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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:42:57 AM EDT
[#1]
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Surprisingly it takes more than just believing in Christ to be Christian. We are our own worst enemy.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surprisingly it takes more than just believing in Christ to be Christian. We are our own worst enemy. I hope I am wrong (for his sake), but I fear that Mr. Chick is in for one hell of a serious surprise the day he dies.... May the Lord have mercy... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:47:26 AM EDT
[#2]
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I hope I am wrong (for his sake), but I fear that Mr. Chick is in for one hell of a serious surprise the day he dies.... May the Lord have mercy... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Surprisingly it takes more than just believing in Christ to be Christian. We are our own worst enemy. I hope I am wrong (for his sake), but I fear that Mr. Chick is in for one hell of a serious surprise the day he dies.... May the Lord have mercy... Well some Christians are the ginger step child with no soul.  (I didn't realize it was a chick link, i didn't even click it i was just going off the text.)
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:48:17 AM EDT
[#3]
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If there's one interesting thing that's come of it from my perspective as an observer here on the sidelines, it's that the people who are calmly explaining Catholicism come off as well read. And a lot of the others...um...don't. I'm an extraordinarily bad Catholic. I think to be a decent Catholic, its an enterprise in lifelong learning across multiple disciplines, as much of the doctrine has pedigree that stretches back 2000 years. If you are a student of multidisplinary studies, you could do far worse that studying the good and bad of the Catholic Church. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#4]
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Wow. If that happened around here, 3/4 of the Parish would be at the diocese the next day demanding to see the bishop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Aesthetically, I do prefer the High Mass and Missa Cantata. I would love to see the Tenebrae Mass at the Vatican. The closing piece of music is the most beautiful piece of religious/church music I've ever heard (Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus) and the Psalm sung is a good one. I do agree about some churches not being very great regarding how they celebrate Mass. My home parish does it in such a way where it greatly resemble Protestant services I've attended and the last time I attended the priest was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Things like the Creed are omitted and sometimes replaced with made up liberal garbage "alternatives." I would never recommend it to someone who wants to see what a Catholic Mass is like. The parish where I go (despite it being in another diocese), on the other hand, is a great example (except that they need a better music programme). Even in the Ordinary Form they are very traditional and they do not use the people's altar. 
It's no joke. My local parish is, shall we say...... "Unique". As such, my wife drive a much further distance to go to a more traditional Church. Wow. If that happened around here, 3/4 of the Parish would be at the diocese the next day demanding to see the bishop. I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:50:42 AM EDT
[#5]
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:55:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. I would have left too. If by "old time" Mass you're referring to the Tridentine (Latin) Mass, this may be a good place to start, though it hasn't been updated in a while. It is accurate for the Church in this area that still has it: http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/EFMass/churches.htm
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:55:46 AM EDT
[#7]
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I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. That is a church in need of serious intervention. Your best bet is to find a Latin Rite parish. JHO. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:56:06 AM EDT
[#8]
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Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. He took me by the hand; Led me far from this land? 
(Cue groovy bass line) |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:56:29 AM EDT
[#9]
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Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:58:25 AM EDT
[#10]
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Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... I couldn't agree more. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:04:32 AM EDT
[#11]
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The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. Are you sure that it was a Roman Catholic parish and not an "Old Catholic" or other variety not in communion with Rome? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:05:08 AM EDT
[#12]
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I would have left too. If by "old time" Mass you're referring to the Tridentine (Latin) Mass, this may be a good place to start, though it hasn't been updated in a while. It is accurate for the Church in this area that still has it: http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/EFMass/churches.htm Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. I would have left too. If by "old time" Mass you're referring to the Tridentine (Latin) Mass, this may be a good place to start, though it hasn't been updated in a while. It is accurate for the Church in this area that still has it: http://web2.airmail.net/carlsch/EFMass/churches.htm Excellent! Thanks! I didn't even know what it was called. 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:13:55 AM EDT
[#13]
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Are you sure that it was a Roman Catholic parish and not an "Old Catholic" or other variety not in communion with Rome? I just assumed it was... St. Joseph the Worker Catholic Church |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:14:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I couldn't agree more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... I couldn't agree more. John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. While we remain subordinate to Christ, it is impossible to ignore how drastically he reorganizes the human condition. In union with Christ, we are afforded a particular relationship with God. While it certainly feels odd to think of it as a friendship, Union with Christ does produce just that. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:17:10 AM EDT
[#15]
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I couldn't agree more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... I couldn't agree more. I think the closest comparison I can come up with is "Big Brother" (seeing as God the Father is......well, the Father). But even then, it is a position of clear seniority while still sharing some of the same essence (captured by Christ as Man and Christ as God). Not the best comparison, I'll admit. But the closest I can think of. He CHOOSES to select me, I CLING to Him, albeit poorly... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:19:04 AM EDT
[#16]
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John 15 John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. While we remain subordinate to Christ, it is impossible to ignore how drastically he reorganizes the human condition. In union with Christ, we are afforded a particular relationship with God. While it certainly feels odd to think of it as a friendship, Union with Christ does produce just that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... I couldn't agree more. John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. While we remain subordinate to Christ, it is impossible to ignore how drastically he reorganizes the human condition. In union with Christ, we are afforded a particular relationship with God. While it certainly feels odd to think of it as a friendship, Union with Christ does produce just that. Perhaps when I hear that directly from Him (and oh, how I hope that will happen!), but until then, I am not worthy to assume such a thing on my own, or from my interpretation of Scripture. I am exceedingly cautious about such things. Perhaps overly so, but I prefer it that way... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:42:18 AM EDT
[#17]
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Hooray! The Chick shit is here! WOO-HOO! Do we get to be called idolatrous, Pope-worshiping, polytheistic, Maryist, Jesus-sacrificing, spawns of the devil now?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gee, I wonder why? Maybe it's because of all of the little lies he's whispering into your ears, you know, telling you all of the things YOU and others want to hear. Remember, the Pope is just as human as you and I, and no man can tell you you're not sinning and you're going to Heaven even though you're a sinner and have not accepted Gods gift. It's amazing how prophesy is being fulfilled right before our very eyes, and yet still many fail to see it. The sinners will stay sinners and the saved will stay saved. Remember what Jesus said, "no man may cometh unto the Father, but by me". He didn't say the Pope, He said Me, meaning Jesus Christ. 'Whore of Babylon' card played!  Hooray! The Chick shit is here! WOO-HOO! Do we get to be called idolatrous, Pope-worshiping, polytheistic, Maryist, Jesus-sacrificing, spawns of the devil now? It was already here - several earlier posts were trying to insinuate it, just being more subtle. That's what NRA2's and SAE's worldwide theocracy stuff was about - ushering in the antichrist and what not. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:10:25 PM EDT
[#18]
I figured the Catholics sang the Joan Osborne song, One of Us. (one of my favorite tunes) ....just tryin' to make His way home, back up to Heaven all alone, Nobody callin' on the phone, 'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome.
 Speaking of science etc. ever wonder how "every eye will see him" at the second coming when the world is round? It would be like us seeing something on the back side of the moon.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:26:30 PM EDT
[#19]
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No, I can't. One thing I am certain about is that no matter what the answer is, it's scientific and some day, somewhere, a scientist will figure it out. It is not, "God did it". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like what this Pope is saying, but I’ve always said and still maintain that religion and science are not compatible. Religion will continue to mold its interpretation of religious texts/teaching to fit with current scientific discoveries, but it will never be the other way around. No matter how far science progresses, “God” will never be the answer. Therefore, the two will always be in conflict with one another, and thus, not compatible. In my opinion of course…… Science and religion are very compatible and there have been some very great scientific minds who were religious. As long as religion remains on the philosophical side and discusses the question of "why," and science discusses the question of "how," there is no conflict. If one believes that God created an ordered universe run by natural laws of his design, one can accept that evolution is one of those laws. True, but I think we both know that people of faith will always say at some point during the process that, "God did it", or "God started it in motion", etc. Well, when we get down to it, at cosmic levels, that's all anyone is doing--guessing. Can you tell me what came before the big bang or why it "banged?" No, I can't. One thing I am certain about is that no matter what the answer is, it's scientific and some day, somewhere, a scientist will figure it out. It is not, "God did it". Fair enough. However, in the here and now, all anybody is doing is guessing. Some day science may even be able to identify "God." That'd be an interesting turn of events. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:30:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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I figured the Catholics sang the Joan Osborne song, One of Us. (one of my favorite tunes) ....just tryin' to make His way home, back up to Heaven all alone, Nobody callin' on the phone, 'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome.
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I figured the Catholics sang the Joan Osborne song, One of Us. (one of my favorite tunes) ....just tryin' to make His way home, back up to Heaven all alone, Nobody callin' on the phone, 'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome.
I hate that song. Stupid premise. Besides, God WAS one of us for a time, and we nailed Him to a cross for His troubles... Speaking of science etc. ever wonder how "every eye will see him" at the second coming when the world is round? It would be like us seeing something on the back side of the moon.
God isn't limited by dimensions... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:43:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Joking, I see this thread had no sense of humor...........I'm out.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:44:01 PM EDT
[#22]
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Are you sure that it was a Roman Catholic parish and not an "Old Catholic" or other variety not in communion with Rome? I just assumed it was... St. Joseph the Worker Catholic Church I've decided that a quick and easy way to tell how good a parish is is to check how available confessions are. The one in your link is 1600-1630 on Saturdays. The parish I sometimes go to daily mass has 30 minute confessions....every day before noon mass. And more on the weekends. Same for the church a few blocks farther away. It's normal here for most places. My home parish does them on Wednesday evenings for longer, and two sessions on Saturday. One of our priests heard 65 confessions on a recent Wednesday. Washington and Arlington really push it, and it shows. They also do extended hours during Lent and Advent. They advertise it on the Metro. Since the whole Jesus thing is about the forgiviness of sins so that we can be saved, I think when a place ignores that it shows in everything else they do. Don't forget folks, if you go to a mass with illicet crap going on you can write the Bishop and, if you want, you can write the Vatican. A priest got excommunicated in Australia by the CDF last year for doing very bad stuff (like giving a consecrated host to a fucking dog, women priest crap, etc.) and Pope Francis and the CDF heard about it via people writing the Vatican, not via the Bishop. Francis didn't even bother to let the Diocese know. The first they heard about it was when the "this dude is history" letter hit the bishop's desk. ETA: My wife stopped in some Church in Fairfax somewhere that was in the round or some shit like you described. She said it was horrible. It took her a while to just even find the Tabernacle. She noticed on her way out that the building plans and current donation status for their planned classic old world style church was at one of the entrences. Bishop Loverde apparently isn't a fan of 1970's bullshit architecture and it shows in his priests. Also, he just did confirmation for 60 kids in the EF. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 12:51:46 PM EDT
[#23]
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...Pope Francis and the CDF heard about it via people writing the Vatican, not via the Bishop. Francis didn't even bother to let the Diocese know. The first they heard about it was when the "this dude is history" letter hit the bishop's desk. Bam. That just happened. But not consecrating leavened, adulterated bread is Day one stuff. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:16:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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People can't agree on the meaning of the twenty or so words in the in Second Amendment, what makes you think they could agree on a text such as the bible? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You don't find it fascinating how different people can look at the same text yet not agree on the truth it contains? Is it ignorance or arrogance? And while your here, which exact christian denomination do you believe is the way, the truth, and the light? People can't agree on the meaning of the twenty or so words in the in Second Amendment, what makes you think they could agree on a text such as the bible? You're right of course. Would be funny if eternal damnation/salvation weren't waiting for the wrong ones. Or not. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#25]
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Joking, I see this thread had no sense of humor...........I'm out. Nope. None. Especially when my Church and those who attend it are described as the antithesis of what they are by people who admit they have no idea about any of it... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:49:05 PM EDT
[#26]
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That's actually a nice design. Like something the Knights of Malta would wear under their chain mail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's the kind of music programme I wish we had at my church. For our EF Masses the choir is a handful of mostly elderly people who have minimal singing ability (they have a lot of difficulty harmonizing and staying on-key). Sometimes we have some brothers from a monastery join in; not sure where they come from, though. Their choir robes are white with a red Maltese cross on the front, back, and sides. That's actually a nice design. Like something the Knights of Malta would wear under their chain mail. Yeah, it kind of looks like that (but also has a hood) except for the colours (SMOM uses a white Maltese cross on black). |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:53:30 PM EDT
[#27]
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Aesthetically, I do prefer the High Mass and Missa Cantata. I would love to see the Tenebrae Mass at the Vatican. The closing piece of music is the most beautiful piece of religious/church music I've ever heard (Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus) and the Psalm sung is a good one. I do agree about some churches not being very great regarding how they celebrate Mass. My home parish does it in such a way where it greatly resemble Protestant services I've attended and the last time I attended the priest was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Things like the Creed are omitted and sometimes replaced with made up liberal garbage "alternatives." I would never recommend it to someone who wants to see what a Catholic Mass is like. The parish where I go (despite it being in another diocese), on the other hand, is a great example (except that they need a better music programme). Even in the Ordinary Form they are very traditional and they do not use the people's altar.
Yeah, that was the last straw for me. Haven't been back since. It's too bad, since that is where my physical community is at, where my Catholic friends and family go to church, and is where I've been going for most of my life. I can go to any mass any day of the week and have someone recognize and greet me. I travel 15 miles each way now to go to church. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:00:59 PM EDT
[#28]
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Yeah, that was the last straw for me. Haven't been back since. It's too bad, since that is where my physical community is at, where my Catholic friends and family go to church, and is where I've been going for most of my life. I can go to any mass any day of the week and have someone recognize and greet me. I travel 15 miles each way now to go to church. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Aesthetically, I do prefer the High Mass and Missa Cantata. I would love to see the Tenebrae Mass at the Vatican. The closing piece of music is the most beautiful piece of religious/church music I've ever heard (Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus) and the Psalm sung is a good one. I do agree about some churches not being very great regarding how they celebrate Mass. My home parish does it in such a way where it greatly resemble Protestant services I've attended and the last time I attended the priest was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Things like the Creed are omitted and sometimes replaced with made up liberal garbage "alternatives." I would never recommend it to someone who wants to see what a Catholic Mass is like. The parish where I go (despite it being in another diocese), on the other hand, is a great example (except that they need a better music programme). Even in the Ordinary Form they are very traditional and they do not use the people's altar.
Yeah, that was the last straw for me. Haven't been back since. It's too bad, since that is where my physical community is at, where my Catholic friends and family go to church, and is where I've been going for most of my life. I can go to any mass any day of the week and have someone recognize and greet me. I travel 15 miles each way now to go to church. Did you write the Bishop? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:12:00 PM EDT
[#29]
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Yeah, I'm not sure how an expanded understanding of the natural world can be 'abominable in the eyes of God' considering that He created the natural world in the first place (not to mention creating within us the rational capacity to understand His creation). There's always been something vaguely Gnostic in the dualistic matter-bad/spirit-good worldview many Protestant Fundamentalists seem to hold. God created matter so it has to in some manner reflect His goodness. In that sense their fear of natural understanding seems to reflect a lack of faith. Like Aquinas said, "Anything that can be loved less by being understood more isn't worthy of love." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it holds or fosters a belief that the standing word of God is to be revised as to take away its literal meaning to be replaced with something else, that being anything else that would supersede the word of God, or the Christian Holy Bible then yes, it is not only heretical but also abominable in the eyes of God. Are we on the same page here, or are you suggesting something else? How many Bibles do you guys got? It's not a revision if it was always meant that way. What has been revised is our understanding of it. Yeah, I'm not sure how an expanded understanding of the natural world can be 'abominable in the eyes of God' considering that He created the natural world in the first place (not to mention creating within us the rational capacity to understand His creation). Some people read books in order to find God. Yet there is a great book, the very order of created things. Look above you; look below you! Note it; read it! God, whom you wish to find, never wrote that book with ink. Instead, he set before your eyes the things He had made. Can you ask for a louder voice than that? Why, heaven and earth cry out to you: “God made me!”
St Augustine There's always been something vaguely Gnostic in the dualistic matter-bad/spirit-good worldview many Protestant Fundamentalists seem to hold. God created matter so it has to in some manner reflect His goodness. In that sense their fear of natural understanding seems to reflect a lack of faith. Like Aquinas said, "Anything that can be loved less by being understood more isn't worthy of love." I am reminded of a passage I recently read: It is God's will that is the cause of all things. Cause of the fact they are, the divine will is therefore cause of what they are. Now God has only willed that they be, and that they be what they are, because they are good in the very measure in which they are. To say that the will of God is the cause of all things is therefore to say that God loves all things, as reason points out and as Scripture teaches: "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things thou hast made" (Wisd., XI, 24). If God loves all of the things in this universe that He has created it would seem to make sense that we can acquire a greater love for His creation by knowing more of it than we do, and by increasing our understanding of that which we have come to know. Seeing the pictures of deep space I can't avoid the majesty and inherent goodness in God's creation, and the same is true in seeing the details of a landscape here on Earth, which is minuscule in comparison. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:21:48 PM EDT
[#30]
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Wow. If that happened around here, 3/4 of the Parish would be at the diocese the next day demanding to see the bishop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Aesthetically, I do prefer the High Mass and Missa Cantata. I would love to see the Tenebrae Mass at the Vatican. The closing piece of music is the most beautiful piece of religious/church music I've ever heard (Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus) and the Psalm sung is a good one. I do agree about some churches not being very great regarding how they celebrate Mass. My home parish does it in such a way where it greatly resemble Protestant services I've attended and the last time I attended the priest was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Things like the Creed are omitted and sometimes replaced with made up liberal garbage "alternatives." I would never recommend it to someone who wants to see what a Catholic Mass is like. The parish where I go (despite it being in another diocese), on the other hand, is a great example (except that they need a better music programme). Even in the Ordinary Form they are very traditional and they do not use the people's altar.
It's no joke. My local parish is, shall we say...... "Unique". As such, my wife drive a much further distance to go to a more traditional Church. Wow. If that happened around here, 3/4 of the Parish would be at the diocese the next day demanding to see the bishop. I'm not sure that the Bishop cares and he may even approve. That's my impression, anyways, but I could be wrong. I've thought about formally complaining about it. The parishioners mostly eat that stuff up, though. They either favour it or accept it as appropriate teaching because the priest is saying it or going along with it. Only a minority are truly upset and recognize it for what it is. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:25:21 PM EDT
[#31]
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I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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Aesthetically, I do prefer the High Mass and Missa Cantata. I would love to see the Tenebrae Mass at the Vatican. The closing piece of music is the most beautiful piece of religious/church music I've ever heard (Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus) and the Psalm sung is a good one. I do agree about some churches not being very great regarding how they celebrate Mass. My home parish does it in such a way where it greatly resemble Protestant services I've attended and the last time I attended the priest was blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Things like the Creed are omitted and sometimes replaced with made up liberal garbage "alternatives." I would never recommend it to someone who wants to see what a Catholic Mass is like. The parish where I go (despite it being in another diocese), on the other hand, is a great example (except that they need a better music programme). Even in the Ordinary Form they are very traditional and they do not use the people's altar.
It's no joke. My local parish is, shall we say...... "Unique". As such, my wife drive a much further distance to go to a more traditional Church. Wow. If that happened around here, 3/4 of the Parish would be at the diocese the next day demanding to see the bishop. I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. Sounds a lot like my home parish. One of the last times I was there they mixed unconsecrated hosts with consecrated ones, too. Our church was rebuilt about a decade ago and they went out of their way to build it in a non-traditional manner. The tabernacle is in some distant corner. There is a people's altar and the church is oriented towards the west, among other things. The projectors were really bugging me, too. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:41:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure that the Bishop cares and he may even approve. That's my impression, anyways, but I could be wrong. I've thought about formally complaining about it. The parishioners mostly eat that stuff up, though. They either favour it or accept it as appropriate teaching because the priest is saying it or going along with it. Only a minority are truly upset and recognize it for what it is. Too many old school Italians, Irish, and Poles for that to fly around here. But as I said in a prior post, I am in an area where Catholicism is the majority religion by a significant margin.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:52:50 PM EDT
[#33]
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Too many old school Italians, Irish, and Poles for that to fly around here. But as I said in a prior post, I am in an area where Catholicism is the majority religion by a significant margin. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not sure that the Bishop cares and he may even approve. That's my impression, anyways, but I could be wrong. I've thought about formally complaining about it. The parishioners mostly eat that stuff up, though. They either favour it or accept it as appropriate teaching because the priest is saying it or going along with it. Only a minority are truly upset and recognize it for what it is. Too many old school Italians, Irish, and Poles for that to fly around here. But as I said in a prior post, I am in an area where Catholicism is the majority religion by a significant margin. I'm pretty sure it's the majority religion here, too. Mostly because of the Hispanics. An unfortunate fact, though, is that the Church historically never really bothered to instruct the people in Latin America much regarding the Faith, which I think explains a lot about the beliefs many Hispanics have. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:54:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure it's the majority religion here, too. Mostly because of the Hispanics. An unfortunate fact, though, is that the Church historically never really bothered to instruct the people in Latin America much regarding the Faith, which I think explains a lot about the beliefs many Hispanics have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure that the Bishop cares and he may even approve. That's my impression, anyways, but I could be wrong. I've thought about formally complaining about it. The parishioners mostly eat that stuff up, though. They either favour it or accept it as appropriate teaching because the priest is saying it or going along with it. Only a minority are truly upset and recognize it for what it is. Too many old school Italians, Irish, and Poles for that to fly around here. But as I said in a prior post, I am in an area where Catholicism is the majority religion by a significant margin. I'm pretty sure it's the majority religion here, too. Mostly because of the Hispanics. An unfortunate fact, though, is that the Church historically never really bothered to instruct the people in Latin America much regarding the Faith, which I think explains a lot about the beliefs many Hispanics have. Ah, that's a good point. Explains things like Santa Muerte. The Catholics coming from European traditions had a much more rigorous education in the traditions of the Church.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:57:35 PM EDT
[#35]
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Ah, that's a good point. Explains things like Santa Muerte. The Catholics coming from European traditions had a much more rigorous education in the traditions of the Church. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not sure that the Bishop cares and he may even approve. That's my impression, anyways, but I could be wrong. I've thought about formally complaining about it. The parishioners mostly eat that stuff up, though. They either favour it or accept it as appropriate teaching because the priest is saying it or going along with it. Only a minority are truly upset and recognize it for what it is. Too many old school Italians, Irish, and Poles for that to fly around here. But as I said in a prior post, I am in an area where Catholicism is the majority religion by a significant margin. I'm pretty sure it's the majority religion here, too. Mostly because of the Hispanics. An unfortunate fact, though, is that the Church historically never really bothered to instruct the people in Latin America much regarding the Faith, which I think explains a lot about the beliefs many Hispanics have. Ah, that's a good point. Explains things like Santa Muerte. The Catholics coming from European traditions had a much more rigorous education in the traditions of the Church. Yeah, the lack of strong instruction in the faith made it easy for the pagan beliefs of the Indians to become infused with their Catholic religious beliefs (and it's also why I think Republicans are fooling themselves in counting on Hispanic social conservatism on account of their being predominantly Catholic). |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:25:36 PM EDT
[#36]
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That is a church in need of serious intervention. Your best bet is to find a Latin Rite parish. JHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm in the Twin Cities of Minnesota, a region that prides itself on being different. The church has no kneelers, no stations of the cross on the walls, and no missals. Everything is projected up on the wall to be read. Before Mass begins, everyone is asked to turn and HUG the people around you. Everyone wears a name tag. The altar is not in the front: it's in the middle with the lectern in front of it, which means the readers have their backs turned to the altar when reading. The lead Altar Boy was wearing ripped jeans, dirty Adidas, and a T-Shirt while he be-bopped down the short aisle with his unkempt 'fro despite a pick in his back pocket. The others were no better. The Host was not the traditional host, but rather regular bread broken and handed to each recipient. Since I never, ever, take Communion in my hand, that was a total turnoff. And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." I had gotten a bad vibe the minute I walked in. My wife (who was urging me to be tolerant) turned to me when that hymn was sung and said, "That's it. You're right. We're outta here..." I'd love to find a place that does the "old-time" Mass because I don't think I've ever seen it, but at least where we are now is a bit more traditional and along the lines of what I've always seen growing up. This place near us was just......... Creepy. That is a church in need of serious intervention. Your best bet is to find a Latin Rite parish. JHO. The only FSSP Apostolate in the state of MN is here: http://www.fsspminneapolis.org/ Make the drive, you will not regret it. ETA: If you're traveling and want to find a Latin Mass, just check for other FSSP locations here: http://www.fssp.org/en/coordonnees.htm#USA |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:47:39 PM EDT
[#37]
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Independent.uk Link
The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not “a magician with a magic wand”, Pope Francis has declared. Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope made comments which experts said put an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design that some argue were encouraged by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. Francis explained that both scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator – arguing instead that they “require it”. “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. He added: “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfilment. This former-Catholic-turned-agnostic really likes this pope. So, am I missing the part where he explains how God created human beings without a "magic"? Seriously. He didn't do anything except try to reconcile two sides that don't really want to be reconciled. How can he have put an end to Creationism when the quote clearly affirms that God created humans? If God created humans, and assuming by humans he means homo sapiens, then he actually just doubled down on the idea that we are created, not evolved. I don't mind someone being a creationist or an evolutionist. What I dislike is someone who is lukewarm and apparently trying to pander to both sides without any rational explanation for how the two can be reconciled. I am beginning to think he's just a "why can't we all just get along" coward who thinks the key to restoring the RCC is to pander to everyone imaginable. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:59:06 PM EDT
[#38]
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Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And then came the hymn line... "Here I am, Lord, waiting for you like a lover..." Hell I get uncomfortable with the hymn line declaring Jesus "he's my friend..." Nope. No way. Uh uh. Heh-heh... You and I may not attend the same Church, but I think we share a very similar humility and reverence for the Lord, even if I am among the worst of sinners when it comes to taking His Name in vain and laughing at some things that I shouldn't laugh at. But He is not my friend. He is my Lord, my Savior, and my only source of solace in an evil world. I am a sinner and in many real ways a hypocrite, but deep inside I know the Chain of Command, and He and I are nowhere near the same level. I'm actually surprised He knows I'm here at all, or that He cares about me at all.... That used to bother me as well until my Pastor quoted the scripture from whence it comes. Assuming the translation is accurate, there is scripture which indicates that we are friends of Christ. As for the lover part, that does seem to go too far. But at the same time, our word "love" is over broad compared to the various types of specific love indicated in scripture. We use context to demarcate the various types. The love I have for my wife is not the same love I have for my friends and relatives. But we still use the word "love" across all scenarios. If the use of "lover" is taken from scripture, I suspect it's a translation issue in play. If it is a modern hymm, then it does seem a bit weird since the word "lover" in common usage indicates a much more specific and romantic/erotic meaning than just "one who (generally) loves another". |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:17:10 PM EDT
[#39]
That may be true, but they bloody well should have thought of that before putting it to music.
First time I can remember my skin crawling while in a Church... |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 7:28:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false.
You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. I know you can't see this, or won't, but it's so unnecessary to do this. It's so rude, a lot of people can't tolerate it. 
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No, not at all. It is exactly what you as a Catholic believe about Protestants. I believe you misunderstand the Greek. You believe that I do. You believe I am just as wrong as I believe you are. No insult intended. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 8:56:28 PM EDT
[#41]
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Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. I know you can't see this, or won't, but it's so unnecessary to do this. It's so rude, a lot of people can't tolerate it.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. I know you can't see this, or won't, but it's so unnecessary to do this. It's so rude, a lot of people can't tolerate it.
Quoted:
No, not at all. It is exactly what you as a Catholic believe about Protestants. I believe you misunderstand the Greek. You believe that I do. You believe I am just as wrong as I believe you are. No insult intended. I will freely admit that that sentence (at the first of the thread) didn't come out as I intended it too. I did not intend to insult anyone, and apologize if I did. But, as I correctly stated, I believe your doctrines are wrong, just as Catholics believe mine and other Protestants doctrines are wrong. For you to pretend that such is not the case is dishonest, and you know it. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' it's well known that Jesus only spoke in the English of the one true bible the KJV. All that foreigner language talk is nonsense and they could understand Jesus and the apostles way back then because of all that speakin' in tongues business. All that Greek and Latin chatter is Papist nonsense because even way back in the 300's those fish eaters were tryin' to discredit good king James. It's all in the bible. Pastor Bob will show you where after three hours of praise and worship music. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:12:19 PM EDT
[#42]
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I will freely admit that that sentence (at the first of the thread) didn't come out as I intended it too. I did not intend to insult anyone, and apologize if I did. But, as I correctly stated, I believe your doctrines are wrong, just as Catholics believe mine and other Protestants doctrines are wrong. For you to pretend that such is not the case is dishonest, and you know it. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. I know you can't see this, or won't, but it's so unnecessary to do this. It's so rude, a lot of people can't tolerate it.
Quoted:
No, not at all. It is exactly what you as a Catholic believe about Protestants. I believe you misunderstand the Greek. You believe that I do. You believe I am just as wrong as I believe you are. No insult intended. I will freely admit that that sentence (at the first of the thread) didn't come out as I intended it too. I did not intend to insult anyone, and apologize if I did. But, as I correctly stated, I believe your doctrines are wrong, just as Catholics believe mine and other Protestants doctrines are wrong. For you to pretend that such is not the case is dishonest, and you know it. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' it's well known that Jesus only spoke in the English of the one true bible the KJV. All that foreigner language talk is nonsense and they could understand Jesus and the apostles way back then because of all that speakin' in tongues business. All that Greek and Latin chatter is Papist nonsense because even way back in the 300's those fish eaters were tryin' to discredit good king James. It's all in the bible. Pastor Bob will show you where after three hours of praise and worship music. If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:20:52 PM EDT
[#43]
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If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:22:59 PM EDT
[#44]
peanut butter sandwich......oh, I thought this was "what do you eat with your chili?" |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:33:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will freely admit that that sentence (at the first of the thread) didn't come out as I intended it too. I did not intend to insult anyone, and apologize if I did. But, as I correctly stated, I believe your doctrines are wrong, just as Catholics believe mine and other Protestants doctrines are wrong. For you to pretend that such is not the case is dishonest, and you know it. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. I know you can't see this, or won't, but it's so unnecessary to do this. It's so rude, a lot of people can't tolerate it.
Quoted:
No, not at all. It is exactly what you as a Catholic believe about Protestants. I believe you misunderstand the Greek. You believe that I do. You believe I am just as wrong as I believe you are. No insult intended. I will freely admit that that sentence (at the first of the thread) didn't come out as I intended it too. I did not intend to insult anyone, and apologize if I did. But, as I correctly stated, I believe your doctrines are wrong, just as Catholics believe mine and other Protestants doctrines are wrong. For you to pretend that such is not the case is dishonest, and you know it. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' it's well known that Jesus only spoke in the English of the one true bible the KJV. All that foreigner language talk is nonsense and they could understand Jesus and the apostles way back then because of all that speakin' in tongues business. All that Greek and Latin chatter is Papist nonsense because even way back in the 300's those fish eaters were tryin' to discredit good king James. It's all in the bible. Pastor Bob will show you where after three hours of praise and worship music. You know--I actually read that "Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' soliloqy and heard John Goodman belting it out--and it was hysterically over-the-top. I just assumed it to be good-natured, tongue-in-cheek ribbing. I'd like to apologize on behalf of fish-eating Mary-worshipping AntiChrist-bringing Papist bastards everywhere. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:40:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Errr...meanwhile geneticists know the human genome is breaking down and information theory blows molecules-to-man naturalist hypothesese out of the water. The evidence that evolution is false is so overwhelming to see stuff like this just makes me
 . I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the plain declarations of Scripture and stick with the historical and exegetical understanding of Genesis, you could say the "traditional" view, that being if any church traditional exists it has ever been biblical 6 day creation. The notion that the Creator used a destructive process that looks meaningless, was thought up by people who hate Him, and specifically meant to oppose the history of Moses and the teological argument, ie. the major biblical theme that Creation points us to God and is clearly made, the notion that when God spoke the words and made what is scene out of what is invisible and what he meant was evolution....ahhh. I just cannot believe how uncritical atheists are of their naturalist beliefs and that Mary-worshipers are so accepting of such a clearly apostate organization. My Creator tells me to "test all things" and hypothesis such as Apostolic Succession, Rome's jurisdiction over Christ's body, the universe exploding all matters and laws into existence and producing such a low entropy state that is winding down, that expanding gas would collapse into stars, I mean...this stuff does not hold up under scrutiny and is held to by faith in spite of observable evidence. Evolution is held to in spite of the systematic absense of fossil transitions, in spite of the absurdity of applying Natural Selection to uhh..a bird, it has impotent arms for countless generations and its supposed to be "fittest", the absurdity that mutations create new information, even created the genome. The spiritual blindness is destroying actual scientific knowledge to instill new naturalist myths. It's Romans 1, everyone who rejects the Creator ends up worshiping the creation, professing to be wise they become fools.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:06:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to apologize on behalf of fish-eating Mary-worshipping AntiChrist-bringing Papist bastards everywhere. Why do you use such language? I don't think that of Catholics. Why do you talk like that? Good men can disagree without being insulting to each other. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:37:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you use such language? I don't think that of Catholics. Why do you talk like that? Good men can disagree without being insulting to each other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd like to apologize on behalf of fish-eating Mary-worshipping AntiChrist-bringing Papist bastards everywhere. Why do you use such language? I don't think that of Catholics. Why do you talk like that? Good men can disagree without being insulting to each other. I know you don't think that of Catholics, O_P. I talk like that because some people find it funny. I understand if you don't. Peace be with you. 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:52:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Errr...meanwhile geneticists know the human genome is breaking down and information theory blows molecules-to-man naturalist hypothesese out of the water. The evidence that evolution is false is so overwhelming to see stuff like this just makes me . I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the plain declarations of Scripture and stick with the historical and exegetical understanding of Genesis, you could say the "traditional" view, that being if any church traditional exists it has ever been biblical 6 day creation. The notion that the Creator used a destructive process that looks meaningless, was thought up by people who hate Him, and specifically meant to oppose the history of Moses and the teological argument, ie. the major biblical theme that Creation points us to God and is clearly made, the notion that when God spoke the words and made what is scene out of what is invisible and what he meant was evolution....ahhh. I just cannot believe how uncritical atheists are of their naturalist beliefs and that Mary-worshipers are so accepting of such a clearly apostate organization. My Creator tells me to "test all things" and hypothesis such as Apostolic Succession, Rome's jurisdiction over Christ's body, the universe exploding all matters and laws into existence and producing such a low entropy state that is winding down, that expanding gas would collapse into stars, I mean...this stuff does not hold up under scrutiny and is held to by faith in spite of observable evidence. Evolution is held to in spite of the systematic absense of fossil transitions, in spite of the absurdity of applying Natural Selection to uhh..a bird, it has impotent arms for countless generations and its supposed to be "fittest", the absurdity that mutations create new information, even created the genome. The spiritual blindness is destroying actual scientific knowledge to instill new naturalist myths. It's Romans 1, everyone who rejects the Creator ends up worshiping the creation, professing to be wise they become fools.
What the fuck did I just read? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:59:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know you don't think that of Catholics, O_P. Well, thank you. |
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