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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:11:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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LOL You are proof that some cops (retired, right?) are not the bad guys. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Where I am at there is no need for a warrant to search your car as long as the officer "smells" something. Guess how often they "smell" something? Yup, you guessed it, damn near every time. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/wetsuit_zpsf7ba615f.jpg LOL You are proof that some cops (retired, right?) are not the bad guys. That was a great thread. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:12:05 PM EDT
[#2]
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A case could be argued, but the presence paraphernalia does not mean that he actually smelled marijuana. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe where you are they don't. But that doesn't mean that there aren't many places that they do. All one has to do is look at the daily news to see that your assertion, if taken to mean that it never happens anywhere, is false. Where I am at there is no need for a warrant to search your car as long as the officer "smells" something. Guess how often they "smell" something? Yup, you guessed it, damn near every time. Then this case should not upset you considering the officer went to the trouble of getting a warrant. Considering some evidence used in smoking marijuana was found, a compelling case can be made that the officer was not in fact lying about smelling marijuana. We can argue about drug laws or whatever another time and I don't like this stop for a variety of reasons, however, if anything it shows your earlier assertions about lying cops and search warrants to actually be off base if anything. A case could be argued, but the presence paraphernalia does not mean that he actually smelled marijuana. The case that he did is stronger then not according to a reasonable person standard, and a totality of the circumstances. 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:21:11 PM EDT
[#3]
"i smelled MJ" is the new "he made a furtive movement"
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:25:28 PM EDT
[#4]
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"i smelled MJ" is the new "he made a furtive movement" New? |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:28:52 PM EDT
[#5]
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons.
Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:36:40 PM EDT
[#6]
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. That is too difficult a concept for some here. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:46:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it really that hard to keep your coat on and adjust the car's interior temperature accordingly? On cold days (-20 last winter) I drove with a hoodie on under my Carhartt coat, and kept my gloves in my pockets. Maybe this deserves a thread of it's own? "Bugging out when you can't get to your bug-out bag." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If the day's high temperature will be 21 degrees and you're in a hoodie you lose the right to bitch about the cold. I always tell my son "don't dress for the walk to the car, dress for the walk home from the crash." What makes you think the cop would have let him retrieve them?  Is it really that hard to keep your coat on and adjust the car's interior temperature accordingly? On cold days (-20 last winter) I drove with a hoodie on under my Carhartt coat, and kept my gloves in my pockets. Maybe this deserves a thread of it's own? "Bugging out when you can't get to your bug-out bag." Then there is preparing to survive an encounter with a power hungry asshole cop...the solution there isn't to wear warm cloths it's to carry a camera and sue the living shit out of the department.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:48:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So... (allegedly) cop pulls kid over, says he smells pot and wants to search the car, and has it towed when the guy says no. Then later gets a warrant for it. The American Civil Liberties Union of Vermont filed the lawsuit on behalf Gregory Zullo, 21, whose car was seized by Vermont State Police after a traffic stop in March that left Zullo by the side of the road in 20-degree weather. ........... Hatch told Zullo that he should give consent to search the vehicle because Hatch’s police dog "smelled something,” despite the fact the dog was not trained in drug detection and was kept in the trooper’s vehicle with the windows rolled up, the lawsuit alleges. Again, Zullo refused to waive his rights, and Hatch told Zullo he was seizing his car. Hatch’s cruiser’s audio and video system recorded a telephone conversation — the complaint doesn’t specify with whom — in which Hatch said, "I can smell weed and he won’t allow me to search, so I’m just going to take it.” ........... Police left Zullo on the side of the road, 8 miles from home, with his hooded sweatshirt to keep warm. According to the National Weather Service, on March 6 temperatures reached a high of 21 degrees. Back at the Rutland state police barracks, Hatch received a search warrant based upon his assertion he could smell burnt marijuana in the car, and that the car contained an air freshener and a bottle of Visine eye drops, records state. The search turned up a pipe and a grinder — used to break up marijuana — but no marijuana, the complaint states. Article Was the pipe and grinder his. If so, good search. If not... So the ends justify the means..... Got it. Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:50:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. "ACLU of Vermont staff attorney Dan Barrett noted that small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013 and asserts Hatch had no probable cause to seize Zullo’s car. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:50:36 PM EDT
[#10]
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you talk about not wanting to face the repercussions for violating laws, then don't violate laws. That applies mainly to the cop in this instance who broke one of the highest laws of the land vs the druggie who broke a very minor law. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves. What law is that? |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:55:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you fail at reading. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. "ACLU of Vermont staff attorney Dan Barrett noted that small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013 and asserts Hatch had no probable cause to seize Zullo’s car. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:56:09 PM EDT
[#12]
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What law is that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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you talk about not wanting to face the repercussions for violating laws, then don't violate laws. That applies mainly to the cop in this instance who broke one of the highest laws of the land vs the druggie who broke a very minor law. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves. What law is that? 4A |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:57:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. How about the dozen times I have been left standing by the side of the road, as the cops drive away disappointed that they didn't get to ruin another life, with everything from my car tossed in the mud after they didn't find anything when they were so sure they "smelled" something? Your experience is much different than mine it seems. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:58:05 PM EDT
[#14]
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4A Quote HistoryQuoted:
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you talk about not wanting to face the repercussions for violating laws, then don't violate laws. That applies mainly to the cop in this instance who broke one of the highest laws of the land vs the druggie who broke a very minor law. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves. What law is that? 4A At what point? You may not agree with drug laws, disagree with leaving him stranded, or feel the officer's motivations were bad, or argue that a search should have been conducted at the roadside, etc. However, the 4A was not violated in this stop from what I can gleam at this point. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:59:04 PM EDT
[#15]
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. That wasn't my experience during my high school years. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:01:49 AM EDT
[#16]
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Another question for the LEO's: I smelling MJ is enough for PC, why did he even bring up the visine, air freshener and drug dog? i.e., why muddy the waters? Not a drug dog. A K9 in the officer's car, not trained for drug searches. A dog that never left the officers's car. Just to be clear. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:04:46 AM EDT
[#17]
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you fail at reading. "ACLU of Vermont staff attorney Dan Barrett noted that small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013 and asserts Hatch had no probable cause to seize Zullo’s car. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the cop smelled weed he had PC, assuming weed is illegal there. "ACLU of Vermont staff attorney Dan Barrett noted that small amounts of marijuana were decriminalized in 2013 and asserts Hatch had no probable cause to seize Zullo’s car. "The police must stop treating people like criminals if they suspect that a small amount of marijuana is involved,” Barrett said in a statement. "There is no such thing as probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed when the ‘crime’ is a civil offense. Civil offenses aren’t crimes.” " So how does one get penalized with a civil infraction? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:07:03 AM EDT
[#18]
thanks, voodoo, citadel, good info.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:12:24 AM EDT
[#19]
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4A Quote HistoryQuoted:
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you talk about not wanting to face the repercussions for violating laws, then don't violate laws. That applies mainly to the cop in this instance who broke one of the highest laws of the land vs the druggie who broke a very minor law. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves. What law is that? 4A So getting a warrant now violates the 4A? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:13:06 AM EDT
[#20]
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thanks, voodoo, citadel, good info. You're welcome. 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:13:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Hey why didn't they arrest him for drug the paraphernalia?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:18:13 AM EDT
[#22]
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Why would any of that happen if nothing illegal is found? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh, so the proof was presented to the judge? You don't need proof for a warrant, you need PC. PC is a very low standard of proof meaning there is a fair probability that evidence of a crime or contraband will be found based on oath and affirmation. It is the standard for warrants and grand juries....not to be confused with a beyond reasonable doubt standard. This is what courts are for. Ah, so the cop could have just lied about the "smell" to the judge and after that it's OK to toss someone into the legal meat grinder. After they bankrupt their family on their defense they can get a court appointed attorney to represent them and the court will surely find them innocent if they committed no crime. 
So, the only thing between rule of law and tyranny is that certain people must be truthful when they have many incentives to lie and are often rewarded when they do so. Good system. I don't know. Maybe if someone's property is seized because it might yield something in a search? For less reason than is needed to search the property to begin with? Because someone claims to smell something? When they weren't willing to use that 'smelling something' to take action on their own? And isn't willing to go on record using 'smelling marijuana' as their PC for a search but still uses that as a reason to seize property? That sounds a bit arbitrary and capricious, but what do I know. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:19:56 AM EDT
[#23]
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. This was not a roadside search. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:23:57 AM EDT
[#24]
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What would happen if I trained one or both of my weimaraners to "alert" on a car by whatever means/signals/prompts and video the whole thing and posted it to Youtube? If a police K-9 alerts on some part of a car and the cop gets a search warrant...they go to search that part of the car and find nothing, but say.... go to the trunk and just so happen to find a dime bag? Warrant is still good, right? So the driver is going to jail and the car is going to be seized, right? K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:24:12 AM EDT
[#25]
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So getting a warrant now violates the 4A? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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you talk about not wanting to face the repercussions for violating laws, then don't violate laws. That applies mainly to the cop in this instance who broke one of the highest laws of the land vs the druggie who broke a very minor law. While I agree with 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time' this does not justify police breaking the laws themselves. What law is that? 4A So getting a warrant now violates the 4A? His vehicle was seized before the warrant was issued. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:39:24 AM EDT
[#26]
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His vehicle was seized before the warrant was issued. I wonder if the judge that issued the warrant knew the car had been seized before the warrant was issued? I'm guessing the judge knew all this and still issued the warrant despite stutzcattle's belief the 4A was violated. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:51:58 AM EDT
[#27]
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That wasn't my experience during my high school years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. That wasn't my experience during my high school years. You hid that stuff real good, didn't ya?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:52:57 AM EDT
[#28]
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I wonder if the judge that issued the warrant knew the car had been seized before the warrant was issued? I'm guessing the judge knew all this and still issued the warrant despite stutzcattle's belief the 4A was violated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His vehicle was seized before the warrant was issued. I wonder if the judge that issued the warrant knew the car had been seized before the warrant was issued? I'm guessing the judge knew all this and still issued the warrant despite stutzcattle's belief the 4A was violated. Those pesky judges. How dare they not poll GD before signing search warrants.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:02:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edited to include that. Is possession of small quantities a crime in CA? (Not familiar with CA laws) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. Edited to include that. Quoted: Yeah, lots of derp in that article. In California, that'd be plenty of PC to search the vehicle without consent. Is possession of small quantities a crime in CA? (Not familiar with CA laws) Technically, it's and infraction, but it gets you inside the car to find the source and also as evidence of DUI/marijuana. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:11:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know. Maybe if someone's property is seized because it might yield something in a search? For less reason than is needed to search the property to begin with? Because someone claims to smell something? When they weren't willing to use that 'smelling something' to take action on their own? And isn't willing to go on record using 'smelling marijuana' as their PC for a search but still uses that as a reason to seize property? That sounds a bit arbitrary and capricious, but what do I know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh, so the proof was presented to the judge? You don't need proof for a warrant, you need PC. PC is a very low standard of proof meaning there is a fair probability that evidence of a crime or contraband will be found based on oath and affirmation. It is the standard for warrants and grand juries....not to be confused with a beyond reasonable doubt standard. This is what courts are for. Ah, so the cop could have just lied about the "smell" to the judge and after that it's OK to toss someone into the legal meat grinder. After they bankrupt their family on their defense they can get a court appointed attorney to represent them and the court will surely find them innocent if they committed no crime. So, the only thing between rule of law and tyranny is that certain people must be truthful when they have many incentives to lie and are often rewarded when they do so. Good system. I don't know. Maybe if someone's property is seized because it might yield something in a search? For less reason than is needed to search the property to begin with? Because someone claims to smell something? When they weren't willing to use that 'smelling something' to take action on their own? And isn't willing to go on record using 'smelling marijuana' as their PC for a search but still uses that as a reason to seize property? That sounds a bit arbitrary and capricious, but what do I know. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:27:18 AM EDT
[#31]
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Nope. The cop said he smelled MJ. That alone is PC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read the whole thing. They found a grinder and pipe and he'd been pinched once for misdemeanor personal possession of MJ (dismissed) so I'm sure some will ignore the violation of rights. But if you read the whole thing, morally and legally that cop deserves charges as does the supervisor he seemed to be getting permission from over the phone. Disgusting. The cop got a warrant, signed by a judge. Where is this violation of rights you speak of? What was the probable cause for the warrant ? The cops lied to the judge to get the warrant as the story reads Nope. The cop said he smelled MJ. That alone is PC. I get that, but I don't get saying the dog smelled it from inside the officer's vehicle. If the officer already had PC based on his own nose why even bother bringing the dog into it that may never have left the officer's vehicle? After watching the vid, I didn't see the dog. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:47:26 AM EDT
[#32]
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Yeah, lots of derp in that article. In California, that'd be plenty of PC to search the vehicle without consent. And that is why you have absolutely zero 4th amendment protection while in your vehicle. All a police officer has to say is "I smell weed" and boom, PC. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:51:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing that concerns me, is that he states that he smelled the MJ after he checked the guy's history. That is a major red flag. That sounds like a fishing expedition. Smelling MJ is enough PC here however... and we have towed vehicles and gotten search warrants, just based on smell alone. I know for a fact that the ACLU is looking for the test case on smell alone for MJ. In other words, smell absent any other factors does not mean PC. They haven't gotten it, but, they're looking for it. As they should. There's no place in a free society to be searched by the King's men just because they smell something. Especially when they so often don't find anything after the fact. That shit probably wouldn't even have flown in George III's day. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:51:38 AM EDT
[#34]
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Is it really that hard to keep your coat on and adjust the car's interior temperature accordingly? On cold days (-20 last winter) I drove with a hoodie on under my Carhartt coat, and kept my gloves in my pockets. Maybe this deserves a thread of it's own? "Bugging out when you can't get to your bug-out bag." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the day's high temperature will be 21 degrees and you're in a hoodie you lose the right to bitch about the cold. I always tell my son "don't dress for the walk to the car, dress for the walk home from the crash." What makes you think the cop would have let him retrieve them?
Is it really that hard to keep your coat on and adjust the car's interior temperature accordingly? On cold days (-20 last winter) I drove with a hoodie on under my Carhartt coat, and kept my gloves in my pockets. Maybe this deserves a thread of it's own? "Bugging out when you can't get to your bug-out bag." Why the fuck would I drive with a bulky ass coat when my car has a heater? I can set it in the seat next to me and in 99.99% of any feasible scenario I will be able to don it when necessary. You're trying really hard to make this about the stupid hoody and not the theft of the guys car. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:52:52 AM EDT
[#35]
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I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. There's always drugs, if they don't find them, they were just well hidden. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:58:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. Quote HistoryQuoted: In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. They didn't find any MJ in this case. Or in many others. I've highlighted the relevant portions of the amendment for you. Progressives often like to cherry pick various words in them, to weaken them and advance their agenda; a well regulated militia... |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:02:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's always drugs, if they don't find them, they were just well hidden. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. There's always drugs, if they don't find them, they were just well hidden. Sometimes really well, apparently. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:06:32 AM EDT
[#38]
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They didn't find any MJ in this case. Or in many others. I've highlighted the relevant portions of the amendment for you. Progressives often like to cherry pick various words in them, to weaken them and advance their agenda; a well regulated militia... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. They didn't find any MJ in this case. Or in many others. I've highlighted the relevant portions of the amendment for you. Progressives often like to cherry pick various words in them, to weaken them and advance their agenda; a well regulated militia... America is about 95% progressive at this point, with two wings of the progressive party fighting for control. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:11:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Sorry, if you don't want to get pinched for violated drug laws .... don't do drugs. It is still illegal in VT. If you smoke in your car and you are surprised that someone can smell it, maybe drugs do mess up your brain. As for leaving the dumbass on the side of the road ... bad move. I guess you missed the part where they didn't find any drugs. There's always drugs, if they don't find them, they were just well hidden. Sometimes really well, apparently. They just needed to do a little exploratory surgery, they were almost there. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:30:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the day's high temperature will be 21 degrees and you're in a hoodie you lose the right to bitch about the cold. I always tell my son "don't dress for the walk to the car, dress for the walk home from the crash." My father always told me to leave my coat on while driving in winter (I'm from New England - MA and NH). He was LEO, seen too many people suffer from exposure trapped in car accidents during winter. I can't say I always listened to his advice, but did whenever it was snowing or the roads hadn't been plowed. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:41:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cop didn't allow him to retrieve his wallet and phone from the car prior to towing, acorrding to the complaint, so I'd say it's not a stretch to think the cop was just trying to be the biggest cocksucker he could possibly be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If the day's high temperature will be 21 degrees and you're in a hoodie you lose the right to bitch about the cold. I always tell my son "don't dress for the walk to the car, dress for the walk home from the crash." What makes you think the cop would have let him retrieve them? Cop didn't allow him to retrieve his wallet and phone from the car prior to towing, acorrding to the complaint, so I'd say it's not a stretch to think the cop was just trying to be the biggest cocksucker he could possibly be. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:51:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Edited. Already covered.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 3:18:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the cop saw paraphernalia, and the guy has a drug record, and he claimed he smelled drugs. How is that not a good search  Cop sounds like a fucking prick for leaving the guy stranded, and not letting him retrieve his wallet/cell though. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 3:22:52 AM EDT
[#44]
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How about the dozen times I have been left standing by the side of the road, as the cops drive away disappointed that they didn't get to ruin another life, with everything from my car tossed in the mud after they didn't find anything when they were so sure they "smelled" something? Your experience is much different than mine it seems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. How about the dozen times I have been left standing by the side of the road, as the cops drive away disappointed that they didn't get to ruin another life, with everything from my car tossed in the mud after they didn't find anything when they were so sure they "smelled" something? Your experience is much different than mine it seems. Not trying to be an ass here, really. But how the hell did you get your vehicle tossed a dozen times? You are either the most unlucky man in the country, or something is up. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 3:29:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did eye drops and a air freshener become paraphernalia? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So the cop saw paraphernalia, and the guy has a drug record, and he claimed he smelled drugs. How is that not a good search
Cop sounds like a fucking prick for leaving the guy stranded, and not letting him retrieve his wallet/cell though. Yeah, I posted that w/o reading the article  .
The drug paraphernalia was discovered after the search. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 3:29:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not trying to be an ass here, really. But how the hell did you get your vehicle tossed a dozen times? You are either the most unlucky man in the country, or something is up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. How about the dozen times I have been left standing by the side of the road, as the cops drive away disappointed that they didn't get to ruin another life, with everything from my car tossed in the mud after they didn't find anything when they were so sure they "smelled" something? Your experience is much different than mine it seems. Not trying to be an ass here, really. But how the hell did you get your vehicle tossed a dozen times? You are either the most unlucky man in the country, or something is up. No shit, I noticed that too. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:18:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit, I noticed that too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In my experience, every time an officer smells MJ in a car and conducts a search, they, gasp, find MJ! They also tend to find other things like crack or guns in the possession of felons. Some people talk about the Constitution without ever reading it. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Case law says a roadside search based upon the odor of MJ is a reasonable search. How about the dozen times I have been left standing by the side of the road, as the cops drive away disappointed that they didn't get to ruin another life, with everything from my car tossed in the mud after they didn't find anything when they were so sure they "smelled" something? Your experience is much different than mine it seems. Not trying to be an ass here, really. But how the hell did you get your vehicle tossed a dozen times? You are either the most unlucky man in the country, or something is up. No shit, I noticed that too. Driving while under 25 years of age. Driving with a tattoo. Driving an older car as people starting out in life often do. Driving late at night. Driving near my apartment in the bad part of town. Driving through certain states with out of state tags. Being in a public park after dark. It's called aggressive profiling. Just enough there to get the cop's hopes up that they might bust someone while fishing with an "I smelled something" routine. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#48]
So the basic question involved was:
If the Officer didn't have enough probable cause for a roadside search.....did he have enough to impound the car and wait for a warrant? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:34:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that the cop was an ass, but did he honestly know beforehand that he was dealing with JUST weed? Doesn't seem that way based on the story. Let's play what if: What if he searched the car, just as the story says, based on the smell of weed, but instead of turning up nothing, he turns up four kilos of heroin and 1,000 pills? Then we wouldn't even be discussing this incident. The only reason we're discussing it is because they found nothing of importance, and human nature is to judge to morality or legality of doing something based on the result. Hindsight is 20/20. This bullshit comes from the same people who say "He only had a toy gun, why did you shoot him!" or "He was unarmed, why did you shoot him!" or "He was a good kid, why did you shoot him!" Because most humans can not look at the situation objectively. Those who can become cops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If story is accurate, cop is an ass. Who puts that much work in for a little weed or suspicion of weed....good lord. Also, seizing the car means the guy is basically your responsibility. You just can't leave him out there like that in those conditions. I agree that the cop was an ass, but did he honestly know beforehand that he was dealing with JUST weed? Doesn't seem that way based on the story. Let's play what if: What if he searched the car, just as the story says, based on the smell of weed, but instead of turning up nothing, he turns up four kilos of heroin and 1,000 pills? Then we wouldn't even be discussing this incident. The only reason we're discussing it is because they found nothing of importance, and human nature is to judge to morality or legality of doing something based on the result. Hindsight is 20/20. This bullshit comes from the same people who say "He only had a toy gun, why did you shoot him!" or "He was unarmed, why did you shoot him!" or "He was a good kid, why did you shoot him!" Because most humans can not look at the situation objectively. Those who can become cops. You didnt just say that with a straight face did you? So the ends justify the means.....outcome based police work as it were......what could possibly go wrong? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:47:49 AM EDT
[#50]
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K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen if I trained one or both of my weimaraners to "alert" on a car by whatever means/signals/prompts and video the whole thing and posted it to Youtube? If a police K-9 alerts on some part of a car and the cop gets a search warrant...they go to search that part of the car and find nothing, but say.... go to the trunk and just so happen to find a dime bag? Warrant is still good, right? So the driver is going to jail and the car is going to be seized, right? K9s are tested (and all tests and training are documented) on positive and negative hits. Sometimes I help the K9 officer at my department with this training. We pick four cars and I put some sort of narcotic on two of them. The dog has to have a record of accurately hitting on the positive vehicles, and not hitting on the negatives. Bahhahahhaaaaaaa................do you believe in dowsing rods too? |
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