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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:45:39 PM EDT
[#1]
This really isn't about state rights, though, because as long as it's illegal according to the federal government, you can't hold certain jobs, you technically still can't buy a gun, and many employers are still within their rights for firing you for failing a piss test.
The federal government has to decriminalize it, then the states can decide whether it's legal within their borders to buy, sell, and possess. I'm sure the taxes will be comparable to liquor and cigarettes, and no one's gonna come off hurting. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#2]
If Fed.gov to decide to enforce it, you realize where they'll start?
They already have a list of CA gun owners....they simply need to cross reference it with dispensary membership lists... |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:47:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many would absolutely love to be able to take cards but the banks can't/won't do business with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These are all cash businesses correct? Probably quite a bit of federal tax evasion going on as well. Many would absolutely love to be able to take cards but the banks can't/won't do business with them. You would be surprised at the level of sophistication that goes into tracking it from seed to sale here in WA. Any cannabis that was grown legally cannot just simply disappear, they will want to know where it went and if you would like to keep your license and facility running you better have an answer. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:52:20 PM EDT
[#4]
The states obviously care more about tax dollars than the health and wellbeing of their citizens. But I doubt they've factored in the cost of healthcare and substance abuse they're going to be facing in the future by promoting drug use.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:55:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will I plead the Tenth hold up in court? Nope, unless the court wants to risk collapsing the entire edifice of laws and regulations that flow from the Interstate Commerce Clause. Not that that would necessarily be a BAD thing. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 2:57:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's going to be a losing fight for the Feds. Only if the ICC gets cut off at the knees. This will be an interesting fight if it goes to court especially when some liberal judge tries to find away around preserving state pot laws without decapitating the ICC which is what most of the Feds and by extension liberal's power is built on. Of course the Feds could always just make federal funding contingent on repealing pot laws. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:00:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Commerce Clause according to the courts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Agreed. 10th Amendment, no constitutional basis for the feds to regulate it. Commerce Clause according to the courts. Yet another load of commie bullshit that needs to be struck down. "You grew too much wheat to feed your livestock that meant you wouldn't buy wheat that may or may not have been grown in another state, therefore INTERSTATE COMMERCE!" |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:06:05 PM EDT
[#8]
It IS illegal. Shut it down. THEN, let Trump legalize it along side tobacco under the ATF and have the big tobacco companies handle it.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:07:13 PM EDT
[#9]
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Aren't there bigger things the fed gov't should worry about right now? Not really. Idiots funding Drug Lords is criminal so no big deal with throwing the rats in prison or deporting them. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:07:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally, I don't care either way on this issue...but if your are driven to become politically active in order to gain access to a substance,to get high, your life must be fairly sad and empty. Let's go over this one more time. Remember when people were getting "Obama money" from the stimulus package? Remember "Obama phones"? Well Francis, it was taxpayers money. And now it's still taxpayers money and not Trumps' money. The so called war on drugs is being fought with TAXPAYERS money and has always been a waste of money. Marijuana has become a cash cow for Mexican and South American cartels. It's that way because the fed refuses to let the states make their own decisions. There are frameworks in place and working, that minimize the involvement of cartels. The Oregon "seed to sale" program is an example. Other than allowing private individuals to grow a few plants for personal use, everything is reported, tracked, tested, and taxed. And the taxes and enforcement costs are born by the businesses and users. It's TAXPAYERS money an we all need to get politically involved to stop out of control spending and get on with the rest of the business that needs to be taken care of. And in case the cave you live in doesn't have access to the real world, it's easy to get hold of pot whether it's legal or not. People have been getting high for decades. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:07:23 PM EDT
[#11]
I would like to think it's a not so oblique approach to the "sanctuary" bullshit.
I'm worried that it just might be the GOP snatching defeat from the jaws of victory kind of deal though. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:07:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet another load of commie bullshit that needs to be struck down. "You grew too much wheat to feed your livestock that meant you wouldn't buy wheat that may or may not have been grown in another state, therefore INTERSTATE COMMERCE!" Probably one of the most damaging SCOTUS rulings to our rights in history. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:08:39 PM EDT
[#13]
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It will drive the pot head democrats to the polls leading to a crushing defeat for the republicans. I say legalize it so the dems cannot use it as a wedge issue. In fact tie the law into the hearing protection act and repeal of nfa. It would definitely be nice if we could somehow get the pro gun, and pro weed guys more aligned. We could have a lot more freedom for everybody. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:12:33 PM EDT
[#14]
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The states obviously care more about tax dollars than the health and wellbeing of their citizens. But I doubt they've factored in the cost of healthcare and substance abuse they're going to be facing in the future by promoting drug use. Do you think alcohol should be illegal? |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:19:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok Devil's Advocate a little bit here. (Full Disclosure Pot Should never have been Schedule 1 imo) However, where is the line? Would cocaine be ok? Heroin? PCP? Meth? Should those be state regulated as well? Is pot illegal because the FDA says it is or is it called out in the law specifically as being illegal? If it's the FDA alone it seems like a simple fix, if it's congressional that would require congress to fix it. Do we really want the bullshit we saw from Obama being done by Pres. Trump where the imperial President gets to violate their sacred oath to enforce the laws of the United States? And even a more full disclosure, I think most drugs should be legal to take if desired in the most pure form available.  I figure a month or so after we let them take as much, as often as they want the drug problem will be reduced by 90%.cocaine based medicines were widely used for a long time. I think you can still get some, you can still get opiates as well, i dunno about pcp and there are other amphetamines available. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:22:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Well I'm a taxpayer and I pay my taxes to protect my family from shit stain drug dealers, drug hustlers, etc. So far as I'm concerned the government hasn't met their quotas for some time. More in prison, deported or in the cemetery, I don't care so long as they never ever come close to my children.Those that object to that are clearly on the wrong side.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:23:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This really isn't about state rights, though, because as long as it's illegal according to the federal government, you can't hold certain jobs, you technically still can't buy a gun, and many employers are still within their rights for firing you for failing a piss test. The federal government has to decriminalize it, then the states can decide whether it's legal within their borders to buy, sell, and possess. I'm sure the taxes will be comparable to liquor and cigarettes, and no one's gonna come off hurting. It's an issue of impairment and obeying laws. Urinalysis and breathalyzer tests for drug detection cover more than just marijuana. Those laws concerning impairment while in the workplace or while in a position to affect public safety will, or should, stand. You're right, get rid of the legal issue and it comes down to what everyone accepts as acceptable behavior at work or when in a position to affect public safety. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:28:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The states obviously care more about tax dollars than the health and wellbeing of their citizens. But I doubt they've factored in the cost of healthcare and substance abuse they're going to be facing in the future by promoting drug use. 
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:37:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The states obviously care more about tax dollars than the health and wellbeing of their citizens. But I doubt they've factored in the cost of healthcare and substance abuse they're going to be facing in the future by promoting drug use. I think you're grossly overestimating the ratio of people who currently use pot vs the number that would if it were legal. I sincerely doubt you would see more than a 10-15% increase in usage. The stuff is readily available everywhere and has been since the 70's. The only difference here is whether the state gets a cut to fund things like health care, education and roads or if Pablo Cartello gets 100% of the money and continues to murder people to ensure that his trade routes remain open. The WOD has been the most expensive boondoggle in US history. Usage rates have basically remained static for 50 years. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:38:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Dude...
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:40:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an issue of impairment and obeying laws. Urinalysis and breathalyzer tests for drug detection cover more than just marijuana. Those laws concerning impairment while in the workplace or while in a position to affect public safety will, or should, stand. You're right, get rid of the legal issue and it comes down to what everyone accepts as acceptable behavior at work or when in a position to affect public safety. Yes, exposing infants to drugs is a brilliant idea after all Obamacare will pay for their mental health damage right? |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:43:35 PM EDT
[#22]
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Yes, exposing infants to drugs is a brilliant idea after all Obamacare will pay for their mental health damage right? What? Who's recommending that pregnant women smoke or drink while pregnant. Perhaps I missed it somewhere.... |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:47:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Either enforce the law or change it. At the current time it's a schedule 1 drug and should be treated as such.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:49:02 PM EDT
[#24]
I think there is a bit of a problem for the federal government and MJ.
1. They maintain it is a schedule 1 drug ( no benefit to its use) 2. President Trump has said he thinks there is a benefit to medical MJ. (He has a track record of sticking to his word) 3. AG Sessions says enforce the law. 4. If the Feds don't enforce medical MJ and enforce recreation MJ there is a equal protection under the law problem. Please feel free to correct me if I have something wrong. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:54:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either enforce the law or change it. At the current time it's a schedule 1 drug and should be treated as such. It's absurd that it is a schedule 1 drug. What I'd like to see result from this situation is an adult conversation about the limits of regulatory power and precisely why it is dangerous to vest so much of it in Washington DC as law for everybody. But that's never going to happen because a state like California is loaded to the gills with motherfuckers who want to regulate the fuck out of everyone else in the name of whatever do-gooder bullshit they come up with. They still want to have a say in how everybody else lives their lives while they're smoking pot. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:54:47 PM EDT
[#26]
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MJ is against federal law. If congress doesn't want the Justice Department enforcing the law they need to change it. Otherwise it's the Justice Departments job to enforce the law and crack down on MJ. The Feds can de-schedule it without Congress. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 3:57:47 PM EDT
[#27]
FJS!
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:09:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Feds can de-schedule it without Congress. Yes, a lot of liberals are actually pissed at the Obama administration for not doing more to reschedule it. Instead he just ignored the federal laws and left legal mj in a state of limbo. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:12:13 PM EDT
[#29]
It's still a state's rights issue - along with about 10,000 other things that the federal government interferes with.
Likewise there's thousands of things the states impose on their subjects in violation of the federal constitution. The way it works is whatever suppresses the most amount of liberty wins. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:13:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pot was decriminalized in my state for anything under a half ounce, which is like a parking ticket. A guy just recently got a ticket for a roach in his ashtray ( what is left if you smoke a joint) and after paying his fine the state stepped in and took his registered AW AR15. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:13:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are all cash businesses correct? Probably quite a bit of federal tax evasion going on as well. Correct just like dozens of other industries. If the federal government were to allow the states to regulate the sales the banks which are federally regulated could handle the funds. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:14:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The states obviously care more about tax dollars than the health and wellbeing of their citizens. But I doubt they've factored in the cost of healthcare and substance abuse they're going to be facing in the future by promoting drug use. Chances are, it will be cheaper than all the costs of enforcement. Cops, Courts and Prisons are not cheap. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:15:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if the ICC gets cut off at the knees. This will be an interesting fight if it goes to court especially when some liberal judge tries to find away around preserving state pot laws without decapitating the ICC which is what most of the Feds and by extension liberal's power is built on. Of course the Feds could always just make federal funding contingent on repealing pot laws. Politics. Not law. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:16:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Deschedule, put a low tax on it($10/lb area) and let the states decide.
We have better things to worry about. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:16:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Sounds like taxing marijuana can pay for The Wall™.
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:19:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would be surprised at the level of sophistication that goes into tracking it from seed to sale here in WA. Any cannabis that was grown legally cannot just simply disappear, they will want to know where it went and if you would like to keep your license and facility running you better have an answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
<strong>Quoted:</strong>
<strong>Quoted:</strong>
These are all cash businesses correct? Probably quite a bit of federal tax evasion going on as well. Many would absolutely love to be able to take cards but the banks can't/won't do business with them. You would be surprised at the level of sophistication that goes into tracking it from seed to sale here in WA. Any cannabis that was grown legally cannot just simply disappear, they will want to know where it went and if you would like to keep your license and facility running you better have an answer. And it is irrelevant to this discussion anyways. The potential for tax evasion should not even be considered when determining whether or not something should be legal. First off, commerce doesn't exist for the purpose of generating tax revenue. Second off, any goods that can be sold under the table could also be made illegal using this argument. Third, you are going to get far greater tax compliance from legal dispensaries with something to lose than you could ever dream of getting from a drug cartel. It's a completely ridiculous argument. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:21:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like taxing marijuana can pay for The Wall™. the estimated cost for the wall is ruffly 1 day worth of federal government spending. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:21:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Where in the Constitution does it allow the federal government to regulate the sales of items produced and sold within a state at all?
Mine copy still says that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people and the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. The powers I find enumerated for the federal government are: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; To establish Post Offices and post Roads; To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations; To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. Sorry but there's just not much mention of too many drug control laws in there. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:26:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Commerce Clause according to the courts. The law is an ass. If the Founding Fathers wanted to say everything on the planet with any monetary value no matter how small shall be completely controlled in every little aspect by the federal government I think they would have come right out and said it in black and white rather than pollute Section 8 with the verbiage "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;" which makes it sound like their talking state tariffs and taxes. 
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:26:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well duh, ever read a 4473? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pot was decriminalized in my state for anything under a half ounce, which is like a parking ticket. A guy just recently got a ticket for a roach in his ashtray ( what is left if you smoke a joint) and after paying his fine the state stepped in and took his registered AW AR15. Sounds like the state recognizes and enforces portions of federal MJ law, and not others. A.W.D. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:30:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now show me the amendment that says pot is legal and then I will agree it is a federal issue. 9. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 10. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. And by implication and bonus points, I will give you: 18. Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all the territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited. 21. Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#42]
that would be a big mistake if he really does follow through on this
this should have been made legal long ago |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:32:17 PM EDT
[#43]
The Republic is dead.
Quote HistoryQuoted:Uh yeah, we'll get right on that after repealing the NFA, getting our normal gas cans back, repealing unconstitutional state gun laws etc.  The government only takes freedom. It NEVER gives it back.And you missed ex post facto laws shall being passed and that full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state like CCW and medial cannabis licenses. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:33:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's actually my fear. I believe this is an attempt to get back at so called 'sanctuary states'. Trump might be all like "If you want to shelter illegals I'll sent the DOJ to fuck up your state economies by cracking down on weed". |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:36:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Nothin like rollin into 20 trillion in debt, with failing entitlements, and imploding healthcare, and a 16 year long economic stagnation, and saying to yourself "now is a good time to arrest more potheads."
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:38:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would definitely be nice if we could somehow get the pro gun, and pro weed guys more aligned. We could have a lot more freedom for everybody. This. Voted for legalization in CO and very pro gun here 
I don't see any inconsistency, but for many the indoctrination against weed is pretty damn thorough, almost to a reefer madness brainwashing point. Which is exactly, precisely how liberals feel about guns. It's all fear-based decision making, which is known to be very hard to correct. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:38:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Will it? The Feds have the Commerce Clause and the Supremacy Clause and the big checkbook on their side. All the states can do is say "then do something about it." The supremacy clause ... that's not working out for those who live in states that have restricted the Second Amendment. And the courts are bullshitting with the commerce clause because they'll arrest someone in a state who is smoking pot wholly grown, sold, and smoked within a state. Even the most liberal reading of the commerce clause has to deal with that pesky " among the several States " language which makes it sound like they're dealing with the items enumerated later like taxes and tariffs. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:39:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many would absolutely love to be able to take cards but the banks can't/won't do business with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These are all cash businesses correct? Probably quite a bit of federal tax evasion going on as well. Many would absolutely love to be able to take cards but the banks can't/won't do business with them. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:42:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Are we just going to sit here and pretend that all the folks who are saying "We gotta follow the rule of law" actually give a damn about the rule of law in this case? Let's be honest, they just have a personal thing against marijuana and are happy that the federal government has unconstitutionally usurped its enumerated powers to ban it.
The rule of law was ignored in order to arbitrarily create an unconstitutional law. By not enforcing unconstitutional laws, we are ignoring the rule of law. Is that how this works?
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Posted: 2/27/2017 4:42:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like the state recognizes and enforces portions of federal MJ law, and not others. A.W.D. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pot was decriminalized in my state for anything under a half ounce, which is like a parking ticket. A guy just recently got a ticket for a roach in his ashtray ( what is left if you smoke a joint) and after paying his fine the state stepped in and took his registered AW AR15. Sounds like the state recognizes and enforces portions of federal MJ law, and not others. A.W.D. |
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