% covers anodizing.
View Quote
I just re-read that post and it is very informative-thanks for that. Something even more detailed would be a plus to an anodizing noob like myself.

It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error.



PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues?



 
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 5:57:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
I just re-read that post and it is very informative-thanks for that. Something even more detailed would be a plus to an anodizing noob like myself.
It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error.

PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues?
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpharomeofifteen:
Originally Posted By AFCarbon15:
Vader Spade's 80% covers anodizing.
I just re-read that post and it is very informative-thanks for that. Something even more detailed would be a plus to an anodizing noob like myself.
It is also good to see how others have perfected their own process, through trial and error.

PursuitSS- Is this sticky thread just a precursor to a totally separate sub-forum dedicated to 80% issues?
 


I agree.  I have read that thread 100's of times.  I still haven't anodized any of my raw lowers.  

Link Posted: 6/14/2016 12:56:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2016 12:56:24 PM EST by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 4:12:01 PM EST
Well it's better than nothing.

At least we are "at the top" and all of the important 80% threads (from the past and future) can be added to your opening post.



Do you think MrZeat's Ghost Gunner thread should be added to the sticky list?



http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/687023_Ghost_Gunner____It_begins_.html
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 6:01:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2016 6:42:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2017 6:48:43 PM EST by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 4:10:26 AM EST
Stolen from the gunsmith forum, but a lot of good info.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_49/300927_Mill_and_Tooling_Suppliers.html
Link Posted: 7/17/2016 10:33:04 PM EST
excellent, thanks Pursuit!
Link Posted: 7/17/2016 10:34:45 PM EST
Staff Paul has a good thread that led me down the Modulus road.



Modulus Arms 80% Lower Jig Review (photo heavy)
Link Posted: 8/1/2016 12:44:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By K1rodeoboater:
NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols.

CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ.
View Quote

Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved.  THat would be news to me.  

Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 8:37:41 AM EST
Has anyone used Daytona Tactical? If I am going to buy a lower I would prefer to buy the upper from the same people.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 7:17:46 PM EST
I have a couple, i like their anodized ones better than their raw.
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 12:00:35 AM EST

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By geoint:





Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved.  THat would be news to me.  



Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By geoint:



Originally Posted By K1rodeoboater:

NJ is also 100% verboten for a resident to complete or build any firearm without a state business permit inside the state of NJ..... However if they build it out of state and bring it back that's ok...somehow. I know this is the case with rifles, don't know about pistols.



CA you can, as of now, you have to engrave all the same info as in a factory lower and you have to register it with the DOJ.



Please share the current law that requires that CA builds be engraved.  THat would be news to me.  



Currently builds don't need to be serialized/engraved as I understood it but Gunpocalypse changed that and yes starting next year you will have to engrave and register all builds.




 
Ah that would make sense.  There's so much stuff about CA's laws that I have read my head is spinning.  
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 12:04:29 AM EST
Side note to anyone who wants to finish a raw lower....do NOT use ceramic header paint.  The stuff sucks and is far from chemical resistant.  Used it on a F1 suppressor and not only does it rub/scratch easily but it also comes off with solvents as weak as denatured alcohol even after being cured per the instructions.



If you want to use a paint of sorts just use spraypaint...it's a hell of a lot easier to strip off if nothing else .  Of course if you go to brownells/midway you can find a myriad of other options that are far more suitable than ceramic header paint or spraypaint.
Link Posted: 9/9/2016 3:49:45 AM EST
Well I am getting ready to upgrade my mill to have DRO on it, does anybody have any recommendations on which ones you are using, I know I have read a couple of threads about them, but I don't seem to be able to locate those threads, so if you have a recommendation, please let me know.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/9/2016 9:37:23 AM EST
I'm sure others will come along and tell you to stay away from the cheap igaging DRO's but from my experience with them, it wouldn't be worth more than 2-3 times the $$ for the next best setup.  I have yet to find them as the weak point in my capabilities.  After having mine set up for well over a year, I bought them again for my other machine.  

I think if I had a Bridgeport or similar I would opt for something better like the glass scales with the full display and other functions.

I think I have around $110-125 in all 3 DRO's.
Link Posted: 11/7/2016 3:35:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/7/2016 3:40:43 PM EST by KitchenCounsel]
Regarding this:





"Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent."





And this:





"If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower."





I can't remember how many times I've seen posts by people saying that you can only manufacture a firearm for personal use but that you can never sell it or give it away.





That's just not true under federal law. Note that under the provisions of 18 US Code §922 and elsewhere, the ATF has consistently held that "manufacture" is a legal term that for statutory purposes applies to those engaged in the business of, i.e. deriving "substantial income" from, the making/selling firearms. If you do it for your personal use or amusement you are not a "manufacturer" in terms of needing an FFL.





As to selling your DIY project, the underlying legal concept is called alienability of property:


"In property law, alienation is the capacity for a piece of property or a property right to be sold or otherwise transferred from one party to another."


This term is commonly used concerning real property, but also applies to personal property. So in this sense, your firearm is personal property and generally deemed to be alienable.




Also, while there are mandatory and specific labeling requirements for firearms manufacturers, there is no federal requirement for an individual to put any identifying marks whatsoever on a firearm made by that individual. The BATF points out that it is a good idea to put some kind of markings on the receiver, etc. so you can identify it if lost or stolen.





So, under federal law you most certainly can sell your personally-made firearm as long as you aren't doing it for a living or as a substantial part of your income.



Notes:

Be sure the firearm you make is something you may legally own; for example: no NFA weapons.

Be sure the person you give/sell it to may legally possess/own it, think 4473 questionnaire.

Be sure the buyer knows and understands that you, not a commercial manufacturer, built it and there's no guarantee etc. like there would be with a factory-made gun, and that the buyer assumes the risk therewith.





However heed this advice: "In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding..."

 
Link Posted: 11/7/2016 4:40:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/15/2016 11:43:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2016 11:44:43 PM EST by a1bigtuna]
I am finishing my 80% lower and just found out about the new law here in Kalifornaia requiring the lower to have a serial # (can be anything you want/make up) and several lines engraved on the sides.  And, then register it.  Prior builds have to do that as well.  Along with a new needed permit to buy ammo.  The permit I understand will last 5 years.  And, we have to, have to, give up any mag which holds more than 10 rds. Now causes me a little issue as I have an old S&W 4006 .40cal and it only came with 11 rd mags.  Yes they make 10 rd ones,  but that still ticks me off.  As long as it has a bullet button ya gotta have it with a serial #.
Link Posted: 11/16/2016 1:39:15 AM EST
Figure out a way to take your mag apart and put a plug in the bottom of it, so it will only hold 10 rounds..

I just ordered some 10 round AR mags that were CA compliant and all they were is 20 rounders with a preventer in them so I can only load 10 rounds in them and they say good to go for CA right on them.
Link Posted: 11/16/2016 12:31:23 PM EST
If one puts a round limiter in a mag, pretty sure it has to be permanent non removable item.  Not too sure how that can be done.
Link Posted: 11/16/2016 1:23:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2016 1:28:31 PM EST by DaveP1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By a1bigtuna:
If one puts a round limiter in a mag, pretty sure it has to be permanent non removable item.  Not too sure how that can be done.
View Quote


Not hard at all, you just have to use something to glue the limiter into the bottom of the mag so that it is not easily removable.

That said, you need to contact the agency that handles the the gun laws in the state and ask them, if they will accept modified magazines.
Link Posted: 11/22/2016 8:20:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By a1bigtuna:  If one puts a round limiter in a mag, pretty sure it has to be permanent non removable item.  Not too sure how that can be done.
View Quote


Superglue?
Link Posted: 11/24/2016 10:57:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 6:56:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/29/2016 6:57:20 PM EST by KitchenCounsel]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
I stand by my thoughts on the original post. If you start out with the INTENT of selling receivers you damn well better have a Type 07/Class II and be paying ITAR.





Over the years I've had to interact with Federal Prosecutors and I can tell you that they can be real SOB's. One other thought, defending yourself in a Federal Court will run North of $20K.



_________________________________________________





I think we're on the same page re intent, except that there's also the "in the business of" and "derive substantial income" to consider.


If you make a few lowers, keep one or two for your projects and sell a couple to your buddies or whatever, that's okay even if you were thinking about doing that beforehand.


OTOH, "intent" as you seem to mean it implies you're doing it just to make some bucks and in that case I agree you'll need the appropriate license.





As to the ITAR, it's a bit beyond the scope of this thread but the run-of-the-mill gunsmith or FFL is beyond the scope of the ITAR, which if you read the statutes, is specifically aimed at manufacurers/resellers who will be exporting "defense items" to other countries.


The empowering statute makes the intent clear, and the whole thing is under the purview of the State Department, which is not dealing with domestic sales.


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:





Originally Posted By KitchenCounsel:


Regarding this:





"Basically Federal law allows you to manufacture a firearm for your own use. If you manufacture for resale, you MUST have at the minimum a Type 07 FFL & pay ITAR. It MAY be legal for you to sell a completed Lower or give one away, a lot of this could/would be based on intent."





And this:





"If you do want to sell take everything off, sell the parts, and destroy the lower."





I can't remember how many times I've seen posts by people saying that you can only manufacture a firearm for personal use but that you can never sell it or give it away.





That's just not true under federal law. Note that under the provisions of 18 US Code §922 and elsewhere, the ATF has consistently held that "manufacture" is a legal term that for statutory purposes applies to those engaged in the business of, i.e. deriving "substantial income" from, the making/selling firearms. If you do it for your personal use or amusement you are not a "manufacturer" in terms of needing an FFL.





As to selling your DIY project, the underlying legal concept is called alienability of property:


"In property law, alienation is the capacity for a piece of property or a property right to be sold or otherwise transferred from one party to another."


This term is commonly used concerning real property, but also applies to personal property. So in this sense, your firearm is personal property and generally deemed to be alienable.





Also, while there are mandatory and specific labeling requirements for firearms manufacturers, there is no federal requirement for an individual to put any identifying marks whatsoever on a firearm made by that individual. The BATF points out that it is a good idea to put some kind of markings on the receiver, etc. so you can identify it if lost or stolen.





So, under federal law you most certainly can sell your personally-made firearm as long as you aren't doing it for a living or as a substantial part of your income.





Notes:


Be sure the firearm you make is something you may legally own; for example: no NFA weapons.


Be sure the person you give/sell it to may legally possess/own it, think 4473 questionnaire.


Be sure the buyer knows and understands that you, not a commercial manufacturer, built it and there's no guarantee etc. like there would be with a factory-made gun, and that the buyer assumes the risk therewith.





However heed this advice: "In addition, there MAY be State or Local laws prohibiting manufacturing of firearms. PLEASE check before proceeding..."  






I stand by my thoughts on the original post. If you start out with the INTENT of selling receivers you damn well better have a Type 07/Class II and be paying ITAR.





Over the years I've had to interact with Federal Prosecutors and I can tell you that they can be real SOB's. One other thought, defending yourself in a Federal Court will run North of $20K.



_________________________________________________





I think we're on the same page re intent, except that there's also the "in the business of" and "derive substantial income" to consider.


If you make a few lowers, keep one or two for your projects and sell a couple to your buddies or whatever, that's okay even if you were thinking about doing that beforehand.


OTOH, "intent" as you seem to mean it implies you're doing it just to make some bucks and in that case I agree you'll need the appropriate license.





As to the ITAR, it's a bit beyond the scope of this thread but the run-of-the-mill gunsmith or FFL is beyond the scope of the ITAR, which if you read the statutes, is specifically aimed at manufacurers/resellers who will be exporting "defense items" to other countries.


The empowering statute makes the intent clear, and the whole thing is under the purview of the State Department, which is not dealing with domestic sales.








 
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 8:41:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/29/2016 8:47:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:  B.A.T.F.E. has made it clear that ITAR MUST be paid if you are a Type 07 or a Class II.

It doesn't matter whether you export or not. I don't agree with the interpretation but BOTH B.A.T.F.E. & State Dept. agree that you must pay it.
View Quote


I think some of the ITAR fees should be in our sights under President Trump ahead of some other priorities.  I can live w/ 41f if I have to.
Link Posted: 12/1/2016 1:12:41 PM EST
Anyone know of any 80% lowers that leave the trigger well flashing intact, like Nodak does on their retro line?

William
Link Posted: 12/1/2016 1:29:09 PM EST
These guys.

They say they'll have more 80% lowers come early next year.

Link Posted: 12/4/2016 1:05:59 AM EST
http://astro.neutral.org/anodise.shtml

Some info about anodizing at home.  The writer is outside 'murica so all temperatures are in degrees Celsius 

I'm half tempted to take a stab at Type III at home this winter since the temps in my garage are regularly below freezing here
Link Posted: 12/8/2016 4:24:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2021 10:00:46 PM EST by j3_]
Getting ready to change into someone more comfortable. Name changes coming.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 4:39:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j3_:
Anyone tried one of these jigs yet?   http://www.5dtactical.com/
View Quote

Nope but it's an interesting evolution/spin off from the Modulus jig.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 4:59:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:49:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2021 10:01:02 PM EST by j3_]
Getting ready to change into someone more comfortable. Name changes coming.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 11:38:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 1:55:27 AM EST
For anybody interested, I found a company on ebay that is selling 3 piece iGaging DRO kits for $129.99 with free shipping and their latest technology digital readouts, mounting brackets, batteries, etc.

They consist of a 24", 12" and 6" scales and they can be cut down to fit the application you need them for, I will be using them on my Grizzly Mini Mill for doing lowers and am looking forward to doing a 0% in the near future.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 1:59:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 6:07:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


Thanks, I guess it's time to upgrade my Sieg X2D.  
View Quote


I have been reading up on their new digital read outs and they look like they are pretty good for the money, I am also looking at my option to install and app on a old Android tablet I have and then have all three on one tablet.

It will be fun, I think the building part is as fun as the finishing part, my wife hates that I like to tinker!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5337559805&toolId=10001&customId=iwl9g9z17g00zk8a00004&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F142023107663%3F_trksid%3Dp2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 4:48:21 PM EST
Update!!!!

Pursuit....

I highly recommend you picking one of these kits up as well as anyone else that is thinking this way, they are really nice DRO kits for the price and the shipping it quick!

I thought the displays would be small, but all three of them combined are quite large!

Good stuff in my opinion!
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 7:03:41 PM EST
Get them installed and start a thread with some action shots!

Post some install shots too.  I did a LOT of research before I installed mine.  Didn't find much back then tho.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top