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Posted: 7/29/2015 9:50:34 AM EDT
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2015/07/29/why-organic-agriculture-is-a-colossal-hoax/


Organic agriculture is an unscientific, heavily subsidized marketing gimmick that misleads and rips off consumers. The federal government should stop promoting and subsidizing it.

Consumers of organic foods are getting both more and less than they bargained for. On both counts, it’s not good.

Many people who pay the huge premium—often more than a hundred percent–for organic foods do so because they’re afraid of pesticides.  If that’s their rationale, they misunderstand the nuances of organic agriculture. Although it’s true that synthetic chemical pesticides are generally prohibited, there is a lengthy list of exceptions listed in the Organic Foods Production Act, while most “natural” ones are permitted. However, “organic” pesticides can be toxic.  As evolutionary biologist Christie Wilcox explained in a 2012 Scientific American article (“Are lower pesticide residues a good reason to buy organic? Probably not.”): “Organic pesticides pose the same health risks as non-organic ones.”...
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Heh.

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 9:54:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 9:56:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Anyone that cares about their food already knows this.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:00:01 AM EDT
[#3]
For me personally, the key is "the fewer the better" when it comes to something that is designed to kill something else (bugs, parasites, etc).

I tend to buy things based on the Dirty Dozen and the Clean 15 lists.  

On the dirty dozen, the fewest amount of pesticides found was 46 in each of the cases.  As far as the clean 15, buying the non organic versions of them is fine as there were trace pesticides found on even the non organic versions.

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:02:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:05:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Reminds me of someone I know. Self-made millionaire. Technical genius. Graduate school education.  Buys the organic thing hook, line, and sinker.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:06:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Endless babes in yoga pants you say?


Shit, I'll have to go shop there
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:07:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.
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You mean it's not all this??


I also don't care for steaks sold as 'grass fed'. Something 'off' about them.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:08:27 AM EDT
[#8]
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Endless babes in yoga pants you say?


Shit, I'll have to go shop there
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Get thee to the Whole Foods at Maple and Coolidge!

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:08:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



You mean it's not all this??
http://i.imgur.com/sAU54mE.jpg

I also don't care for steaks sold as 'grass fed'. Something 'off' about them.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.



You mean it's not all this??
http://i.imgur.com/sAU54mE.jpg

I also don't care for steaks sold as 'grass fed'. Something 'off' about them.



Some of them are.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:08:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.
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do you know how I know you don't know shit about chickens?
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:09:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


do you know how I know you don't know shit about chickens?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.


do you know how I know you don't know shit about chickens?



Hes probably talking about those fatty meat birds.  I don't remember what they're called, but after a few weeks they park their ass next to the feeder for the rest of their short life.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:12:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


do you know how I know you don't know shit about chickens?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.


do you know how I know you don't know shit about chickens?


Give a cornish cross the chance to feed on grain or forage. Let me know what it does...
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:12:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Ypu. Organic food is a scam. American people fall for this stupid bullshit all the time. It's a myth, just like "Oh well the reason the pharmaceuticals don't cure cancer is because they wont have a way to make money anymore!" or "vaccinations of children cause autism!" or that nuclear power is more unsafe than Coal, solar and wind.



People getting rich off of the stupidity of Americans.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:13:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I only eat organic chicken breast and grass fed beef because i read that the hormones in regular meat will make me grow tits brah
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:17:54 AM EDT
[#15]
lol, anyone that just blindly trusts/assumes that some .gov labeling program has their best interest in mind is stupid.

Ultimately, it's up to the consumer to be responsible for what they put in their body. I love seeing carts at the grocery store filled with all organic produce, but also loaded down with junk like wheat bread and other "heart healthy" garbage. Sheeple.

Do your own research, find local and responsible sources for stuff. Yeah it's way more effort and probably more expensive and you will be limited in what you can find -- but not getting the beetus or cancer from eating shitty fucking food is worth it.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:19:44 AM EDT
[#16]
its really about the soil, and whether or not micronutrients and major nutrients are present and available to the plant. i don't see the quality of nutrition that plants grown on sand or depleted soils is comparable to plants grown on fertile soils.  it sounds silly, but the tongue has taste buds that detect different compounds and elements. most veggies in a grocery store are bland compared to the same veggie grown in a garden, at least in my experience.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:22:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Meh. I have a garden/animals for a reason.  If I really want to know about something I'll grow or raise it.

Most of the time I buy the regular shit. Organic is hoax.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:22:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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I only eat organic chicken breast and grass fed beef because i read that the hormones in regular meat will make me grow tits brah
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Can confirm, got Gyno from eating hormonal chickens
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:25:17 AM EDT
[#19]
My wife is all about the organic stuff. I don't mind as it doesn't cost nearly as much as it once did when the whole organic thing started to take off.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:36:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
lol, anyone that just blindly trusts/assumes that some .gov labeling program has their best interest in mind is stupid.

Ultimately, it's up to the consumer to be responsible for what they put in their body. I love seeing carts at the grocery store filled with all organic produce, but also loaded down with junk like wheat bread and other "heart healthy" garbage. Sheeple.

Do your own research, find local and responsible sources for stuff. Yeah it's way more effort and probably more expensive and you will be limited in what you can find -- but not getting the beetus or cancer from eating shitty fucking food is worth it.
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Pretty much this.  I eat a lot of "organic" veggies and meats, but I know the farmers who produce it. I'm not relying on a label in a store, I'm going to my neighbors farm/CSA.  As for price, sometimes it is more expensive, sometimes not.  The quality is definitely better; tomatoes for example, taste great - not at all like the flavorless crap you get at the supermarket.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:36:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My wife is all about the organic stuff. I don't mind as it doesn't cost nearly as much as it once did when the whole organic thing started to take off.
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When the organic movement started in the '70s, the food was much less chemicalized than it is now. "Organic" started out as a movement towards responsible farming, living soil, and quality food.

Then big agriculture got involved.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:37:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Depends.

One of my clients is an in-the-process-of-being-certified organic farm. It's hard work but the food is not the hyperspecialized, bland stuff you generally get at Kroger of wherever. Heirloom tomatoes vs. Hothouse bland tomatoes, that kind of thing.

Thay said, most of the marketing for organics focuses on the egos of the target audience,  who feels they're worth it.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


When the organic movement started in the '70s, the food was much less chemicalized than it is now. "Organic" started out as a movement towards responsible farming, living soil, and quality food.

Then big agriculture got involved.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My wife is all about the organic stuff. I don't mind as it doesn't cost nearly as much as it once did when the whole organic thing started to take off.


When the organic movement started in the '70s, the food was much less chemicalized than it is now. "Organic" started out as a movement towards responsible farming, living soil, and quality food.

Then big agriculture got involved.


Yep. And the certification is a multi year process to boot. Reeks of big agriculture trying to stomp out the little guy who'd been doing it that way all along.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:39:55 AM EDT
[#24]
This is what we've been trying to tell tards in the anti GMO threads here for years.

"certified organic" does not mean what they think it does.

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:42:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The quality is definitely better; tomatoes for example, taste great - not at all like the flavorless crap you get at the supermarket.
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Which has exactly nothing to do with being "organic" and everything to do with local farmers not having to grow varieties with tougher skin that is necessary for the big stores shipping tomatoes all over the place if they don't want to end up with a truck full of ketchup at the end of the road.

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yep. And the certification is a multi year process to boot. Reeks of big agriculture trying to stomp out the little guy who'd been doing it that way all along.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My wife is all about the organic stuff. I don't mind as it doesn't cost nearly as much as it once did when the whole organic thing started to take off.


When the organic movement started in the '70s, the food was much less chemicalized than it is now. "Organic" started out as a movement towards responsible farming, living soil, and quality food.

Then big agriculture got involved.


Yep. And the certification is a multi year process to boot. Reeks of big agriculture trying to stomp out the little guy who'd been doing it that way all along.


It's for-profit certification too, lol. You pay some "qualified inspector" some fee that he chooses, and it's up to him whether or not you pass.

I'm sure a lot play by the book, but how many farms out there were qualified by some inspector through sheer bribery?

I'm sure all of us at one time or another got an inspection sticker on our cars from a buddy's garage even though that car needed brakes and had a blinker out.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:43:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.
View Quote

I buy free range chicken eggs.  $2 doz (mixed size) and $3 (all large).   I know both sellers and their chickens are free range.  The eggs do taste better.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:43:37 AM EDT
[#28]
I like buying "organic" items because they usually don't have artificial ingredients.  I don't really care about "organic" produce or pesticides.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:48:54 AM EDT
[#29]


The "Farm to Table" restaurants really get me.  I'm amazed that most city health departments will even allow them.

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:52:40 AM EDT
[#30]
I generally don't worry too much about.  My wife and I grow our own green beans and corn so we have that covered.  The wife made a shitload of pickles this year.  We are also going to get a chicken coup going within a year.  I do know that grass beef tastes a hell of lot better than mass produced, corn fed beef.  I'm not saying the mass produced beef is bad for you, but the last calf we bought from a neighbor and had butchered was a lot better than grocery store beef.  YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:55:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:56:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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The "Farm to Table" restaurants really get me.  I'm amazed that most city health departments will even allow them.

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If I hear some douchenozzle on Food Network say 'Locally-sourced' one more time...
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:56:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Which has exactly nothing to do with being "organic" and everything to do with local farmers not having to grow varieties with tougher skin that is necessary for the big stores shipping tomatoes all over the place if they don't want to end up with a truck full of ketchup at the end of the road.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
The quality is definitely better; tomatoes for example, taste great - not at all like the flavorless crap you get at the supermarket.


Which has exactly nothing to do with being "organic" and everything to do with local farmers not having to grow varieties with tougher skin that is necessary for the big stores shipping tomatoes all over the place if they don't want to end up with a truck full of ketchup at the end of the road.



Makes sense. We grow several varieties of tomatoes and the flavor is Sooo much better than generic grocery store tomatoes.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:57:31 AM EDT
[#34]
I've done a lot of reading on this topic and have dug pretty deep. I encourage anyone who is interested to do the same.

I buy select items organic, and I try to limit my intake of synthetic chemical pesticides.
There is also, in my experience, a difference in locally grown organic veggies and conventionally grown big box veggies in many cases. They do taste better, and come from better soils.

That's a choice I make for myself. I like the fact that there is a way to tell what I'm buying and eating, so I can choose.
You can choose what you want to eat too.

If there was no certified organic program, which is actually pretty robust as of my last research a couple of years ago, It would be very difficult to determine what I'm buying/eating.
This program is useful because it sets some guidelines that have to be followed, given current circumstances.

I do think it would be better for the government to get out of it all together, and that would open things up for farmers and eaters to follow whatever practices they want, and establish relationships based on trust and/or private verification mechanisms, which exist. I don't think that the government should be telling me what I will eat, or supporting big agriculture, small agriculture, or bio-tech (pesticide) companies in any form.

The free market should be allowed to function, let the people who buy food determine who wins or loses.

'Murica!
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:57:45 AM EDT
[#35]
I see “ORGANIC”.........I buy the other shit.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:57:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is what we've been trying to tell tards in the anti GMO threads here for years.

"certified organic" does not mean what they think it does.

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Bingo,

It's more of a marketing gimmick. That's how one of our Senators made his money.

I looked into it for beef cattle, but the price of beef went crazy and I got deployed. Not going to try to get in at the top of the market.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:58:01 AM EDT
[#37]
We need to combine this thread with the gluten and paleo ones.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:59:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is what we've been trying to tell tards in the anti GMO threads here for years.

"certified organic" does not mean what they think it does.

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It means exactly what I think it does.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:02:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



If I hear some douchenozzle on Food Network say 'Locally-sourced' one more time...
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Quoted:
Quoted:


The "Farm to Table" restaurants really get me.  I'm amazed that most city health departments will even allow them.




If I hear some douchenozzle on Food Network say 'Locally-sourced' one more time...



I'm interested in why.

What we don't grow we usually get at the farmer's market.  

It tastes/feels fresher, supports the local economy, and isn't covered in human waste/TP
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:04:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Which has exactly nothing to do with being "organic" and everything to do with local farmers not having to grow varieties with tougher skin that is necessary for the big stores shipping tomatoes all over the place if they don't want to end up with a truck full of ketchup at the end of the road.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The quality is definitely better; tomatoes for example, taste great - not at all like the flavorless crap you get at the supermarket.


Which has exactly nothing to do with being "organic" and everything to do with local farmers not having to grow varieties with tougher skin that is necessary for the big stores shipping tomatoes all over the place if they don't want to end up with a truck full of ketchup at the end of the road.



Which may be true. But that still doesn't negate the point that if you want quality - organic or not - you have to seek it out and not rely merely on a label.  Ultimately YOU are responsible for what you put in your body. Quality matters to me, and I do notice a difference in taste so I buy local when possible. I cant remember the last time i had a tomato from the store worth a shit. I also like supporting the small businesses of my friends and neighbors rather than the big supermarkets, just like I'd rather support my local gun store rather than Walmart.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#41]
The label "Organic" or "Gluten Free" are the new buzzwords, a few years ago it was "Lite" or "Light" or "Whole Grain". It's marketing hype for the most part.

Having said that I still prefer my own home grown veggies or those of a local farm as well as eggs, poultry and meats from small local farms.  I went last Saturday to buy my meat for a month or two from a farm near me. A guy up the road has fresh eggs and another has some of the best tasting chickens I've ever eaten, Freedom Rangers. You can't get that kind of quality or freshness at Kroger or Publix, I don't care what label they sell it under.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:12:15 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm trying to convince my wife that it doesn't matter much. She keeps buying these "organic" chocolate chip granola bars for the kids which they go through in no time flat and are expensive. we spend $800 a month on groceries, it would be nice to shave a few bucks off. I do prefer to give my kids the organic milk, but I can't say that I'm entirely educated on the subject.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:14:04 AM EDT
[#43]
The government got involved ....subsidies...

Nothing wrong with buying beef from a local grower you know and trust.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:16:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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The government got involved ....subsidies...

Nothing wrong with buying beef from a local grower you know and trust.
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Like Callicrate in S Colorado.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:26:44 AM EDT
[#45]
It's interesting to me how something as basic and heavily studied as human food and nutrition can have so many diametrically opposed opinions that are all supposedly supported by the data.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:28:44 AM EDT
[#46]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The label "Organic" or "Gluten Free" are the new buzzwords, a few years ago it was "Lite" or "Light" or "Whole Grain". It's marketing hype for the most part.





Having said that I still prefer my own home grown veggies or those of a local farm as well as eggs, poultry and meats from small local farms.  I went last Saturday to buy my meat for a month or two from a farm near me. A guy up the road has fresh eggs and another has some of the best tasting chickens I've ever eaten, Freedom Rangers. You can't get that kind of quality or freshness at Kroger or Publix, I don't care what label they sell it under.
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And before that, it was "Fat Free"







People thought fat in the food got you fat. When it's actually calories.


 
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:34:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I buy free range chicken eggs.  $2 doz (mixed size) and $3 (all large).   I know both sellers and their chickens are free range.  The eggs do taste better.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same nonsense goes for the "free range chicken" that suckers are paying a premium for.

The chickens are raised in mega chicken coops like all the rest, but they have an exit door that leads to a small outdoor area that the chickens can "choose" to walk around in which few ever do.

I buy free range chicken eggs.  $2 doz (mixed size) and $3 (all large).   I know both sellers and their chickens are free range.  The eggs do taste better.


They do taste better.  I was skeptical until the wife insist I do a few blind taste tests.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:35:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The "Farm to Table" restaurants really get me.  I'm amazed that most city health departments will even allow them.

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The one farm to table place I have been to is amazing.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:38:51 AM EDT
[#49]
BTW organic fresh chicken is awesome.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#50]
I only buy organic milk.

I don't use a lot of milk, and the organic milk lasts about four times longer than the regular stuff.
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