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Posted: 9/21/2019 9:46:05 PM EDT
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So I was curious about the Winchester 62 OT match has been discussed here lately and thought I'd shoot some groups with it. Here is a photo album of the set up and some results: https://imgur.com/gallery/qUKfRek The range and set up: All shots were at 200yds and slow fire (so I'd shoot one, dry fire one, etc), off the bench-sandbagged. All groups were 10 shots and fired without attempting to call wind. Alpha Chronograph set up 15ft in front of muzzle. If I did change ammunition, I would bore-snake the bore to clean it out. No cherry-picking or excuses the groups were what they were. Uppers: The uppers were switched around over a standard A2 AR lower with Geissele trigger in it. The Krieger is a 20" 1/7.7 match chamber with around 959rds on it. The HBAR is a 20" 1/7 Colt upper (standard Colt Upper) with around 351 rds on it. The SP1 is an surplus M16 upper (20" 1/12 twist) bought a long-time ago, unknown count. The scope for the Krieger and HBAR is a Leupold MK4 that I switched back/forth on. Validation Groups: The Krieger: I have a hand loaded 77TMK load that shoots extremely well. And that is what you see there: a true sub MOA group. The HBAR: For a standard COLT barrel it can shoot pretty well: That group is also a handloaded 77 SMK load. Ammo/Groups: The mk318/ WIN 62 OT group: Shot with the HBAR, It shows the typical groups I was getting with those two. I shot that to see about comments that those two may have the same trajectory. For me they don't. Those two groups are about 4'" from each other and total spread is about 10.7." With those results, if you use 12" as a target, past 200, you'd really be struggling. Now, 200 and in: accept the different POI and you could! (PS....The 2 groups were shot one after the other, same sight settings and sight picture) WIN 62 OT best group: Shot with the Krieger, I found the ammo to be around 2MOA groupings. It's not Match grade ammunition and with the poor BC of the 62 OT (Here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Winchester-62-OT-Ballistic-Coeffiecient-/16-743962/ ) means past 200yds, you'd really be struggling with the accuracy of this. mk318 best group: Also shot with the Krieger, other groups were more around 3MOA, particularly with the HBAR. Gold Dot 64gr: Shot with the Krieger, as with the mk318, the HBAR was more around 3MOA. I didn't call that one shot, so the groups is what it is. M855A1: Shot with the HBAR, it's USGI LC 12. And it shoots like USGI ammo. The 55SX handload group: Shot with the SP1, it reminds me that you can shoot 2MOA with a iron sighted, rickety upper and mass produced handloads. So some of this other stuff isn't too special after all, accuracy wise. Velocities: Win 62OT: I didn't like shooting it thru the Krieger ( I had slight swiping going on) though it shot the best generally. It was running 3167 Ave (66 ES) and the HBAR was 3098 ave (46ES), 3034 ave (75 ES), and 3035 ave (54ES). So it was, maybe, sorrta running around 100fps slower in the HBAR. BTW: For those you focused on speeds, the ES of all HBAR groups was 2999fps-3202fps. So a variation of 203FPS. The mk318: Shot better in the Krieger and but maybe slightly slower in the HBAR. But no swipes. Krieger: 3109 ave (79ES) and HBAR: 3126 ave (83ES), 3039 ave (68ES). I'd have to shoot more groups to see the difference. Gold Dot 64's: Running 2917fps ave (61ES) thru the Krieger and 2899fps ave (106ES) thru the HBAR. M855A1: Shot thru the HBAR, 3061fps ave (63ES). 55SX: SP1.....Handload of H335 running 2936fps ave (28ES). My take aways from all this: -Handloads can be accurate and "Match" quality. -The WIN 62OT, mk318 and GD 64 all pretty much shot the same: around 2-3MOA. The advantage to the WIN 62OT is for about the same price as LC loadings, it probably does shoot better than the LC stuff. And I'd shoot the mk318 and 64GD for the bullet and not accuracy. (In other words, the terminal ballistics). Because none of these will do well past 300yds, but then that is what the 77SMK if for. |
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Good stuff.
I agree, this stuff wont hold a candle to a 77SMK. The value prop in this ammo, is at 29 cents per round, there is really nothing else even close to that price point with that kind of bullet/velocity/quality. The cheapest 77SMK is likely the Magtech at 55 cents per. |
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Very informational. Thank you for sharing. Given the "tighter chamber / throat dimensions" on the Krieger, its not much of a surprise it was faster, and more abused brass with the 62gr OTM. I am surprised the MK318 didn't show "brass abuse" from the Krieger. My stash of it, doesn't like any chamber other then 5.56 NATO with its long throat. |
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Quoted:
Good stuff. I agree, this stuff wont hold a candle to a 77SMK. The value prop in this ammo, is at 29 cents per round, there is really nothing else even close to that price point with that kind of bullet/velocity/quality. The cheapest 77SMK is likely the Magtech at 55 cents per. Yes..... a good 77SMK/TMK is very hard to beat accuracy wise. I've also gotten good groups with the Magtech 77...…. just my 2% here, if you are chasing accuracy out of a reasonably priced factory load, try that first. I'm not trashing the WIN 62 load at all. I just shoot a lot of MR and LR and so from my perspective, I can see it's limitations. Bfoosh: Very informational. Thank you for sharing. Given the "tighter chamber / throat dimensions" on the Krieger, its not much of a surprise it was faster, and more abused brass with the 62gr OTM. I am surprised the MK318 didn't show "brass abuse" from the Krieger. My stash of it, doesn't like any chamber other then 5.56 NATO with its long throat. I do like my Krieger Barrels...… they can SHOOT! My 20" SR upper that I shoot at 1000yds, with 3534rds on it, is still going strong! But yes, they do have a tight chamber. The case "inspection" was visual but nothing noted...….maybe if I measured or carefully looked before /after? ?? |
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My brass from the Mk318 visually showed ejector smear and roughed up extractor marks. I rarely measure the cases... visual signs are good enough for me. Thanks again for the report. I have been "avoiding" the 62gr OTM Winc. .... because I am a ammo whore.... And if it shoots good, then I am compelled to overstock. Lol |
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Quoted:
My brass from the Mk318 visually showed ejector smear and roughed up extractor marks. I rarely measure the cases... visual signs are good enough for me. Thanks again for the report. I have been "avoiding" the 62gr OTM Winc. .... because I am a ammo whore.... And if it shoots good, then I am compelled to overstock. Lol I specifically look at the brass when I'm done and would notice/report that. The Krieger is at 950rds or so, so it might be, slightly, looser in the throat, than new but not nearly enough make a difference. The chamber is what they call "223 Long Range" and what I always get. So it's SAMMI spec but tight. How's this for a teaser...….. I did the same test with the WIN 62, LC M855 and PMC Bronze (M193)….. I'll post that today. It was just 30 rds.... but interesting. :) |
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