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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:19:51 PM EDT
[#1]
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See all those moves. I'm 6'4 250 lbs and bench press 350 lbs, she can't do those moves to me. She can't twist me up into a pretzel, I'd plain overpower her. She's probably be too quick and skilled for me to destroy her, but she couldn't do shit to me. So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:23:41 PM EDT
[#2]
I really really want to spar her now
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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:26:40 PM EDT
[#3]
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Also, when you train every day, it's MUCH easier to absorb shots. You gets used to being hit and you acclimate to it. 6 months of training a few days a week, that same shot I took the first week was a 'normal' hit. Neither of us really grew much, but I'd gotten used to being hit. Also, I was in good shape pretty much all through high school and when I got in a street fight, 3 maybe 4 minutes of fighting was about the max. After a while of training you learn how to pace and not wear yourself out. I still work out a bit, but nowhere near like I used to- I'd be worn out in probably a minute against anyone.. Both very true. On cardio days, we'd do 5 minute non-stop exercises on the standing heavy bags. I could do the full time, although depending on the exercise there were a few times they made me sit and take a break before I passed out or threw up (75-80% lung capacity/function). However, part of training was full contact sparring (every legit school should require it, imho), and it only took a couple of minutes with the amateur fighters my size and my gas tank was struggling. Folks able to do 5 rounds full out, regardless of weight class, are impressive. I did learn, if nothing else, that I can take full power punches (16 oz gloves) and kicks from a fighter my size and keep coming. Ronda would have to try and submit me quickly. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:47:01 PM EDT
[#4]
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Sure, but years and years of refining a technique and finding shortcuts that work for you greatly trumps any rushed training camps. Most every fight goes to the ground. The fighters that are better on the ground are the ones who usually win. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because in fact there are a lot of things learned after blue belt that are used? I come as a guy who just wants to learn bjj, what do you teach me? I come as a guy with a wrestling background who want's to fight and I think wearing the PJs is teh ghey, what do you teach me? Point being, if it's THAT useful, it's integrated into a fighters camp. All the rest of the stuff not so much. Can we agree on that? Sure, but years and years of refining a technique and finding shortcuts that work for you greatly trumps any rushed training camps. Most every fight goes to the ground. The fighters that are better on the ground are the ones who usually win. If you grapple you are going to get better at grappling. No argument there. But if you learn standard bjj. And I train exclusively nogi under Eddie Bravo. For the same amount of time, which one of us would be better in the cage? All other factors being equal, me correct. Because I only trained to use and defend things that actually work in the cage. If that is true, which I think we can agree it is. How much time does someone following the nogi only path have to train to be the equivalent of his traditional counterpart. 1-2 1-3 1-4? I don't know the answer to that question exactly, but that's my thought process. YMMV |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:54:29 PM EDT
[#5]
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My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it.  http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrk
My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. BJJ isn't even a complete unarmed fight style. It is, however, the most important of the various incomplete fight styles. No amount of MMA makes for well rounded "street" defense, either. And the "combat" styles that claim "no rules" are worse, they don't even work in the ring. "Street" is more about awarness and weapons and not getting into stupid trouble. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 8:58:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BJJ isn't even a complete unarmed fight style. It is, however, the most important of the various incomplete fight styles. No amount of MMA makes for well rounded "street" defense, either. And the "combat" styles that claim "no rules" are worse, they don't even work in the ring. "Street" is more about awarness and weapons and not getting into stupid trouble. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrk
My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. BJJ isn't even a complete unarmed fight style. It is, however, the most important of the various incomplete fight styles. No amount of MMA makes for well rounded "street" defense, either. And the "combat" styles that claim "no rules" are worse, they don't even work in the ring. "Street" is more about awarness and weapons and not getting into stupid trouble. Keeping one's mouth shut helps, too. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:02:22 PM EDT
[#7]
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If you grapple you are going to get better at grappling. No argument there. But if you learn standard bjj. And I train exclusively nogi under Eddie Bravo. For the same amount of time, which one of us would be better in the cage? All other factors being equal, me correct. Because I only trained to use and defend things that actually work in the cage. If that is true, which I think we can agree it is. How much time does someone following the nogi only path have to train to be the equivalent of his traditional counterpart. 1-2 1-3 1-4? I don't know the answer to that question exactly, but that's my thought process. YMMV I don't fully understand the question. 
The nogi guy would be better in the cage for equal training. However, one thing abot gi is that it is a more technical game. So in the gi, a more technical fighter might be superior to a more physical fighter who does better in nogi. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:04:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Slightly off topic - I can't think of a champion who hasn't trained in the gi.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:06:19 PM EDT
[#9]
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lol 5' 7 135lb This. 
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:09:45 PM EDT
[#10]
I'd kill her. I'm twice three times her size, I like getting hit, and spent several years playing ball, and have three years of gracie jiu jitsu.
That being said, she's kinda sexy. I'd let her beat on me for a bit if she wanted to. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:14:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrkMy former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:17:06 PM EDT
[#12]
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Would it be wrong to assume the average unfit and untrained person armed with a knife and hate could give a competent and fit martial arts practitioner a big problem? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrk
My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. That was not his assumption. He believed his training and skill trumped everything. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:17:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would it be wrong to assume the average unfit and untrained person armed with a knife and hate could give a competent and fit martial arts practitioner a big problem? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrk
My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. Lots of variables there. I would not attack Royce Gracie with anything short of a firearm, and from a bit of a distance. a good gracie practitioner could probably isolate and disarm a knife wielding attacker pretty easy. But that's a top level, world class fighter. someone like me, two years of gracie and kinda half ass at it? Yeah I would not want to take on a knife wielding person. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#14]
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Uh huh. Which is why weight classes in professional fighting exist, to protect the heavy weights from those damned bantam weights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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FYI, this is what happens when a street tough goes up against even a mediocre professional fighter. No one outside of the male professional fighters is beating Ronda these days. http://youtu.be/tl6ilMpq8hQ
She's 135. You've seen too many movies, because in the real world, in a fight, size matters. Uh huh. Which is why weight classes in professional fighting exist, to protect the heavy weights from those damned bantam weights. Untold masses of Bruce Lee fans would absolutely miss the sarcasm and agree with you. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:20:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of variables there. I would not attack Royce Gracie with anything short of a firearm, and from a bit of a distance. a good gracie practitioner could probably isolate and disarm a knife wielding attacker pretty easy. But that's a top level, world class fighter. someone like me, two years of gracie and kinda half ass at it? Yeah I would not want to take on a knife wielding person. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Would it be wrong to assume the average unfit and untrained person armed with a knife and hate could give a competent and fit martial arts practitioner a big problem? Lots of variables there. I would not attack Royce Gracie with anything short of a firearm, and from a bit of a distance. a good gracie practitioner could probably isolate and disarm a knife wielding attacker pretty easy. But that's a top level, world class fighter. someone like me, two years of gracie and kinda half ass at it? Yeah I would not want to take on a knife wielding person. ETA: I envision some type of event in public that devolves into trash talking, posturing, getting into each other's personal space and one party accesses a concealed weapon and just starts shanking. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:20:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:25:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes indeed.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd rather be destroyed by Gina Carano. Yes indeed.  |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:27:00 PM EDT
[#18]
She could certainly kick everyone's ass on this thread unless there is a male professional fighter on this thread.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:27:37 PM EDT
[#19]
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So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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See all those moves. I'm 6'4 250 lbs and bench press 350 lbs, she can't do those moves to me. She can't twist me up into a pretzel, I'd plain overpower her. She's probably be too quick and skilled for me to destroy her, but she couldn't do shit to me. So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? I'd box and she'd never get close to me with my gorilla arms. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:28:10 PM EDT
[#20]
I wonder if she could do a kegel bar
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:28:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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See all those moves. I'm 6'4 250 lbs and bench press 350 lbs, she can't do those moves to me. She can't twist me up into a pretzel, I'd plain overpower her. She's probably be too quick and skilled for me to destroy her, but she couldn't do shit to me. So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? Not actual fighting. Sparring is something else entirely. You ever tried blocking a kick or punch from a guy that benches 350, with 250 on the other end when you're 135? You ever had a guy that weighs 250 grab you and fall on your 135 pound ass on a concrete floor. A guy this big and strong, when you're 135 just has to get ahold of you. In actual real world fights, someone goes to the hospital usually in 30 seconds or less. There's no dancing around and "wearing someone out". Fighting and Sparring are 2 very different things. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:36:49 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't know whose ass she could kick around here, but I'd pay per view that shit all day long if anyone wants to get it in motion.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:40:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Yah!!! that leverage arm bar gonna hurt!!!!
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:40:32 PM EDT
[#24]
There is a lot of delusion on this thread. It seems like every man thinks they can fight but not every man thinks he can, for example, play the piano.
Everything is great when it is theoretical and you can hypothesize without any skin in the game. If you live in a big town go to an MMA gym. They will probably have a BJJ class or MMA class with good females. Roll and/or spar with them. They will kick your ass. "But it's not the str33t." If you think things would go down differently in the str33t, it's just your ego. It's simple: Muscle memory. Practice. Like any other skill. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:40:59 PM EDT
[#25]
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One thing I learn from these threads is I am the only one on here who doesn't train with high level fighters.
Also I'm sure she could kick my ass but I'd love to touch the hiney!
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Posted: 2/26/2015 9:55:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll just leave this here. Weight classes do matter. That guy isn't a champion fighter but manhandled her like a little kid. http://youtu.be/o9xjs2fWJEsYeah. Dude is obviously a piker. 
Gegard Mousasi: Professional fighter website I thought he had skill the way he was staying out of trouble. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:01:47 PM EDT
[#27]
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There is a lot of delusion on this thread. It seems like every man thinks they can fight but not every man thinks he can, for example, play the piano. Piano playing isn't listed on the MAN CARD!!! What are you, some kinda faggit? |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:27:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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I don't fully understand the question.
The nogi guy would be better in the cage for equal training. However, one thing abot gi is that it is a more technical game. So in the gi, a more technical fighter might be superior to a more physical fighter who does better in nogi. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you grapple you are going to get better at grappling. No argument there. But if you learn standard bjj. And I train exclusively nogi under Eddie Bravo. For the same amount of time, which one of us would be better in the cage? All other factors being equal, me correct. Because I only trained to use and defend things that actually work in the cage. If that is true, which I think we can agree it is. How much time does someone following the nogi only path have to train to be the equivalent of his traditional counterpart. 1-2 1-3 1-4? I don't know the answer to that question exactly, but that's my thought process. YMMV I don't fully understand the question.
The nogi guy would be better in the cage for equal training. However, one thing abot gi is that it is a more technical game. So in the gi, a more technical fighter might be superior to a more physical fighter who does better in nogi. Follow the thread 
I'm just spelling out why I said a good grappler with some bjj familiarity could win against a traditional black belt in mma. Teach him to stay safe and he can win fights other ways. Obviously ideally you want a well rounded advanced fighter in all elements of the sport, but I felt bjj was being over emphasized in this thread. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:29:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a lot of delusion on this thread. It seems like every man thinks they can fight but not every man thinks he can, for example, play the piano. Everything is great when it is theoretical and you can hypothesize without any skin in the game. If you live in a big town go to an MMA gym. They will probably have a BJJ class or MMA class with good females. Roll and/or spar with them. They will kick your ass. "But it's not the str33t." If you think things would go down differently in the str33t, it's just your ego. It's simple: Muscle memory. Practice. Like any other skill. I live in a major metro area. I do go to an MMA gym and the females can't kick my ass. Your move 
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:31:01 PM EDT
[#30]
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Nonsense. Nothing in the "real world" makes strength more important. What makes a "street" fight more deadly is surprise, weapons, buddies, no ref, and surprise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fighting in a ring / dojo is VERY different from actual fighting in the real world. In real world fights strength and brutality count a lot more than in a ring. Nonsense. Nothing in the "real world" makes strength more important. What makes a "street" fight more deadly is surprise, weapons, buddies, no ref, and surprise. You said surprise twice
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:31:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Would get smashed.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:32:50 PM EDT
[#32]
what is that growth on her face
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:36:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryI miss him  |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:36:59 PM EDT
[#34]
I'd let her rough me up.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:37:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I've got her by 6 inches and 70 pounds. She'd beat my ass senseless in under a minute.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:05:35 PM EDT
[#36]
I used to be a good dancer. I'm too old to dance, so I carry now.
i was a damn good fighter in my day. I'm |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:11:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing I learn from these threads is I am the only one on here who doesn't train with high level fighters.
Also I'm sure she could kick my ass but I'd love to touch the hiney! yup...that is 1 fine hiney!!! would tongue punch!! |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:14:30 PM EDT
[#38]
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That was not his assumption. He believed his training and skill trumped everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrk
My former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. That was not his assumption. He believed his training and skill trumped everything. Reality intruded on his fantasy. He forgot everyone doesn't always play fair. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:17:16 PM EDT
[#39]
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what is that growth on her face A skin tag. Answered on page one. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#40]
We know she is a wicked bitch, butt I would corn hole her if given the chance -
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:23:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that broad can go get bent no matter how tough she is. She is only relevant to the segment of the population that watches that stuff. Does not matter elsewhere. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:28:14 PM EDT
[#42]
There is a point where a mans size and strength will over come her skill. I do not reach that point. My head is slamming the mat, God I hope its a mat or a bed. Then she will take what ever submission she wants.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:40:01 PM EDT
[#43]
So...
In these fights, the point is to grapple until you get someone into a pain hold? That's it? no punches? Just tugs and pushes, grapples and twists? The youtube of the man grappling with her - holding her hip with one hand while wrapping the other around her head was 'interesting' - he basically just lifted her entirely off the ground and deposited her where he wanted. Had he been raining blows to her abdomen with that free (right) arm I can't imagine she'd just absorb it. The other youtubes of the pro vs. street where the same - the guy who rains the most punches non-stop wins unless he gets in an unlucky position to be pinned. There's nothing more 'distracting' then getting not just one or two blows to the side of your head but 3, 4, 5 non-stop. The eyes close involuntarily and the hands go up to defend leaving the body open to any move (which is why most of these fights end on the ground - the aggressor does the bam, bam, bam, bam, bam....body check to floor move. Height and weight and arm length matter IF punches are allowed. If it's entirely about grappling then whomever knows the quickest moves might win - like a kick to the knee etc. If the fight is about blows not kicks or grappling, I can't see her beating "most" guys. some guys sure. Guys with a heart condition, overweight guys who never fought. Guys with glasses who can't see without them. But a 200lbs. 6' reasonably athletic guy who knows at least some basics with boxing, sparing, wrestling? half a dozen blows to that model's nose and it's lights out. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:48:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... In these fights, the point is to grapple until you get someone into a pain hold? That's it? no punches? Just tugs and pushes, grapples and twists? The youtube of the man grappling with her - holding her hip with one hand while wrapping the other around her head was 'interesting' - he basically just lifted her entirely off the ground and deposited her where he wanted. Had he been raining blows to her abdomen with that free (right) arm I can't imagine she'd just absorb it. The other youtubes of the pro vs. street where the same - the guy who rains the most punches non-stop wins unless he gets in an unlucky position to be pinned. There's nothing more 'distracting' then getting not just one or two blows to the side of your head but 3, 4, 5 non-stop. The eyes close involuntarily and the hands go up to defend leaving the body open to any move (which is why most of these fights end on the ground - the aggressor does the bam, bam, bam, bam, bam....body check to floor move. Height and weight and arm length matter IF punches are allowed. If it's entirely about grappling then whomever knows the quickest moves might win - like a kick to the knee etc. If the fight is about blows not kicks or grappling, I can't see her beating "most" guys. some guys sure. Guys with a heart condition, overweight guys who never fought. Guys with glasses who can't see without them. But a 200lbs. 6' reasonably athletic guy who knows at least some basics with boxing, sparing, wrestling? half a dozen blows to that model's nose and it's lights out. That doesn't support the "girl-power" communist narrative that men are weak and stupid though. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:48:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really what I'm getting at. I'm more saying you take a wrestler, teach him MT and enough and the right parts of BJJ and he could be quite successful. You know as well as I do, that basically nothing you learn past blue belt is usually used on the street or in the cage. Nor is alot of what you have to learn even useful because it is predicated on certain grips being available that simply aren't there Nogi. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Grapplers with limited bjj experience, win all the time against black belts in MMA. They know enough to be careful and defend certain attacks, and how to do a couple of attacks if the opportunity arises. It is way way way less complicated when the PJs come off. Most cross train quite a bit. Ronda has been working her Jits and MT, she isn't just Judo. Not really what I'm getting at. I'm more saying you take a wrestler, teach him MT and enough and the right parts of BJJ and he could be quite successful. You know as well as I do, that basically nothing you learn past blue belt is usually used on the street or in the cage. Nor is alot of what you have to learn even useful because it is predicated on certain grips being available that simply aren't there Nogi. What you use the gi for can be used in real life if the person is wearing the right clothing. And most of what youlearn past blue is just increased skill level for the techniques you already learned. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:51:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back when I fought? Don't think so, Tim. Right now? I get gassed taking the damn garbage down the easement.  |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:53:02 PM EDT
[#47]
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lol 5' 7 135lb +1 I'm 6' and 185. I routinely tussle with guys bigger than me in the dojo. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:58:34 PM EDT
[#48]
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Not actual fighting. Sparring is something else entirely. You ever tried blocking a kick or punch from a guy that benches 350, with 250 on the other end when you're 135? You ever had a guy that weighs 250 grab you and fall on your 135 pound ass on a concrete floor. A guy this big and strong, when you're 135 just has to get ahold of you. In actual real world fights, someone goes to the hospital usually in 30 seconds or less. There's no dancing around and "wearing someone out". Fighting and Sparring are 2 very different things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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See all those moves. I'm 6'4 250 lbs and bench press 350 lbs, she can't do those moves to me. She can't twist me up into a pretzel, I'd plain overpower her. She's probably be too quick and skilled for me to destroy her, but she couldn't do shit to me. So no technique? Just size and strength? What happens when you get tired and she is still attacking you? Not actual fighting. Sparring is something else entirely. You ever tried blocking a kick or punch from a guy that benches 350, with 250 on the other end when you're 135? You ever had a guy that weighs 250 grab you and fall on your 135 pound ass on a concrete floor. A guy this big and strong, when you're 135 just has to get ahold of you. In actual real world fights, someone goes to the hospital usually in 30 seconds or less. There's no dancing around and "wearing someone out". Fighting and Sparring are 2 very different things. Benching 350 doesnt mean shit. Not shit. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:58:58 PM EDT
[#49]
I worked with her step dad for over 20 years. He had an office next to mine for half that time. He is a very mild mannered (and smart) engineer. You would never guess that he was related to someone like Ronda.
The only time I ever heard him raise his voice was when he was talking to one of his kids on the phone. I suspect that she was a handful as a kid. His wife was the first American to win at the World Judo Championships. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:01:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would it be wrong to assume the average unfit and untrained person armed with a knife and hate could give a competent and fit martial arts practitioner a big problem? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Watch what BJJ does against a much larger opponent who doesn't know how to defend against it. http://youtu.be/W5WfWmISKrkMy former roommate did a lot of BJJ. Totally into it, black belt, fills in teaching... He recently spent some time in the hospital getting his intestines put back in after his mouth wrote a check his BJJ couldn't cash. To quote someone here on ARF: "A guy with a knife = 12 years in dojo." |
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