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Posted: 6/15/2007 12:41:33 PM EDT
[#1]
  
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Posted: 6/16/2007 6:27:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Based on the numbers supplied by David, we should be able to make plinker barrels (chrome moly parkerized, 16" max length) for the price range that has been mentioned (I cannot post pricing, but it's within the range mentioned in the most recent posts). This will be true plinker grade (I would not expect anything better than AK performance in terms of accuracy) and we are looking to find a source for chrome lining them if that is possible within the price range. So if y'all are willing to go with plinker grade, we'll bring in these blanks. Profile on these will be a boring simple cylinder from extension to gas block journal, a 0.75 gas block journal and then 0.70 to the muzzle. Muzzle threaded to standard AR specs (1/2 x 28) Carbine length gas system, 16.5" long (we add 0.5" in case someone wants to cut off the threaded muzzle, recrown and make it different thread or a "ban-state" version) Parkerized Chrome Moly. Two caveats: No changes to profile for now and twist is 1 in 9 (NINE). If that works for y'all, it works for us. |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 6:36:36 PM EDT
[#3]
What about bolts? How do we do that? 
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:02:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Works for me. David |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#5]
We can mod your bolt, or you can try 6.8 bolt with 5.56 extractor. |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:38:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Seriously! If you want to shoot 5.45x39 cheaply then buy an AK74. The logistics involved in getting AR15 up and running properly will take months which is taking into account various aspects such as the bolt, head spacing, mags, barrel twist, etc,etc! It's all fine and dandy until you are forced to realize that when it's all said and done the price of the ammo will have probably reached the point of being too expensive or scarce to take advantage of the current price.
Misc |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:40:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Works for me. How soon will they be available?
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:41:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Dunno yet. |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 7:59:53 PM EDT
[#10]
You are completely missing the point. I couldn't give a damn about the 5.45 round, what I want is an affordable and *available* rifle power ammunition alternative so that I can shoot my AR these days. Hell, even if I want to shoot my AR it is damn hard to find .223 anywhere right now. In fact, one might wonder why you even posted in this thread(?) |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 8:10:31 PM EDT
[#11]
I shot you an email, but just to clarify the barrel will be from barrel extension to front of gas block, or thicker than .75o (whatever the blank dimension is) up to the gas block, and then .50 under the gas block? Barrel is just that....no frotn sight base, etc, etc, just the barrel and barrel extension, correct? |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 8:21:47 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 I want an AR in every caliber. How about 8mm mauser or 7.62X54R? 
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Posted: 6/16/2007 9:18:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Barrel will be 1.00" from extension to front sight/gas block journal 0.750" at gas block journal 0.700" from gas block journal to muzzle Muzzle threaded 1/2 x 28 This is similar to DPMS Heavy Barrel profile. No front sight base, I leave this to y'all Just a barrel (with extension installed, gas port drilled, threaded muzzle) |
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Posted: 6/16/2007 11:49:03 PM EDT
[#14]
So are the stainless barrels still going to be made, or just the "plinker" ones? On the plinker barrels, has anyone tried a 1:9 twist, it doesnt seem like it would be fast enough for the 5.45 projectiles.
Also, what of the idea that chrome lining a .224 blank would reduce the bore to the proper dimension? I'm not familiar with the typical thickness of the chrome lining. |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 5:05:03 AM EDT
[#15]
We are going to make 6 or so stainless top shelf version, M-4ish, some of those are earmarked.
We will make more stainless top shelf for those requesting it We will make plinker grade CrMo and are still pursuing chrome lining (anyone have any sources they wish to share?) We are still looking into Gen2 solution as well Top Shelf 5.45 barrels come with 7.7 and 10 twist, the fast twist is for the 70 gr projo with the hollow in the tip IIRC, commercial ammo does not have that bullet so 9 twist should work. Recall chrome lining would line bore and chamber. If you build the bore up from 224 to 221 then so the chamber - now the rounds would not chamber ... |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 10:20:24 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm not missing the point but making one. If shooting cheap ammo is your sole desire then your answer is already there. The .22! Uppers already exist and the price of .22 is much easier on the pocket book than going after a 5.45 upper which again will have many kinks to iron out. Bushmaster has the Carbon 15 .22 Rimfire Upper Receiver for $387. A fella I know has already purchased one and loves it. Misc |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#17]
1-9 should be plenty for the 53 grain surplus ammo. For the other available bullets, I'd need to get my hands on a few to measure. David |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 2:26:52 PM EDT
[#18]
See highlighted. .22lr does not equal full power rifle ammunition in my book,and that is what I want. I already have a .22lr conversion, and although useful to some degree it does not accomplish what I want- full power recoil and operation of all weapon fucntions including bolt hold-open. I am not sure what else to say, except that if you don't like the idea of a 5.45 upper, maybe this isn't the thread for you(?) |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 2:30:40 PM EDT
[#19]
So you actually will have three potential version of the barrel- 1. stainless 'match grade, 2. Chrome Moly 'plinker' version, and 3. maybe a 'Gen II' solution by converting an AK-74 barrel if it can be made to work (which woudl hopefully be cheaper than #1 and #2). Am I following this? For chrome lining, who do the big manufacturer's use? I know Metaloy does hard chrome finishes for the extrior of weapons, mayeb they can do it or know someone who can. I think their website is www.originalmetaloy.com or something like that. A web search should turn it up. |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 2:41:43 PM EDT
[#20]
US Chrome does chrome lining, but I have no idea who to contact or what their minimums might be.
David |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 3:52:01 PM EDT
[#21]
SWEET! I don't think I can wait for the possible Bulgy AK-74 barrel mod, hehehe
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Posted: 6/17/2007 5:46:36 PM EDT
[#22]
See highlighted. .22lr does not equal full power rifle ammunition in my book,and that is what I want. I already have a .22lr conversion, and although useful to some degree it does not accomplish what I want- full power recoil and operation of all weapon fucntions including bolt hold-open.
I am not sure what else to say, except that if you don't like the idea of a 5.45 upper, maybe this isn't the thread for you(?) No this thread is for me since I would definitely purchase an Upper myself but the threads that have been started prior to this go the same direction by the wayside. Someone with the machinery to produce in volume obviously would want to make it worth their while financially. I'm not a pessimist by nature but reading the feedback on the previous threads has led me to believe that it unfortunately will not happen. Have fun trying! Misc |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 6:36:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Which is not a problem if you have a special reamer made that accounts for this. 0.003" IS A LOT of chrome to build up. US chrome is typically laying in 0.0002" per side into most chrome lined barrels. |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 7:04:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Where's the best place to order a 6.8 bolt? Any suggestions? THX!
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Posted: 6/17/2007 7:32:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Randall,
In your 5.45 builds have you had to modify the extractor for the thicker rim? David |
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Posted: 6/17/2007 7:44:42 PM EDT
[#26]
I have only done ONE build, so I won't claim to know what I am doing yet...  I used a regular 5.56 bolt, opened it up to fit the 5.45 case and then used a 6.8 extractor because the 6.8 extractor had a better angle on it's leading edge to help it snap over the case head while chambering. It worked fine for the first 18 rounds I test fired, but that's the extent of my knowledge/testing. I found that a regular 5.56 extractor would NOT reliably snap over the cartridge's rim unless I ground a longer angle into it. When I did this, I went too deep on the angle and took away some of the hook. The extractor was softer than I expected and the grinder wheel ate it before I knew what was going on.  ETA: I own your page 6... 
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Posted: 6/17/2007 9:17:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Ok, so scratch that idea 
LWRC said that they had tried them and they did not work. |
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Posted: 6/18/2007 5:27:36 AM EDT
[#28]
I already own a SAR2. If I can build a cheap upper for 5.45 more power to me. I have an M261 kitted rifle as well and you could easily say "Why not buy a 10/22?" Well, I already have one and I want to shoot .22 in my AR, that's why. Why do I have 5 ARs? Because I want them. 
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Posted: 6/18/2007 12:44:14 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 6/18/2007 6:56:10 PM EDT
[#30]
LOL, Cap'n has got it figured out here. 
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Posted: 6/18/2007 8:10:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Guess i'm behind the curve here, this will only be build #4 for me, ack....hinking.gif
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Posted: 6/18/2007 8:30:48 PM EDT
[#32]
tag for home
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Posted: 6/18/2007 9:07:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Yes, 3 potential versions. Still checking on the chrome lining. |
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Posted: 6/20/2007 5:33:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Bump to first page.
Good new Marty, can't wait to see how #2 and #3 pan out. I have a local machinist friedn who also is looking into #3, he thinks we might be able to pull it off if we can reslove the headspacing issue on an already cut chome lined chamber. Some tricky math in that one, but it can probably be made to work if the chamber is deep enough. |
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Posted: 6/20/2007 1:10:57 PM EDT
[#36]
I've got some 30 round alums with black followers loaded, some 20 rounders with alloy followers all loaded and ready to go
I've only got 10 in the 20's and 20 in the 30's but they aren't binding as far as I can tell. Until we get the barrels and bolts I can only cycle them out by hand but they worked fine. I'm not going to buy the HK mags until I actually get everything up and running, and even then ONLY if the normal ones I have won't work. |
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Posted: 6/20/2007 9:19:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Can't vouch for the H-K mags when useing 5.45 but will say IMHO they're the hands down best 5.56 mag in existance.
 just guessing that its the different curvature of the mag body thats lets e them work with 5.45 |
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Posted: 6/20/2007 9:39:53 PM EDT
[#38]
tag
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Posted: 6/20/2007 9:52:22 PM EDT
[#39]
So far I have tried stuffing 545 ammo into USGI, SA80, and Brownells mags. THe USGI mags start to bind around 13 rounds or so. The SA 80 and Brownells mags take 28 rds just fine. I'll bet that the steel Taiwanese M16 mags will take 28 rds too.
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Posted: 6/21/2007 6:51:33 AM EDT
[#40]
With what kind of followers? As I said before, due to the taper of this round USGIs work better with the older followers than any anti-tilt designs.
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Posted: 6/24/2007 7:50:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Marty, whats the outlook?
David |
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Posted: 6/25/2007 7:37:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Just got HK mag in the mail. No problem loading it up with 28rnds, only reason I didn't go for 30 was because there was no room left, spring was compressed as far as I wanted to force it to go. 5.45 stayed level, didn't bind up. Quality of this magazine is beyond anything I have ever seen for AR-15/M-16 Mags...too bad they are so expensive. After playing around with this HK mag, I never want to go back to USGI ones again.
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Posted: 6/25/2007 1:22:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Got a 'reasonably' priced source? |
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Posted: 6/25/2007 8:23:43 PM EDT
[#44]
I checked out the Equipment Exchange, found www.talonarms.com, they had the lowest price I could find, which was $54.99 per mag. Only other deal I found, and I can't remember where, may have been gunbroker, had somebody selling 2 for $114. Throw in shipping, and they are darn pricey, but after playing with mine today, it is by far the nicest magazine I have ever had the pleasure of stuffing in an AR-15. Talon Arms charged $7.00 for shipping, so total was $61.99, but for a magazine of this quality, and for what I want to do with it, I figured it was worth it for this project. I've seen them advertised for $75 per mag at some other web-sites. Ugh.
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Posted: 7/1/2007 11:08:11 AM EDT
[#45]
After reading the other postings on mags, I decided to try 2 steel body 30 round mags I have picked up in trades at one point or another. Both of them look like the Alloy mags but are significantly heavier, thus my realization that they are steel.
Neither of them have any markings on the floor plates and they had the standard black follower. They both take 29 rounds of 5.45x39 with no binding or tilting. I'm expecting an upper within the next couple weeks and will be better able to state if they actually WORK after it gets here. |
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Posted: 7/1/2007 12:40:43 PM EDT
[#46]
I'm going to be trying just about any kind of mag I can get my hands on once we get the barrels installed and I can get to the range and start feeding 5.45 to my AR. I'm starting to get excited, hehehehe, Can't wait to get my hands on one of these barrels!
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Posted: 7/2/2007 12:17:00 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm excited about these barrels too. Anybody try 5.45 in a Beta mag?
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Posted: 7/2/2007 6:51:28 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 7/3/2007 6:08:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Not a tag
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Posted: 7/3/2007 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#50]
To answer your question Yes. I kept watching this thread and decided I would try one myself ( since I had some AK74 barrels and an old shot out Colt A1 barrel to get the AR barrel extension from and a extra AR bolt ). I did some measuring (and some guessing on top of that) jumped on the lathe and in a little while had a AR74 barrel and bolt head spaced and ready to go. Slapped it on a upper and carrier and had a single shot AR74. So today when I got home decided to do something about the single shot thing. The small diameter 74 barrel required me to make a gas block as it was smaller than a ARA1 .625 barrel. So in a little while on the mill I had one hogged out, I drilled the barrel gas hole the same as a M4 14.5 barrel(.073) It ant pretty but lo and behold it works. I shot about 25 rounds, loading a 20rd mag with 5 rounds at a time and it worked 100% and would hold the bolt back every time, the rounds would eject at 3-4 o'clock. I guess next I will install a free float tube and see how accurate it is. I am going to thread the barrel and make a sleve to press over the barrel, between the gas block and flash hider so it will cover the orginal AK gas hole and give it a beefer look, also I will countour that ugly gas block and give it and the barrel a nice park job........................................AD        |
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