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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 12:31:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I kinda dig the first one too. Laminated with a proper hole punched for a 550 lanyard.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 12:49:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARdvark:
This comes up quite often. Seems like best of the west in gatesville is a popular request. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARdvark:
Originally Posted By deuc224:
Is there a Texas mk12 shoot? Im in El Paso but would make the trip to meet up with some arfcomers to shoot the shyt.  This comes up quite often. Seems like best of the west in gatesville is a popular request. The other option was the CCCC out near Aggieland. There were some dudes on the Facebook group talking about trying to get the place reserved for it at some point. I'd be down, just need some more IMI 262. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 1:01:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mrsaturn7085]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
Is that for real???? 801.00 ????? Will people just bid like that then not pay just to be an ass? Does that happen on gunbroker? What did I miss about that? I ended up with 3 gen 1 ace stocks while I was hunting. One long and two short ones. I will dump all 3 for that kind of money if someone will really pay that. Holy shit that is crazy. I saw an mk18 RIS II in the EE for 750.00. Fuck retirement accounts I've got clone parts. This shit just blows me away. I'm starting to wonder what the BCM built SAM-R upper I bought for 1300.00 would bring. ...... honestly I probably would not sell any of my parts but the 800 for a gen 1 ace stock is really tempting. I know people catch shit for that here but DAM!!! I could have a good start on an mk11 by selling a few things.  ).
Building Mk 14 clones taught me a few things - if you don't buy discontinued items NOW, you may never have another chance. If you're going for a correct clone, go big or go home... otherwise be comfortable with just doing an 'inspired' clone. I've definitely paid a premium for rare parts in the past, but there are just as many items I've passed up and kicked myself for in retrospect due to increasing rarity or rising prices; a short list of what I've passed up, off the top of my head: Brand-new maritime-finish Mark 23 with original Camo case for $900 Brand-new Remington 700P in .338 Lapua for $800 L3 VSLIM for ~$2000 L3 AN/PSQ-23A for ~$900 L3 LA-5/PEQ for ~$2000 Remington M24 trigger w/NSN Insight WMX-200 (high-power model) SureFire FH556RC-1/2-28 (Four Prong) PRI Front Set-Screw Sight Eagle TAS-1 UMSS Sling The restricted lasers (2 seen at gun shows, 1 on eBay) scared me away for obvious reasons... but most of the others were just a matter of thinking they weren't worth the price at the time and thinking I'd have all the time in the world to pick them up later. Every single item I listed is now probably 2-3 times the price I saw it selling at (the PSQ-23A is probably worth $12-15k, alone). I also look at it this way - if you are looking for a rare part, you can do one of two things: 1. Spend a year or two looking and getting constantly outbid on auctions or missing posts in the EE by 10 seconds. Maybe you'll luck out at some point... maybe not. Devoting 15+ minutes daily to a search like this gets old fast. 2. Find a screenshot someone posted of their rifle showing a part you want, and make a ridiculous (above market-value) offer. Money talks; if you don't get too crazy, you've just effectively raised the market value. One of the last clone-correct parts I needed for a Mk 14 Mod 0 rifle was a set of Badger EBR rings in NSG. The black ones are easy to come by, but the NSG color hasn't been available in years. I offered a guy $250 for them which was well above fair at the time, and he sold them immediately. When I sold off all my M14 stuff, the rings were sold apart from the part lot at $600 (*maybe* 1.5 years after purchase). Sure the return wasn't as good as, say, buying a ton of machine guns prior to '86... but it wasn't a bad deal. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 1:24:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Like I said - I bid 800.00 thinking it would hit about 600.00 and I'd be able to just finish out the week long auction on cruise... if I had won, I would have paid (never underestimate an engineer with expensive hobbies on payday, haha). Hopefully whoever else bid the price up won't screw the seller over (because I already found another Gen 1 stock cheaper ).
Building Mk 14 clones taught me a few things - if you don't buy discontinued items NOW, you may never have another chance. If you're going for a correct clone, go big or go home... otherwise be comfortable with just doing an 'inspired' clone. I've definitely paid a premium for rare parts in the past, but there are just as many items I've passed up and kicked myself for in retrospect due to increasing rarity or rising prices; a short list of what I've passed up, off the top of my head: Brand-new maritime-finish Mark 23 with original Camo case for $900 Brand-new Remington 700P in .338 Lapua for $800 L3 VSLIM for ~$2000 L3 AN/PSQ-23A for ~$900 L3 LA-5/PEQ for ~$2000 Remington M24 trigger w/NSN Insight WMX-200 (high-power model) SureFire FH556RC-1/2-28 (Four Prong) PRI Front Set-Screw Sight Eagle TAS-1 UMSS Sling The restricted lasers (2 seen at gun shows, 1 on eBay) scared me away for obvious reasons... but most of the others were just a matter of thinking they weren't worth the price at the time and thinking I'd have all the time in the world to pick them up later. Every single item I listed is now probably 2-3 times the price I saw it selling at (the PSQ-23A is probably worth $12-15k, alone). I also look at it this way - if you are looking for a rare part, you can do one of two things: 1. Spend a year or two looking and getting constantly outbid on auctions or missing posts in the EE by 10 seconds. Maybe you'll luck out at some point... maybe not. Devoting 15+ minutes daily to a search like this gets old fast. 2. Find a screenshot someone posted of their rifle showing a part you want, and make a ridiculous (above market-value) offer. Money talks; if you don't get too crazy, you've just effectively raised the market value. One of the last clone-correct parts I needed for a Mk 14 Mod 0 rifle was a set of Badger EBR rings in NSG. The black ones are easy to come by, but the NSG color hasn't been available in years. I offered a guy $250 for them which was well above fair at the time, and he sold them immediately. When I sold off all my M14 stuff, the rings were sold apart from the part lot at $600 (*maybe* 1.5 years after purchase). Sure the return wasn't as good as, say, buying a ton of machine guns prior to '86... but it wasn't a bad deal. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 1:28:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
Where did you find the VSLIM at? I need one for a clone build! |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 1:35:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
Is that for real???? 801.00 ????? Will people just bid like that then not pay just to be an ass? Does that happen on gunbroker? What did I miss about that? I ended up with 3 gen 1 ace stocks while I was hunting. One long and two short ones. I will dump all 3 for that kind of money if someone will really pay that. Holy shit that is crazy. I saw an mk18 RIS II in the EE for 750.00. Fuck retirement accounts I've got clone parts. This shit just blows me away. I'm starting to wonder what the BCM built SAM-R upper I bought for 1300.00 would bring. ...... honestly I probably would not sell any of my parts but the 800 for a gen 1 ace stock is really tempting. I know people catch shit for that here but DAM!!! I could have a good start on an mk11 by selling a few things. Now to serious shit. Which of these 3 should we use as the ballistics card? First one is from the manual and I thought about having the moving target leads,mil-scale range and everything on page D-2 printed on the back. The second is the one from ballisticard. The third is the one someone posted a link to a page or two ago. I'm thinking 4x6 laminated cards. I held a 4x6 and a 8x6 card and 4x6 seemed good but what do y'all think? Sorry for the shitty screen shots but that's all I've got. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3155-166881.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3160-166889.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3149-166890.JPG |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 3:12:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86:
It's in Liberty Hill actually. The other option was the CCCC out near Aggieland. There were some dudes on the Facebook group talking about trying to get the place reserved for it at some point. I'd be down, just need some more IMI 262. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Took some time to read through Samson's scanned 0/1 manual.
What the actual FUCK. They used a wheel FSB, a Gen III handguard that had the scalloped handguard retaining collar, and what looks like a cut SPR-MOD sleeve on top to clear the handguard. I'm going to glean what I can for NSNs and usable text/images for the Early SPR manual. Hopefully we can get it finalized soon. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 4:28:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
I bet they are wondering what's going on. I emailed them this morning with pictures and got mine squared away. Parker gray is it. Dustin tried to explain the color and I just told him do whatever he thinks will look like the pics posted this am. I'm sure they know if they get several calls all of a sudden we must be talking about it. There is a long FF RAS in the EE right now $350 I would have scored it but I'm already on the "list" . I'm glad they are getting out again and putting a stop to the crazy prices. Edit-ironbalacava got it. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 4:41:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cbfurg]
[#10]
Public Service Announcement Leupolds in stock.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 4:43:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Lel. Nope. Nobody does that.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
On an incredibly funny note, towards the end of the call he mentioned he's always wanted to build a copy of the M4 he carried overseas. He said "We had the daniel defense rail that still had the front sight cutout and then we also had a short 10" upper that went along with it with a Daniel Defense rail. Do you know if those are possible to build or if anyone does that?" Lel. Nope. Nobody does that. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:05:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cbfurg:
Public Service Announcement Leupolds in stock. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:10:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By STXDobie:
I snagged one, thanks for the heads up! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By STXDobie:
Originally Posted By cbfurg:
Public Service Announcement Leupolds in stock. 
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:33:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Engineer5:
It must have been the only one in stock......  PM for details if you're not a member there if you're interested.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:36:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TinyCrumb:
I just put a brand new in box one up for trade in the Clone FB Group EE so you could get one even cheaper than that PM for details if you're not a member there if you're interested. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:49:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Would it be possible for someone to IM me the name of the clone group? I would like to join.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:01:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TinyCrumb:
I just put a brand new in box one up for trade in the Clone FB Group EE so you could get one even cheaper than that PM for details if you're not a member there if you're interested.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TinyCrumb:
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
It must have been the only one in stock...... PM for details if you're not a member there if you're interested. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:17:55 PM EDT
[#18]
My Mk12 Mod 1 is finally done. I started the build in the fall of 2014 with a NoDak Spud A1 receiver and finished it this week with a set of ARMS 22H NLS rings (thanks JJREA).
First photo of the finished rifle... 
I don't have the complete kit (case, sling, etc.), but I am happy to call it good. Now to finish Mk18 project I started a few months ago.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:25:06 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:38:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
I like the first picture. It would look extremely legit laminated |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:41:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doc_Lane:
My Mk12 Mod 1 is finally done. I started the build in the fall of 2014 with a NoDak Spud A1 receiver and finished it this week with a set of ARMS 22H NLS rings (thanks JJREA). First photo of the finished rifle... http://i.imgur.com/FZeDQyr.jpg I don't have the complete kit (case, sling, etc.), but I am happy to call it good. Now to finish Mk18 project I started a few months ago. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:51:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cbfurg:
Killer dude. I'm waiting on my can and mine will be done. Just sent in the paperwork to SBR a lower for the mk18 and finish that build up. You've got good taste my friend! Hopefully you don't have to wait much longer on the can. I bought mine February 2015, as the pre-41F rush was beginning, and got the stamp in late October. I submitted an Efile Form 1 for my Colt 6920 lower in early July for my Mk18 build. The stamp should be back for that in the next two or three weeks, hopefully. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 6:55:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doc_Lane:
Thanks! Hopefully you don't have to wait much longer on the can. I bought mine February 2015, as the pre-41F rush was beginning, and got the stamp in late October. I submitted an Efile Form 1 for my Colt 6920 lower in early July for my Mk18 build. The stamp should be back for that in the next two or three weeks, hopefully. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 7:12:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad4wd:
I second the first one, what is going on with the headers creeping to the right? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad4wd:
Originally Posted By aaron580:
I like the first picture. It would look extremely legit laminated I'm thinking the first one too just for the fact that's what was most likely issued. Although ballisticards are issued too It just seems like the one in the manual was correct. I have nothing to base that on. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 7:13:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doc_Lane:
My Mk12 Mod 1 is finally done. I started the build in the fall of 2014 with a NoDak Spud A1 receiver and finished it this week with a set of ARMS 22H NLS rings (thanks JJREA). First photo of the finished rifle... http://i.imgur.com/FZeDQyr.jpg I don't have the complete kit (case, sling, etc.), but I am happy to call it good. Now to finish Mk18 project I started a few months ago. |
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VT, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 8:21:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
Yes, and for mod 0 and mod H abs all issued rifles using an ops The next part for my build is the barrel. I realize Douglas is the official clone, but how do these stack up against the other? Bartlien, krieger, WOA, BA, rainier are all on the radar, with WOA in the lead. Are the Douglas barrels noticeably better for the price? Sorry if this has been covered, I've been watching this thread for a while and have searched a bunch, but not quantitative analysis and this I trust this groups opinion. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 8:39:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FunkyChicken207:
Thanks for clearing that up for me. The next part for my build is the barrel. I realize Douglas is the official clone, but how do these stack up against the other? Bartlien, krieger, WOA, BA, rainier are all on the radar, with WOA in the lead. Are the Douglas barrels noticeably better for the price? Sorry if this has been covered, I've been watching this thread for a while and have searched a bunch, but not quantitative analysis and this I trust this groups opinion. All of the barrels will be close and your paying for tenths near the top of your list. All of them are fine no ones going to check your barrels credintiels so get the one that fits you; if all you shoot is groups is go on the higher end, if your like me and mostly slap steel any on your list will do. Also check out green mountain and bison armory (may only have the 16" in the correct profile). This is all what I have noticed first hand with these brands and barrels |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 8:40:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FunkyChicken207:
The next part for my build is the barrel. I realize Douglas is the official clone, but how do these stack up against the other? Bartlien, krieger, WOA, BA, rainier are all on the radar, with WOA in the lead. Are the Douglas barrels noticeably better for the price? Sorry if this has been covered, I've been watching this thread for a while and have searched a bunch, but not quantitative analysis and this I trust this groups opinion. A better shooter than me (Marine sniper instructor) said my Krieger was better but said he didn't think he could consistently prove it. Especially after he shot a sub MOA 500 yard group (!!!) using the Douglas with a Nightforce NS 3.5-15X50. This guy is incredibly good. His shooting with irons at 500 yards is unbelievable. My best barrel for bench rest accuracy is my 16" Krieger Recon. Light profile! The Douglas has shown exemplary accuracy, cold, hot, dirty or clean. And like the Krieger, it particularly likes MK 262 ammo over 223 loads. All the above were used with OPS 12th suppressors. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 9:18:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edwin907:
It's a very rare day when I can tell any difference between my Douglas and Krieger SPR barrels. A better shooter than me (Marine sniper instructor) said my Krieger was better but said he didn't think he could consistently prove it. Especially after he shot a sub MOA 500 yard group (!!!) using the Douglas with a Nightforce NS 3.5-15X50. This guy is incredibly good. His shooting with irons at 500 yards is unbelievable. My best barrel for bench rest accuracy is my 16" Krieger Recon. Light profile! The Douglas has shown exemplary accuracy, cold, hot, dirty or clean. And like the Krieger, it particularly likes MK 262 ammo over 223 loads. All the above were used with OPS 12th suppressors. |
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VT, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 9:26:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks Edwin. Good info.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 9:39:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
If this gets set up give a shout on on here, I'm not part of the Facebook group. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
It's in Liberty Hill actually. The other option was the CCCC out near Aggieland. There were some dudes on the Facebook group talking about trying to get the place reserved for it at some point. I'd be down, just need some more IMI 262. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 9:59:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: aaron580]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOk so my kit just has 5.56mm printed with the cage code.... time to go clone retard, which cleaning kit is more correct??!?!
Would update a picture, but the photobucket app has gone full fucktard tonight so |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:32:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doc_Lane:
My Mk12 Mod 1 is finally done. I started the build in the fall of 2014 with a NoDak Spud A1 receiver and finished it this week with a set of ARMS 22H NLS rings (thanks JJREA). First photo of the finished rifle... http://i.imgur.com/FZeDQyr.jpg I don't have the complete kit (case, sling, etc.), but I am happy to call it good. Now to finish Mk18 project I started a few months ago. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:35:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83]
[#34]
spending 3 hours a day for weeks at a time to get a stock for $120 literally IS the clone game. paying $800 for a stock is funny. like me laughing at whoever paid that for a stock that can be found for 250 or less.
i just wish people would hold off and in turn it would keep the prices inside the atmosphere. ithen again, i have 2500 into a rifle that i would laugh at if someone paid 2500 for an ar15. who the fuck DOES THA....oh. oh wait, this guy did that. lol. #clonewars #donthatetheclonehatethegame |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:55:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chenault]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83:
spending 3 hours a day for weeks at a time to get a stock for $120 literally IS the clone game. paying $800 for a stock is funny. like me laughing at whoever paid that for a stock that can be found for 250 or less. i just wish people would hold off and in turn it would keep the prices inside the atmosphere. ithen again, i have 2500 into a rifle that i would laugh at if someone paid 2500 for an ar15. who the fuck DOES THA....oh. oh wait, this guy did that. lol. #clonewars #donthatetheclonehatethegame I'm afraid the days of pushing refresh a 100 times a day to find a part may be ending and the era of deep pockets beginning. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:57:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Doc_Lane:
My Mk12 Mod 1 is finally done. I started the build in the fall of 2014 with a NoDak Spud A1 receiver and finished it this week with a set of ARMS 22H NLS rings (thanks JJREA). First photo of the finished rifle... http://i.imgur.com/FZeDQyr.jpg I don't have the complete kit (case, sling, etc.), but I am happy to call it good. Now to finish Mk18 project I started a few months ago. Oh, and by the way, some of that money was well spent on some stuff for my HD rifle. I bought a DD rear 1.5 sight today and some magpul ranger plates for magpul mags. You know something, we have Amazon prime and I was buying some vitamins for the wife, and I looked up the DD sights on there. One of the suppliers was Primary Arms. I was going to buy it from them anyways. But I got free shipping through Amazon. So I just saved some money. (although the price was 1.15 cents more on Amazon) The downside is I was in kind of a hurry and bought a sling loop that I thought was a magpul one but ended up being some no name brand. "Green Blob Outdoors". I was like, ugh. It said FOR a magpul MS1 stock. 10 bucks.... LOL. I think I might still be able to use it. We'll see. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2017 11:22:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FunkyChicken207:
Thanks Edwin. Good info. Funny, after being so pleased with my Krieger , I was actually worried about the Douglas when I bought it. The Krieger was broken in for me, the Douglas not, 30 rounds later you couldn't tell them apart. For what it's worth, the unfired Krieger Recon 16" needed about 120+ rounds to get "right". vanquishing, I'll check on the ARMS #22H non lever stops, I think I have a pair from 2005. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2017 12:00:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edwin907:
vanquishing, I'll check on the ARMS #22H non lever stops, I think I have a pair from 2005. |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 12:11:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edwin907:
You're quite welcome. Funny, after being so pleased with my Krieger , I was actually worried about the Douglas when I bought it. The Krieger was broken in for me, the Douglas not, 30 rounds later you couldn't tell them apart. For what it's worth, the unfired Krieger Recon 16" needed about 120+ rounds to get "right". vanquishing, I'll check on the ARMS #22H non lever stops, I think I have a pair from 2005. I was thinking about a Bartlein for my build, but then I realized the BA is mostly indistinguishable from the Douglas tier stuff. Went Douglas just for spec #clonesurvivor. If you have those rings, I will propose to you. But also give you money, too. |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 12:15:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
Ok so my kit just has 5.56mm printed with the cage code.... time to go clone retard, which cleaning kit is more correct??!?!
Would update a picture, but the photobucket app has gone full fucktard tonight so Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aaron580:
Would update a picture, but the photobucket app has gone full fucktard tonight so |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 3:12:16 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 3/17/2017 3:29:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86:
Who sees what's wrong with this picture? https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3755/33330554102_da1f2f10de_o.jpgEndcap by LanceCriminal86, on Flickr |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 4:21:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SecretSquirell:
'Tis but a scratch Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SecretSquirell:
Originally Posted By lancecriminal86:
Who sees what's wrong with this picture? https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3755/33330554102_da1f2f10de_o.jpgEndcap by LanceCriminal86, on Flickr
I would be concerned. I'm interested in what others will say about it. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2017 4:31:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: reswob]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @krg_ops:
Throwback Thursday! Diyala Province, Iraq circa 2007. #krg_ops #mk12mod0 #kineticresearchgroup #krgthrowbackthursday #oif 
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Posted: 3/17/2017 6:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Regulatori]
[#45]
This might end up on page 800 so figure I'll post a pic.
I had to do a group shot of my MK12 and my new purchase. Both are tack drivers but the M24 is on a different level. 5 shot groups look like a slightly larger ragged 45 ACP hole. Had to add a mole skin pad because the original camo wrap was ripping out my beard. 
Waiting for my AEM5 is killing me. 
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2017 6:59:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
I'm afraid the days of pushing refresh a 100 times a day to find a part may be ending and the era of deep pockets beginning.
Last summer things were easy to come by, nowadays it's kinda nuts. |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 7:41:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Regulatori:
Waiting for my AEM5 is killing me.
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Posted: 3/17/2017 7:46:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Samson-Dogg]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86:
Who sees what's wrong with this picture? https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3755/33330554102_da1f2f10de_o.jpgEndcap by LanceCriminal86, on Flickr Something obviously went wrong there. How many rounds through that barrel? I'm curious what caused that. I would not worry about it as far as the damaged end cap goes but I would be worried about what caused it. |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 8:39:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Regulatori:
This might end up on page 800 so figure I'll post a pic. I had to do a group shot of my MK12 and my new purchase. Both are tack drivers but the M24 is on a different level. 5 shot groups look like a slightly larger ragged 45 ACP hole. Had to add a mole skin pad because the original camo wrap was ripping out my beard.
Waiting for my AEM5 is killing me. http://i.imgur.com/6iic1x0.jpg |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2017 8:49:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86:
Who sees what's wrong with this picture? https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3755/33330554102_da1f2f10de_o.jpgEndcap by LanceCriminal86, on Flickr ive had 3 endcap strikes since 2012 on my 5.56 can. 2 needed service. its always shitty to see. it makes me want a .30 aem5 if i did it. |
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