User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:04:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What would happen if I trained one or both of my weimaraners to "alert" on a car by whatever means/signals/prompts and video the whole thing and posted it to Youtube? If a police K-9 alerts on some part of a car and the cop gets a search warrant...they go to search that part of the car and find nothing, but say.... go to the trunk and just so happen to find a dime bag? Warrant is still good, right? So the driver is going to jail and the car is going to be seized, right? K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. Apparently the Dogs are a whole lot less accurate than most people believe: The Tribune spoke to a few dog experts and they almost universally blamed the handlers:
Dog handlers can accidentally cue alerts from their dogs by leading them too slowly or too many times around a vehicle, said Lawrence Myers, an Auburn University professor who studies detector dogs. Myers pointed to the "Clever Hans" phenomenon in the early 1900s, named after a horse whose owner claimed the animal could read and do math before a psychologist determined the horse was actually responding to his master's unwitting cues. Training is the key to eliminating accidental cues and false alerts, said Paul Waggoner of Auburn's detector-dog research program. "Is there a potential for handlers to cue these dogs to alert?" he asked. "The answer is a big, resounding yes." http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/27/how-even-a-well-trained-narcotics-detect http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/07/132738250/report-drug-sniffing-dogs-are-wrong-more-often-than-right |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:05:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:09:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? ever heard of residual? if he smoked out of it, they would know |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:16:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? no...no.... they were in the hoody.... thats what the cop gets for being soft 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:20:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ever heard of residual? if he smoked out of it, they would know Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? ever heard of residual? if he smoked out of it, they would know I was just asking a question. The article makes no mention of residual. It says the cop smelled burned marijuana. It says they found no marijuana, which implies unsmoked, and why would anyone carry around a new clean pipe? The cop was a dick for not letting him get his phone and leaving him along the side of the road. If you're not giving him a ride home after towing his car, at least let him get his phone to call someone to pick him up. This applies if it's in the middle of the summer and not cold out too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:32:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some days we are really on the same sheet of music. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those pensions aren't going to pay for themselves. Some days we are really on the same sheet of music. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1670896_60__of__gov_retirees_making_over___100k_w_traditional_pensions_are_uniformed_retirees__cops_firemen_.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:34:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't the cop say that he himself smelled MJ? If so, that's PC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OK, I read the article. The paraphernalia wasn't found until after the vehicle was towed & searched. The PC was his previous arrest, visine, an air freshener, and the officer's non-drug sniffing dag. The lawsuit also claims the dag never left the officer's vehicle (that should be easy to prove or disprove with the dashcam). So I guess the question is, does the visine, air freshener, untrained dog, and previous arrest, constitute Probable Cause? What say you ARFcops? is that enough for a search warrant  Didn't the cop say that he himself smelled MJ? If so, that's PC. No, that's a manufactured exigency. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:53:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Well that is fucked up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:50:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You hid that stuff real good, didn't ya?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. That wasn't my experience during my high school years. You hid that stuff real good, didn't ya? Gotta have a good trap.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 11:20:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"ACLU of Vermont staff attorney Dan Barrett noted that small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013 and asserts Hatch had no probable cause to seize Zullo’s car. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " A small amount is still illegal, and how would the cop know how much is in a vehicle untill he searches it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " A small amount is still illegal, and how would the cop know how much is in a vehicle untill he searches it? And some people aren't allowed to carry guns. Better check the papers of everyone with a gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:04:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Seems some things need to be cleared up.
The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:11:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Oh boy I want the background on this guy... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:17:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does one know they didn't plant the grinder and pipe? I'm sorry to say, I don't trust cops anymore Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. How does one know they didn't plant the grinder and pipe? I'm sorry to say, I don't trust cops anymore So you think they would plant that crap and not the drugs too? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:19:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. PER THE ARTICLE... .. small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013... “There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:22:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Said" he smelled. Prove he really smelled it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK, I read the article. The paraphernalia wasn't found until after the vehicle was towed & searched. The PC was his previous arrest, visine, an air freshener, and the officer's non-drug sniffing dag. The lawsuit also claims the dag never left the officer's vehicle (that should be easy to prove or disprove with the dashcam). So I guess the question is, does the visine, air freshener, untrained dog, and previous arrest, constitute Probable Cause? What say you ARFcops? is that enough for a search warrant
You left out the odor of marijuana which the cop smelled IIRC. That's PC for search. "Said" he smelled. Prove he really smelled it. Prove that he didn't. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:28:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prove that he didn't.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OK, I read the article. The paraphernalia wasn't found until after the vehicle was towed & searched. The PC was his previous arrest, visine, an air freshener, and the officer's non-drug sniffing dag. The lawsuit also claims the dag never left the officer's vehicle (that should be easy to prove or disprove with the dashcam). So I guess the question is, does the visine, air freshener, untrained dog, and previous arrest, constitute Probable Cause? What say you ARFcops? is that enough for a search warrant
You left out the odor of marijuana which the cop smelled IIRC. That's PC for search. "Said" he smelled. Prove he really smelled it. Prove that he didn't.
Weed hadn't been smoked in that car especially not recently. It was cigarette if anything he smelled. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:34:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh boy I want the background on this guy... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Oh boy I want the background on this guy... http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 3:38:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Oh boy I want the background on this guy... http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:02:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Oh boy I want the background on this guy... http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. This thread suddenly got more interesting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:09:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bahhahahhaaaaaaa................do you believe in dowsing rods too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What would happen if I trained one or both of my weimaraners to "alert" on a car by whatever means/signals/prompts and video the whole thing and posted it to Youtube? If a police K-9 alerts on some part of a car and the cop gets a search warrant...they go to search that part of the car and find nothing, but say.... go to the trunk and just so happen to find a dime bag? Warrant is still good, right? So the driver is going to jail and the car is going to be seized, right? K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. Bahhahahhaaaaaaa................do you believe in dowsing rods too? Do you understand the difference between "believe" and personal experience? Guess it's a hard concept for a basement dweller to grasp... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:12:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PER THE ARTICLE... .. small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013... “There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. PER THE ARTICLE... .. small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013... “There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” Again, if it's a civil infraction how does one get detained > cited for this infraction? What's the mechanism? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:19:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, if it's a civil infraction how does one get detained > cited for this infraction? What's the mechanism? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. PER THE ARTICLE... .. small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013... “There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” Again, if it's a civil infraction how does one get detained > cited for this infraction? What's the mechanism? Same way you get a parking ticket, right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:26:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems some things need to be cleared up. The pipe was only half a pipe. Missing the stem. The stem is the part you put your mouth on. The pipe couldn't possibly have been used. I'm going to go ahead and say Zullo never used the pipe at all. The grinder was in a backpack inside of the car and only was found after the illegal seizure of the vehicle. The smell of burnt marijuana was in fact a cigarette that had been smoked in the car around 7AM that day. The stop occurred around 3:30-4 I believe. (3/6/2014) Maybe he smoked them already with the pipe they found? The pipe wasn't usable. The previous encounter the year prior is irrelevant. The charges were dropped. The K9 was not a drug sniffing dog. The dog couldn't be used to get probable cause. Not to mention when he gets out of the car the dog immediately starts going crazy. As for the hoody, there was a winter jacket in the vehicle. The cop only grabbed the sweatshirt. The cop has been sued already this year for another stop that turned up nothing. So this is number 2 this year already for Officer Lewis Hatch. Anyway I must get to work soon! Oh boy I want the background on this guy... http://vtdigger.org/2012/05/07/sorrell-vermont-state-police-officer-justified-in-use-of-deadly-force/ http://digital.vpr.net/post/vermont-aclu-sues-state-over-traffic-stop-car-seizure At the end of this video, they explain more about the other lawsuit. http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new-york/burlington/aclu-files-lawsuit-against-state-following-traffic-stop/28202392 WOW... same Trooper strip searched two guys on the side of the road (again found nothing either time) and getting sued for those too !!! That one is in Federal court. I think I smell smoke..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:42:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 4:44:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Edited to include that. Is possession of small quantities a crime in CA? (Not familiar with CA laws) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. Edited to include that. Quoted:
Yeah, lots of derp in that article. In California, that'd be plenty of PC to search the vehicle without consent. Is possession of small quantities a crime in CA? (Not familiar with CA laws) If the officer legitimately felt that the driver was intoxicated by Marijuana, he should have gotten a warrant for a blood draw, not seized the kid's car based on a hunch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 6:44:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same way you get a parking ticket, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. PER THE ARTICLE... .. small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013... “There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” Again, if it's a civil infraction how does one get detained > cited for this infraction? What's the mechanism? Same way you get a parking ticket, right? Not sure if you're serious. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 6:46:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the officer legitimately felt that the driver was intoxicated by Marijuana, he should have gotten a warrant for a blood draw, not seized the kid's car based on a hunch. Where did DUI by MJ come into the discussion? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 6:59:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did DUI by MJ come into the discussion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the officer legitimately felt that the driver was intoxicated by Marijuana, he should have gotten a warrant for a blood draw, not seized the kid's car based on a hunch. Where did DUI by MJ come into the discussion? If the odor of MJ was supposedly noticeable in the vehicle and the only person was the driver, is that so much different the the odor of alcohol inside a vehicle when the only person is the driver? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 7:15:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the odor of MJ was supposedly noticeable in the vehicle and the only person was the driver, is that so much different the the odor of alcohol inside a vehicle when the only person is the driver? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the officer legitimately felt that the driver was intoxicated by Marijuana, he should have gotten a warrant for a blood draw, not seized the kid's car based on a hunch. Where did DUI by MJ come into the discussion? If the odor of MJ was supposedly noticeable in the vehicle and the only person was the driver, is that so much different the the odor of alcohol inside a vehicle when the only person is the driver? Odor in the car doesn't necessarily mean the driver was consuming/partaking or under the influence. I took a crash where one of the cars smelled like a brewery - because the driver had just been at the grocery store and bought a six pack of some nasty malt liquor and it ruptured during the impact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 7:41:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Considering dogs are wrong more often than not, it's interesting to me all of the people cheerleading for Officer McSnifferson.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 7:51:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I knew it!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back at the Rutland state police barracks... I knew it!!! Lol, right? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:29:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Considering dogs are wrong more often than not, it's interesting to me all of the people cheerleading for Officer McSnifferson. Do hunting dog trainers disclose that their dogs are wrong more often than not? Is there any credible proof - ie on the dash cam video/audio - that the officer said his dog smelled drugs in the guy's car? I'm not watching an hour long video anytime soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:42:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do hunting dog trainers disclose that their dogs are wrong more often than not? Is there any credible proof - ie on the dash cam video/audio - that the officer said his dog smelled drugs in the guy's car? I'm not watching an hour long video anytime soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Considering dogs are wrong more often than not, it's interesting to me all of the people cheerleading for Officer McSnifferson. Do hunting dog trainers disclose that their dogs are wrong more often than not? Is there any credible proof - ie on the dash cam video/audio - that the officer said his dog smelled drugs in the guy's car? I'm not watching an hour long video anytime soon. Do hunting dog trainers make up shit to arrest people and/or seize assets? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:51:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Odor in the car doesn't necessarily mean the driver was consuming/partaking or under the influence. I took a crash where one of the cars smelled like a brewery - because the driver had just been at the grocery store and bought a six pack of some nasty malt liquor and it ruptured during the impact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the officer legitimately felt that the driver was intoxicated by Marijuana, he should have gotten a warrant for a blood draw, not seized the kid's car based on a hunch. Where did DUI by MJ come into the discussion? If the odor of MJ was supposedly noticeable in the vehicle and the only person was the driver, is that so much different the the odor of alcohol inside a vehicle when the only person is the driver? Odor in the car doesn't necessarily mean the driver was consuming/partaking or under the influence. I took a crash where one of the cars smelled like a brewery - because the driver had just been at the grocery store and bought a six pack of some nasty malt liquor and it ruptured during the impact. I'm not talking about a T/A incident, just a plain traffic stop. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 8:58:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. I want a nuclear weapon.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:17:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want a nuclear weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. I want a nuclear weapon. You'll shoot your eye out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:20:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll shoot your eye out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. I want a nuclear weapon. You'll shoot your eye out. I'll wear goggles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:24:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll wear goggles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The very definition of Tyranny is when the Government can do things that would be illegal for you to do. I want a nuclear weapon. You'll shoot your eye out. I'll wear goggles. The goggles do nothing.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:24:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do hunting dog trainers make up shit to arrest people and/or seize assets? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Considering dogs are wrong more often than not, it's interesting to me all of the people cheerleading for Officer McSnifferson. Do hunting dog trainers disclose that their dogs are wrong more often than not? Is there any credible proof - ie on the dash cam video/audio - that the officer said his dog smelled drugs in the guy's car? I'm not watching an hour long video anytime soon. Do hunting dog trainers make up shit to arrest people and/or seize assets? Ah, got it - your issue isn't the validity of the tool/technology. It's who uses the tool. Again, any credible proof the cop in this story actually said his dog that never left the back seat and isn't a drug dog actually alerted? Maybe he did. Maybe the article is written to get a specific response from readers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not talking about a T/A incident, just a plain traffic stop. What point are you trying to make? The person I quoted implied the driver was DUI but I didn't see that in the article - I asked for a cite. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:28:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, got it - your issue isn't the validity of the tool/technology. It's who uses the tool. Again, any credible proof the cop in this story actually said his dog that never left the back seat and isn't a drug dog actually alerted? Maybe he did. Maybe the article is written to get a specific response from readers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Considering dogs are wrong more often than not, it's interesting to me all of the people cheerleading for Officer McSnifferson. Do hunting dog trainers disclose that their dogs are wrong more often than not? Is there any credible proof - ie on the dash cam video/audio - that the officer said his dog smelled drugs in the guy's car? I'm not watching an hour long video anytime soon. Do hunting dog trainers make up shit to arrest people and/or seize assets? Ah, got it - your issue isn't the validity of the tool/technology. It's who uses the tool. Again, any credible proof the cop in this story actually said his dog that never left the back seat and isn't a drug dog actually alerted? Maybe he did. Maybe the article is written to get a specific response from readers. Actually you don't got it. All the reports I've posted over the years indicate that either dogs are worse than random chance or that cops don't want the information tabulated. This isn't just about this toolbag but the unwillingness of the law enforcement community to embrace transparency. Obama's administration could learn a thing or two. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:30:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was the pipe and grinder his. If so, good search. If not... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So... (allegedly) cop pulls kid over, says he smells pot and wants to search the car, and has it towed when the guy says no. Then later gets a warrant for it. The American Civil Liberties Union of Vermont filed the lawsuit on behalf Gregory Zullo, 21, whose car was seized by Vermont State Police after a traffic stop in March that left Zullo by the side of the road in 20-degree weather. ........... Hatch told Zullo that he should give consent to search the vehicle because Hatch’s police dog “smelled something,” despite the fact the dog was not trained in drug detection and was kept in the trooper’s vehicle with the windows rolled up, the lawsuit alleges. Again, Zullo refused to waive his rights, and Hatch told Zullo he was seizing his car. Hatch’s cruiser’s audio and video system recorded a telephone conversation — the complaint doesn’t specify with whom — in which Hatch said, “I can smell weed and he won’t allow me to search, so I’m just going to take it.” ........... Police left Zullo on the side of the road, 8 miles from home, with his hooded sweatshirt to keep warm. According to the National Weather Service, on March 6 temperatures reached a high of 21 degrees. Back at the Rutland state police barracks, Hatch received a search warrant based upon his assertion he could smell burnt marijuana in the car, and that the car contained an air freshener and a bottle of Visine eye drops, records state. The search turned up a pipe and a grinder — used to break up marijuana — but no marijuana, the complaint states. Article Was the pipe and grinder his. If so, good search. If not... That is assuming the pipe and grinder find is accurate. Was there even any residue on the pipe? I knew 2 people in town here who were arrested and charged with cooking/making drugs in their basement. It even hit the local tv news reports. Until a week later they figured out that all they were doing was making homemade artesian soap in their basement. So do we trust that pipe wasn't a legit tobacco pipe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:38:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually you don't got it. All the reports I've posted over the years indicate that either dogs are worse than random chance or that cops don't want the information tabulated. This isn't just about this toolbag but the unwillingness of the law enforcement community to embrace transparency. Obama's administration could learn a thing or two. So Billy Bob's prized pointer is worse than random chance? .Mil bomb dogs are worse than random chance? Diabetic dogs are worse than random chance? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dogs are not foolproof. Poor/crooked Trainers/handlers can fuck things up. Human officers not finding usable qty's does not mean the odor wasn't present. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 9:49:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So Billy Bob's prized pointer is worse than random chance? .Mil bomb dogs are worse than random chance? Diabetic dogs are worse than random chance? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dogs are not foolproof. Poor/crooked Trainers/handlers can fuck things up. Human officers not finding usable qty's does not mean the odor wasn't present. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually you don't got it. All the reports I've posted over the years indicate that either dogs are worse than random chance or that cops don't want the information tabulated. This isn't just about this toolbag but the unwillingness of the law enforcement community to embrace transparency. Obama's administration could learn a thing or two. So Billy Bob's prized pointer is worse than random chance? .Mil bomb dogs are worse than random chance? Diabetic dogs are worse than random chance? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dogs are not foolproof. Poor/crooked Trainers/handlers can fuck things up. Human officers not finding usable qty's does not mean the odor wasn't present. How far down do you think you have to parse this until you can convince yourself that you can convince others that you're right? Dogs are used by cops as walking pretext and this is just another example. How about sticking to the matter at hand instead trying to continually move the goalposts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 11:01:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://imgur.com/QKFWgKl |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 11:03:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://i.imgur.com/QKFWgKl.jpg?1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://i.imgur.com/QKFWgKl.jpg?1 oh snap |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2014 11:04:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://imgur.com/QKFWgKl Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://imgur.com/QKFWgKl So was their MJ residue in the grinder and pipe they found in your car? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 12:02:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So was their MJ residue in the grinder and pipe they found in your car? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://imgur.com/QKFWgKl So was their MJ residue in the grinder and pipe they found in your car? They found marijuana residue on the pipe but honestly I never once used that pipe and the police only have the bowl part of it because it wasn't together at the time. I hadn't smoked for 2-3 days prior to this whole thing. (And not in my car) My car only could have smelled like cigarette. Grinder was empty. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 12:24:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far down do you think you have to parse this until you can convince yourself that you can convince others that you're right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
How far down do you think you have to parse this until you can convince yourself that you can convince others that you're right? I just enjoy pointing out the inconsistencies in people's arguements. Quoted:
Dogs are used by cops as walking pretext and this is just another example. I haven't seen it personally but I'm sure it happens with shitty/corrupt handlers. Just like I'm sure cops have lied to obtain a warrant. Doesn't mean the tool itself is the root cause. Quoted:
How about sticking to the matter at hand instead trying to continually move the goalposts. Now this is just priceless coming from you 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 12:29:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They found marijuana residue on the pipe but honestly I never once used that pipe and the police only have the bowl part of it because it wasn't together at the time. I hadn't smoked for 2-3 days prior to this whole thing. (And not in my car) My car only could have smelled like cigarette. Grinder was empty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I meant you, no offense. Join date essentially now and this is your first post from Vermont and you claim inside knowledge. No doubt. (I was only talking in third person because it was convenient.) http://imgur.com/QKFWgKl So was their MJ residue in the grinder and pipe they found in your car? They found marijuana residue on the pipe but honestly I never once used that pipe and the police only have the bowl part of it because it wasn't together at the time. I hadn't smoked for 2-3 days prior to this whole thing. (And not in my car) My car only could have smelled like cigarette. Grinder was empty. Do you have a copy of the police report? MJ residue in the pipe that was found in the car but there couldn't be MJ odor in the car? Did the officer actually say his dog alerted or is that journalistic license by a creative lawyer? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
