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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0: The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. View Quote * * * * * * * * * * The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792 * * * * * * * * * * As of 16 May 2024, Ron Allen is still making custom parts for his suppressors: View Quote * * * * * * * * * * Attached File |
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MACV-SOG nut.
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Originally Posted By K_weez:
How about some PRS Gas Gun Club Match Mk12 action http://i.imgur.com/g7t2gEe.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/qAEVV8C.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/tmFMK0c.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/sSlWykJ.png http://i.imgur.com/QxEdeNz.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/qQM881w.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/dEZNRWa.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/jD5Dcb4.jpg?1 View Quote Far out, how'd you do? |
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http://www.amazon.com/Gentle-Propositions-J-S-Economos/dp/0615997635
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Originally Posted By K_weez:
How about some PRS Gas Gun Club Match Mk12 action http://i.imgur.com/g7t2gEe.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/qAEVV8C.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/tmFMK0c.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/sSlWykJ.png http://i.imgur.com/QxEdeNz.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/qQM881w.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/dEZNRWa.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/jD5Dcb4.jpg?1 View Quote That's badass. I want to do a PRS match with my Mk12. How'd you fare against the bigger caliber rifles? |
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Dean Winchester wishes he was this cool
MD, USA
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Originally Posted By UsubM:
That's badass. I want to do a PRS match with my Mk12. How'd you fare against the bigger caliber rifles? View Quote I'd like to do one too but there's not a ton of info (like cost) on the site. I don't want to waste my time and theirs filling out their survey (and giving a known personal-data-collector-and-reseller like constant contact a bunch of info THEY don't need) just to find out it's way more than I can put down right now for a "just for fun" kinda experience... Next year I suppose. |
Cunnilingus aside, that is fucking awesome.
--secretwheelman Perfection can't be achieved from inside the rattle can. --RTUtah |
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Pretty sure shipping was 40. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
212 and 256. plus 20 to ship. 212 isnt crazy bad but they beat to fuck and i can get one for 200 new and cut it out myself. oh well Pretty sure shipping was 40. Shipping was $24.25. |
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Dean Winchester wishes he was this cool
MD, USA
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Originally Posted By STXDobie:
Beat to crap but the legit real deal and that's what this clone game is all about. Sorry for bumping your max, I am assuming you were doing the same back. I snagged one of the two, just need the bore guide now and and I'll have the complete contents. View Quote anybody going to clue the rest of us in since apparently they sold anyway? |
Cunnilingus aside, that is fucking awesome.
--secretwheelman Perfection can't be achieved from inside the rattle can. --RTUtah |
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Dean Winchester wishes he was this cool
MD, USA
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Cunnilingus aside, that is fucking awesome.
--secretwheelman Perfection can't be achieved from inside the rattle can. --RTUtah |
Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
I'd like to do one too but there's not a ton of info (like cost) on the site. I don't want to waste my time and theirs filling out their survey (and giving a known personal-data-collector-and-reseller like constant contact a bunch of info THEY don't need) just to find out it's way more than I can put down right now for a "just for fun" kinda experience... Next year I suppose. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Originally Posted By UsubM:
That's badass. I want to do a PRS match with my Mk12. How'd you fare against the bigger caliber rifles? I'd like to do one too but there's not a ton of info (like cost) on the site. I don't want to waste my time and theirs filling out their survey (and giving a known personal-data-collector-and-reseller like constant contact a bunch of info THEY don't need) just to find out it's way more than I can put down right now for a "just for fun" kinda experience... Next year I suppose. K_weez, great pictures, there was supposed to be two national level PRS has gun matches here in WA, but one got cancelled, I will have to wait till August since I will be gone for the only other one close to me is in Idaho. But I may end just shooting it in some of the bolt gun matches. ArmedFerret, you don't have to be an actual member of the PRS to shoot any of the matches, you can always just look on the website and see if any of the matches are close to you. It's a $100 for PRS membership, but the matches are all run indepently, it really depends if it's a local or national level match with regards to match entry fee. Our local matches usually run about $50, a two day PRS bolt/gas gun match about $200. |
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Originally Posted By STXDobie:
Shipping was $24.25. View Quote Must have auto-calculated based on location. I was seeing $40 - I actually tried to snipe the good one @ $300 but got an eBay error page. Whoever ended up winning the good one can thank eBay for it As much as I wanted to hold out for a Mod 0 foam arrangement, the foam quality was good enough on this one that I was willing to spend the ~$100 premium to just be done with the daily eBay searches. |
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Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Must have auto-calculated based on location. I was seeing $40 - I actually tried to snipe the good one @ $300 but got an eBay error page. Whoever ended up winning the good one can thank eBay for it As much as I wanted to hold out for a Mod 0 foam arrangement, the foam quality was good enough on this one that I was willing to spend the ~$100 premium to just be done with the daily eBay searches. View Quote The foam condition was the same on both, one just had an extra cut out in the lid for some additional accessory that the end user deemed necessary to have its own spot in the case. To me that cutout looked like it was for the Harris Bipod but who knows. Either way both were definitely heavily used, regardless I am happy with my purchase and glad that I don't have to look for one any longer. |
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Dean Winchester wishes he was this cool
MD, USA
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Originally Posted By tamboi:
K_weez, great pictures, there was supposed to be two national level PRS has gun matches here in WA, but one got cancelled, I will have to wait till August since I will be gone for the only other one close to me is in Idaho. But I may end just shooting it in some of the bolt gun matches. ArmedFerret, you don't have to be an actual member of the PRS to shoot any of the matches, you can always just look on the website and see if any of the matches are close to you. It's a $100 for PRS membership, but the matches are all run indepently, it really depends if it's a local or national level match with regards to match entry fee. Our local matches usually run about $50, a two day PRS bolt/gas gun match about $200. View Quote Thanks man. Sadly the only one remotely close to me is in WV which is a goodly haul and would easily become 4 days of leave rather than just a weekend trip that didn't result in losing leave. Maybe next year they'll have one at Bridgeville (haha yeah right, those guys are pricks) |
Cunnilingus aside, that is fucking awesome.
--secretwheelman Perfection can't be achieved from inside the rattle can. --RTUtah |
As of today all manuals are mailed that I've recieved payment for. Please let me know if I made any mistakes. Wrong manual or labels or anything. If you wanted labels and I accidentally left yours out let me know I'll send them. I think I got them all though. Still getting a count on the other items. Should have an ETA on logs in a couple days. I'm working with the printer on the Ballistic cards. I will post some ideas later today to see what everyone thinks.
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WTB:
URX II for SR-25(7.62) carbine length. A.R.M.S #36 swan sleeve-PEQ-2 or MOD with no notches for gen 3 PRI tube |
Movistar's upper is in the ee.....we need to keep that one in the family. Sorry it's gotta go man....I would take it from you if I wasn't in the middle of a block 2 build.
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Originally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
As of today all manuals are mailed that I've recieved payment for. Please let me know if I made any mistakes. Wrong manual or labels or anything. If you wanted labels and I accidentally left yours out let me know I'll send them. I think I got them all though. Still getting a count on the other items. Should have an ETA on logs in a couple days. I'm working with the printer on the Ballistic cards. I will post some ideas later today to see what everyone thinks. View Quote Thanks for doing this, looking forward to seeing this manual. |
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PSALMS 144-1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to warre, and my fingers to fight:
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Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Good luck everyone else... Gen 1 ACE SOCOM ...I ducked out once it hit $800. View Quote Wow! |
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-Things do not happen. Things are made to happen. -JFK
-Beware the fury of a patient man. -Thousands and thousands of laws....All for just ten commandments. -"alot" is not a word. |
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Good luck everyone else... Gen 1 ACE SOCOM ...I ducked out once it hit $800. View Quote That's insane. Kind of seems based upon the description that the seller had no idea what he had. |
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Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Good luck everyone else... Gen 1 ACE SOCOM ...I ducked out once it hit $800. View Quote Haha....I was going to watch it towards the end but I guess I don't have to worry about it now. I guess there's a lot of people getting into clones lately that have extremely deep pockets |
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Geno! What the heck! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By aaron580:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/627101708 Ouch Geno! What the heck! I knew that he was the one...I watch his parts auctions pretty closely. |
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"I'll tell you what war is about, you've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough they stop fighting." GEN Curtis LeMay
"Someday this war's gonna end..." LTC William Kilgore |
Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Haha....I was going to watch it towards the end but I guess I don't have to worry about it now. I guess there's a lot of people getting into clones lately that have extremely deep pockets View Quote Crazy stuff, at some point it is just going to be easier (and cheaper) to have someone make/modify these types of parts. |
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Originally Posted By KOBK:
Crazy stuff, at some point it is just going to be easier (and cheaper) to have someone make/modify these types of parts. View Quote Right!? I hate to say it but I think we may be approaching that point. Who's the best machinist in the thread? I say we establish that then we all pitch in to get the machinery up and tuning and we just start making our own stuff....haha....I'm only half joking |
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Haha....I was going to watch it towards the end but I guess I don't have to worry about it now. I guess there's a lot of people getting into clones lately that have extremely deep pockets View Quote Honestly this hobby for some guys is really nothing as far as money goes (not that I am one of those guys lol) If you want to see what real money (IMO) is (or get scared) start looking at pricing on Cars and Parts for early Ford or Chrysler Hemi / Wedge Super Stock parts...or for just a basic Cobra Jet or 440 Six-Pack car...some of the hoods go for more than one of the original SF Group Mod0 uppers just sold for (and there is like what a dozen of those floating around?). Its the same for offshore boats, large sailboats, Cup car racing, Airplanes etc...In the big picture, dropping 3K to 5K is nothing for a lot of these dudes...plus they do not want to 'hunt' it...they see it..they buy it. |
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" Clone threads are full of dudes with sharp wit, pleasant demeanor, boyish good looks, and big swinging Richards " StealthGuy
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Originally Posted By KOBK:
Crazy stuff, at some point it is just going to be easier (and cheaper) to have someone make/modify these types of parts. View Quote I have been saying that for awhile now...This industry is getting to be in the same boat as automotive restoration...when all the good original parts dry up your only option is aftermarket / reproduction (and for the most part those parts are not as nice) |
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" Clone threads are full of dudes with sharp wit, pleasant demeanor, boyish good looks, and big swinging Richards " StealthGuy
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Originally Posted By Mad4wd:
Honestly this hobby for some guys is really nothing as far as money goes (not that I am one of those guys lol) If you want to see what real money (IMO) is (or get scared) start looking at pricing on Cars and Parts for early Ford or Chrysler Hemi / Wedge Super Stock parts...or for just a basic Cobra Jet or 440 Six-Pack car...some of the hoods go for more than one of the original SF Group Mod0 uppers just sold for (and there is like what a dozen of those floating around?). Its the same for offshore boats, large sailboats, Cup car racing, Airplanes etc...In the big picture, dropping 3K to 5K is nothing for a lot of these dudes...plus they do not want to 'hunt' it...they see it..they buy it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Mad4wd:
Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Haha....I was going to watch it towards the end but I guess I don't have to worry about it now. I guess there's a lot of people getting into clones lately that have extremely deep pockets Honestly this hobby for some guys is really nothing as far as money goes (not that I am one of those guys lol) If you want to see what real money (IMO) is (or get scared) start looking at pricing on Cars and Parts for early Ford or Chrysler Hemi / Wedge Super Stock parts...or for just a basic Cobra Jet or 440 Six-Pack car...some of the hoods go for more than one of the original SF Group Mod0 uppers just sold for (and there is like what a dozen of those floating around?). Its the same for offshore boats, large sailboats, Cup car racing, Airplanes etc...In the big picture, dropping 3K to 5K is nothing for a lot of these dudes...plus they do not want to 'hunt' it...they see it..they buy it. Oh when it comes to hobbies there is no arguing this is probably one of the cheaper(ish) of them....not to say it cheap bc it isn't....lol. It's just crazy how insane prices have been getting over the past few months. When the well dries up...and it will eventually....there's no telling what prices will shoot to. |
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Originally Posted By Mad4wd:
Honestly this hobby for some guys is really nothing as far as money goes (not that I am one of those guys lol) If you want to see what real money (IMO) is (or get scared) start looking at pricing on Cars and Parts for early Ford or Chrysler Hemi / Wedge Super Stock parts...or for just a basic Cobra Jet or 440 Six-Pack car...some of the hoods go for more than one of the original SF Group Mod0 uppers just sold for (and there is like what a dozen of those floating around?). Its the same for offshore boats, large sailboats, Cup car racing, Airplanes etc...In the big picture, dropping 3K to 5K is nothing for a lot of these dudes...plus they do not want to 'hunt' it...they see it..they buy it. View Quote Having recently dropped $8k on a gear-set for a rally car, I can relate. Guns are an expensive hobby, but there's always something worse. AR-15's aren't even that bad compared to other guns - when I sold my M14/M1A and some spare parts, it sold for ~$10k and I was taking a significant loss when smith labor was factored in. I really wanted to cap out at $600 for that Mod H stock, but I saw 'screw it' and bid $800 just so I wouldn't have to come back for a week... my bid lasted 5 minutes. I backed off on my Mod 0 and started a Mod H build due to the rarity and rising cost of a set-screw front sight... so much for that cost-saving idea, I guess. |
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Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Oh when it comes to hobbies there is no arguing this is probably one of the cheaper(ish) of them....not to say it cheap bc it isn't....lol. It's just crazy how insane prices have been getting over the past few months. When the well dries up...and it will eventually....there's no telling what prices will shoot to. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Originally Posted By Mad4wd:
Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Haha....I was going to watch it towards the end but I guess I don't have to worry about it now. I guess there's a lot of people getting into clones lately that have extremely deep pockets Honestly this hobby for some guys is really nothing as far as money goes (not that I am one of those guys lol) If you want to see what real money (IMO) is (or get scared) start looking at pricing on Cars and Parts for early Ford or Chrysler Hemi / Wedge Super Stock parts...or for just a basic Cobra Jet or 440 Six-Pack car...some of the hoods go for more than one of the original SF Group Mod0 uppers just sold for (and there is like what a dozen of those floating around?). Its the same for offshore boats, large sailboats, Cup car racing, Airplanes etc...In the big picture, dropping 3K to 5K is nothing for a lot of these dudes...plus they do not want to 'hunt' it...they see it..they buy it. Oh when it comes to hobbies there is no arguing this is probably one of the cheaper(ish) of them....not to say it cheap bc it isn't....lol. It's just crazy how insane prices have been getting over the past few months. When the well dries up...and it will eventually....there's no telling what prices will shoot to. I never thought that I would see these prices. 800 for a stock! At these prices I'm half tempted to sell mine and throw some fingers to the air. I've got other expensive gun hobbies! Attached File |
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Originally Posted By ArpaioFan:
Those bore guides are expensive, I wouldn't call the clone market .00000001% (I didn't count zeros in your post). I would bet that less than 2 out of 10 AR owners have one of the JP bore guides. If it wasn't clone correct, I wouldn't buy the damn thing...I'd go with Dewey where the OWNER of the company responded to my email questions. View Quote I bought one in97 when they were one of a few. Don't let it fall on your foot. Don't ask me how I know. Dan |
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Sheep, Sheepdog or Wolf? What are you?
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Got a nice little toy in the mail from HCS today... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272939/17349612-10104825766397410-2615872264610702054-o-166504.JPG View Quote That's great man! Congrats! Cool to see he's installing long collars on them now too. |
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Got a nice little toy in the mail from HCS today... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272939/17349612-10104825766397410-2615872264610702054-o-166504.JPG View Quote Complete upper from HCS? Congrats!!! I got my barrel and brake/collar from him today, can't wait for the rest of my parts to show. |
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work of art
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Got a nice little toy in the mail from HCS today... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272939/17349612-10104825766397410-2615872264610702054-o-166504.JPG View Quote |
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Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
That's great man! Congrats! Cool to see he's installing long collars on them now too. View Quote Yep I am too. I ordered a collar/brake from him for my recce and it was the SPR collar so I was hopeful he would use that on this rifle. Got the PEQ-2A mounted. Leupold MR/T is off getting M5 dials put on...yes, you read that right. It can be done now. Now, someone sell me some NLS #22H's for this beauty! Attached File |
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Got a nice little toy in the mail from HCS today... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272939/17349612-10104825766397410-2615872264610702054-o-166504.JPG View Quote Seeing this makes me wanna keep my mod1 upper now |
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i shortened a gen 1 rifle socom to a carbine. not too hard of a job. someone in here is rocking it now :). you just gotta know where and how to thread and put dat angle in there ;).
my socom was $120....but $800........man id almost sell mine for that but it took me a year to find the right price so nahhhhhh haha. |
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Yep I am too. I ordered a collar/brake from him for my recce and it was the SPR collar so I was hopeful he would use that on this rifle. Got the PEQ-2A mounted. Leupold MR/T is off getting M5 dials put on...yes, you read that right. It can be done now. Now, someone sell me some NLS #22H's for this beauty! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272939/2017-03-15-14-166578.JPG View Quote Congrats! Mines taking a licking and keeps on ticking, he makes a solid upper |
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Originally Posted By chenault:
I never thought that I would see these prices. 800 for a stock! At these prices I'm half tempted to sell mine and throw some fingers to the air. I've got other expensive gun hobbies! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340785/IMG-1231-166464.JPG View Quote One word for you: |
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Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Far out, how'd you do? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By UsubM:
That's badass. I want to do a PRS match with my Mk12. How'd you fare against the bigger caliber rifles? Given that it was a match geared towards larger caliber guns (1000yrd+ targets, a 500yrd spinner/popper combo) it did amazing. I came in middle of the pack. Beating out 6mm/6.5mm bolt guns felt good Best stage for me was reaching out to 1014yrds off a roof pitch and hitting a man sized IPSC target repeatedly. This gun is no joke with 77gr SMK's. Originally Posted By tamboi:
K_weez, great pictures, there was supposed to be two national level PRS has gun matches here in WA, but one got cancelled, I will have to wait till August since I will be gone for the only other one close to me is in Idaho. But I may end just shooting it in some of the bolt gun matches. ArmedFerret, you don't have to be an actual member of the PRS to shoot any of the matches, you can always just look on the website and see if any of the matches are close to you. It's a $100 for PRS membership, but the matches are all run indepently, it really depends if it's a local or national level match with regards to match entry fee. Our local matches usually run about $50, a two day PRS bolt/gas gun match about $200. Thanks buddy. I was planning on doing the WA PRS GG match shooting tac light with my mk12. Do you know which match got cancelled, the bolt gun or the gas gun? I signed up for the Idaho MGM match as well. A buddy and I will be driving out and plan on shooting tac light there. I'm trying to find a partner to go to the Colorado match because I really want to go just not by myself. I'm really excited for this series. I shot my bolt gun 2 years ago. Hopefully we could meet up at one of these matches. |
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Originally Posted By STXDobie:
That's insane. Kind of seems based upon the description that the seller had no idea what he had. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By STXDobie:
Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Good luck everyone else... Gen 1 ACE SOCOM ...I ducked out once it hit $800. That's insane. Kind of seems based upon the description that the seller had no idea what he had. Agree, seems like he just thought he was selling a run of the mill stock for $80 or so... bet he is happy :). |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
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Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085:
Good luck everyone else... Gen 1 ACE SOCOM ...I ducked out once it hit $800. View Quote Well that's it, stupidest fucking thing I'll see all day. Its a stock ffs. How do you tell a "Gen 1" ace from the others again? I seem to remember a thread page on it. |
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Is there a Texas mk12 shoot? Im in El Paso but would make the trip to meet up with some arfcomers to shoot the shyt.
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If this ever comes up would someone be kind enough to shoot me a IM. I need a road trip to get away from work for a while.
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Originally Posted By aaron580:
Well that's it, stupidest fucking thing I'll see all day. Its a stock ffs. How do you tell a "Gen 1" ace from the others again? I seem to remember a thread page on it. View Quote Page 1 of the Holland thread has pictures showing the difference; I'm a visual person |
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Is that for real???? 801.00 ????? Will people just bid like that then not pay just to be an ass? Does that happen on gunbroker? What did I miss about that? I ended up with 3 gen 1 ace stocks while I was hunting. One long and two short ones. I will dump all 3 for that kind of money if someone will really pay that. Holy shit that is crazy. I saw an mk18 RIS II in the EE for 750.00. Fuck retirement accounts I've got clone parts. This shit just blows me away. I'm starting to wonder what the BCM built SAM-R upper I bought for 1300.00 would bring. ...... honestly I probably would not sell any of my parts but the 800 for a gen 1 ace stock is really tempting. I know people catch shit for that here but DAM!!! I could have a good start on an mk11 by selling a few things.
Now to serious shit. Which of these 3 should we use as the ballistics card? First one is from the manual and I thought about having the moving target leads,mil-scale range and everything on page D-2 printed on the back. The second is the one from ballisticard. The third is the one someone posted a link to a page or two ago. I'm thinking 4x6 laminated cards. I held a 4x6 and a 8x6 card and 4x6 seemed good but what do y'all think? Sorry for the shitty screen shots but that's all I've got. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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WTB:
URX II for SR-25(7.62) carbine length. A.R.M.S #36 swan sleeve-PEQ-2 or MOD with no notches for gen 3 PRI tube |
I like the first picture. It would look extremely legit laminated
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