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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:16:19 AM EDT
[#1]
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Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk 
The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp?  Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... I'm doing both 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:17:24 AM EDT
[#2]
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I believe a lower is a lower so long as its in spec and I have no problems with blems. That said, if they want to maintain their rep as tier 1, then they should not be selling blems, chainsaws, 2nds whatever they want to call them. You make a $350 receiver right or it goes in the scrap bin. Don't try to recoup losses on a 2nd rate finish, even by selling them at a reduced cost, doing so will only lower expectations. This is the result. I've read were Lamborghini scraps like 3 or 4 hoods to make one that meets its expectations and they do not try to recoup costs by selling those parts at a reduced rate. No scratch and dent sales, they are either right or they go to the chop saw. That's how tier 1 companies maintain their rep. Ferrari and Ducati were famous for clearcoating bugs right into the paint finish. Must have a lot of flying insects in Italy 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm doing both Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp? Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... I'm doing both  |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:18:51 AM EDT
[#4]
I always enjoy a chuckle watching the insanely priced lower crowd.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:20:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted:  |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:20:53 AM EDT
[#6]
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What makes them $250? I was always under the impression that a lower is a lower. Put a Noveske logo on a dog turd and a Noveske fanboy will give you $100 for it. That's why they sell for $250. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:21:05 AM EDT
[#7]
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The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. First thing I noticed. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:22:31 AM EDT
[#8]
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You must be an ARFCOMMER. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk
The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp? Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... I'm doing both All I'm missing is the paid membership, any donations? 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:22:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Yikes. I have 3 blems from Aero Precision, and they all look perfect when compared to that.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:23:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk
The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp? Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... You haven't read the thread then. Folks have called and Noveske is pretty much telling them tough shit... for now. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:23:37 AM EDT
[#11]
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Ive never found any blems on my psa blem lowers. I think they just do it to clear some stock Quote HistoryQuoted:
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PSA is where the value is these days. Still haven't been able to find any blems on the blem lowers and uppers I've bought. Ive never found any blems on my psa blem lowers. I think they just do it to clear some stock I've had some nasty blems on a previous order. I was disappoint 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:24:21 AM EDT
[#12]
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The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:25:05 AM EDT
[#13]
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Any plain jane, PSA or Anderson lower, I wouldn't even bat an eye at those marks. Paid a premium for a Noveske? Yeah, I'd be a bit upset. Exactly this. I'm picking up 2 andersons this weekend, would I care about those looking like that? Absolutely not. Still waiting on an AXTS ADAC, would I care then? Absolutely. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:25:35 AM EDT
[#14]
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You haven't read the thread then. Folks have called and Noveske is pretty much telling them tough shit... for now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk
The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp? Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... You haven't read the thread then. Folks have called and Noveske is pretty much telling them tough shit... for now. And somehow they continue living. Our lives are so hard. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:26:00 AM EDT
[#15]
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Without seeing it in person, you can't be sure, but that may very well become a functional issue. Some of the lowers that come through here don't have much extra room, and that could be enough to screw it up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:27:30 AM EDT
[#16]
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You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol That's not what I'm talking about genius. I'm talking about the shelf catching the flat of the take down pin. And if it's the hole, not the recess, that's off center, then it may not lock an upper onto it. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:27:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:28:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what I'm talking about genius. I'm talking about the shelf catching the flat of the take down pin. And if it's the hole, not the recess, that's off center, then it may not lock an upper onto it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The take down hole isn't even centered in the recess. You don't need to see that in person to see it's clearly not drilled center of the recess. lol That's not what I'm talking about genius. I'm talking about the shelf catching the flat of the take down pin. And if it's the hole, not the recess, that's off center, then it may not lock an upper onto it. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:28:42 AM EDT
[#19]
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And somehow they continue living. Our lives are so hard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You sound like Hillary Clinton with all your "What difference does it make?" talk
The point is we were sold "Grade A" lowers not Chainsaws. Yeah I like my rifles to look pretty and have a cool rollmark, so what? I also like my tools to look pretty as well. The marks they end up with after use should happen as a result of my doing, not the manufacturer. Why is this concept so hard for some people to grasp? Oh I get it. You are upset. You have been greatly wronged and you want justice. Either return it or cry about it on the internet.... You haven't read the thread then. Folks have called and Noveske is pretty much telling them tough shit... for now. And somehow they continue living. Our lives are so hard. I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I believe Noveskes are way overpriced and would never get one, chainsaw or not. Fact still remains that it's bad business practice regardless of the product or clientele. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:29:38 AM EDT
[#20]
I never could see spending $250 for a $50 lower. I don't see that the expensive one provides the extra value.
That said, I would be upset if I spent that kind of money for a lower and it looked like those. I hope the customers get what they want and Noveske gets the proper process in place to stop this. Noveske seems to make very good products from what I hear, although I have not used them. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:36:55 AM EDT
[#21]
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If they had paid $50 for them, sure. But these are $250 lowers. They'd better come with a blowjob Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:37:10 AM EDT
[#22]
DT.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:39:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I believe Noveskes are way overpriced and would never get one, chainsaw or not. Fact still remains that it's bad business practice regardless of the product or clientele. Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't have a dog in this fight, because I believe Noveskes are way overpriced and would never get one, chainsaw or not. Fact still remains that it's bad business practice regardless of the product or clientele. LaRue will swap out a part if you say it smells funny or looked at you wrong.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:40:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:40:30 AM EDT
[#25]
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There are some pretty bashed up lowers in that thread. Personally I would not care but whatever, I can understand why someone paying a bunch of money is pissed. I thought the chainsaw lower deal was pretty clever, but I guess they really opened themselves up to people expecting the full price lowers to be flawless. A lot of that looks no different than some of the bashed up stuff that Colt sends out the door. Nail hammer. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:40:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:40:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? They are being sold as non-chainsaw lowers.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:41:11 AM EDT
[#28]
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pics of stripped lower ? (please dont kill me) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any plain jane, PSA or Anderson lower, I wouldn't even bat an eye at those marks. Paid a premium for a Noveske? Yeah, I'd be a bit upset. There's nothing wrong with plain jane lower. I have one and it's never failed me.
pics of stripped lower ? (please dont kill me) 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:44:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would you order a brand new high end car from a dealership, and then when it's been delivered see a nice scratch along the side just shrug and be fine with it? You know since it's only cosmetic and functions fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. They paid MUCH more to get a perfect lower. Sell them for $50 and you have a point. Check the price paid. Would you order a brand new high end car from a dealership, and then when it's been delivered see a nice scratch along the side just shrug and be fine with it? You know since it's only cosmetic and functions fine. When people pay money for a premium product they deserve one. No excuses. My truck blue books at $ 13k. If you were going to buy it would you pay me $ 13k if the passenger door had a big dent in it where someone kicked the door? It hauls the same amount of weight, goes just as fast, and no one is buying a truck for use as a limo so a cosmetic blemish is meaningless from a practical standpoint |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:50:11 AM EDT
[#30]
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Not Chainsaw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Ok so now I'm confused. Are these or aren't these Chainsaw lowers? I thought they're a round of blems, are they not? Or have I been misreading this whole time and these are in fact the 'regular' lowers which are to be free of defects? Ok yea, I'd be a little ornery too. Up until now I thought it was a bunch of crying about getting too blemished, blemished lowers. It seems like someone made an executive decision and said, "This is stupid. We shouldn't be selling these things at a discount just because there's a small flaw. Sell them as regular." Has anyone with those offset TD pin holes had any issues with their TD pins not seating fully into the recess? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:55:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok yea, I'd be a little ornery too. Up until now I thought it was a bunch of crying about getting too blemished, blemished lowers. It seems like someone made an executive decision and said, "This is stupid. We shouldn't be selling these things at a discount just because there's a small flaw. Sell them as regular." Has anyone with those offset TD pin holes had any issues with their TD pins not seating fully into the recess? Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok yea, I'd be a little ornery too. Up until now I thought it was a bunch of crying about getting too blemished, blemished lowers. It seems like someone made an executive decision and said, "This is stupid. We shouldn't be selling these things at a discount just because there's a small flaw. Sell them as regular." Has anyone with those offset TD pin holes had any issues with their TD pins not seating fully into the recess?  |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:55:45 AM EDT
[#32]
I can sort-of see some things in the close ups...but seriously?
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Posted: 4/9/2014 8:56:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary.
If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:00:04 AM EDT
[#34]
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Word..you should see how shitty some of the Colts look now a days..I am at the point I dont send them back anymore..its not worth the headache. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What makes them $250? I was always under the impression that a lower is a lower. I've always bought the cheapest in-spec lowers I can find. Heck, I remember the days when all the holes just might NOT line up and there were only a couple of sources for parts. It sucked! Kids building AR's today have it made so they cry about dings and things that don't matter one bit and buy the cool logo of the day at inflated prices. It's simple - either cover the ding with a sharpie or return it and move on. Their ultra picky QC went out the window - we have seen this before. Word..you should see how shitty some of the Colts look now a days..I am at the point I dont send them back anymore..its not worth the headache. My Colt 6920 came with the standard "driveway" finish, but Colts are $900 full rifles. I could care less about that, it is essentially a beater..albeit a quality one. I would be very upset if I got what was supposed to be a boutique top shelf rifle that came looking like the pictures in here are showing. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:00:22 AM EDT
[#35]
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Seems weird that Noveske is now Cerakoting their lowers instead of anodizing them. I'm sure they are anodizing them first. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:01:51 AM EDT
[#36]
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Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary.
If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. You realize these arent blem lowers right? Non-chainsaw 
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:02:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary. If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. Not blems... for like the 13th time in the thread.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:02:20 AM EDT
[#38]
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Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary.
If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. The thread isn't in reference to people purchasing blemished lowers and then being upset. It's in reference to people purchasing lowers that were advertised as NON-Blemished but received lesser than A1 quality parts. First it was in reference to the change in color where as the Gen 2 lowers wouldn't match any other Noveske or Vltor products. Then, more and more people began receiving these same "GRADE A" lowers with more and more cosmetic blems. And "The greatest Gun manufacturer in the world" is just shrugging off the issue. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:02:41 AM EDT
[#39]
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Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary.
If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. You need to learn to read. These are sold as non blem, but premium lowers. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:03:27 AM EDT
[#40]
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I never would have found those flaws.  Me either.... |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:05:35 AM EDT
[#41]
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Poor analogy. The quality of gas affects performance. Having a small cosmetic defect has no effect on the performance of the weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There is nothing wrong with those lowers besides minor cosmetic imperfections. Kids these days. Which is not what the people were sold. If you're sold a blem (ie, a lower with minor cosmetic imperfections), then you don't have much room to be upset. If you're sold a lower that isn't advertised as a blem, then yeah you have a right to be upset. Your stance is similar to saying "well, I know you filled your car up out of the premium pump and got regular gas, but it's still gas. Nothing wrong with it, just lower octane." Poor analogy. The quality of gas affects performance. Having a small cosmetic defect has no effect on the performance of the weapon. what you don't seem to understand is up until John died, nothing like this ever would have happened. I have chainsaw lowers that I seriously cannot see the cosmetic flaw in. Noveske never sold anything that wasn't absolutely perfect as a non-chainsaw. Now they are acting like a completely different operation. I'd be pissed. I'm also glad I bought my Noveske stuff before he died and a clerk got put in charge of the company. It fucking sucks. They used to make some of the nicest stuff on the market. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:06:11 AM EDT
[#42]
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There's nothing wrong with plain jane lower. I have one and it's never failed me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any plain jane, PSA or Anderson lower, I wouldn't even bat an eye at those marks. Paid a premium for a Noveske? Yeah, I'd be a bit upset. There's nothing wrong with plain jane lower. I have one and it's never failed me. What do yousay we trry out my lower parts kit in your plain jane lower  e
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:06:25 AM EDT
[#43]
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I'm sure they are anodizing them first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seems weird that Noveske is now Cerakoting their lowers instead of anodizing them. I'm sure they are anodizing them first. I wouldn't be if they are putting that out at $250 claiming they're not blems.
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:06:59 AM EDT
[#44]
One and only complete recent Noveske rifle we ever had in stock the dust cover would not open or close without massive force
I understatement its a tool comments but really if a person is paying extra for a premium brand stuff like that is unacceptable but hey they look better than Colt |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:07:43 AM EDT
[#45]
I will give someone $87 for their noveske lower
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:09:17 AM EDT
[#46]
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Me either.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I never would have found those flaws. Me either.... Off center holes and gouges? I can see the missing the tiny specs, that would be silly to get angry over but some of the other stuff posted is very apparent. Especially since they aren't being sold as Chainsaws. Honestly I wouldn't even care about that it they were a little more proactive about taking care of those that got past their inspection and took care of the customers. It certainly doesn't sound like that is happening. |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:10:04 AM EDT
[#47]
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Reading comprehension fail. Not blems... for like the 13th time in the thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary.
If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. Not blems... for like the 13th time in the thread. Oh, I thought you said 'Gen II chainsaw lowers' in your OP. My brain seems to have skipped over the 'non' part. I also thought Chainsaw lowers were marketed as blemished lowers? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:10:34 AM EDT
[#48]
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One and only complete recent Noveske rifle we ever had in stock the dust cover would not open or close without massive force
I understatement its a tool comments but really if a person is paying extra for a premium brand stuff like that is unacceptable but hey they (used to) look better than Colt
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:12:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I thought you said 'Gen II chainsaw lowers' in your OP. My brain seems to have skipped over the 'non' part. I also thought Chainsaw lowers were marketed as blemished lowers? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Apparently some people need to look up the word 'blemish' in the dictionary. If I bought a blem lower, I'd expect it to have a couple of forging pits, or machining marks that would otherwise not pass normal QC. My father bought a blem Aero Precision lower that didn't show any signs of being blemished. That was, until I tried to mate the upper and lower together... First takedown pin at the mag well goes in fine. Second takedown pin by the buffer tube tower absolutely would not go more than halfway through. Was a fast fix with a rat-tail file, though. Not blems... for like the 13th time in the thread. Oh, I thought you said 'Gen II chainsaw lowers' in your OP. My brain seems to have skipped over the 'non' part. I also thought Chainsaw lowers were marketed as blemished lowers? |
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Posted: 4/9/2014 9:17:36 AM EDT
[#50]
I never understood the Noveske craze. I have nothing against them personally, but they just don't offer products that interest me. And what they do offer is crazy expensive. I would like to support them because they are a local business near me, but I have to go with Bravo Company to get what I want.
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