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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:43:26 AM EDT
[#1]
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A jury that was split and without definite evidence on either side of the issue. Remember, this was a civil trial and the burden of proof is quite often more "meh, I like this guy better" than "beyond a reasonable doubt." With one participant dead and unable to speak in front of the jury, these sort of things usually go to the person who actually can show up. So yes, it is still reasonable for one to have doubts that things went as Ventura said they did. Since JV has a proven history of saying crap like that, I tend to agree with the jurors who dissented. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:45:22 AM EDT
[#2]
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This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:59:54 AM EDT
[#3]
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Correct, and that is why he wanted to be compensated for the loss he suffered as a result of Chris Kyle's lies. If this were any other two parties, GD would be totally behind the effort of the wronged party to get compensation for losses to his reputation as a result of lies. Arfdinduism writ large here . . . You can find plenty of examples of GDers whining that a veteran has to comply with the law or a contract. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:08:10 PM EDT
[#4]
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At this point I think they are both fruit-bats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I personally think that Jesse is a fruit-bat and I don't care for his take on 9/11 or his politics. The very fact that he even stands by that type of stuff makes him suspect for everything/anything as far as I'm concerned. At this point I think they are both fruit-bats. No question about it. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:10:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A jury that was split and without definite evidence on either side of the issue. Remember, this was a civil trial and the burden of proof is quite often more "meh, I like this guy better" than "beyond a reasonable doubt." With one participant dead and unable to speak in front of the jury, these sort of things usually go to the person who actually can show up. So yes, it is still reasonable for one to have doubts that things went as Ventura said they did. Since JV has a proven history of saying crap like that, I tend to agree with the jurors who dissented. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A jury that was split and without definite evidence on either side of the issue. Remember, this was a civil trial and the burden of proof is quite often more "meh, I like this guy better" than "beyond a reasonable doubt." With one participant dead and unable to speak in front of the jury, these sort of things usually go to the person who actually can show up. So yes, it is still reasonable for one to have doubts that things went as Ventura said they did. Since JV has a proven history of saying crap like that, I tend to agree with the jurors who dissented. I have been empaneled on juries for both criminal and civil trials, so I understand, appreciate and respect the process. I think you are being too dismissive of the verdict. Yes, the jury was initially split, but already lopsidedly in favor of JV. It could also be argued that CK was represented by a figure even more likely to garner sympathy than himself: His poor, grieving widow who would have to pay most of the settlement out of her own pocket, presumably leaving her and her children destitute. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:13:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A jury that was split and without definite evidence on either side of the issue. Remember, this was a civil trial and the burden of proof is quite often more "meh, I like this guy better" than "beyond a reasonable doubt." With one participant dead and unable to speak in front of the jury, these sort of things usually go to the person who actually can show up. So yes, it is still reasonable for one to have doubts that things went as Ventura said they did. Since JV has a proven history of saying crap like that, I tend to agree with the jurors who dissented. Quote HistoryQuoted:
A jury that was split and without definite evidence on either side of the issue. Remember, this was a civil trial and the burden of proof is quite often more "meh, I like this guy better" than "beyond a reasonable doubt." With one participant dead and unable to speak in front of the jury, these sort of things usually go to the person who actually can show up. So yes, it is still reasonable for one to have doubts that things went as Ventura said they did. Since JV has a proven history of saying crap like that, I tend to agree with the jurors who dissented. The burden of proof was actually quite a bit higher than the typical civil case as to this element of the defamation claim: JURY INSTRUCTION NO. 8C
The third element is that Mr. Kyle published the story about Mr. Ventura despite: 1. Knowing the story was false; or 2. Believing the story was false; or 3. Having serious doubts about the story’s truth. Mr. Ventura must prove this element by clear and convincing evidence (see Instruction No. 7). |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:14:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But Ventura got $1.3 million for false profiteering in the decision..............there must have been an accounting somewhere to get this number? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ................. This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. But Ventura got $1.3 million for false profiteering in the decision..............there must have been an accounting somewhere to get this number? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:20:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Here are the defamatory statements:
In this case, Plaintiff Jesse Ventura claims that Chris Kyle defamed him by asserting in American Sniper, as well as on television and radio, that Mr. Ventura said “he hates America,” the SEALs “were killing men and women and children and murdering,” and the SEALs “deserve to lose a few.” |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are the defamatory statements: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are the defamatory statements: In this case, Plaintiff Jesse Ventura claims that Chris Kyle defamed him by asserting in American Sniper, as well as on television and radio, that Mr. Ventura said “he hates America,” the SEALs “were killing men and women and children and murdering,” and the SEALs “deserve to lose a few.” The sad thing is that JV has said very similar things on television and in interviews and claims that Kyle's comments were the ones that hurt his reputation. Here's JV to Piers Morgan, "Our military has turned into contract killers now, contract for hire." So JV sued because he claimed that Kyle accused him of saying something that he says pretty much every day. In addition, this isn't JV's first lawsuit. He does like suing people. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:43:27 PM EDT
[#10]
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It's the estate, not her personally. Being a liar has consequences no matter what your service record has in it. I dug into this one....lots of old school SEALS supported Ventura on this one. Facts are that Kyle lied in order to promote. he got caught and called on the carpet |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 12:43:28 PM EDT
[#11]
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Here's JV to Piers Morgan, "Our military has turned into contract killers now, contract for hire." You don't see a difference between calling people mercenaries and calling people murderers? Really? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:09:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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You don't see a difference between calling people mercenaries and calling people murderers? Really? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's JV to Piers Morgan, "Our military has turned into contract killers now, contract for hire." You don't see a difference between calling people mercenaries and calling people murderers? Really? You honestly think that this They don’t follow any of the rules of war, they’re mercenaries, and that’s what we’re turning into today. Our military has turned into contract killers now, contract for hire.” |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:11:20 PM EDT
[#13]
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I dug into this one....lots of old school SEALS supported Ventura on this one. Facts are that Kyle lied in order to promote. he got caught and called on the carpet Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's the estate, not her personally. Being a liar has consequences no matter what your service record has in it. I dug into this one....lots of old school SEALS supported Ventura on this one. Facts are that Kyle lied in order to promote. he got caught and called on the carpet Lots of old school SEALs are hard pressed to like any SEAL that joined after Rogue Warrior came out. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:21:22 PM EDT
[#14]
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I wouldn't feel bad if something terrible happened to Jesse Ventura. Even with Jesse being the person that he is, it's still against the law to defame someone's character, especially with a falsehood. Squeals being Squeals and all. I met Kyle at SHOT in 2013, and he seemed like a good dude, talked for a bit, nice guy. I don't understand why he made up the story about the attempted car-jacking where he blasted the guy with his .45 and cops checked his name on a list, told him he was free to go, or this stunt with Jesse Ventura, other than embellishment. I also ran into some Marine Snipers that were there in Ramadi at the same time, and they said his claims about the distances in his book are total BS, so it seems there is a pattern. For some reason, the Squeals attract these kinds of people in my experience. The whole Squeal persona and image is really a marketing thing for the Navy, so it should come as no surprise that profiteers and marketing hypesters gravitate to NAVSPECWAR. Everyone calling for harm to befall Ventura should consider these realities before passing judgment, as it appears that Ventura is in the legal right to demand judgment. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:22:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Can Ventura sue himself for defamation of character?
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:36:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can Ventura sue himself for defamation of character? Jesse Ventura v. James Janos et al.?? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Off topic but we all know Kyle was a charitable man and tried to help out veterans having a tough go of it back in civilian life..........in fact it cost him his life in the end. Is Ventura a charitable man like Kyle? I think he is all ego, but I think he says what he thinks is the truth no matter what anyone else thinks about him. That is a man of integrity in my books, despite what you think about his message. EDIT: Sacrificing your reputation at the alter of truth (at least as you believe it) is damn charitable in my book. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 2:05:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even with Jesse being the person that he is, it's still against the law to defame someone's character, especially with a falsehood. Squeals being Squeals and all. I met Kyle at SHOT in 2013, and he seemed like a good dude, talked for a bit, nice guy. I don't understand why he made up the story about the attempted car-jacking where he blasted the guy with his .45 and cops checked his name on a list, told him he was free to go, or this stunt with Jesse Ventura, other than embellishment. I also ran into some Marine Snipers that were there in Ramadi at the same time, and they said his claims about the distances in his book are total BS, so it seems there is a pattern. For some reason, the Squeals attract these kinds of people in my experience. The whole Squeal persona and image is really a marketing thing for the Navy, so it should come as no surprise that profiteers and marketing hypesters gravitate to NAVSPECWAR. Everyone calling for harm to befall Ventura should consider these realities before passing judgment, as it appears that Ventura is in the legal right to demand judgment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wouldn't feel bad if something terrible happened to Jesse Ventura. Even with Jesse being the person that he is, it's still against the law to defame someone's character, especially with a falsehood. Squeals being Squeals and all. I met Kyle at SHOT in 2013, and he seemed like a good dude, talked for a bit, nice guy. I don't understand why he made up the story about the attempted car-jacking where he blasted the guy with his .45 and cops checked his name on a list, told him he was free to go, or this stunt with Jesse Ventura, other than embellishment. I also ran into some Marine Snipers that were there in Ramadi at the same time, and they said his claims about the distances in his book are total BS, so it seems there is a pattern. For some reason, the Squeals attract these kinds of people in my experience. The whole Squeal persona and image is really a marketing thing for the Navy, so it should come as no surprise that profiteers and marketing hypesters gravitate to NAVSPECWAR. Everyone calling for harm to befall Ventura should consider these realities before passing judgment, as it appears that Ventura is in the legal right to demand judgment. I was in Ramadi at the time and the USMC snipers said that about everyone, even the army SF guys. 
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Posted: 12/22/2014 2:25:46 PM EDT
[#19]
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dont defame people imo But,but,but......veh'trun......widow........kids........Mer'cuh.......sniper 
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Posted: 12/22/2014 2:28:40 PM EDT
[#20]
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You can find plenty of examples of GDers whining that a veteran has to comply with the law or a contract. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Correct, and that is why he wanted to be compensated for the loss he suffered as a result of Chris Kyle's lies. If this were any other two parties, GD would be totally behind the effort of the wronged party to get compensation for losses to his reputation as a result of lies. Arfdinduism writ large here . . . You can find plenty of examples of GDers whining that a veteran has to comply with the law or a contract. Those are always good for teh lulz. 
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Posted: 12/22/2014 2:45:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? I've never heard of JV calling out SEALs as "part of a hoax," but what difference would that make, anyway? This is and always has been about Chris Kyle's behavior, not about JV's behavior. I am genuinely curious about this, as you seem like an otherwise rational human being: What is your stake in defending Chris Kyle's exaggerations and fabrications? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:11:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I understand, $1.3 million of the $1.8 million is meant to be punitive. Such awards are meant to make lies of this type so painful that it discourages similar behavior by others in the future. I've never heard of JV calling out SEALs as "part of a hoax," but what difference would that make, anyway? This is and always has been about Chris Kyle's behavior, not about JV's behavior. I am genuinely curious about this, as you seem like an otherwise rational human being: What is your stake in defending Chris Kyle's exaggerations and fabrications? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? I've never heard of JV calling out SEALs as "part of a hoax," but what difference would that make, anyway? This is and always has been about Chris Kyle's behavior, not about JV's behavior. I am genuinely curious about this, as you seem like an otherwise rational human being: What is your stake in defending Chris Kyle's exaggerations and fabrications? JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: 
I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:19:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTAI am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? I've never heard of JV calling out SEALs as "part of a hoax," but what difference would that make, anyway? This is and always has been about Chris Kyle's behavior, not about JV's behavior. I am genuinely curious about this, as you seem like an otherwise rational human being: What is your stake in defending Chris Kyle's exaggerations and fabrications? JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTAI am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:37:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Video is not showing up. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is not about what percentage this incident comprises of that book. It is about how much what Kyle wrote and later said on numerous occassions damaged Ventura's reputation. And can you articulate how JV was damaged to the tune of 2 million dollars? How can a guy who calls SEALS part of a hoax (and thus dishonest liars) have his reputation further sullied amongst the SEALS? I've never heard of JV calling out SEALs as "part of a hoax," but what difference would that make, anyway? This is and always has been about Chris Kyle's behavior, not about JV's behavior. I am genuinely curious about this, as you seem like an otherwise rational human being: What is your stake in defending Chris Kyle's exaggerations and fabrications? JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTA
I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did. It seems like semantics to me, stating someone faked and was involved in being deceitful about one of the most significant events in our history seems more an accusation than an opinion to me. "The killing of OBL was a hoax" definitely is saying that all who are involved are and were lying, yes? |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 3:42:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? A man should never be forced eat a charge he didn't earn. Even replete scumbags. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:00:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A man should never be forced eat a charge he didn't earn. Even replete scumbags. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? A man should never be forced eat a charge he didn't earn. Even replete scumbags. True, but that's not the point. I'm not convinced he didn't earn the charge and part of that doubt is a pretty thorough and well documented history of behavior quite consistent with the charge. Therein lies the difference. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:11:13 PM EDT
[#27]
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Ugh, not quite. I was just trying to understand what happened. Apparently both sides feel that they have the right to minimize and berate the other for being wrong. You weren't there, neither was anyone else in this thread, yet many of you talk about this in some really absolute opinions. Witnesses testified for both sides disagreeing completely on what happened, yet many of you claim to to know without a shadow of a doubt what occured. Ventura would be proud of the hysterics and purse fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Emotionally involved in this one ,huh? Yes, they both testified they saw JV pick himself up off the ground. DKprof ordered that the trial was over what was said, not the fight. Wow. Not emotionally involved as you hero worshipping a guy that lied. Both testified they didnt see a fight. Neither testified they heard Ventura say anything. Ugh, not quite. I was just trying to understand what happened. Apparently both sides feel that they have the right to minimize and berate the other for being wrong. You weren't there, neither was anyone else in this thread, yet many of you talk about this in some really absolute opinions. Witnesses testified for both sides disagreeing completely on what happened, yet many of you claim to to know without a shadow of a doubt what occured. Ventura would be proud of the hysterics and purse fighting. Stop trying to play victim. I havent berated you, just called you on your BS. No I wasnt there, you're right. It would seem neither of the two "witnesses" you fawned over were really "there" that night either. The "witnesses" that Balista posted, which you called "men of honor" testified in their own words that neither saw Kyle hit Ventura, which Kyle claimed he did in the media (which is slanderous), nor did they hear Ventura say what Kyle claims he said in the media (which is slanderous). Kyle would be proud that so many are still willing to buy into his BS antics by supporting him at all turns, and with your hard earned dollars. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:16:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It seems like semantics to me, stating someone faked and was involved in being deceitful about one of the most significant events in our history seems more an accusation than an opinion to me. "The killing of OBL was a hoax" definitely is saying that all who are involved are and were lying, yes? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTAI am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did. It seems like semantics to me, stating someone faked and was involved in being deceitful about one of the most significant events in our history seems more an accusation than an opinion to me. "The killing of OBL was a hoax" definitely is saying that all who are involved are and were lying, yes? That might mark that person as nutty, but it is different than him making a direct accusation that the shooter is a liar. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:02:10 PM EDT
[#29]
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Well, IMO, it's more than just semantics. A person can hold the opinion that some event is a hoax. If they believe that event is a hoax, they probably also believe that part of the deception would be that those who participated in the event were also being deceived. Such a person could believe the whole OBL event was a hoax without need to call the actual shooter a liar. Most likely, he would believe the shooter was being deceived, too. That might mark that person as nutty, but it is different than him making a direct accusation that the shooter is a liar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTA
I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did. It seems like semantics to me, stating someone faked and was involved in being deceitful about one of the most significant events in our history seems more an accusation than an opinion to me. "The killing of OBL was a hoax" definitely is saying that all who are involved are and were lying, yes? That might mark that person as nutty, but it is different than him making a direct accusation that the shooter is a liar. I listened to part of the JV interview with Alex Jones that was linked above, and JV indicated that he did not believe the seals perpetrated a hoax. They could have been deceived, could have been doing their job following orders, etc... |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:26:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I listened to part of the JV interview with Alex Jones that was linked above, and JV indicated that he did not believe the seals perpetrated a hoax. They could have been deceived, could have been doing their job following orders, etc... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JV said it was a hoax in this interview for prison planet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJlysD4FTA
I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? I'm curious that people use other alleged heresay fabrications of Kyle's as evidence he was lying here but ignore a constant stream of obvious fabrications, in public and on record and easily read and viewed, over many years by JV as "not being relevant." As a rational and logical being, that makes not sense to me. JV has a long track record of saying similar things and making stuff up, so, like the boy who cried wolf, it is hard for a rational person to believe him now. It's not as much "defending Kyle" as doubting Jesse Ventura. As for personal issue with Kyle, I didn't really know him. I might have run into him a handful of times in Ramadi, but I did know some of the other guys. I'm the Doc mentioned in the book about the life and death of Ryan Job that just came out. They were decent fellows in my humble experience. Jesse espouses opinions. He is entitled to those. It's another matter entirely to accuse another individual of specific actions, as Kyle did. It seems like semantics to me, stating someone faked and was involved in being deceitful about one of the most significant events in our history seems more an accusation than an opinion to me. "The killing of OBL was a hoax" definitely is saying that all who are involved are and were lying, yes? That might mark that person as nutty, but it is different than him making a direct accusation that the shooter is a liar. I listened to part of the JV interview with Alex Jones that was linked above, and JV indicated that he did not believe the seals perpetrated a hoax. They could have been deceived, could have been doing their job following orders, etc... Isn't that like saying "no offense" after saying something offensive and thinking that all's good? He goes on and on about it being all a hoax and then as an side does "except for those guys, they were probably duped" as if that makes any sense. So he has such low opinions of the SEALS that they were that stupid and that the Navy Medial examiner was dishonest and lied about the results and the Naval personnel who were on the ship were dishonest about throwing the body over the side and so forth. It's kind of bullshit to say "the whole thing was a hoax--but not those guys, they were just duped" (which makes them stupid, right Jesse?) |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:30:33 PM EDT
[#31]
I see a new book title out of this one:
Two SEALs and a Pur$e: The Confusing Tale of Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle Maybe Brandon Webb could co-author it with Marcinko? Profit! |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 6:01:42 PM EDT
[#32]
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Stop trying to play victim. I havent berated you, just called you on your BS. No I wasnt there, you're right. It would seem neither of the two "witnesses" you fawned over were really "there" that night either. The "witnesses" that Balista posted, which you called "men of honor" testified in their own words that neither saw Kyle hit Ventura, which Kyle claimed he did in the media (which is slanderous), nor did they hear Ventura say what Kyle claims he said in the media (which is slanderous). Kyle would be proud that so many are still willing to buy into his BS antics by supporting him at all turns, and with your hard earned dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Emotionally involved in this one ,huh? Yes, they both testified they saw JV pick himself up off the ground. DKprof ordered that the trial was over what was said, not the fight. Wow. Not emotionally involved as you hero worshipping a guy that lied. Both testified they didnt see a fight. Neither testified they heard Ventura say anything. Ugh, not quite. I was just trying to understand what happened. Apparently both sides feel that they have the right to minimize and berate the other for being wrong. You weren't there, neither was anyone else in this thread, yet many of you talk about this in some really absolute opinions. Witnesses testified for both sides disagreeing completely on what happened, yet many of you claim to to know without a shadow of a doubt what occured. Ventura would be proud of the hysterics and purse fighting. Stop trying to play victim. I havent berated you, just called you on your BS. No I wasnt there, you're right. It would seem neither of the two "witnesses" you fawned over were really "there" that night either. The "witnesses" that Balista posted, which you called "men of honor" testified in their own words that neither saw Kyle hit Ventura, which Kyle claimed he did in the media (which is slanderous), nor did they hear Ventura say what Kyle claims he said in the media (which is slanderous). Kyle would be proud that so many are still willing to buy into his BS antics by supporting him at all turns, and with your hard earned dollars. Wow. You go ahead and have a nice day bud. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 6:06:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see a new book title out of this one: Two SEALs and a Pur$e: The Confusing Tale of Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle Maybe Brandon Webb could co-author it with Marcinko? Profit! Marcinko can voice the audio book. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 6:08:33 PM EDT
[#34]
I usually don't take an interest in such things but I decided to do a little digging on this Kyle/Venture thing before seeing the new Chris Kyle movie.
After reading a good bit and watching/listening to interviews from both sides I believe Chris, I do not believe Ventura. Kyle does not come off as a liar to me. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:10:49 PM EDT
[#35]
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True, but that's not the point. I'm not convinced he didn't earn the charge and part of that doubt is a pretty thorough and well documented history of behavior quite consistent with the charge. Therein lies the difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? A man should never be forced eat a charge he didn't earn. Even replete scumbags. True, but that's not the point. I'm not convinced he didn't earn the charge and part of that doubt is a pretty thorough and well documented history of behavior quite consistent with the charge. Therein lies the difference. This thread has populated my Ignore list almost as much as the original Locked NYPD Murder thread..... There are a LOT of people who have made no illusions of their assholeness |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:55:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see a new book title out of this one: Two SEALs and a Pur$e: The Confusing Tale of Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle Maybe Brandon Webb could co-author it with Marcinko? Profit! lol guy you really need to get the garden hose and wash the SEAL sand out of your mangina. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 8:59:25 PM EDT
[#37]
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Amen! Problem is a bunch of the leg humping gear queers here believe anything when it comes to one of their blessed specops guys. Truth has come out that Kyle was full of shit and lied so fuck'em, let his estate pay for his stupidity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How much did the movie and book make? Kyle said that stuff pimping the book Amen! Problem is a bunch of the leg humping gear queers here believe anything when it comes to one of their blessed specops guys. Truth has come out that Kyle was full of shit and lied so fuck'em, let his estate pay for his stupidity. 
A fucking coastie bitching about gear queers...ARFCom has it all! 
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Posted: 12/22/2014 11:39:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread has populated my Ignore list almost as much as the original Locked NYPD Murder thread..... There are a LOT of people who have made no illusions of their assholeness Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I am a rational human being, which is why I doubt the side of the story told by JV. When a man makes a career saying some pretty aweful and untruthful things and then is accused for saying the same sort of thing that he's said a hundred times before, then I doubt his side of the story with good reason. A guy cheats at cards ever poker night for a decade then becomes upset for being accused of cheating, saying "I didn't cheat THIS time!" one has reasonable doubts as to his veracity, yes? A man should never be forced eat a charge he didn't earn. Even replete scumbags. True, but that's not the point. I'm not convinced he didn't earn the charge and part of that doubt is a pretty thorough and well documented history of behavior quite consistent with the charge. Therein lies the difference. This thread has populated my Ignore list almost as much as the original Locked NYPD Murder thread..... There are a LOT of people who have made no illusions of their assholeness Adhering to principles of common law is assholeness? |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 10:58:02 AM EDT
[#39]
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Ventura would look real good right now if he forgave the debt. He got the story out in the open and I doubt he needs the money. There was an article in a MN newspaper while the case was ongoing saying he wouldn't take any money if he won, all he wanted was "his name cleared". Immediately after winning there was an article in another paper saying if he didn't take the money it would be contrary to what the jury wanted. |
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Posted: 12/23/2014 11:23:58 AM EDT
[#40]
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lol guy you really need to get the garden hose and wash the SEAL sand out of your mangina. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I see a new book title out of this one: Two SEALs and a Pur$e: The Confusing Tale of Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle Maybe Brandon Webb could co-author it with Marcinko? Profit! lol guy you really need to get the garden hose and wash the SEAL sand out of your mangina. 
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