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OP Dagger is trying to help you with a problem , yet you cannot possibly even consider that anything less than what you want to happen .
Anytime someone has seen or experienced an issue should a least listen to and not ignore their input .
In for the outcome

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96 month finance contract......

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Does anyone still believe this was a mistake by the dealership?

Sounds like the idea all along was to get the OP into a 16 at 17 prices. Just had to loan him a 17 for a couple weeks to do it.

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Okay, here is my latest update. I have switched from try to just make it go away and leave with a 16 truck to fuck this I'm going scorched earth on them.

Talked to the finance guy to see where we were with this 16 and couldn't get him to agree that I'm not coming in until the loan was final and I know I'm not driving away with another "loaner". His response was "well we can't tell you where we are at for sure until you come in and sign the paperwork". Also tried to get him to confirm if the check was stopped or not. He is still trying to say it was. Told him if the payment was stopped it will end up throwing a 30 day late on my credit and fees and his response was you should just make the payment and it will get credited back to you.

Tried to explain to him that they were in the wrong here and needed to make it right. That if I wanted to just say no to any deal they had to return deposits and my trade which was impossible to do. The response I got was "well technically it wasn't a trade". My next response was that the law is clear and this is what my attorney has already adviced. As soon as I said the A word he quickly switched to "if we've reached this level then you should give me your lawyers contact information so I can give it to Marco and have our attorneys deal with it.

Of course after not being in the office today Marco was already gone for the day. I'm scanning all of the paperwork tonight to send to an attorney I talked to today that is going to review it. I will wait for him to advise on my next move, but it will 100% not be buying anything from these assholes. I'm in this shit for the long haul now. I tried to make this shit right to be done with it, but now they can fuck off.

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The part in red is actually sound advice to avoid any unwanted hits to your credit.


I've still been catching up on the thread from about page 14, but I could have told you the part in blue would happen.  The word "attorney" brings everything to stopping point pretty quick.

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@Your1Savior

Will you please IM me your name and dealership info. I may be in the market this fall.

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The interest rate at which the dealer can get you approved on the contract and the interest rate on the lease you had on the Acura and how that was contracted and the payment term.
Somehow you got red flagged on the deal after delivery and the dealership is struggling to salvage the deal because they do not want to lose the sale.

BTW, a contract submitted for a 2017 has a much better chance of getting bought than a contract for a 2016.
Ask your1savior about it, I am sure he will agree with me.

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I may have missed it but I've only read Dagger telling OP to take the truck back and pay the dealership 14K.

Did I miss the part of Dagger's advice that actually helps the OP?

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Well thanks again, with honourable mention !

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So the loan is a mess because the dealer screwed up the paperwork I want to see a judge who says that's grounds for repossessing his only vehicle.


If the first lawyer told him to return the truck with nothing in writing it's time to find that lawyer's brighter, sober brother who went to a better law school 

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As soon as you threatened lawyer do you think the dealer is going to do you any favours now ?
They are going to want their truck back, it is not yours, and they are going to want it back immediately.

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It's law here, absolutely.
The truck does not belong to the OP, the dealer owns it.

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As I mentioned before, it doesn't appear they ever submitted the 2017 they originally contracted on to GMF.  I've seen the actual purchase order with the rebates they had listed and the way the submitted it, it was never intended to go there.  What it looks like is they sent it to them after the fact with a mock-up deal on a 2016 to them to see if they would buy it, now that they're on a different truck.

I've said it a few times now, but there was nothing hokey about the incentives the dealer used to begin with.  It was actually a pretty good deal, it's just that the bank countered their offer with a higher rate than what it was written at.  That is the reason for the payment increase.

The reason they're showing OP the 2016 is because he was/is over advanced on the loan as written due to the negative equity.


The main concern, and really the only concern, is why the fuck they paid off his lease without having a signed cashable contract.  I have a hard enough time getting a spray-in bedliner installed before the deal funds, let alone sending a $14,000 pay-off

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Did OP say which dealership this is so locals can avoid it?

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Al Piemonte in Dundee

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If he doesn't win he can just roll the lawyer fees into financing a new truck along with his past lease negative equity.

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As I mentioned before, it doesn't appear they ever submitted the 2017 they originally contracted on to GMF.  I've seen the actual purchase order with the rebates they had listed and the way the submitted it, it was never intended to go there.  What it looks like is they sent it to them after the fact with a mock-up deal on a 2016 to them to see if they would buy it, now that they're on a different truck.

I've said it a few times now, but there was nothing hokey about the incentives the dealer used to begin with.  It was actually a pretty good deal, it's just that the bank countered their offer with a higher rate than what it was written at.  That is the reason for the payment increase.

The reason they're showing OP the 2016 is because he was/is over advanced on the loan as written due to the negative equity.


The main concern, and really the only concern, is why the fuck they paid off his lease without having a signed cashable contract.  I have a hard enough time getting a spray-in bedliner installed before the deal funds, let alone sending a $14,000 pay-off

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Somewhere in here the OP mentioned that a finance guy no longer works at the dealer.  I see three different options 1) Finance guy knew he was leaving or getting fired so he screwed with OP's deal, pays off lease plus runs the deal wrong through GMF just to fuck with his old boss. 2) Finance guys is an idiot and has been screwing multiple deals up, dealer gets fed up and finally cans him.  3) Finance guy still works there and the dealer just told OP that they fired him to make it look like they are on OP's side.

The inability to get financing at the original proposed terms seems to be the underlying problem no matter what the finance guy did.  You ran the numbers on the deal and they add up right, it's just that the banks will not give OP the lower interest rate.  If OP could secure a loan on his own he could walk in and hand them a check from his bank for the total due on the purchase agreement, deals done.  Dealership is trying salvage the deal and most likely try and make a little more money, new terms put OP at $250/month higher, realistic number is somewhere less depending on OP's credit rating.  Second offer is putting OP in an older model at the same monthly payment, but I don't even know if that will get approved in the long run.

Another option for OP is to go talk to his bank, they will at least be able to give him an honest assessment of what lines of credit are available to him.  He may also have the option of a small business loan considering the truck is a business investment.  That may offset the difference enough that he can get a lower rate on the truck loan.  Either way he is trying to dig out of a hole a lot of people have been in, best of luck to him.

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You should probably stop commenting since you have no knowledge of laws in our country. There is no favor needed since it is the law.

"The Illinois attorney general’s office has seen an uptick this year in area dealers who fail to return a customer’s down payment when a spot delivery unravels, and the office has opened investigations against six dealers, assistant attorney general Greg Grzeskiewicz said.

Grzeskiewicz led a July 28 meeting of the Illinois Attorney General’s Dealer Advisory Committee, which includes CATA representatives and gathers semiannually to discuss dealer-related issues.

He noted one dealer who, when spot-delivering a vehicle, asks his customers to sign a statement that they will pay 42 cents for each mile the vehicle is driven if financing cannot be secured and it must be returned.

Section 2C of the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act forbids a seller from retaining any part of a down payment of a sale conditioned on the consumer having an acceptable credit rating.

According to the act, any retention ". . . under those circumstances as a fee for investigating the credit of the consumer or as liquidated damages to cover depreciation of the merchandise which was the subject of the purchase order or contract or for any other purpose is an unlawful practice within the meaning of this Act, whether that fee or those charges are claimed from the down payment . . . or made as a separate charge to the consumer."

Even in cases of repossession, Grzeskiewicz said any deposit must be returned and any trade-in must be returned if the dealer can’t arrange financing at the same term agreed to by the customer. He said some dealers were charging the customers for excessive wear to the returned vehicle, but that is not allowed."

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Were you upside down on your lease?  Was the early(I assume) lease return costs figured into the price of your new truck?  The cost of your new truck finance contract should be straight forward.  But if you ended your lease early, the costs of the remaining lease payments have to be calculated in to your payment.  In addition, if the car did not bring enough at auction, that could pose an issue as well.  Was your lease return in any accidents?

Is that the paperwork issue?

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Somewhere in here the OP mentioned that a finance guy no longer works at the dealer.  I see three different options 1) Finance guy knew he was leaving or getting fired so he screwed with OP's deal, pays off lease plus runs the deal wrong through GMF just to fuck with his old boss. 2) Finance guys is an idiot and has been screwing multiple deals up, dealer gets fed up and finally cans him.  3) Finance guy still works there and the dealer just told OP that they fired him to make it look like they are on OP's side.

The inability to get financing at the original proposed terms seems to be the underlying problem no matter what the finance guy did.  You ran the numbers on the deal and they add up right, it's just that the banks will not give OP the lower interest rate.  If OP could secure a loan on his own he could walk in and hand them a check from his bank for the total due on the purchase agreement, deals done.  Dealership is trying salvage the deal and most likely try and make a little more money, new terms put OP at $250/month higher, realistic number is somewhere less depending on OP's credit rating.  Second offer is putting OP in an older model at the same monthly payment, but I don't even know if that will get approved in the long run.

Another option for OP is to go talk to his bank, they will at least be able to give him an honest assessment of what lines of credit are available to him.  He may also have the option of a small business loan considering the truck is a business investment.  That may offset the difference enough that he can get a lower rate on the truck loan.  Either way he is trying to dig out of a hole a lot of people have been in, best of luck to him.

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The part in red is actually sound advice to avoid any unwanted hits to your credit.


I've still been catching up on the thread from about page 14, but I could have told you the part in blue would happen.  The word "attorney" brings everything to stopping point pretty quick.

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he said the sales manager isn't there no mo not finance guy

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Props to your1savior and dagger41 for trying to serve as interpreters for what's going on. OP hope it works out for you. I've been following the thread for a few days and had a question for the dealer guys.

To your1savior and dagger 41 how does he walk out of there without the financing settled? Did they intend from the get go to have him come back and finalize paperwork later or was there a snafu and they just thought they could straighten it out and let OP come back in later? It's just different sounding than anytime I have ever financed a car. I fill out a credit app, they submit and say here's what it came back at and we go from there. If I like it I sign a contract with the financier that the dealership prints and I'm done. I guess I just fail to see how OP gets out the door without the financing finalized. I've also never had to submit pay stubs to get approval as OP said he did either. Is this common? 

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- Stuff snipped out -

The main concern, and really the only concern, is why the fuck they paid off his lease without having a signed cashable contract.  I have a hard enough time getting a spray-in bedliner installed before the deal funds, let alone sending a $14,000 pay-off

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How do you know?

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I do see some error in the way the dealer handled the transaction, however they did show good faith and intent by paying out the lease on the Acura.

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Considering the timeline of the deal ( if OP was in at end of month) a third motive is a possibility I have seen used on the sales floor in the past.
End of the month spiff or bonus on number of sales at some dealership are stepped based. 5/10/15/20 and you hit the extra bonus.
One more sale right before the deadline can kick you up the the next bonus level. Could mean thousands to sales maggots ready to stretch the rules.
Anything to get them in a car an out the door, figure it out after.

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Where is "here"? Your profile says Alberta Canada.

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As I mentioned before, it doesn't appear they ever submitted the 2017 they originally contracted on to GMF.  I've seen the actual purchase order with the rebates they had listed and the way the submitted it, it was never intended to go there.  What it looks like is they sent it to them after the fact with a mock-up deal on a 2016 to them to see if they would buy it, now that they're on a different truck.

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On the contrary, paying out the lease is what caused all this shit-fest.  It now blocks the simple "undo" which would be possible if they hadn't done that like most other dealers.  I'd assume that a vast majority of legitimate dealers DO NOT pay off something like that BEFORE financing goes through.  Why do you ask?  Because of this fucking issue right here that the OP is dealing with.

The 2017 Truck isn't the issue.  The 2016 loan submission isn't the issue.  The failed financing isn't the issue.  The only actual issue here is that they can't return the OP's car if they try to dissolve this deal.  That's the only issue that these 25+ pages have come down to.  Everything else we've discussed can be fixed.  Returning OPs car cannot.

I wouldn't even focus on anything else other than how will the $14K elephant in the corner be dealt with.

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So I bought a new truck a couple weeks ago (posted about it here) and on Friday I get a call from the dealer saying they gave me the wrong plates so I need to come in. The call just seemed weird, so I had a feeling something was up.

I go into the dealer yesterday and the finance guy says there is actually something else he needs to talk to me about. They submitted the truck as a 16 and not the 17 I bought, so if I want to keep my truck the payment is $250 more, or they can try to get me into a 16 for the around the same payment. My last option would be to give it back. I traded in a lease I had and they have already paid off the lease, my account shows zero and the car was given back to another dealer already. When I mention this the guy says "oh, we already stopped payment on the check". Well, that is bullshit because I'm showing a zero balance, so Acura already cashed your check and it cleared.

I told them I'm not doing shit when I was there yesterday cause I didn't have time. Was told to come back in tomorrow. I'll be calling tomorrow to tell them they can either keep the payment I signed for or take the truck back and figure out how to recoup their money they paid on my lease.

Sorry for the long story, but I've been pissed all weekend.

UPDATE - 2/21


Okay, here is my latest update. I have switched from try to just make it go away and leave with a 16 truck to fuck this I'm going scorched earth on them.

Talked to the finance guy to see where we were with this 16 and couldn't get him to agree that I'm not coming in until the loan was final and I know I'm not driving away with another "loaner". His response was "well we can't tell you where we are at for sure until you come in and sign the paperwork". Also tried to get him to confirm if the check was stopped or not. He is still trying to say it was. Told him if the payment was stopped it will end up throwing a 30 day late on my credit and fees and his response was you should just make the payment and it will get credited back to you.

Tried to explain to him that they were in the wrong here and needed to make it right. That if I wanted to just say no to any deal they had to return deposits and my trade which was impossible to do. The response I got was "well technically it wasn't a trade". My next response was that the law is clear and this is what my attorney has already adviced. As soon as I said the A word he quickly switched to "if we've reached this level then you should give me your lawyers contact information so I can give it to Marco and have our attorneys deal with it.

Of course after not being in the office today Marco was already gone for the day. I'm scanning all of the paperwork tonight to send to an attorney I talked to today that is going to review it. I will wait for him to advise on my next move, but it will 100% not be buying anything from these assholes. I'm in this shit for the long haul now. I tried to make this shit right to be done with it, but now they can fuck off.

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Sales manager for Mercedes dealer here. In my opinion, the dealer made a mistake and is trying to get you to pay for it. I've personally made similar mistakes where I used the rate/residual for a 2016 instead of a 2017 and the contract gets sent back or we realize it after customer signs. If the customer already left a deposit/signed a buyers order and has a copy we just eat the loss and move on. It really sucks for the business because they're losing a bunch of money but mistakes happen. What I do in scenarios is let the customer know we made an error and the payment SHOULD be $XX higher but since it was our mistake we're going to honor it, then tell them they better be leaving us 5 star reviews everywhere.

Dealer should also realize for every positive experience, a customer might tell a friend or two. For every negative experience, they're most likely going to tell a bunch of people about it.

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Is there a reason that a lot of Chevy dealerships have a sketchy reputation?  Even my local Chevy dealership gets mixed reviews.