I thought it was supposed to be the ultimate SHTF rifle.

I'm in the field as much or more than anyone and the Scout rifle has never held me back.
Maybe you should work more on your fieldcraft and skill?

Doesnt that mean more distant to pull in a heavy ass dead animal?

Thankfully it's not.  But the way things were going in the Clinton days, it may have been.

It did get people thinking about shooting a rifle quickly, with both eyes open.  

Something that many people still don't comprehend 30 years later.

Why?

I don't handicap myself with a goofy rifle.

I got reach and lots of it.

I own a truck.

Do you carry your big boom around all day or keep it in the truck?

They were cheap.

I'd like to have a scout and put a 1-4x on it

I guess you don't even think about the chances of getting into running gunfights with swarms of enemy when out hiking or camping.  It's you funeral buddy.  

I never shoot elk on nice flat fields.

I have been known to force my mule to pack it.



Being bluntly honest  he might suggest I shed 20lbs or so and keep the rifle.

I think you are dead on about the variables. A combat tough 1x6 was unheard of when Cooper envisioned the rifle. In the standard position with a ranging reticle you can go from his moving medium range targets to pretty long range easily. 

I imagine a modern scout rifle as a short action, 18" barreled (suppressor capable), light weight rifle with a detachable magazine and a 1x6 variable scope in 6.5 Creedmore. Or a mini version on one of the Howa mini actions in 6.5 Grendel. 

Lucky.

After tasting elk for the first time last week, I really want to go on an elk hunt.  

Some elk hunts are easier than others.

You are not.

Agreed!

Looking at your pics I'm trying to figure out why you're in a scout threads.  Open country elk hunting isn't in the scout's mission statement.

Just picked up 308 in grey this afternoon.

Nice.

Threaded barrel?

This is one of those guns where if I keep looking at it, I'm going to buy one.  

Non threaded. I have a ruger Gunsite scout that is threaded for my can currently in jail.

I'd still like to own one someday but the price keeps me away from it.

I find it interesting how hung up people get on the optics.  A scout rifle is not required to have an IER scope to be a scout rifle, and adding an IER scope to a rifle does not make it a scout rifle.

People also forget the reason for the optic being mounted like that.  It was done to clear the top of the action.  This was done in turn to make the rifle much easier to carry at the balance in the field (after all, the scout rifle is intended for field use).  It was also done to facilitate eyes-off reloading and to make reloading easier in general.  An added bonus was the one could load with chargers on a rifle equipped with a charger guide.  Cooper happened to like the sighting system after trying it for other reasons, as he found it very quick to use and it allowed him to maintain his peripheral vision.  The intent with the scout rifle is to make it friendly to use in the field.  I do think that there are some downsides to that sighting system, but it isn't a bad one.  Every sighting system has its compromises.
 
As red dots became more reliable and batteries longer-lived, Cooper considered red dots as a potential option for a scout rifle.  Irons-only was always an option (a sight suited for quick use and adjustable for various ranges was required; his preference was for the ghost ring), and some scout rifles also had the capacity for lower-powered conventionally-mounted scopes (and IIRC, one of his early ones was so fitted).  Iron sights were, though, the only type that was mandatory, even on rifles with optics.  One of his early scouts lacked irons, but generally, they had them, at least for backup use.

Basically, a scout rifle is a very lightweight rifle designed to be friendly and handy for prolonged field use which also had quick-acquisition sights suited for a decent variety of ranges and which is capable of reliably killing game under a certain weight as well as people, and which has some aids to loading, steadying, etc. (like ammo on or in the butt, a speed shooting sling, etc.) while using a cartridge that can be readily obtained worldwide.

An AR is longer and heavier and, importantly, bulkier, which is true of other modern combat-oriented self-loaders.  Of course, Cooper was not opposed to a self-loading scout rifle action, but it had to, on top of being sturdy and reliable, be sufficiently compact in all three dimensions and light enough for the rifle to make weight, which is a very tall order.  I'm not sure that a suitable action has ever been invented.  An AR-15 more specifically is lacking in sufficient power to be considered general-purpose.

When one understands what its meant to do, and where the arrangement has conceptual flexibility, it is quite sound.  A lightweight, general-purpose rifle that is easy to carry all day long is a very nice thing when well-executed.  Rifles that are in the realm of his parameters, even if not strictly scout rifles, are a joy to carry.  I really like them.  If one is not in the habit of going afield and taking his rifle with him then I can see why he would not find much merit in the idea.  While it can be shot at the range or used for home defence and the like if one desired, it's not really necessary for the former and less than ideal for the latter.  A person who only uses their rifles for those things and has no intent or desire to move beyond that probably doesn't have much use for such a rifle, whether it meets the parameters of a scout rifle or is just on the broader general-purpose rifle category.

Tell me more about this "Scout Type" bull killin.

It would be amusing if there was at least an ounce of truth to it, but there isn't.  That's not where the concept came from.  It came out of a desire to have something light and handy (and "friendly") for field use, that could do most things within reason, and which was capable of quick or more deliberate use.  It's nothing more than that, and to that end it's pretty decent.  Cooper was a fan of good heavy rifles for the really big, serious stuff and if one needed something for a T-Rex, he probably would have advocated a super-heavy double, like a .577 Nitro Express.  For bridging the gap between the heavies and the scout, he developed a medium scout rifle, which had to abandon the universal cartridge requirement but basically maintains a lot of the characteristics of the scout while being capable of taking on heavier game (but not the really big, or really dangerous, stuff outside of the big cats).

A lot of the notions that probably led to Aimless saying what he did seem to come from people who general don't like Cooper.

I love my pseudo-scout rifle.  2x IER scope makes it easy to pick out a target.

CoC prevents me from ripping you from stem to stern.

Sorry to laugh, but it's true.

+1 
Like him or hate him
The guy laid the foundation for pretty much all modern combat shooting


Granted yes he did not invent all of it but he recognized it , organized it , and promoted it against extreme institutional inertia for decades .

I had a chance to buy one years ago that had been autographed by Jeff Cooper.  It was being sold as a used gun, they wanted $2,200 for it.  Too rich for my blood.

It wasn't envisioned specifically for going months on end hunting everything and fighting people.  It could do that if you had to (although it wasn't meant to take the larger game you seem to think it was meant to take), but most people who take a rifle afield do so for shorter periods of time and perhaps to hunt something more specific and limited in mind.  The concept still works for that, too. 

Interestingly, if any military organization would have any use for scout rifles, it would be those like the Canadian Rangers.  Their Lee-Enfields were far from being like scout rifles, though; the No. 5, on the other hand, is pretty much a scout rifle in every way except for the cartridge it shoots, although some 7.62mm conversions exist.  Their new rifle being phased in is the C-19, which is based on a Tikka action.  In many respects it looks like a scout rifle; it definitely doesn't make weight, though, being well over a pound overweight (the use of a laminate rather than a modern synthetic stock is a big part of that; it's also a big part of what makes the Ruger Gunsite overweight).

You keep posting awesome pics that have nothing to do with the subject.

And while overweight and overlong in comparison with the suggested guidelines, the C-19/Tikka CTR Arctic is pretty much a scout rifle, employed by the Canadian Rangers in the same manner and for the same purposes that Cooper envisioned...

Yeah, pretty much fantasy, right?

LOL, no he didn't.  That's what his medium and heavy rifles were for.  He developed the medium scout rifle to deal with heavier and more dangerous game, hence his interest in cartridges like the .350 Remington Magnum (medium cartridge that could fit in a compact action, facilitating making weight and length).  One of his medium scouts is what he took on his last lion hunt.  For the biggest stuff, like buffalo, elephants, rhinos, etc. he considered mediums to be questionable and advocated the use of heavy rifles, with the epitome in his eyes being 'Baby'.  Rewriting the bible?  Shoot, everything I just said can be found in his books and other writings.

I'm curious as to what one would weigh if paired with a quality lightweight synthetic stock.  As for length, it doesn't go significantly over a metre.

The scout rifle was meant to be used by a military scout.   It just happens to be a good ranch rifle.    

With a ten round magazine and a spare ten round magazine carried in the buttstock,  just grab it out of the truck and it can handle most rifle situations nicely.

Cooper said if you could not afford to have a scout built, just get the Ruger M77 Lightweight 308 and put a low power scope on it.   Still good advice, IMHO.

Hate, usually rooted in wanton ignorance.

Note the comments about the scope. Not o lay is thatbscope placement not required, that very rifle doesn't require it and allows for all sorts of different scope mounting solutions.

But, in thread after thread, we read about turning other rifles "into scouts" (impossible, usually, but usually this means "I put a long eye relief forward mounted scope on it") or how they like the scout concept but the scope is a deal breaker.

Weight, length, and effective range are all key aspects of the scout "concept," that get ignored out of some sort of tradition.

What is the quote?

And since then, end of the world and UN army invasion fantasies have driven seemingly 87% of purchases in this forum. With that in mind, dismissing the Scout concept as unrealistic is a bit laughable.

Besides, all this mystery UN army has to do is force people to eat from chain restaurants and all of the resistance will be too sick to fight.

Not saying he didn't say it, but everything I read said it should kill everything one might face in the wild in North America. Africa wasn't really part of it.

It's scientifically proven, Penguins have no situational awareness....

It's a good story...

While Cooper may have been a smart man (I don't know) and may have had some good ideas, his pseudo-intellectual, "look at me, I'm a philosopher!" style of writing was vain, annoying, and turned some good points into egotistical dick beating blather once it hit paper.  Reading his writing is painful and reminds me of reading a comic book or cartoon.

If Cooper was in his prime today, he may very well have chosen one of the many scope/sight options now available.  The base rifle concept he laid out is as solid as you can get.  I've never understood the want to carry an auto with load out of mags and ammo when you're not expecting to do much shooting.  If the SHTF ever occurred people of folks will be dead from the elements and lack of food/water but they'll be clutching their AR and dozen loaded mags.

Aimless's description is a good summary of the original magazine article that laid out the scout concept. Your descriptions both add and take away a lot of stuff, all of which makes sense, but it's contrary to the Cooper-led panel's concept. The scout rifle idea was always a bad solution for a problem that didn't exist.