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Posted: 4/16/2014 4:05:50 PM EDT
[#1]
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I don't think so. Is there anything in the bible on it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Which makes practically no sense to me. My dogs are way more free of sin than most people. would it be a sin to sniff a random person's ass? I don't think so. Is there anything in the bible on it? This guy is good to go then. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 5:15:18 PM EDT
[#2]
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By Christian standards, animals can't have souls. Animals aren't baptized, so how can they be saved? If they aren't saved their soul can not enter heaven. Other parts of the bible say there will be animals cavorting about, but no mention of dogs. Wolves, horses, lions, sheep. No dogs. Or cats. How come some animals get souls and others don't? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 5:17:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... LOL. You think that is what it takes to get into hell or heaven? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:01:39 PM EDT
[#4]
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How come some animals get souls and others don't? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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By Christian standards, animals can't have souls. Animals aren't baptized, so how can they be saved? If they aren't saved their soul can not enter heaven. Other parts of the bible say there will be animals cavorting about, but no mention of dogs. Wolves, horses, lions, sheep. No dogs. Or cats. How come some animals get souls and others don't? George Orwell had the answer to that one, some animals are more equal then others   
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:13:38 AM EDT
[#5]
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You guys jest but there are some people who believe this Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's pretty shitty that all those aborted babies and babies that died at birth are going to burn in hell because they never said "the prayer". That was their choice not to accept Christ
We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:17:22 AM EDT
[#6]
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We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's pretty shitty that all those aborted babies and babies that died at birth are going to burn in hell because they never said "the prayer". That was their choice not to accept Christ
We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear Nope. A couple of pages back I explained that practically no one believes that. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:25:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's pretty shitty that all those aborted babies and babies that died at birth are going to burn in hell because they never said "the prayer". That was their choice not to accept Christ We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:31:05 AM EDT
[#8]
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What I don't understand is how anyone could "choose" to send them selves to hell or not. I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the gun who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That was their choice not to accept Christ
We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the gun who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Good way of putting it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 9:21:14 AM EDT
[#9]
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What I don't understand is how anyone could "choose" to send them selves to hell or not. I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's pretty shitty that all those aborted babies and babies that died at birth are going to burn in hell because they never said "the prayer". That was their choice not to accept Christ
We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. lol..."it's Gods fault you have free will" |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:07:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol..."it's Gods fault you have free will" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. lol..."it's Gods fault you have free will" Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:12:42 AM EDT
[#11]
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Folks make their choices. So let it be. Yep. Free will to believe/do what you want and all that jazz.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:13:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Nope. Life's full of choices.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:19:44 AM EDT
[#13]
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No one claimed that. Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. lol..."it's Gods fault you have free will" Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. The analogy sucks..it goes beyond suck..it gets into blow territory You are given free will to accept Gods grace..if you reject it..God simply gives you what you asked for...separation from Him. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:52:46 AM EDT
[#14]
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....snip... You are given free will to accept Gods grace..if you reject it..God simply gives you what you asked for...separation from Him. Sounds passive-aggressive, which is not a far cry from an admitted vengeful and jealous god. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#15]
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Sounds passive-aggressive, which is not a far cry from an admitted vengeful and jealous god. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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....snip... You are given free will to accept Gods grace..if you reject it..God simply gives you what you asked for...separation from Him. Sounds passive-aggressive, which is not a far cry from an admitted vengeful and jealous god. So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:14:37 AM EDT
[#16]
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What I don't understand is how anyone could "choose" to send them selves to hell or not. I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's pretty shitty that all those aborted babies and babies that died at birth are going to burn in hell because they never said "the prayer". That was their choice not to accept Christ
We're aware....I think the past 6 pages make that pretty clear I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Bad analogy. God gave folks the gift of life and free will, which allows them to choose the values that make up their spirit. Note that spirts are not animating forces, they are the person, which includes their values and requires the machinery of a physical body to support the functions of "person". The soul simply refers to the physical machinery that supports that person in anotherr world. There is no "lake of fire", there's only worlds, "rooms" with persons of similar spirit. So, the gift of life is just that. The person chooses what values they "like" during that life. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#17]
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:28:06 AM EDT
[#18]
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A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. I guess you can tell Him that some day. Good luck. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:29:01 AM EDT
[#19]
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... Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. There is no "appease me". The choice is whether or not one values life and the lives and rights of others, such as their sovereignty of will. This isn't a game like the politicians and folks in charge play, where they fake it. Edit: Note that God didn't force His will on anyone. When the religious authorities claimed to know and understand Him, they killed Him, because He did not comply to their demands. So, the "appease me" only applies to the men that require it, because God doesn't. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:34:13 AM EDT
[#20]
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There are no dogs in heaven, you can keep it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dZjwsxYtUA LOL, just what I was thinking. 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:36:54 AM EDT
[#21]
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I guess you can tell Him that some day. Good luck. If I were truly faced with that scenario some day, I'd definitely wish I'd paid heed to O_P and would get busy looking for a loophole  But I'm betting that "god" won't show up for Judgment Day and there'll be a lot of disappointed folks feeling like they were part of some very large April's fool joke. Either way, we roll the dice, make our choices and learn to live with consequences, come what may.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:44:44 AM EDT
[#22]
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Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? quoting again from page 2 |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:46:00 AM EDT
[#23]
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A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:51:24 AM EDT
[#24]
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quoting again from page 2 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? quoting again from page 2 Some time when you are bored, do a search for the phrase "free will" in the Bible. The results are interesting. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:54:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Free will is an illusion. Your brain operates on electricity and chemicals. It's plain old classical physics. Action and reaction. We're all just one long drawn out chemical reaction.
ETA: and for that matter, quantum mechanics is BS. True randomness does not exist. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#26]
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It's really good ice cream. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No no no...I'm calling BS. There is no way you have chosen to worship Satan over ice cream! We need to talk, there is a whole lot more than ice cream over here on this side. Ice cream??? He offered a lot more to Jesus I'm just saying. I'm sure you are special to him but may wanna ask about the other deals he has going. Also, the guy I friended casts out demons on a dime. Ice cream.....please It's really good ice cream. I hear he makes a gnarly cake too. I'm down for cake. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#27]
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This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? I find faith interesting. Religion also informs people's attitudes and beliefs and motivates their actions, so naturally being surrounded by large numbers of religious observers I take an interest in what they think and why. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:05:38 PM EDT
[#28]
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This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:06:21 PM EDT
[#29]
yes, but mostly because i don't believe in a magical place with fire and a little dude in a red suit with a pitchfork
magic sky wizard nonsense fundy's kill me 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:12:42 PM EDT
[#30]
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Free will is an illusion. Your brain operates on electricity and chemicals. It's plain old classical physics. Action and reaction. We're all just one long drawn out chemical reaction. ETA: and for that matter, quantum mechanics is BS. True randomness does not exist. Free will does exist. It is a logical process that results in a conclusion, AKA the decision. All of reality operates according to QM. Classical is just an approximation. Randomness is inherent in reality, w/o it there could be no interaction whatsoever. That means no physics, no phenomina and brain activity whatsoever. Since you're using a device that can only be created by according to the laws of QM and not classical EM, your claim is false. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:15:37 PM EDT
[#31]
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... As a Buddhist/Infidel I'm already going to hell. 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:15:54 PM EDT
[#32]
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It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. it's the arrogance and condescension displayed in the above post that make me avoid Christians.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:17:35 PM EDT
[#33]
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lol..."it's Gods Bush's fault you have free will" At least that's all I've heard the last six long years. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:17:36 PM EDT
[#34]
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Free will is an illusion. Your brain operates on electricity and chemicals. It's plain old classical physics. Action and reaction. We're all just one long drawn out chemical reaction. ETA: and for that matter, quantum mechanics is BS. True randomness does not exist. And the electro-chemical reactions in the test tubes of your brain told you that how? What can you know with certainty about your mind when the tool you have to study it with is also your mind? |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:17:40 PM EDT
[#35]
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yes, but mostly because i don't believe in a magical place with fire and a little dude in a red suit with a pitchfork Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes, but mostly because i don't believe in a magical place with fire and a little dude in a red suit with a pitchfork Except we do not believe there is a "little dude in a red suit with a pitchfork". That is not Biblical and totally made up by non-believers. magic sky wizard nonsense
fundy's kill me Atheists that pop off about a subject they know nothing about crack me up. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:19:39 PM EDT
[#36]
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It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. Joy, love and hope comes from people. If there is none, then folks have not provided it or provided for it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:23:38 PM EDT
[#37]
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it's the arrogance and condescension displayed in the above post that make me avoid Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. it's the arrogance and condescension displayed in the above post that make me avoid Christians. I get it man, don't mean to offend but Christians believe because of faith and actual real stuff that happens to them as a Christian that fortifies their belief and faith. but hey , if it's bogus in the end and there is no heaven/hell.. then we'll all be dead and no harm done because as a believer if I'm wrong , oh well .. as a non believer if you're wrong , you're screwed. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#38]
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As a Buddhist/Infidel I'm already going to hell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... As a Buddhist/Infidel I'm already going to hell. Just don't douse yourself in gasoline and light a match to protest something and you'll be alright. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:33:47 PM EDT
[#39]
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I get it man, don't mean to offend but Christians believe because of faith and actual real stuff that happens to them as a Christian that fortifies their belief and faith. but hey , if it's bogus in the end.. then we'll all be dead and no harm done because as a believer if I'm wrong , oh well .. as a non believer if you're wrong , you're screwed If God sends me to hell because I didn't believe in something "just in case"...I wouldn't be a fan of a God like that anyway. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:47:38 PM EDT
[#40]
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If God sends me to hell because I didn't believe in something "just in case"...I wouldn't be a fan of a God like that anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I get it man, don't mean to offend but Christians believe because of faith and actual real stuff that happens to them as a Christian that fortifies their belief and faith. but hey , if it's bogus in the end.. then we'll all be dead and no harm done because as a believer if I'm wrong , oh well .. as a non believer if you're wrong , you're screwed If God sends me to hell because I didn't believe in something "just in case"...I wouldn't be a fan of a God like that anyway. And you would be correct. There is no possible Pascal's Wager. You can't "pretend" to believe to fool God. Belief must be genuine or it means nothing. If you are not interested, then it is silly to try to convince you. You've made up your mind. If you've not made up your mind, then it is our commandment to tell you about the Gospel. But no one can force you to believe. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:57:32 PM EDT
[#41]
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No one claimed that. Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. lol..."it's Gods fault you have free will" Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. You just don't understand God!!
I don't put as much effort into the minutiae of Christian belief as many do. I accepted Jesus into my heart, pray to God for forgiveness, understanding, wisdom, the safety of my folks, our military members and let Him know I hold no grudges against any that have wronged me(which rarely happens anyway.). I do my best to work hard, take care of my loved ones and treat people with respect. If I make it into heaven, great. If I don't, oh well. If when I die, that is it and nothing else happens, oh well, I won't care anyway. For all intents and purposes, I'm a short skip from agnostic into belief. I refuse to believe that humanity is incapable of anything of note with or without my God. If that is wrong, so be it. Maintain your faith in your own way. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free will is an illusion. Your brain operates on electricity and chemicals. It's plain old classical physics. Action and reaction. We're all just one long drawn out chemical reaction. ETA: and for that matter, quantum mechanics is BS. True randomness does not exist.  |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:13:32 PM EDT
[#43]
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It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. It works both ways, Believers pop into threads all the time and condemn non believers and bring your views into the Frey. you guys are being disingenuous at best to say that these Theist vs. Atheist battles are always and only the result of non believers spouting off. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:18:06 PM EDT
[#44]
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It works both ways, Believers pop into threads all the time and condemn non believers and bring your views into the Frey. you guys are being disingenuous at best to say that these Theist vs. Atheist battles are always and only the result of non believers spouting off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So?...God does not fit in your little box set up by your limited understanding....so therefore he's mean. A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. It works both ways, Believers pop into threads all the time and condemn non believers and bring your views into the Frey. you guys are being disingenuous at best to say that these Theist vs. Atheist battles are always and only the result of non believers spouting off. Should I not defend my faith from lies and deceit? |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:22:49 PM EDT
[#45]
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And you would be correct. There is no possible Pascal's Wager. You can't "pretend" to believe to fool God. Belief must be genuine or it means nothing. If you are not interested, then it is silly to try to convince you. You've made up your mind. If you've not made up your mind, then it is our commandment to tell you about the Gospel. But no one can force you to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I get it man, don't mean to offend but Christians believe because of faith and actual real stuff that happens to them as a Christian that fortifies their belief and faith. but hey , if it's bogus in the end.. then we'll all be dead and no harm done because as a believer if I'm wrong , oh well .. as a non believer if you're wrong , you're screwed If God sends me to hell because I didn't believe in something "just in case"...I wouldn't be a fan of a God like that anyway. And you would be correct. There is no possible Pascal's Wager. You can't "pretend" to believe to fool God. Belief must be genuine or it means nothing. If you are not interested, then it is silly to try to convince you. You've made up your mind. If you've not made up your mind, then it is our commandment to tell you about the Gospel. But no one can force you to believe. And when someone say "Stop, enough already.", why not stop? When I was telling of my search, that is one of the things that turned me off, I did not want to be bombarded but whenever I would say I had enough, it wouldn't stop. It was as if they thought they were fighting a fish and if they rested for even a second it would throw the hook and escape, In reality it was just the opposite, the fish fought harder to get away. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#46]
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Should I not defend my faith from lies and deceit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A "god" that creates sentient beings and ends up sitting in judgement over them and casts the majority in lakes of fire and brimstone for eternity isn't "mean"; he is an unloving and unjust tyrant. This is what baffles me....you don't believe..so why is any of this any issue to you? It's different for sure, people that don't believe it's going to rain tomorrow don't argue about it with people who do. But bring God into it and the non believers want to force their non- belief on others. It's sad, what most don't understand is that any joy they have here on earth ,any love or hope comes from this invisible god they don't even believe in ; yet they benefit from him all day every day. Even the light that shines day and night is due to him, bible says Jesus is the light of the world.. take hell .. there is no joy, hope, happiness, no light. total suck place void of the invisible god they don't even believe in. It works both ways, Believers pop into threads all the time and condemn non believers and bring your views into the Frey. you guys are being disingenuous at best to say that these Theist vs. Atheist battles are always and only the result of non believers spouting off. Should I not defend my faith from lies and deceit? To the point of driving a wedge between someone and any chance of finding the way to the God you proclaim to love? Sure why not? I got sick of people like you when I was (not sure if I am wording this right) reading the bible and asking questions and trying to accept the word of God. See my responce to O_P, you are a fisherman. The more I get it forced on me. the harder I push away from it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:41:49 PM EDT
[#47]
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... If thats your criteria then the person will have plenty of company me included.... Keep it in the religion forum.... |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:51:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The analogy sucks..it goes beyond suck..it gets into blow territory You are given free will to accept Gods grace..if you reject it..God simply gives you what you asked for...separation from Him. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why would I? To stick with the analogy, it would be like saying "its the sniper's fault for letting you have the choice to live or die", which is a stupid statement. Why? Because its wrong. Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. Sorry that you completely misunderstood the analogy. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. The analogy sucks..it goes beyond suck..it gets into blow territory You are given free will to accept Gods grace..if you reject it..God simply gives you what you asked for...separation from Him.  Actually the analogy is extremely good if you are talking about a LITERAL HELL. If you aren't talking about a literal hell, then you are correct, it doesn't apply. ETA::As far as atheists are concerned, a "total separation from god" = every day life for every human being in the universe. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:53:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bad analogy. God gave folks the gift of life and free will, which allows them to choose the values that make up their spirit. Note that spirts are not animating forces, they are the person, which includes their values and requires the machinery of a physical body to support the functions of "person". The soul simply refers to the physical machinery that supports that person in anotherr world. There is no "lake of fire", there's only worlds, "rooms" with persons of similar spirit. So, the gift of life is just that. The person chooses what values they "like" during that life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll hazard an analogy: You are walking down the street and someone runs up and tells you "there is a guy over in that stand of trees across the street who is aiming a rifle at you right now, you need to say that you love him into this microphone and he won't kill you" You laugh, thinking this guy is nuts, and try to walk on. Three steps later a .308 round hits you directly in the head, killing you instantly. Who is responsible for your death, you, or the guy who shot you? I'd hope any reasonable person would clearly see that the guy who set up the situation, presumably the sniper, is the guilty party. In my view hell, if it actually existed (which I don't believe) would be exactly the same. Not complying with the wishes of an entity that you don't think exists does not make you responsible for the actions of that entity. That entity is the one who intentionally set up the situation to begin with. Bad analogy. God gave folks the gift of life and free will, which allows them to choose the values that make up their spirit. Note that spirts are not animating forces, they are the person, which includes their values and requires the machinery of a physical body to support the functions of "person". The soul simply refers to the physical machinery that supports that person in anotherr world. There is no "lake of fire", there's only worlds, "rooms" with persons of similar spirit. So, the gift of life is just that. The person chooses what values they "like" during that life. The analogy is only valid for a literal hell. Sorry for not clarifying that. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:54:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no "appease me". The choice is whether or not one values life and the lives and rights of others, such as their sovereignty of will. This isn't a game like the politicians and folks in charge play, where they fake it. Edit: Note that God didn't force His will on anyone. When the religious authorities claimed to know and understand Him, they killed Him, because He did not comply to their demands. So, the "appease me" only applies to the men that require it, because God doesn't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ... Its not the sniper's fault giving you the power of choice, its the sniper's fault for limiting your options to "appease me or die". Same with hell. Thus, "free will" does not absolve either god or the sniper from responsibility for creating the situation. ETA::Furthermore, there are plenty of ways that the sniper, or god, could test free will that wouldn't involve death or torture for not buying it. There is no "appease me". The choice is whether or not one values life and the lives and rights of others, such as their sovereignty of will. This isn't a game like the politicians and folks in charge play, where they fake it. Edit: Note that God didn't force His will on anyone. When the religious authorities claimed to know and understand Him, they killed Him, because He did not comply to their demands. So, the "appease me" only applies to the men that require it, because God doesn't. |
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