User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2022 8:41:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gatorvet]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86: ... That's one of the co-founders of KRG, definitely not a "larper". His deployment photos have been posted in here plenty of times before. I figured it wasn’t a larper pic and that if a mil guy was using them the mount must not be that bad. Appreciate your reply and good info as always. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2022 9:06:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: UndrGrndPrdcts]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86: ... That's one of the co-founders of KRG, definitely not a "larper". His deployment photos have been posted in here plenty of times before. I have seen hi-speed video of an LT-104 before, and there's a lot of flexing going on in there. But at the time, it was one of the best options available for getting good eye relief on a flat-top AR upper. I haven't noticed some of the issues I've seen claimed in here with the mounts, nor the Recce rail, but everyone's going to do what they are convinced is right based on their own observations. Meanwhile others are still shooting issued glass in beat up old ARMS rings, on the early SPR guns where the whole setup is basically held in place by the SPR sleeve, and haven't experienced these issues out at 800+. At the end of the day it's supposed to be a clone thread. Right on. I torqued my recce rail down using pri's instructions, and with NF 107's I've have no issues. In my mind it makes almost a monolithic upper when done properly. Eta: last group I shot with new varmint load (100 yards not 300 like the sticker says  ).  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2022 10:25:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lancecriminal86: I have seen hi-speed video of an LT-104 before, and there's a lot of flexing going on in there. But at the time, it was one of the best options available for getting good eye relief on a flat-top AR upper. I haven't noticed some of the issues I've seen claimed in here with the mounts, nor the Recce rail, but everyone's going to do what they are convinced is right based on their own observations. Meanwhile others are still shooting issued glass in beat up old ARMS rings, on the early SPR guns where the whole setup is basically held in place by the SPR sleeve, and haven't experienced these issues out at 800+. At the end of the day it's supposed to be a clone thread. Major thumbs up. Thanks for the info as always Lance. The info you, Hunterex, and others provide are blessing to the clone community, as always. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2022 4:44:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Well I’m am set up and beyond happy! Thanks again Ringer!!
 I’d anyone needs a 1700 case minus the foam shoot me a email. I have a extra one I stole the foam out years ago. It’s brand new. These were made in or about the end of 2011 based on the date markings on mine. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2022 4:49:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mstennes: Well I’m am set up and beyond happy! Thanks again Ringer!! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/85971/79EDC496-A6AE-487F-AD61-0C57C6628CF9-2247663.jpg I’d anyone needs a 1700 case minus the foam shoot me a email. I have a extra one I stole the foam out years ago. It’s brand new. These were made in or about the end of 2011 based on the date markings on mine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/85971/6AB6486C-CE0F-413E-9E1D-6609E5FE2172-2247670.jpg Email sent. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 7:09:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yumago]
[#6]
My foam was going to be delivered yesterday and never did. Even said out for delivery
 Hopefully gets delivered today 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 8:44:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yumago: My foam was going to be delivered yesterday and never did. Even said out for delivery Hopefully gets delivered today Fingers crossed! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 1:17:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yumago]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ringer706: Fingers crossed! Good news! It got delivered yesterday, my app never updated and my dad never told me. Going to pick it up tomorrow  If anyone has a lead on the correct sling, and adapters for a Mod 1 that would be great. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 8:04:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks Ringer
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 11:16:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Anyone have a surplus case with a label still in tact? If so, would you mind measuring the paper size? I don't believe it's normal 8.5'' x 11'' and am trying to get the right size.
Thanks in advance!  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2022 11:22:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dav606: Thanks Ringer https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/390882/F71B09F8-103A-496D-A683-8EEDE99BB4FA-2249424.jpg Looks great! Thank YOU! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 1:25:45 AM EDT
[#12]
For those interested, Lou with ballisticards just confirmed he was able to retrieve all three versions of the Black Hills branded ballisticards (standard, deltamax, and the appendix D) from his archives and has agreed to do a limited run for us through ringer since he's technically retired. Pretty cool stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 9:40:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yumago]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Bucket: For those interested, Lou with ballisticards just confirmed he was able to retrieve all three versions of the Black Hills branded ballisticards (standard, deltamax, and the appendix D) from his archives and has agreed to do a limited run for us through ringer since he's technically retired. Pretty cool stuff.  You guys are magic. What's the difference between the three? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 9:55:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yumago: You guys are magic. What's the difference between the three? See page 1093 |
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 1:33:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Got bored and repainted the MK12. Hopefully this will suffice for a little longer.
Also, finally did receive my OCM5 to my dealer 87 days from my initial order. Submitted paperwork and hopefully silencer shop will generate my eform before March lol 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 3:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Yumago]
[#16]
Lost the thread protector for the AEM brake
Luckily the can will live on the gun most of the time. Great job on the foam Ringer, worth every penny  Edit: Ordered one from Allen himself. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 3:29:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thatdtmsguy: Got bored and repainted the MK12. Hopefully this will suffice for a little longer. Also, finally did receive my OCM5 to my dealer 87 days from my initial order. Submitted paperwork and hopefully silencer shop will generate my eform before March lol https://i.postimg.cc/rmz4s3dx/IMG-0544.jpg Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, when I ran over there on Monday they were closed and then was out of town this past week. When I called yesterday they were "waiting on my FFL information to transfer it" even though I have spoke with them twice before about picking up from them directly. Needless to say I dont think I'll be using them or recommending them any after this experience. Glad to hear you got yours to your FFL though. On the other hand it was great to meet @ringer706 to pickup my foam and accessories and will hopefully be getting some pictures posted later on today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2022 11:42:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cheekibreeki]
[#18]
Here are the results of an 18" Ballistic Advantage barrel, item # BABL223021PQ bought from Ballistic Advantage. I have been having issues getting even repeatable 5 shot groups, so I tried a variety of loads today. The barrel has had about 130 rnds fired through it before this, and was thoroughly cleaned before today's session. I fired about 15 M193 rounds to foul the barrel, and then let it cool before checking with the "precision" stuff. For extra info, the barrel was was installed with shim stock to require a thermal press-fit, and 45-50 ft-lb of torque is on the FF RAS barrel nut.
I used factory 69 gr Federal Gold Medal Match, and then reloads. My reloads had the commonality of: Lake City once-fired brass freshly annealed. Full-length sized. CCI #450 Primers 1.750" trim length All projectiles seated to magazine length of 2.250"-2.255" Powder thrown with RCBS Chargemaster. 77 gr SMK with Varget 53 gr SMK with Ramshot TAC Shot from bench to 100 yards with AEM5 installed and NXS 3.5-15 F1 optic. Standard Harris and a rear bag for support. Conditions were 1-3 mph wind and 25 degrees F. 30.28 in pressure. 3 & 5 shots for factory ammo, and then 5 shots for the rest. I prefer 10 shot groups, but things that don't do well with a 5 shot are not bound to do well with 10 if you test more... 69 gr Federal GMM Results     53 gr SMK    77 gr SMK   Overall, a quite disappointing barrel in my opinion. I get that it is $175, but other than looking the part for a Mk12 it doesn't deserve the place. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 12:47:43 AM EDT
[#19]
I know that Ballistic Advantage does not have a procedure for drilling their gas ports evenly into a land of the barrel rifling. I'd be curious to know what your gas port looks like. And then get further data points on gas ports on BA barrels that perform well. Could be that some people get lucky with a well positioned gas port and others get shafted.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 1:39:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tactical_Bucket: I know that Ballistic Advantage does not have a procedure for drilling their gas ports evenly into a land of the barrel rifling. I'd be curious to know what your gas port looks like. And then get further data points on gas ports on BA barrels that perform well. Could be that some people get lucky with a well positioned gas port and others get shafted. The positioning of the gas port on this isn't much different than the high end barrels people use as examples for where to position a gas port. That location if anything seems like a trivial item compared to the rest of the barrel. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 4:25:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Overall, a quite disappointing barrel in my opinion. I get that it is $175, but other than looking the part for a Mk12 it doesn't deserve the place. You get what you pay for. I think I heard that term a lot and I stay true to it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 4:26:17 AM EDT
[#22]
I'm certain that it does. Kreiger specifically aligns their barrels so that the gas port does not cut through an uneven portion of the rifling.. Ballistic Advantage chucks the barrel up and drills the gas port at random. This machining process produces burrs and an uneven portion of rifling that negatively impacts accuracy, which is exactly why Kreiger puts so much effort into gas port positioning. Do you have a borescope? Inspect your rifling.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 11:23:24 AM EDT
[#23]
BA's website say they have a sub-MOA guarantee. Contact them and see if you can get a new barrel. I'd get the new barrel and sell it. Use the money towards a higher end barrel.
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 1:26:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: Here are the results of an 18" Ballistic Advantage barrel, item # BABL223021PQ bought from Ballistic Advantage. I have been having issues getting even repeatable 5 shot groups, so I tried a variety of loads today. The barrel has had about 130 rnds fired through it before this, and was thoroughly cleaned before today's session. I fired about 15 M193 rounds to foul the barrel, and then let it cool before checking with the "precision" stuff. For extra info, the barrel was was installed with shim stock to require a thermal press-fit, and 45-50 ft-lb of torque is on the FF RAS barrel nut. I used factory 69 gr Federal Gold Medal Match, and then reloads. My reloads had the commonality of: Lake City once-fired brass freshly annealed. Full-length sized. CCI #450 Primers 1.750" trim length All projectiles seated to magazine length of 2.250"-2.255" Powder thrown with RCBS Chargemaster. 77 gr SMK with Varget 53 gr SMK with Ramshot TAC Shot from bench to 100 yards with AEM5 installed and NXS 3.5-15 F1 optic. Standard Harris and a rear bag for support. Conditions were 1-3 mph wind and 25 degrees F. 30.28 in pressure. 3 & 5 shots for factory ammo, and then 5 shots for the rest. I prefer 10 shot groups, but things that don't do well with a 5 shot are not bound to do well with 10 if you test more... 69 gr Federal GMM Results https://i.imgur.com/4K9kTgP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eR7ZPwA.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YoihBT6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7mjKlla.jpg 53 gr SMK https://i.imgur.com/pUhybkT.jpg https://i.imgur.com/eqDVuhw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/jc0Ruk0.jpg 77 gr SMK https://i.imgur.com/vXhIQju.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0v2tl29.jpg Overall, a quite disappointing barrel in my opinion. I get that it is $175, but other than looking the part for a Mk12 it doesn't deserve the place. i suggest bison or woa if u wanna be @$200 price point.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 10:21:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cheekibreeki]
[#25]
I picked up my prior 18" WOA barrel and tried it out today with the same loads. With only 4 of the FGMM 69 SMK (all I had left), they grouped into 0.32". Three five-shot groupings of 24.5 gr AA 2520 and a 77 SMK grouped 0.78", 0.81" and 0.84". If they weren't such a pain to get due to waitlist, I'd buy another.
  
|
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 10:23:21 PM EDT
[#26]
There many mk12 barrels out there and the decision is tough, but it comes down to how much you want to spend, in my case had the same issue selecting my barrel but I remembered an old saying from a friend, you buy once and cry once and I went with the CLE Douglas barrel,waited three months for it and don’t regret it, also if you are looking for sub moa 5shot group(depend on ammo) get a bolt gun, this a 1moa or better combat rifle, sometimes we have to be realistic, not all barrel shots the same.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 10:27:00 PM EDT
[#27]
I'll be ordering a Douglas barrel this week unless CLE has a reasonable backlog when talking on the phone.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 11:57:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: I'll be ordering a Douglas barrel this week unless CLE has a reasonable backlog when talking on the phone. Order it and wait. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 12:10:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: I'll be ordering a Douglas barrel this week unless CLE has a reasonable backlog when talking on the phone. Mine took 3 months. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 12:43:10 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: I'll be ordering a Douglas barrel this week unless CLE has a reasonable backlog when talking on the phone. My vote is go with the Douglas. May have to wait a bit but it's well worth it. Clone correct and shoots lights out 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 7:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: edwin907]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cheekibreeki: I'll be ordering a Douglas barrel this week unless CLE has a reasonable backlog when talking on the phone. My Douglas SPR barrel was $175 cheaper than a CLE Krieger SPR (included bolt) but shoots MK262 very well suppressed or not. I am a bigger factor than the difference between the barrels almost every day. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 9:29:00 AM EDT
[#32]
My Douglas shoots tiny little holes.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 9:58:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Speaking of medium 22’s, is this the going price for ARMS #22’s now?
ARMS #22 medium no stop |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 10:08:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mstennes: Speaking of medium 22’s, is this the going price for ARMS #22’s now? ARMS #22 medium no stop Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 10:35:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Engineer5: Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Engineer5: Originally Posted By mstennes: Speaking of medium 22’s, is this the going price for ARMS #22’s now? ARMS #22 medium no stop Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? At least the FF RAS was a 99167, but still ridiculous for $600. If anyone pays $425 for a set of ARMS rings they've been duped. Not only are the rings not great to begin with, but they're still in production today. New set has a lever stop? Chop it off. I think Haveblue83 eats the things! But all things considered, I guess this is where we are now. Feel like I'm holding AMC or GME or something and debating when to cash out. 
|
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 10:39:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: At least the FF RAS was a 99167, but still ridiculous for $600. If anyone pays $425 for a set of ARMS rings they've been duped. Not only are the rings not great to begin with, but they're still in production today. New set has a lever stop? Chop it off. I think Haveblue83 eats the things! But all things considered, I guess this is where we are now. Feel like I'm holding AMC or GME or something and debating when to cash out. Sold a long RAS for $675. They’ve gone as high as $750-800 on here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Sold a long RAS for $675. They’ve gone as high as $750-800 on here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: At least the FF RAS was a 99167, but still ridiculous for $600. If anyone pays $425 for a set of ARMS rings they've been duped. Not only are the rings not great to begin with, but they're still in production today. New set has a lever stop? Chop it off. I think Haveblue83 eats the things! But all things considered, I guess this is where we are now. Feel like I'm holding AMC or GME or something and debating when to cash out. Sold a long RAS for $675. They’ve gone as high as $750-800 on here. A sucker is born every day. Though if they got what they wanted then I guess more power to them. |
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 2:47:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edwin907: My Douglas SPR barrel was $175 cheaper than a CLE Krieger SPR (included bolt) but shoots MK262 very well suppressed or not. I am a bigger factor than the difference between the barrels almost every day. For what it is worth, I am going to be selling a MK4 MR/T 3-9 ILL with, ARD, 22Ms (late-hump) and Tactical Cap and Rail and would like to offer it here before placing it on the EE. Superb condition, purchased back in 2004. No reasonable offer refused, much prefer to sell it here rather than some eBay reseller, contact me via ar15 mail. https://i.imgur.com/u5gBHln.jpg PM sent |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 2:50:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Engineer5: Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? The group had this same conversation a few months ago. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 2:55:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: The group had this same conversation a few months ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By Engineer5: Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? The group had this same conversation a few months ago. Were still in shock over prices being paid. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 3:00:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: At least the FF RAS was a 99167, but still ridiculous for $600. If anyone pays $425 for a set of ARMS rings they've been duped. Not only are the rings not great to begin with, but they're still in production today. New set has a lever stop? Chop it off. I think Haveblue83 eats the things! But all things considered, I guess this is where we are now. Feel like I'm holding AMC or GME or something and debating when to cash out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Originally Posted By Engineer5: Originally Posted By mstennes: Speaking of medium 22’s, is this the going price for ARMS #22’s now? ARMS #22 medium no stop Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? At least the FF RAS was a 99167, but still ridiculous for $600. If anyone pays $425 for a set of ARMS rings they've been duped. Not only are the rings not great to begin with, but they're still in production today. New set has a lever stop? Chop it off. I think Haveblue83 eats the things! But all things considered, I guess this is where we are now. Feel like I'm holding AMC or GME or something and debating when to cash out. I agree, some days I just want to get it all out list it, and buy something else, but then I’d be itching to do another and couldn’t afford it, but who knows? I started the one I have now in 2010 I want to say, maybe 2011? Had another before that and sold only to want another. Now I look at cost to build and prices being paid. I picked up a NSW REECE upper off the EE, I’m seriously thinking of selling it without doing anything for the fact I bought to many other things over the last few weeks making it hard to jump on the 2.5x10x24 in the EE right now and it seems feast or famine with those. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 3:48:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: The group had this same conversation a few months ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By Engineer5: Did you see the FF long RAS that sold for $600? The group had this same conversation a few months ago. I know. The one I was referring to happened just the other day. I would have thought that most people interested in the MK12 platform would be visiting and reading this thread. I guess not. |
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 4:02:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stainlineho]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mstennes: I agree, some days I just want to get it all out list it, and buy something else, but then I’d be itching to do another and couldn’t afford it, but who knows? I started the one I have now in 2010 I want to say, maybe 2011? Had another before that and sold only to want another. Now I look at cost to build and prices being paid. I picked up a NSW REECE upper off the EE, I’m seriously thinking of selling it without doing anything for the fact I bought to many other things over the last few weeks making it hard to jump on the 2.5x10x24 in the EE right now and it seems feast or famine with those. Been quite a few x24's posted in the EE lately, but the C538 is the one. I wouldn't sell that NSW Recce upper....but if you do...PM me. I may be interested. EDIT: Damn, that C538 is gone, wonder what that guy paid. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 6:22:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Markius-Fox]
[#44]
I haven't shared photos of my build as it currently is. Mainly because I was waiting for things to come in.
Ringer, love ya man. Great stuff with the...well, everything. Looking forward to the ballisticards (fingers crossed). I actually did a quick tally of how much I've put into this rifle thusfar. It comes to $4,052.45, minus taxes and shipping costs. So, figure in the cost of a scope (looking for a 57055), the scope rings, scope ring cap, scope ring cap rail, A1 lower, sling, magazines (yes, I know I have one 20 Round in the picture, it's one of 2 that I swiped when I was in the NG), the suppressor, and replacement components for the cleaning kit; we're looking at around 6k or more. Never imagined I'd get this far in this build with some of the unobtainium parts. I'm loving every minute of it Anyway, without further ado, PICTURES FOR THE PICTURE THREAD:  
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 6:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Markius-Fox: I haven't shared photos of my build as it currently is. Mainly because I was waiting for things to come in. Ringer, love ya man. Great stuff with the...well, everything. Looking forward to the ballisticards (fingers crossed). I actually did a quick tally of how much I've put into this rifle thusfar. It comes to $4,052.45, minus taxes and shipping costs. So, figure in the cost of a scope (looking for a 57055), the scope rings, scope ring cap, scope ring cap rail, A1 lower, sling, magazines (yes, I know I have one 20 Round in the picture, it's one of 2 that I swiped when I was in the NG), the suppressor, and replacement components for the cleaning kit; we're looking at around 6k or more. Never imagined I'd get this far in this build with some of the unobtainium parts. I'm loving every minute of it Anyway, without further ado, PICTURES FOR THE PICTURE THREAD: https://i.imgur.com/JDlGKNL.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hQ14k53.jpg Looking great! Love seeing some late mod 0 action. If you're interested in getting the side rails done (to add more costs on top of what you already listed, LOL) reach out to HaveBlue83. His brother is doing a set for me right now for my mod H. Will remove the PRI USA and the beveled edges of the side pic rails. If you wanna take it to that level. It's a beautiful build already. Grats on that build! It's a beauty! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 6:42:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Looking great! Love seeing some late mod 0 action. If you're interested in getting the side rails done (to add more costs on top of what you already listed, LOL) reach out to HaveBlue83. His brother is doing a set for me right now for my mod H. Will remove the PRI USA and the beveled edges of the side pic rails. If you wanna take it to that level. It's a beautiful build already. Grats on that build! It's a beauty! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Originally Posted By Markius-Fox: I haven't shared photos of my build as it currently is. Mainly because I was waiting for things to come in. Ringer, love ya man. Great stuff with the...well, everything. Looking forward to the ballisticards (fingers crossed). I actually did a quick tally of how much I've put into this rifle thusfar. It comes to $4,052.45, minus taxes and shipping costs. So, figure in the cost of a scope (looking for a 57055), the scope rings, scope ring cap, scope ring cap rail, A1 lower, sling, magazines (yes, I know I have one 20 Round in the picture, it's one of 2 that I swiped when I was in the NG), the suppressor, and replacement components for the cleaning kit; we're looking at around 6k or more. Never imagined I'd get this far in this build with some of the unobtainium parts. I'm loving every minute of it Anyway, without further ado, PICTURES FOR THE PICTURE THREAD: https://i.imgur.com/JDlGKNL.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hQ14k53.jpg Looking great! Love seeing some late mod 0 action. If you're interested in getting the side rails done (to add more costs on top of what you already listed, LOL) reach out to HaveBlue83. His brother is doing a set for me right now for my mod H. Will remove the PRI USA and the beveled edges of the side pic rails. If you wanna take it to that level. It's a beautiful build already. Grats on that build! It's a beauty!  It’s only money. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 6:46:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Been quite a few x24's posted in the EE lately, but the C538 is the one. I wouldn't sell that NSW Recce upper....but if you do...PM me. I may be interested. EDIT: Damn, that C538 is gone, wonder what that guy paid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Originally Posted By mstennes: I agree, some days I just want to get it all out list it, and buy something else, but then I’d be itching to do another and couldn’t afford it, but who knows? I started the one I have now in 2010 I want to say, maybe 2011? Had another before that and sold only to want another. Now I look at cost to build and prices being paid. I picked up a NSW REECE upper off the EE, I’m seriously thinking of selling it without doing anything for the fact I bought to many other things over the last few weeks making it hard to jump on the 2.5x10x24 in the EE right now and it seems feast or famine with those. Been quite a few x24's posted in the EE lately, but the C538 is the one. I wouldn't sell that NSW Recce upper....but if you do...PM me. I may be interested. EDIT: Damn, that C538 is gone, wonder what that guy paid. My thing is though, I’ve spent so damn much on this late MOD 0, my Block 2, then the URGI I’m scared of what will happen if I keep it……… |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 8:48:26 PM EDT
[#48]
I don't have hobbies to make money.
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 10:29:30 PM EDT
[#49]
I have just under $5500 in mine. Shopped around and built my Mod 1 over about 8 years. That includes can and everything except the pelican case (have all the ringer parts) and some mags for the case.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/24/2022 11:07:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Engineer5: I don't have hobbies to make money. I'm with ya there. Just astonished by the price creep these past 2 years. Very glad I did my builds when I did. That said, I could always use one more.
|
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
