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Posted: 8/20/2026 5:44:10 PM EDT
| What's my options for price, reliability and known for good groups? |
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More than a few of my guns like this stuff. https://republicammunition.com/product/5-56x45-77gr-bthp-mk262-clone/ I've messaged the guy back and forth on instagram and he seems like a solid guy. Or if you want a different option, Bone frog carries good stuff too. https://www.bonefrogammunition.com/products/5-56-77gr-bone-frog-ammunition-barnes-match-burner-otm-bt-b556bmb77 https://www.bonefrogammunition.com/products/5-56-77gr-bone-frog-ammunition-sierra-tipped-matchking-tmk |
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Decent 223/5.56 match ammo is the one thing that doesn't seem to go on sale anymore. I've been waiting since 2019 to restock and haven't seen any deals. Pulled bullets show up every once in a while on American Reloading, which I guess is something. But it doesn't show up for much less than a buck around. Before the whole Corona thing, it could be had for 60 cpr without a lot of trouble, and sometimes cheaper. So my recommendation would be to start a friendship with a crazy old man and buy a DeLorean, which should give you access to good, reasonably priced match loads in respectable quantities. |
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Originally Posted By Nobody69s: More than a few of my guns like this stuff. https://republicammunition.com/product/5-56x45-77gr-bthp-mk262-clone/ I've messaged the guy back and forth on instagram and he seems like a solid guy. Or if you want a different option, Bone frog carries good stuff too. https://www.bonefrogammunition.com/products/5-56-77gr-bone-frog-ammunition-barnes-match-burner-otm-bt-b556bmb77 https://www.bonefrogammunition.com/products/5-56-77gr-bone-frog-ammunition-sierra-tipped-matchking-tmk The Bonefrog 77 match burner is a good load. I personally will steer clear from TMK loads if looking for absolute precision. I’ve found them to be more temperamental than their smk counterparts. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: The Bonefrog 77 match burner is a good load. I personally will steer clear from TMK loads if looking for absolute precision. I’ve found them to be more temperamental than their smk counterparts. I've had very good luck with 77 TMK's. IMO, it's what your barrel prefers. Your barrel may not like them, mine do. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Accuracy-Test-Bone-Frog-77TMK-200yds/16-790969/ |
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I came here to post up the AAC (from PSA) 5.56 77 grain OTM for 50 cents per round. Guess that ship has sailed. Maybe I better follow along on this thread. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Nobody69s: More than a few of my guns like this stuff. https://republicammunition.com/product/5-56x45-77gr-bthp-mk262-clone/ I've messaged the guy back and forth on instagram and he seems like a solid guy. I’ve also had good luck with the Velocity stuff. 77s doing around an inch or so, and the 85s printed a .8 or .9” group. |
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Originally Posted By TGH456E: I've had very good luck with 77 TMK's. IMO, it's what your barrel prefers. Your barrel may not like them, mine do. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Accuracy-Test-Bone-Frog-77TMK-200yds/16-790969/ There’s definitely some truth to what your barrel prefers. Just like with the Hornady 75gr HPBT. Some barrels love them, but they are a bit more finicky in my experience. For the TMK, I was speaking more about the variance from lot to lot and among different seating depths from manufacturers. I’ve yet to find a TMK load that will outperform an equivalent OTM/SMK load in raw precision lot after lot, box after box. That’s not to say they don’t shoot decent, I just don’t think they are as insensitive as the SMK’s. There are numerous SMK loads that I’d feel confident that I could get half moa 10 shot groups from in a few of my rifles. I can’t think of a single TMK load that I could say that for. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: There’s definitely some truth to what your barrel prefers. Just like with the Hornady 75gr HPBT. Some barrels love them, but they are a bit more finicky in my experience. For the TMK, I was speaking more about the variance from lot to lot and among different seating depths from manufacturers. I’ve yet to find a TMK load that will outperform an equivalent OTM/SMK load in raw precision lot after lot, box after box. That’s not to say they don’t shoot decent, I just don’t think they are as insensitive as the SMK’s. There are numerous SMK loads that I’d feel confident that I could get half moa 10 shot groups from in a few of my rifles. I can’t think of a single TMK load that I could say that for. Yes, in my opinion your first sentence is the key. FWIW, I've found shooting the H75 that they good but for me the Sierras are slightly more accurate. I'll be honest, I'm skeptical of just how many boxes, lots and brands of either you've shot but to each his own. But your last comments goes back to the first. Looking at your moniker and some of the tests you posted, you seem to use primarily long barreled bolt guns. Which is fine. Just like I usually use a 20" DCM/NM (whatever you want to call it) barreled AR15's. Which is fine. But then should it come as no surprise that we have different results? I'd agree that the 77 SMK has a very good track record and it is very hard to find a "bad load." But, but, never underestimate what a crappy barrel can do to groups even with a 77 SMK load. Just like if you start shooting "77 SMK like" bullets that aren't really Sierra bullets. There IS a difference. Lastly, and this just my experience, the TMK's have or can shoot very well- on par with the SMK. Why would I then pick the TMK's over the SMK's? The better BC. And if they are equally accurate, why wouldn't I? Considering the fact that for me and my uses, the LR use is a every day concern. |
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Originally Posted By TGH456E: Yes, in my opinion your first sentence is the key. FWIW, I've found shooting the H75 that they good but for me the Sierras are slightly more accurate. I'll be honest, I'm skeptical of just how many boxes, lots and brands of either you've shot but to each his own. But your last comments goes back to the first. Looking at your moniker and some of the tests you posted, you seem to use primarily long barreled bolt guns. Which is fine. Just like I usually use a 20" DCM/NM (whatever you want to call it) barreled AR15's. Which is fine. But then should it come as no surprise that we have different results? I'd agree that the 77 SMK has a very good track record and it is very hard to find a "bad load." But, but, never underestimate what a crappy barrel can do to groups even with a 77 SMK load. Just like if you start shooting "77 SMK like" bullets that aren't really Sierra bullets. There IS a difference. Lastly, and this just my experience, the TMK's have or can shoot very well- on par with the SMK. Why would I then pick the TMK's over the SMK's? The better BC. And if they are equally accurate, why wouldn't I? Considering the fact that for me and my uses, the LR use is an every day concern. Let’s see if I can address these items. As far as the TMK’s, I’ve shot the Black Hills, AAC and Bonefrog. Two different lots of BH and BF, and probably 6+ lots of AAC. Not a huge sample size, sure, but when each of those were fired against similar smk/bthp loads and the smk/bthp/otm variants performed better, it did appear that a trend was forming. I’ve also handloaded the 77tmk, and probably have a few hundred left somewhere in a box among 10k+ 69/77gr SMK’s. If they gave me a benefit, I’d buy them. For my LR bolt gun, I run the 75eld-M for the added BC, but they aren’t mag friendly for AR’s. As for the moniker….I was late to the party on creating a channel and name, or at least one dedicated to my passion for precision rifles. I went for something easy to remember that tied into my interests. In the precision rifle section, I’ve posted numerous groups/tests with AR’s, stemming back to 2018. I have a few AR’s and enjoy shooting them, but in testing raw performance of ammunition, I’m going to test initially with my bolt gun if I can since historically ammo that has shot well in it has also shot well in my AR’s. There is a lower chance for random fliers with a bolt gun vs an AR, so that’s my initial test platform. I’ll be testing more AR barrels in the future now that I have a great idea of what ammo would be suitable and available (I.e, if it shot like crap in my bolt gun, why would I buy 500+rds to shoot in my AR’s??). AR Precision Testing We could have different results and expectations. I’m using a 223 Wylde reamer that I’ve used for most of my chamberings. 10 plus barrels and they all shoot good factory match ammo around or under 1/2moa in my “proof” testing. 90% of my AR’s also have a 223 Wylde chamber. That’s not to say they are equals, but it aligns with trying to reduce as much variance as possible. I have no desire to use a 5.56 reamer on a bolt gun, but I have the reamer by the lathe if I ever felt the itch. There’s perhaps also a difference on what we consider to be significant differences. In most of your 200yd tests (which I enjoy reading), I believe you’re getting typically 3/4 to MOA results with good ammo. That’s good shooting with a AR. Some may be better, but I don’t have the time to look it up, so going from memory. I’m used to getting 1/4-3/8 moa from my handloads, and factory bthp/smk/otm loads that routinely get sub half moa in my bolt guns. Going from groups in the 0.4’s to groups in the 0.6-0.7 moa range is a huge difference to me, but likely not for everyone. It really boils down to use case and expectations. The TMK loads obviously work for you, and I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, I was just sharing my experience, which you appear to have taken personally. It’s like your disdain for the AAC ammo. You don’t like it for various reasons, and that’s fine, but it’s worked well for me, including being good enough to win local tactical matches. |
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57: Hornady Frontier FR320 Shoots well in a lot of guns and it’s actually loaded like 5.56 ammo I’ve shot like 8,000 rounds of it atleast I have also had good results with the FR320. I also like the FR262, but like the fr320, it's loaded hot and can pop primers on hot summer days. Fairly inexpensive and accurate for me though! I also agree with SuperJLarge about TMKs. I have 1 rifle that will reliability group well with it. And it will group really well. It's actually my main competition rifle and load. But for overall accuracy across many rifles, the SMK seems to be better. The TMKs seem to be more barrel picky than SMKs. Most of my stuff will n group the SMKs really well. Only 1 will do it with TMKs. SMKs are just more forgiving |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Let’s see if I can address these items. ....... The TMK loads obviously work for you, and I’m not trying to say you’re wrong, I was just sharing my experience, which you appear to have taken personally. It’s like your disdain for the AAC ammo. You don’t like it for various reasons, and that’s fine, but it’s worked well for me, including being good enough to win local tactical matches. You are taking all this WAY TOO seriously. You share your results, I share mine. And people here can read both and take what they want out of them. Thats it. I consider yours just like anyone else- there's nothing personal about that. And for the most part, our results mirror one another- good ammo shoots well. But this is a technical forum and I try to be clear in my comments. Nor do I have any distain for AAC or their products. As you remember I've tested several of their loads and publicly posted it here. They shot very well. But If I'm going to waste my time posting about this or that ammo, I'm going to include ALL my observations so readers can decide for themselves. See sentences 2-4 above. So if AAC brass sucks, I post it. If X ammo isn't sealed, I post it. So I give all the info I have- Readers here are smart, if it matters to them, they'll note it. If not, gloss over it. |
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Originally Posted By Teller_Ulam: I have also had good results with the FR320. I also like the FR262, but like the fr320, it's loaded hot and can pop primers on hot summer days. Fairly inexpensive and accurate for me though! I also agree with SuperJLarge about TMKs. I have 1 rifle that will reliability group well with it. And it will group really well. It's actually my main competition rifle and load. But for overall accuracy across many rifles, the SMK seems to be better. The TMKs seem to be more barrel picky than SMKs. Most of my stuff will n group the SMKs really well. Only 1 will do it with TMKs. SMKs are just more forgiving I like that FR262 as well, tested it several times: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Frontier-FR262-SG-mk262-200yd-test/16-793404/? And here's a link to the second and third: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/3rd-Test-FR262-Suppressed-at-200yds/16-793476/ |
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I have shot a fair amount of the Frontier 75gr match in the .223 loading. My son has been shooting the 5.56 version. Stated velocity for both is the same, and it is fairly hot. Accuracy has been a little mixed for me, but I have used it to 600 yds with reasonable results. |
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Originally Posted By jayt320: When the IMI razorcore comes back in stock I'll definitely be grabbing some. It's priced lower then a lot of other 77 grain stuff and shoots better then a lot of it too. At least in my experience. |
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Originally Posted By miller12: I checked for that at midway. All out of stock Yeah man it's probably been close to six months since I've seen it on Midway. I've heard it's something to do with what's going on in the middle east but that's total speculation. I'm currently buying gold dots from the recoil gunworks people. Pretty great prices over there on all the different weights. |
| TMKS are known to be more sensitive to oal than SMKs. If you can load to the jump they like, they shoot. If you don't find how far from the rifling they like in your rifle, you won't have as good results. Most like 10 to 20 thousandths off. The smk was designed for mag length loading, and is relatively insensitive to oal compared to many other bullets. We shoot high power and talk to lots of folks, and that's been the consistent concensus for a long time. Times have moved on to Berger 80.8 gr bullets loaded past mag length for 600. They're what's winning. 77 smk are still top for mag length. H75, Barnes MB, Nosler CC, etc. are all really good, but all considered just a hair less universally consistent and barrel neutral. I have no dog in this fight. I've shot them all, but that's coming from hundreds to thousands of competitors at local and national matches. Buying factory ammo is going to be a compromise, and everything is going to be mag length. If you shoot much, some additional TE may change what they shoot best as the throat lengthens. Best of luck |
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Originally Posted By a390st: TMKS are known to be more sensitive to oal than SMKs. If you can load to the jump they like, they shoot. If you don't find how far from the rifling they like in your rifle, you won't have as good results. Most like 10 to 20 thousandths off. The smk was designed for mag length loading, and is relatively insensitive to oal compared to many other bullets. We shoot high power and talk to lots of folks, and that's been the consistent concensus for a long time. Times have moved on to Berger 80.8 gr bullets loaded past mag length for 600. They're what's winning. 77 smk are still top for mag length. H75, Barnes MB, Nosler CC, etc. are all really good, but all considered just a hair less universally consistent and barrel neutral. I have no dog in this fight. I've shot them all, but that's coming from hundreds to thousands of competitors at local and national matches. Buying factory ammo is going to be a compromise, and everything is going to be mag length. If you shoot much, some additional TE may change what they shoot best as the throat lengthens. Best of luck @a390st: Thanks for your input! We've probably shot together, maybe even on the same point. I've shot all across the US, Perry Numerous-endless- times, etc etc Quantico, Pendleton. Military Matches etc Even made it up to Canada. You name it- I've shot there. It's alot of fun and very challenging. But enough of our autobiographies. I'll disagree with you over two thoughts you brought up: -the National record setting SR folks I shoot with (and my experience too) is it's a waste of time "chasing the lands." I'll provide some results of mine that illustrate my point- or more correctly my experiences shortly. -Likewise I found with the 77TMK's that it is a waste of time adjusting or whatever you call it the OAL of the load. I dont know if it was designed for 2.25 like the SMK, but fiddling with it is a waste of time. You'll find the best accuracy at 2.25 and around 2750 w/20" barrel. Done. First Story: How I got "into" the TMK's. Shooting a multi day regional and for mid range- 600yds I decided to try the "new" BHA loaded 77tmk's. ( so 600yds prone, with sling, and I was shooting iron sights at the time) Shot a 197, 200-12x, 198. (For the non SR shooters- that means with factory BHA- that 200-12x means 12 of the 20 record shots were within an MOA and the other 8 inside a 2MOA). So I start handloading it- yep 2.25 and drive them around 2750fps with 20" SR barrel. Here some results posted here on this forum: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Accuracy-Test-Bone-Frog-77TMK-200yds/16-790969/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Another-200yd-test-The-77TMK-s-Reload-vs-PSA-vs-BHA/16-782209/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-200yd-Groups-Velocities-of-Winchester-62OT-mk318-64-GD-and-others-/16-744061/? Story 2: If you look thru those results I used a test barreled upper thru to 5000 rds, didn't adjust the OAL length or chase the lands nothing. Just shoot it. And with those results why would I? And heres one of Molons test of it: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/black-hills-5-56mm-77-grain-tipped-matchking-accuracy-evaluation-update.7183638/ Story 3: Today I shot an upper with a NEW match grade barrel on it (Not a Krieger BTW). It has exactly 20rds on it. I didn't measure the lands and TBH, didnt even check the headspace. Literally just built it up, threw a spare BCG into it and zeroed it. This group is with my Standard 77 TMK load which I made, IDK, a couple years ago and have been using in all these tests. This is a 10 shot 200yd benched group, mk4 scope on top, fishtailing 12mph winds, gusting to 16- all from the 6:00 (my back). https://imgur.com/a/XqfjxJI If you click on it, it'll enlarge. I was sortta sloppy and under better conditions, it'd be a true sub MOA group. As it is just a hair over MOA at 200yds. I've said this numerous times: For me the 77 TMK's shoot well in my barrels. YMMV. |
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Anybody ever try this stuff? https://sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/50-round-box-5-56mm-77-grain-otm-factory-seconds-black-hills-ammo-s556n9-read-description-notice/ Also, why not 69gr SMK Match? |
| This thread suits my interests. Curious what would be the better buy. The frontier 77grs or Frogbone 77grs? The frontier is more attractive in that it can be had for about $170/200 box that comes with a plastic tote. The Bonefrog is $1pr and comes in 50 round boxes or a 500 round case. Anybody experienced overpressure in the frontiers? Rifle is a Franken build with a 16" 1/8 twist Faxon Gunner profile. I assume 1/8 is good enough to stabilize 77gr right? |
What it boils down to is that they fear an effective resistance to their power: So, Left in power=Guns bad, mmmmkay...?, Right in power=Guns good!-thskirk
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Has anyone tried this ammunition? Republic Ammunition 5.56 85gr BTHP match |
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Originally Posted By doom1430: Has anyone tried this ammunition? Republic Ammunition 5.56 85gr BTHP match Attached File Yup, here’s a sub MOA 5rd group from my 16”. Shot it to 804yds in my 13.9. |
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