User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 7:47:28 PM EDT
[#1]
We can touch up 223 bolts, no prob, we do them in bulk for 458 SOCOM anyway ... You could always be "sloppy" and use a 6.8 bolt with a 223 extractor  Working on barrels. Gen 2 we're making some progress, need to do the prototypes - might have some folks here do a BETA test on them .... keeps me from having to shoot lots of ammo ... lack of time and shooting into the trap (indoor) is getting old ... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 7:58:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Bibs on the BETA testing. We have tons of ammo. 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 8:33:30 PM EDT
[#3]
I have over 14,000 rds of 5.45X39mm on hand. I also have access to a machine shop and all of the tools to assemble/disassemble AR uppers. If I can be of service as a tester, I am available.
All that I would need would be a barrel with extention, FSB, and gas tube, a bolt, and a couple of mag followers. I am not looking for any freebies here fellas. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 1:52:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Also interested in Beta testing if necessary, and I'm local in Fort Worth
ETA: Anyone know about the trajectory of the 5.45x39? Will a standard A2 FSB and an A1 upper work? I'm starting to collect parts.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 4:58:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Very interested.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 5:35:55 PM EDT
[#6]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 6:42:45 PM EDT
[#7]
I am going to tag this but I know what the wife will say.....Not another calibur of ammo.......I just need to know the price and then I will have to see what this does to the price of 5.45x39 ammo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 7:05:30 PM EDT
[#8]
I would sure like a 20 inch stainless upper. But then I'd probably settle for whatever I could get.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 7:16:04 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd buy a 10.5" 5.45 upper if one becomes available at a reasonable price
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2007 9:02:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Well, I've got 5 HK Gen 2 mags inbound. I ordered them from this guy:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=24&t=424455 So that hurdle is taken care of. Marty should have my MGI upper to me in the next week or so (he's opening up the ejection port to handle 458 SOCOM so I can add one of his 458 barrels later). So much for hurdle number 2. I just need to get a 5.45x39 barrel and bolt from Marty and I'm good to go. I'm hoping that MGI brings out a mag well for my lower to handle AK74 mags eventually (Tom says they plan to). |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 8:37:41 AM EDT
[#11]
*been watching this thread very closely, an 18in 5.45 may be in my future if this pans out* There is lots of info out there on the 5.45X39 Soviet. It has slightly less velocity, less bullet weight, and not quite as flat shooting as the 5.56 NATO (both versions), but creates horrid wound channels. Be sure and look up the *real* cartridge. The real weight is 52gr (IIRC) and NOT the 68gr-70 stuff you're seeing. The real stuff has a hollow space in the front for the bullet that helps facilitate "fragmintation and/or tumbling" by keeping the weight to the back of the bullet. The 68-70gr is made using quicker/cheaper methods and copper jacket is completely filled, hence making the bullet heavier and MUCH less effective in both "terminal performance" and trajectory. Buy the real thing and let the cartridge perform as it should.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 10:02:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Just got done doing some more magazine testing, my Colt AR 30 rounds take 29 of them, and didn't bind up after 3 runs of dumping the rounds out, so I may hold off on the HK mags and see how the normal aluminum ones run.
The orlites don't work. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#13]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 12:06:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Tag - Very interesting.
FWIW, I emailed AA and asked Bill Alexander (on www.65grendel.com) about their 5.45x39 upper, and was told it was discontinued for lack of interest. I told them I thought it was just bad timing, and that they should try again now that 5.56x45 prices are much higher, but I don't think it will happen. My ideal platform for 5.45 would be a lightweight 14.5 or 14.7 barrel with a decent flash suppressor permanently attached to avoid SBR status, but I'll take what I can get... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#15]
+1 hope this works out! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Wolf .223 steel case ammo is about $180 per 1000rds while 5.45 steel case ammo (sometimes corrosive) is about $150 per 1000rds. Considering the $400+ for a new barreled upper, bolt mods, mags, where is the advantage?
I'm all for cool new calibers for the AR, but at even $30 to $50 savings per case you'd have to fire a dozen cases to break even. How about a serious pistol caliber like a .500 S&W in an AR mag, Or the proposed AR45 for high capacity grease gun mags. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 1:54:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Bulgy surplus 5.45 is $119 a case. $30 to $50 is quite a large saving in ammo...buy three cases and you're already getting an extra case for free per say compared to .223. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 2:07:53 PM EDT
[#18]
I used to have one of the AA .21 Genghis uppers and I had good luck with USGI mags with the old (i.e., "tilting") followers instead of the more recent anti-tilt ones. The shape of the round lends itself to better feeding from the "straighter" (compared to AK) AR mags if a little extra tilt is allowed for (which is why I'm sort of surprised the H&K mags are being reported as working well in this application). IIRC, I could get 18 rounds to fit in and reliably feed from a 30-round USGI with the old follower in place. I never tried it with any of my 7.62x39mm or 6.8SPC mags, though... 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 5:49:01 PM EDT
[#19]
so what is the old alexander arms upper worth? I know someone who has one with very, very little rounds through it but he wants a good chunk for it, seems like he was asking $750, it is not worth it to me, I have a couple ak74s that eat 5.45 so they dont need competition for food... are these things really worth that much?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 7:31:29 PM EDT
[#20]
NAHH... ID GIVE EM $500.... IM SURE SOMEONE HERE WOULD BUY IT FOR THAT PRICE... CXS |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 8:25:58 PM EDT
[#21]
You are correct about the ak74's being 1x200mm, which as you said is basically 1x8. That's what I'd go with. - I have a bulgy 74 that shoots _easy_ 2" groups with standard surplus ammo. From what I've read from a lot of other people, the 74's are a LOT more accurate than the 47's in general. That pretty much matches my experience too. The 47's I've had usually only shoot 5-6" groups at 100 yards where the 74 does inside of 2" without any serious effort on my part. As for bolts... guys, those of you who don't have a 74... the case on the 5.45 ammo is _tiny_. It's a good bit smaller than the 7.62, and is definitely _not_ just a necked down one. Hell, I'm really surprised that the poster above needed to open up the 5.56 bolt face _at_all_ for the 5.45 case. They're that small. If I had a picture, I'd post one of 5.56 and 5.45 together so you could see the comparison. They look basically the same size around and the 5.45 cases are shorter (39 vs 45mm). Based on that and the over-all length being similar, I'd guess that you might be able to get away with using a standard AR mag with a different follower. Definitely NOT a 6.8 one though. Hell, I'm really surprised that the little things wouldn't work with the standard follower for that matter. I wonder what's different about the HK mags from the USGI ones that made them work better? Different follower? Interesting. Anyway, I'm definitely interested in a barrel if someone can get us a decent deal somewhere. If I had my "drathers", though, I would like a government profile barrel. Nothing heavy... These little bullets are not very high powered at all, so they're not gonna induce a lot of barrel whip compared to other rounds. As a matter of fact, that's my theory about why they're more accurate than the 7.62x39 rounds in the AK platform. Less power means less force causing oscillations in the barrel, etc. Seriously. When you first shoot one, you'll laugh. They're much more "tame" sounding than the 7.62 and they have _no_ recoil. Feels like a .22 rimfire to me. YMMV, of course. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 8:28:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Meant to say... I'm in for a barrel as long as they are chrome lined.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 10:24:38 PM EDT
[#23]
unless you just like longer barrels the 5.45x39 round is much less velocity dependent than the 5.56x45 round... therefore having a shorter barrel makes more sense with 5.45 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 10:34:35 PM EDT
[#24]
My British SA 80 mags with standard followers hold 28 5.45X39 rds with no indication of binding.
So, I need a barrel bored and chambered for 5.45X39 with an extension. I'll gather up the rest myself if need be. No need for chrome lining. I know how to clean a rifle barrel. A few minutes in the lathe with a standard AR bolt and I will be ready to rock. Ya'll hurry up now and get some barrels made. I got ammo to BURN! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 9:01:23 AM EDT
[#25]
The last one that sold here in EE was $535 delivered, and I believe I sold mine in that same neighborhood +/- (mine was excellent/like new). |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2007 1:29:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Somehow I missed this thread until now...
I actually have a complete M4A1 5.45x39 upper sitting on my couch to go test fire this weekend. It's a Pacnor blank. I opened up the boltface and used an un-modified 6.8 extractor. This worked better for me than a 5.56 extractor until I relieved the angle on the face of the extractor to help it snap over the rim. I have a 13.7" stub of this barrel blank left that's already chambered and has an M4 extension on it if anyone wants a shorty made up... I loaded 10 rounds into a straight 20 round mag and they fed perfect. I did not try more than ten rounds though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2007 1:43:12 PM EDT
[#27]
interesting....can't wait for the AAR
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2007 6:56:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Just sent you a PM about that barrel. Let me know how much you want for it. I would be using it with my RDIAS. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2007 10:18:33 PM EDT
[#29]
would you be interested in a run on these? :) Sadly, I know you are a busy man... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/31/2007 10:37:52 PM EDT
[#30]
No. I'm not even taking orders for any more barrels. Just using up some stubs that I have sitting here. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/1/2007 7:28:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Marty is planning to do some 5.45x39 barrels/bolts/uppers. Check out page 1 of this thread. Then sent him an email.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/9/2007 1:18:42 AM EDT
[#32]
Anymore word on this? I have shot MartyW several emails, PMs etc as he said I should, but I enver get any resopnse....
 Marty, I don't know if you have been getting my messages, but if you coudl shoot me a PM, Email, carrier pigeon, whatever, hell just send me your phoen number, I woudl like to discuss this project and the cost for a complete barrel and bolt. Thanks, Dawg [ETA] Saw your post on page 2 in resopnse to my original post that I hadn't heard back form you, going to send an email through arfcom right now... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/9/2007 1:38:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Just had a thought (as is known to happen at 4:30 am when I can't sleep)- anyone try 5.45 in a PMAG yet?
Dawg [ETA] I tried standard USGI 20 and 30 rounders, and 10 rounds seems to be the 'safe' limit for reliable feeding. You can stuff maybe 15-17 roudns in, but at that point the greater round tapre takes over and base of the round is providing all the support/pressure between 5.45 rounds and the nose can drop down. It did occur to me however that USGI followers are dirt cheap, and you might be able to glue a "riser" on the frotn of the follower or alter the follower to make the rounds have enough pressure on the front to make them feed reliably. I may fiddle with this a bit. But for my range purposes 10 rounds in a standard USGI mag should work fine. Gives me good practice on mag change drills, and if SHTF I will be using the stashed .223 in a 'normal' AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/10/2007 7:24:12 PM EDT
[#34]
I put 17 rounds in a 20 round (straight) mag and they fed just fine. I know what you mean about them tending to nose down, but I did not have a problem with my particular mag. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/11/2007 6:56:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Tag-a-roo.
I'm seriously interested in a barrel and bolt. Hopefully the price is within reach. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/11/2007 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Hmm... A bolt to fit the 5.45x39's 10mm base might result in some interesting wildcats, assuming reloadable brass in that size is available...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 2:24:08 PM EDT
[#37]
I did hear back from Marty W, the intial run of 5.45 stainless barrels are...not cheap- If you only need $1K of Q3131A that is going to be the cheaper route.
He in fact said that they were hoping to do a second run of plinker barrels that are much more affordable (he was not happy abotu the high price, but simple material cost for the blanks played a large part in it), and if they can get enough people to sign on for that it they could probably work a price break for volume. Hopefully Marty will pipe up here in a bit with some more details. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 3:13:01 PM EDT
[#38]
That's a tough place to be. Without buying 50-100 blanks, you are not going to get low-cost barrel blanks with proper dimensions to make 5.45x39 barrels. Without the volume, you are stuck with premium quality barrels like the Pac-Nors I made two barrels from. It's kinda silly to use a Pac-Nor barrel with Wolf ammo... Now for some real fun, try and find proper 0.221" diameter bullets or reloadable brass. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 4:18:08 PM EDT
[#39]
AR15barrels: You bring up a good point, which is, where do you draw the line between set-up costs (Barrel/Bolt, and rest of parts/pieces to make gun), to be able to shoot cheaper ammo? I like the idea of messing around with a different caliber, so the cost savings for ammo Isn't as big an issue for me, but, the cost of the barrel+bolt is. Do we need cadillac barrels for "plinking" with Wolf Ammunition? OR, can we come up with enough numbers (50-100) to justify and lower the price of a batch hinking.gif? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 4:25:52 PM EDT
[#40]
You certainly DON'T need cadillac barrels to plink with Wolf ammo. In my experience, you are NOT going to get enough buyers together at one time to make lower cost blanks a reality either though. The term "A rock and a hard place" comes to mind. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 4:26:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Personally, I'd be interested in the later run of lower priced chrome lined barrels he's talking about doing, but I just can't do the price of the high end ones. As mentioned, it's not like we're gonna be able to get reloading stuff for these, and the wolf and eastern bloc surplus is not gonna be "one hole group" quality. That's not to say it's bad for what it is. My 74 does <2 moa groups. Not bad at all for an AK type rifle... so the ammo can't be _that_ bad. Just not the best in the world and not reloadable.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 4:31:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Just a thought, I don't know the mechanics of it but would it be somehow possible to adapt cheap comblock barrels to an AR15?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 7:28:14 PM EDT
[#43]
We are making the top shelf barrels for some folks who have expressed an interest in such and whose budget permits it. The second gen we are working on MIGHT work and will hopefully meet all the plinker needs and should be significantly cheaper. Some of you have already hinted to this solution
Now we just need to see if we can make it a reality... it will require some custom parts but still should be more economical than using a PacNor or Lothar Walther blank .... to put it in perspective, those START at $225 .... without shipping
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 9:31:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Do you have a source for these cheap combloc barrels? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/14/2007 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Does K-Var still have them? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2007 6:40:41 AM EDT
[#46]
Couldn't you just chrome line a .224 blank to .221 dimensions? If so, then you could just use cheaper .224 blanks.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2007 8:37:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Marty,
I think I know of a suitable 16.5" blank for $105 retail. You could likely get a discount off that. David |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2007 10:09:46 AM EDT
[#48]
I like the way this man thinks. I think Marty is well aware of the cost/benefit ratio of these barrels, and this is the reason no one has stepped up to the plate until now. For me, I look at the price of a .223 *if you can even find it in stock*, and a case of brass .223 is $400, a case of steel case .223 is $180. 5.45 is running $120 a case and is easily available anywhere. So for me, if I can get a barrel and bolt for around $300, it makes sense because at that point it is the difference between a case of 5.45 surplus and brass .223- it is a no brainer- with another $400 I can buy another 1K of brass .223 or 3.5K of 5.45. Even with steel case AR ammo it is only 3-4 cases before there is a 'payoff.' Besides, a whole new upper in an 'odd' caliber makes sense due to the simple issue of availability- my $180 for steel .223 doesnt' do any good if it is not in stock anywhere, and I can't train without ammo. I looked at a 9mm upper, but by the time a get an upper ($400+), Mag block ($125), and mags ($10-12 each, would want at least 5) I am already looking at $600+, and I haven't even bought any 9mm at $150 a case yet. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2007 11:23:18 AM EDT
[#49]
I think we may have a breakthough on this very soon. I hope when Marty crunches the numbers we get a pleasant $urprise.
David |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/15/2007 12:32:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Comblocia?  |
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
