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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0: The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. * * * * * * * * * * The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792 * * * * * * * * * * As of 16 May 2024, Ron Allen is still making custom parts for his suppressors: * * * * * * * * * *  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 3:35:42 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 3/9/2017 5:24:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
Gun-kote matte grey is the correct finish. You can buy an aerosol can from brownells that's an exact match Well guys, just spoke with CLE(have a Douglas 416 SS SPR barrel being turned from a blank), they do offer 2 other DuraCoat finishes besides black-"Parker Gray" and "German Flecktarn Gray". They stated the "Parker Gray" finish is very close to the CRANE speced, Gun-Kote matte gray finish, so I had my finish changed accordingly. Turn around time for Bbls. is around 3-4 weeks. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 5:28:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Previously-mentioned KAC rails are first-batch sold out, but the gentleman tells me he's picking up more within the next couple days. If you want a rail, I'd get in touch with him ASAP to get on his list. ETA: If you're going to buy one to flip it for 2-3x retail, the enthusiast in me has a heartwarming invitation for you to self-fornicate immediately. Yep, on that list and impatiently waiting. I'm a KAC dealer and I can't get my hands on one otherwise at the moment. I did speak with KAC/Lawmen's and the good news is another run is in the works. Looking at 4-8 months. 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 5:28:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samson-Dogg]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Well guys, just spoke with CLE(have a Douglas 416 SS SPR barrel being turned from a blank), they do offer 2 other DuraCoat finishes besides black-"Parker Gray" and "German Flecktarn Gray". They stated the "Parker Gray" finish is very close to the CRANE speced, Gun-Kote matte gray finish, so I had my finish changed accordingly. Turn around time for Bbls. is around 3-4 weeks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Originally Posted By chenault:
Gun-kote matte grey is the correct finish. You can buy an aerosol can from brownells that's an exact match Well guys, just spoke with CLE(have a Douglas 416 SS SPR barrel being turned from a blank), they do offer 2 other DuraCoat finishes besides black-"Parker Gray" and "German Flecktarn Gray". They stated the "Parker Gray" finish is very close to the CRANE speced, Gun-Kote matte gray finish, so I had my finish changed accordingly. Turn around time for Bbls. is around 3-4 weeks. I bet they are wondering what's going on. I emailed them this morning with pictures and got mine squared away. Parker gray is it. Dustin tried to explain the color and I just told him do whatever he thinks will look like the pics posted this am. I'm sure they know if they get several calls all of a sudden we must be talking about it. There is a long FF RAS in the EE right now $350 I would have scored it but I'm already on the "list" . I'm glad they are getting out again and putting a stop to the crazy prices. Edit-ironbalacava got it. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 5:36:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: IronBalaclava]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
I bet they are wondering what's going on. I emailed them this morning with pictures and got mine squared away. Parker gray is it. Dustin tried to explain the color and I just told him do whatever he thinks will look like the pics posted this am. I'm sure they know if they get several calls all of a sudden we must be talking about it. There is a long FF RAS in the EE right now $350 I would have scored it but I'm already on the "list" . I'm glad they are getting out again and putting a stop to the crazy prices. Lol, They said I wasn't the first one to ask about this today! As for the FF RAS in the EE.....................MINE. Thanks, Bro. 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 7:07:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenLantern:
So you're pissed because a company won't cater to 0.000001% of the consumer market for a custom request? Those bore guides are expensive, I wouldn't call the clone market .00000001% (I didn't count zeros in your post). I would bet that less than 2 out of 10 AR owners have one of the JP bore guides. If it wasn't clone correct, I wouldn't buy the damn thing...I'd go with Dewey where the OWNER of the company responded to my email questions. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 7:48:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 44Echo10]
[#7]
 
I sure wish this matte gray KG Gun Kote information had been on page one when I was getting my parts together. I ASS-U-ME-D the barrels in all the pics had simply been spray painted while getting their camo jobs. It might also be a good idea to add the Pelican cases and contents info, along with pics of the different style foam cut outs. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 7:57:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Anyone snag a brownells A1 lower? I see they are on sale but out of stock... did they get them in an sell out? Because I got 4 different emails on the notification list for when they are back in.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:12:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prskiller:
Mod 1 and Mod H https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1465-162300.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1466-162302.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1467-162304.JPG Awesome camo! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:19:05 PM EDT
[#10]
And who is this individual?
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:22:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samson-Dogg]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArpaioFan:
Those bore guides are expensive, I wouldn't call the clone market .00000001% (I didn't count zeros in your post). I would bet that less than 2 out of 10 AR owners have one of the JP bore guides. If it wasn't clone correct, I wouldn't buy the damn thing...I'd go with Dewey where the OWNER of the company responded to my email questions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArpaioFan:
Originally Posted By GreenLantern:
So you're pissed because a company won't cater to 0.000001% of the consumer market for a custom request? Those bore guides are expensive, I wouldn't call the clone market .00000001% (I didn't count zeros in your post). I would bet that less than 2 out of 10 AR owners have one of the JP bore guides. If it wasn't clone correct, I wouldn't buy the damn thing...I'd go with Dewey where the OWNER of the company responded to my email questions. My thoughts exactly. 20-30 bore guides in one order is probably more than some of their dealers buy at a time. Even colt,Troy and Daniel defense have recognized how the clone and retro market is growing. I see reference to this exact thread in many many magazines,videos and other media. It was totally the guys attitude. I asked a question. He could have just said I'm sorry but we can't do it and I wouldn't have thought a thing. He chose to be a dick instead. So too bad. I found the bore guides. The guy has 40 of them. They are 30.00 each in the raw. I'm negotiating now with him about buying bulk and I'm waiting to hear if he can anodize them black. 44echo10- I would not loose sleep over it. My other 3 barrels are black and if they had already coated my barrel it would have been black too. Does anyone have access to the usmc round count log. It looks like the one in the picture. It's not for shot data it just logs round count and maintainence I believe. I will keep working on the bore guides and I will have the black hills Ballistic data cards made.  Attached File Attached FileA guy was selling them on here but it was 4 years ago. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:36:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
I got one of the kac ff ras from said dealer as a late valentines day gift for my girlfriend.ive got her building he own. I watch over but she knows how to do everything. And who is this said dealer? |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:44:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Well guys, just spoke with CLE(have a Douglas 416 SS SPR barrel being turned from a blank), they do offer 2 other DuraCoat finishes besides black-"Parker Gray" and "German Flecktarn Gray". They stated the "Parker Gray" finish is very close to the CRANE speced, Gun-Kote matte gray finish, so I had my finish changed accordingly. Turn around time for Bbls. is around 3-4 weeks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Originally Posted By chenault:
Gun-kote matte grey is the correct finish. You can buy an aerosol can from brownells that's an exact match Well guys, just spoke with CLE(have a Douglas 416 SS SPR barrel being turned from a blank), they do offer 2 other DuraCoat finishes besides black-"Parker Gray" and "German Flecktarn Gray". They stated the "Parker Gray" finish is very close to the CRANE speced, Gun-Kote matte gray finish, so I had my finish changed accordingly. Turn around time for Bbls. is around 3-4 weeks. Here is my Douglass Barrel'd MK12, what's not painted is definitely grey... 
Here's a pre-paint pic actually... 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dobs013:
I would put at least one in and let the other ride the barrel. The jigs are only like 30 bucks and it takes like 5 mins. At least if you put one in under the gas port the block won't go anywhere. ETA - I have a jig you could use if you need one....wouldn't mind letting you borrow it. Thank you for the offer I might have to take you up on it. Have to buy a gas block first. 
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 8:54:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Will be ordering the last few parts for my Mod 1 tonight
 The Harris BRM-S is the correct bipod, right? I know these questions about parts are annoying... The specific model isn't outlined in the OP. I haven't seen the specific model identified during the copious amount of reading I've done while building my rifle, so I thought I'd ask.
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:11:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CoilCrafter:
Will be ordering the last few parts for my Mod 1 tonight The Harris BRM-S is the correct bipod, right? I know these questions about parts are annoying... The specific model isn't outlined in the OP. I haven't seen the specific model identified during the copious amount of reading I've done while building my rifle, so I thought I'd ask.That be the one... 6-9 for bench, 9-13 for field. I think 9-13 is the correct one technically for cloning, but it's a pain to bench with, but for field use it's fine. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:15:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prskiller:
Mod 1 and Mod H https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1465-162300.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1466-162302.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1467-162304.JPG Badger block on hcs barrel mod 1? Front screw not going all the way in....
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:18:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By prskiller:
Mod 1 and Mod H https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1465-162300.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1466-162302.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356129/IMG-1467-162304.JPG Looking good dude. We have similar taste :D 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:24:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmedFerret]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah:
That's a great question. I'd wager 2004?  With respect, when someone asks a great question, the following must accompany one's response. Great Question! (i don't want to get in trubble for meme-ing in a tech-like thread, so i'm just leaving it like that and not putting the img tags or anything. click it if you want to see a funny; if you don't want to see an OT funny then don't click it. fair enough?) |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:36:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K_weez:
Looking good dude. We have similar taste :D http://i.imgur.com/ygcb9DV.jpg?2 http://i.imgur.com/5je1wen.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/klw4HvH.jpg?1 That Holland makes me feel all tingly in my man parts |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 10:13:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
With respect, when someone asks a great question, the following must accompany one's response. Great Question! (i don't want to get in trubble for meme-ing in a tech-like thread, so i'm just leaving it like that and not putting the img tags or anything. click it if you want to see a funny; if you don't want to see an OT funny then don't click it. fair enough?) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
That's a great question. I'd wager 2004? With respect, when someone asks a great question, the following must accompany one's response. Great Question! (i don't want to get in trubble for meme-ing in a tech-like thread, so i'm just leaving it like that and not putting the img tags or anything. click it if you want to see a funny; if you don't want to see an OT funny then don't click it. fair enough?) I wanna lol but I don't know who that feller is.
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Posted: 3/9/2017 10:34:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 78Staff:
Here is my Douglass Barrel'd MK12, what's not painted is definitely grey... http://i.imgur.com/wG0SH7u.jpg Here's a pre-paint pic actually... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/385949/IMG-6594-zps7ic75iit-162510.jpg Your muzzle brake is upside down
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Posted: 3/9/2017 10:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: IronBalaclava]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 78Staff:
Here is my Douglass Barrel'd MK12, what's not painted is definitely grey... http://i.imgur.com/wG0SH7u.jpg Here's a pre-paint pic actually... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/385949/IMG-6594-zps7ic75iit-162510.jpg  Perfect.
You ain't making this wait any easier............................... The second pic, interesting GB/Tube placement, how's that working out?
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:04:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenLantern:
So you're pissed because a company won't cater to 0.000001% of the consumer market for a custom request? Honestly...pulling parts off the pile before they go to anodize is not a 'custom' request by a long shot lol. It doesn't matter to me...if I want it that bad I will just copy it. It's 6061 or 7075 round stock that has OD and ID work and some O-rings...meh.....really the thoughts going thru my head (as I am thinking along these lines) are cloning SF 556-RC (I can work around the current patent) SAM-R gas blocks...really things that are more complicated than doing dimple pins, moderators and such that you are used to seeing in the retro forum. The only thing that really currently appeals to me is possibly bulk buying 80% forged receiver blanks...then putting them on a multi-axis machine and re-profiling them to be A1's (read: quickly), then glass bead (or vibro deburr) and basically doing it at a level that no one has to wait if they want a 80% A1... |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:16:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mad4wd:
Honestly...pulling parts off the pile before they go to anodize is not a 'custom' request by a long shot lol. It doesn't matter to me...if I want it that bad I will just copy it. It's 6061 or 7075 round stock that has OD and ID work and some O-rings...meh.....really the thoughts going thru my head (as I am thinking along these lines) are cloning SF 556-RC (I can work around the current patent) SAM-R gas blocks...really things that are more complicated than doing dimple pins, moderators and such that you are used to seeing in the retro forum. The only thing that really currently appeals to me is possibly bulk buying 80% forged receiver blanks...then putting them on a multi-axis machine and re-profiling them to be A1's (read: quickly), then glass bead (or vibro deburr) and basically doing it at a level that no one has to wait if they want a 80% A1... I like your idea. Do you have access to machine that can do that? I guess stupid question but........
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:20:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 78Staff:
That be the one... 6-9 for bench, 9-13 for field. I think 9-13 is the correct one technically for cloning, but it's a pain to bench with, but for field use it's fine. The 6-9 one is the correct one |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:21:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 78Staff:
Here is my Douglass Barrel'd MK12, what's not painted is definitely grey... http://i.imgur.com/wG0SH7u.jpg Here's a pre-paint pic actually... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/385949/IMG-6594-zps7ic75iit-162510.jpg Douglas sells barrels to lots of distributors, I think HCS has them do the coating on the ones they buy that was just like what was done for Crane |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:43:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 78Staff:
That be the one... 6-9 for bench, 9-13 for field. I think 9-13 is the correct one technically for cloning, but it's a pain to bench with, but for field use it's fine. I agree. Tried a 9-13 for about a day once, couldn't hang. Horrible for most applications. And don't even think about going prone with it. 6-9 is correct. Notched or not is personal preferece. I can't understand why the notched is as popular as it is. I'll be a BRS guy until I die. 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:50:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/9/2017 11:59:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
Found that pic from Crane https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340785/TaxiHTH-162687.JPG great pic. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:14:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
great pic. Hey man I got my MK12 manual in today, fantastic! |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:33:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mad4wd]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chenault:
Found that pic from Crane https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340785/TaxiHTH-162687.JPG That's cool all sitting with flats milled....on a positive note I feel better now that I have an official Crane Nupla hammer clone (Gen1 of course :) ) in my toolbox. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:36:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
My thoughts exactly. 20-30 bore guides in one order is probably more than some of their dealers buy at a time. Even colt,Troy and Daniel defense have recognized how the clone and retro market is growing. I see reference to this exact thread in many many magazines,videos and other media. It was totally the guys attitude. I asked a question. He could have just said I'm sorry but we can't do it and I wouldn't have thought a thing. He chose to be a dick instead. So too bad. I found the bore guides. The guy has 40 of them. They are 30.00 each in the raw. I'm negotiating now with him about buying bulk and I'm waiting to hear if he can anodize them black. 44echo10- I would not loose sleep over it. My other 3 barrels are black and if they had already coated my barrel it would have been black too. Does anyone have access to the usmc round count log. It looks like the one in the picture. It's not for shot data it just logs round count and maintainence I believe. I will keep working on the bore guides and I will have the black hills Ballistic data cards made. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3136-162495.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3138-162500.JPG A guy was selling them on here but it was 4 years ago. I have the exact same thing, but it's not USMC marked. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 2:44:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
The 6-9 one is the correct one Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By 78Staff:
That be the one... 6-9 for bench, 9-13 for field. I think 9-13 is the correct one technically for cloning, but it's a pain to bench with, but for field use it's fine. The 6-9 one is the correct one My bad, just seems like you see a lot of 9-13 in ITW pics for some reason... Def prefer the 6-9 though :). |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 2:46:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IronBalaclava:
Perfect.
You ain't making this wait any easier............................... The second pic, interesting GB/Tube placement, how's that working out? LOL had me going for a sec, I was rushing back to the pic to see what the deal was :). |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 10:04:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Hey guys I don't know if this would be helpful to any of you guys or if they were even used on mod 1's or not, but, predator tactical mrds mounts got mentioned in the block 2 thread and since I was planning on running an acog on my block 2 I liked the idea of running offset vs mounting on the acog itself. Anyway, I emailed predator tactical to see if they had nos or demos laying around they didn't need anymore(bc unicorn parts and all) and I got a reply from them saying that as of this week gen 2 mrds offset mounts will be available for purchase again direct from them. I ordered one at 3 in the morning and had tracking info 20mins later. So if you are looking for a predator mount they are out there again!
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:18:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TinyCrumb]
[#37]
Sorry for the grainy pic, but here's a shot of a Holland doing overwatch in Iraq. Spent an hour on the phone yesterday with the guy that carried this and got some awesome stories (including on this mission) and more details about the guns. A lot more pics to come soon!
Just a couple details from the call that we sort of already knew but were interesting nonetheless: 1) In Iraq, they loved them because of the urban environment. They had SR-25s (M110s hadn't been fielded with them yet) but the SPRs were so much handier and everything else they had was a huge bolt gun. So for the engagements they were facing in the urban environments of Iraq the SPRs were an EASY favorite. 2) In Afganistan, there were a few areas where they ended up where because of the tree lines, the engagements really weren't further than 300-400yds. So they'd be near a field, have a 300yd field of view, but then need to move to the next field to see the next 300yds. So again, the SPR proved to be the perfect carry gun. A lot of them just decided to carry the SPR instead of their M4s since it was just as light and with the match ammo they felt way more confident in hits at that distance. This explains the pic we have of the S&B short dot on it without the can. Pretty cool! Anyway, a lot more pics and info to come soon. On an incredibly funny note, towards the end of the call he mentioned he's always wanted to build a copy of the M4 he carried overseas. He said "We had the daniel defense rail that still had the front sight cutout and then we also had a short 10" upper that went along with it with a Daniel Defense rail. Do you know if those are possible to build or if anyone does that?" I couldn't stop laughing and told him he had no idea haha and to say goodbye to his wallet. 
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:32:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TinyCrumb:
On an incredibly funny note, towards the end of the call he mentioned he's always wanted to build a copy of the M4 he carried overseas. He said "We had the daniel defense rail that still had the front sight cutout and then we also had a short 10" upper that went along with it with a Daniel Defense rail. Do you know if those are possible to build or if anyone does that?" Lel. Nope. Nobody does that.
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:49:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Samson-Dogg]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dobs013:
Hey guys I don't know if this would be helpful to any of you guys or if they were even used on mod 1's or not, but, predator tactical mrds mounts got mentioned in the block 2 thread and since I was planning on running an acog on my block 2 I liked the idea of running offset vs mounting on the acog itself. Anyway, I emailed predator tactical to see if they had nos or demos laying around they didn't need anymore(bc unicorn parts and all) and I got a reply from them saying that as of this week gen 2 mrds offset mounts will be available for purchase again direct from them. I ordered one at 3 in the morning and had tracking info 20mins later. So if you are looking for a predator mount they are out there again! I guess email them directly? Their store is under development. FYI-All manuals are spoken for. If anyone backs out I'll post up but as of now all are spoken for. We went through over 100 mod 1 and mod 0/1 manuals. I will be mailing 8-10 more today and then I have to move sat and Sunday so I won't get anymore out until Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I should have all of them out by the end of next week. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 12:50:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TinyCrumb:
Sorry for the grainy pic, but here's a shot of a Holland doing overwatch in Iraq. Spent an hour on the phone yesterday with the guy that carried this and got some awesome stories (including on this mission) and more details about the guns. A lot more pics to come soon!
Just a couple details from the call that we sort of already knew but were interesting nonetheless: 1) In Iraq, they loved them because of the urban environment. They had SR-25s (M110s hadn't been fielded with them yet) but the SPRs were so much handier and everything else they had was a huge bolt gun. So for the engagements they were facing in the urban environments of Iraq the SPRs were an EASY favorite. 2) In Afganistan, there were a few areas where they ended up where because of the tree lines, the engagements really weren't further than 300-400yds. So they'd be near a field, have a 300yd field of view, but then need to move to the next field to see the next 300yds. So again, the SPR proved to be the perfect carry gun. A lot of them just decided to carry the SPR instead of their M4s since it was just as light and with the match ammo they felt way more confident in hits at that distance. This explains the pic we have of the S&B short dot on it without the can. Pretty cool! Anyway, a lot more pics and info to come soon. On an incredibly funny note, towards the end of the call he mentioned he's always wanted to build a copy of the M4 he carried overseas. He said "We had the daniel defense rail that still had the front sight cutout and then we also had a short 10" upper that went along with it with a Daniel Defense rail. Do you know if those are possible to build or if anyone does that?" I couldn't stop laughing and told him he had no idea haha and to say goodbye to his wallet. http://i.imgur.com/hGn9rnN.jpg Good stuff thanks for posting |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:04:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjwwd2:
Douglas sells barrels to lots of distributors, I think HCS has them do the coating on the ones they buy that was just like what was done for Crane The Douglas barrels that Monte and Kevin were selling were Douglas blanks, but the connection ends there. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it was Gene Barnett who contoured, cut the chamber and installed the extension, stands to reason his shop also coated them. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:17:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
I guess email them directly? Their store is under development. FYI-All manuals are spoken for. If anyone backs out I'll post up but as of now all are spoken for. We went through over 100 mod 1 and mod 0/1 manuals. I will be mailing 8-10 more today and then I have to move sat and Sunday so I won't get anymore out until Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I should have all of them out by the end of next week. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
Originally Posted By Dobs013:
Hey guys I don't know if this would be helpful to any of you guys or if they were even used on mod 1's or not, but, predator tactical mrds mounts got mentioned in the block 2 thread and since I was planning on running an acog on my block 2 I liked the idea of running offset vs mounting on the acog itself. Anyway, I emailed predator tactical to see if they had nos or demos laying around they didn't need anymore(bc unicorn parts and all) and I got a reply from them saying that as of this week gen 2 mrds offset mounts will be available for purchase again direct from them. I ordered one at 3 in the morning and had tracking info 20mins later. So if you are looking for a predator mount they are out there again! I guess email them directly? Their store is under development. FYI-All manuals are spoken for. If anyone backs out I'll post up but as of now all are spoken for. We went through over 100 mod 1 and mod 0/1 manuals. I will be mailing 8-10 more today and then I have to move sat and Sunday so I won't get anymore out until Tuesday or Wednesday next week. I should have all of them out by the end of next week. Replied to your email sir! |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:23:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dejavu]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
With respect, when someone asks a great question, the following must accompany one's response. Great Question! (i don't want to get in trubble for meme-ing in a tech-like thread, so i'm just leaving it like that and not putting the img tags or anything. click it if you want to see a funny; if you don't want to see an OT funny then don't click it. fair enough?) This is what I get when I click it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:28:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dejavu:
This is what I get when I click it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/259499/IMG-0085-162888.JPG Fuckin photobucket. Sorry. That's their bullshit ads they're covered in now. I'm in the process of moving stuff to my flickr but that one hasn't gotten migrated yet. 
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Fuckin photobucket. Sorry. That's their bullshit ads they're covered in now. I'm in the process of moving stuff to my flickr but that one hasn't gotten migrated yet. No worries, I didn't realize it was photobucket. |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 1:58:16 PM EDT
[#46]
I am building up a MOD1 and I am on the fence for the scope.
I'm leaning to the 2.5-10x42 NXS in a LT104 mount, I want to use this for coyote hunting in TX. I want it to be clone correct but at the same time have the optic for my needs. Anyone currently using a x24 with the Mil-R reticle |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 2:55:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Samson-Dogg:
My thoughts exactly. 20-30 bore guides in one order is probably more than some of their dealers buy at a time. Even colt,Troy and Daniel defense have recognized how the clone and retro market is growing. I see reference to this exact thread in many many magazines,videos and other media. It was totally the guys attitude. I asked a question. He could have just said I'm sorry but we can't do it and I wouldn't have thought a thing. He chose to be a dick instead. So too bad. I found the bore guides. The guy has 40 of them. They are 30.00 each in the raw. I'm negotiating now with him about buying bulk and I'm waiting to hear if he can anodize them black. 44echo10- I would not loose sleep over it. My other 3 barrels are black and if they had already coated my barrel it would have been black too. Does anyone have access to the usmc round count log. It looks like the one in the picture. It's not for shot data it just logs round count and maintainence I believe. I will keep working on the bore guides and I will have the black hills Ballistic data cards made. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3136-162495.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/330914/IMG-3138-162500.JPG A guy was selling them on here but it was 4 years ago. Hey! Those are my round count logs
I have no idea where they came from |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 2:57:57 PM EDT
[#48]
These are legit pics. Your eyes are not deceiving you.
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Posted: 3/10/2017 3:05:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HARMS4X:
I am building up a MOD1 and I am on the fence for the scope. I'm leaning to the 2.5-10x42 NXS in a LT104 mount, I want to use this for coyote hunting in TX. I want it to be clone correct but at the same time have the optic for my needs. Anyone currently using a x24 with the Mil-R reticle I have one on my recce and I think it looks great, using the Mil-R as well. I have another for sale as well |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 3:10:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86:
These are legit pics. Your eyes are not deceiving you. http://i.imgur.com/h2cYbgw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/etOLwjG.jpg Do tell more. |
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