User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:19:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks like plenty of erosion near the main spillway end of the E-spillway too. I'm not sure how they didn't see that coming. You pour water down a hill and everything but the bedrock will eventually disappear.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:21:09 PM EDT
[#2]
fyi, based upon my crude and rudimentary calculations, inflow appears to be around 39k averaged for the last 8 hours.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:21:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And probably old... Spares will be such fun to source... They make them. We had to truck ours from Portland, OR to York, PA. Truck had to take the longest most indirect route for permitting and clearances... Then spent time there being machined. ACOE sent "top men" out to accept the work, they accepted it. Trucked the shaft back, and it was wrong.... *whoops* |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:22:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago
First time I have seen maine spillway designed to handle over 300k, I think they were blowing smoke at the Enviro groups. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:23:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryHard to tell if the erosion is going further north up the spillway. Wider is actually better, as it means the water has spread out and is not as deep. Deep running water is fast and will erode at a fast pace. Shallow but wide running water does not erode as fast. This is the $64,000 question. At least it seems that way to me. I'm no hydrologist, but it seems like if the main spillway erodes to the gatehouse, the gates have to be closed. Then the water comes over the weir at the emergency spillway. If any part of the emergency spillway weir goes, it all goes. After that the gatehouse goes. After that, the damn goes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:23:54 PM EDT
[#6]
The Oroville power plant:
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:24:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Oroville power plant: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Hyatt-people-145908.jpg It looks very clean. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:25:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Dam...not damn
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks very clean. Maybe it still is (or was before this). that picture looks to be late 1970s to mid-1980s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:26:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's erosion mitigation you are seeing that was completed the day before the E spillway was used. They dumped rocks and then covered the rocks with concrete. pretty sure they're referring directly above the previously green and red circled areas. You keep referring to the right of the ES, where the one man was blasting the boulders and concrete before the ES was used |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:26:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dam...not damn Or both... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:26:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the $64,000 question. At least it seems that way to me. I'm no hydrologist, but it seems like if the main spillway erodes to the gatehouse, the gates have to be closed. Then the water comes over the weir at the emergency spillway. If any part of the emergency spillway weir goes, it all goes. After that the gatehouse goes. After that, the damn goes. depends on where bedrock height is between gatehouse and main dam. If espillway fails in en mass, water may rush around to the damn toe... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:27:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Oroville power plant: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/Hyatt-people-145908.jpg There you go. Those things are 4+ stories deep. YUUUGE |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:29:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Lester Snow, who was the state Department of Water Resources director from 2004 to 2010, said Sunday night that he does not recall the specifics of the debate during the relicensing process 11 years ago.
“The dam and the outlet structures have always done well in tests and inspections,” Snow said. “I don’t recall the FERC process.” Of course he doesn't remember!!!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:30:10 PM EDT
[#15]
They aren't creating any wiggle room until they get down to about 880 feet.
Created this profile from the past week of data they've published, do we all know the link between storage in Acre Feet for any elevation right now and in the future: 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:30:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem isn't what's going on today. The problem is going to be next week when 200,000 ft.³ per second comes in and goes right out. The lake has had 300,000 come in before... Nobody has a clue what's going to happen. One thing is for absolute sure is it's going to get much worse. They can't empty the lake from the bottom they can only go to the bottom of the spillway gates Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The DWR rep last night said they were detecting no head cut at 100k flow rate. I'm hoping that continues to be the case. The problem isn't what's going on today. The problem is going to be next week when 200,000 ft.³ per second comes in and goes right out. The lake has had 300,000 come in before... Nobody has a clue what's going to happen. One thing is for absolute sure is it's going to get much worse. They can't empty the lake from the bottom they can only go to the bottom of the spillway gates From the elevation stats at 100k cfs out and zero inflow they can pull the lake about 4.5 inches per hour or 9 feet in a day. That should speed up as the level drops but that won't be a significant change by Wednesday. Not sure what time the storms will hit but at most they can drop will be about 18 feet. The water level at 2pm last Tuesday was at 856 feet. If the storm on Wednesday dumps a ton of rain they are screwed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:30:27 PM EDT
[#17]
current water level 896.93
E spillway is at 901 feet. If the diagrams posted earlier in the thread are right... the Main spillway intake is at 811 feet. No inflow numbers from the past several hours. Outflow through the Main Spillway seems to have remained steady at 100,000 cfs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:31:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Even if they could wave a magic wand and make the turbine wheels disappear, would the turbine water works be able to handle that kind of flow? I bet there would be massive cavitation damage that could threaten the entire dam, and the flow control gates they would need to stop the flow would likely be the first thing destroyed by it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:32:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Picture I took during a visit to Glen Canyon. The generators were (IIRC) 37 feet tall and when they pulled them for maintenance, they were out for months. They also stayed in the power plant for maintenance as there was really no way to easily get them out of the building.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:33:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
current water level 896.93 E spillway is at 901 feet. If the diagrams posted earlier in the thread are right... the Main spillway intake is at 811 feet. No inflow numbers from the past several hours. Outflow through the Main Spillway seems to have remained steady at 100,000 cfs. My rough calculations indicate inflow of about 39,000 cfs averaged for the past 8 hours. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:33:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago First time I have seen maine spillway designed to handle over 300k, I think they were blowing smoke at the Enviro groups. So... Bush's fault? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:33:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They make them. We had to truck ours from Portland, OR to York, PA. Truck had to take the longest most indirect route for permitting and clearances... Then spent time there being machined. ACOE sent "top men" out to accept the work, they accepted it. Trucked the shaft back, and it was wrong.... *whoops* That's what you get for mixing ft and in with decimal ft... Shoulda just gone metric... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:33:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like plenty of erosion near the main spillway end of the E-spillway too. I'm not sure how they didn't see that coming. You pour water down a hill and everything but the bedrock will eventually disappear. I'm about 20 pages behind now, but are we actually sure the erosion is threatening the e-spillway at all? It seems to me last night the engineers told the sheriff they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't and they proceeded on that basis, but that section of the weir could be perfectly sound, and it's likely pretty simple to stop that erosion. Now the water isn't flowing they can pump concrete in there. Seems like everyone is assuming the engineers who designed the dam screwed up. They did know massive erosion was going to happen, that's why they evac'd the millions of hatchery salmon that would have been killed by the turbidity. People are criticizing that too. Sometimes I really don't understand the way people respond to things, so far it seems like everyone has done their jobs since the initial pothole formed. Only fuckup I see is they missed the void forming under the spillway in the first place, that repair looked half-assed and they probably should have pulled and repoured that whole section during the drought. That decision probably came from higher up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:34:54 PM EDT
[#24]
The weather folks are predicting/hoping the next storm system that is coming in on Wed/Thurs will end up as snow in the upper elevations. If it is a "warm" storm and then that area can expect 4-5 inches of rain in that region and the Feather river. You don't have to be a scientist to figure out where that water will go....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:38:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rubbing his hands together pleased to punish the conservative voters of northern California Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Where is Moonbeam? Rubbing his hands together pleased to punish the conservative voters of northern California What other Gov would not be on tv telling folks what's going on. From what I know local county governments Are stepstepping in and sending help without the states help |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:38:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
current water level 896.93 E spillway is at 901 feet. If the diagrams posted earlier in the thread are right... the Main spillway intake is at 811 feet. No inflow numbers from the past several hours. Outflow through the Main Spillway seems to have remained steady at 100,000 cfs. Net Flow: (ie. inflow - outflow) =191240 x Elev change per hour (in feet) |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:39:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think without any load on the turbines, flowing massive amounts of water through them would probably spin them up to 87x over design rpm and destroy them. Gotta have the grid hooked up and the load on the generators for them to operate correctly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I still don't understand why the turbines couldn't just spin and let water through. Hell if thats true, I sure don't understand why they didn't put some non turbine outlets down there for emergency like this to release water. They can actually control the speed by changing the pitch on the turbine impellers, but they need power and quite allot to keep them set, a friend of mine took me down into Wells Dam when they were upgrading them. They can use the backup generators for a time but they are basically to run the gates, it takes quite a bit of power to run a control room no power generation creates a whole slew of new problems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:42:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Any pics / video from today?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:42:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even if they could wave a magic wand and make the turbine wheels disappear, would the turbine water works be able to handle that kind of flow? I bet there would be massive cavitation damage that could threaten the entire dam, and the flow control gates they would need to stop the flow would likely be the first thing destroyed by it. The power plant is not in the dam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:43:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another comparison of last night (water running over the e-spill) This morning |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:44:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need a pump to pump the water. Just some big ass pipes to build a siphon and a pump to prime it. You could run a few six foot concrete sewer pipes up and over the parking lot and around the edge of the weir and down the slope past the damaged area. Given enough time, you could run the pipes all the way down to the river and around the transmission towers. OK, maybe thats a bit optimistic but here's a calculator I found with gravity flow rates for concrete pipes. With the right size pipe and the right lengths you can get some amazing flow rates. I just don't know what numbers are realistic. http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g Poly pipe and lots of it. temporary plug one end float it out on lake while building it for length needed. pull p[ipe back out leave 220' to add weight to and remove plug for siphon http://www.isco-pipe.com/workspace//uploads/images/reed-creek-install_web-1402430495.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:44:06 PM EDT
[#32]
At least we have a few low-res photos to look at today.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:44:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem isn't what's going on today. The problem is going to be next week when 200,000 ft.³ per second comes in and goes right out. The lake has had 300,000 come in before... Nobody has a clue what's going to happen. One thing is for absolute sure is it's going to get much worse. They can't empty the lake from the bottom they can only go to the bottom of the spillway gates Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The DWR rep last night said they were detecting no head cut at 100k flow rate. I'm hoping that continues to be the case. The problem isn't what's going on today. The problem is going to be next week when 200,000 ft.³ per second comes in and goes right out. The lake has had 300,000 come in before... Nobody has a clue what's going to happen. One thing is for absolute sure is it's going to get much worse. They can't empty the lake from the bottom they can only go to the bottom of the spillway gates All that stuff is probably junk by now anyway, with the amount of water that has back flooded in there. Whatever it takes to get that 12,000 cfs running again - its the only drain available, IIRC, once the level gets below the main spillway gates. Maybe its not enough flow, but run long enough, the level drop might make enough room for the next inflow. Just a thought. 'cause the damage created by overflow of the weir by only that same 12,000 cfs will cause failure of it. And that would be BAD. Much worse than losing the powerhouse, which is junk anyway. IMHO YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:46:14 PM EDT
[#34]
This story is getting picked up by the MSM finally. Libtards are blaming global warming. Is this dam/lake seeing record inflow of water right now or is the damaged spillway the only thing causing this disaster?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:46:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The power plant is not in the dam. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Even if they could wave a magic wand and make the turbine wheels disappear, would the turbine water works be able to handle that kind of flow? I bet there would be massive cavitation damage that could threaten the entire dam, and the flow control gates they would need to stop the flow would likely be the first thing destroyed by it. The power plant is not in the dam. The water runs through the base of the dam. If the turbine inlet and outlet passages can't handle the flow resulting from 700' of head without the restriction of a turbine wheel, the dam could be undermined. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:46:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I predict you won't see any more water going over the emergency spillway. They are going to have to just use the main spillway and dump however much water it takes to keep the level below the emergency spillway level and worry about the damage to the main spillway later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Respectfully, I don't think the main dam will fail, but if the water gets too high over the emergency spillway, that could easily fail. I just saw the current live helicopter video, even with the 100k flow rate, it doesn't appear that the spillway has eroded upstream at all overnight. That's a great sign. I predict you won't see any more water going over the emergency spillway. They are going to have to just use the main spillway and dump however much water it takes to keep the level below the emergency spillway level and worry about the damage to the main spillway later. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:48:11 PM EDT
[#37]
You know, I wonder just how well the gravity syphon idea might work. I mean - if you hauled it some pipeline sized tubes; set it over the dam with the exit down by the dam's release point; closed the end of the pipeline & filled it with water - then opened the closure - I wonder if it would gravity syphon the lake out & just how much that might help. Surely it would help keep the spillway runoff (debris) from backing up into the dam's power works.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:48:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm told there will be an avatar with the cool aid man and the dam? I'm totally stoked about this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:49:35 PM EDT
[#39]
So the grey-ish area under the blue circle is where they put the boulders and poured concrete in preparation of using the e-spillway, not sure what day that was but was somewhat recent.
They were trying to let the water "softly" cascade downhill and run over the road. Unfortunately, the runoff cause pretty signification erosion to where the road used to be. Under the red circle, there is a pretty deep channel that was going under the packed material for the road. I'm now thinking, since they are inspecting that area the closest, they are worried about the entire are to the right bottom corner of the red circle eroding away and eventually eroding to the primary spillway, much closer to the gates than where the current damage/hole is. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:50:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Net Flow: (ie. inflow - outflow) =191240 x Elev change per hour (in feet) current numbers Outflow 99343 Inflow unknown Riv Rel 117037 If Riv Rel is the flow rate of the river after the spillways enter... then 117037 - 99343 should equal inflow at 17,694 If the E spillway isn't flowing. If the E spillway were flowing ... we don't get any numbers for that... but (inflow + outflow - riv rel) should equal the flow over the E spillway. So if they don't give us inflow and the E spillway isn't flowing... we can calculate it. If the don't give us inflow and the E spillway is flowing... then inflow and the E spillway flow both can't be calculated. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:50:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The power plant is not in the dam. WAT.gif |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:50:35 PM EDT
[#42]
As for MSM and blaming Global warming:
Its just the damaged spillway and the Cal Water Authorities decision to stop spillway flow to inspect the damage right when inflows were rising dramatically. With a good spillway, they could have managed the balance between relieving high incoming flows from the heavy rain and snowmelt against Flooding the Oroville area. Global warming as a cause is just fake news as relates to this incident. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm about 20 pages behind now, but are we actually sure the erosion is threatening the e-spillway at all? It seems to me last night the engineers told the sheriff they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't and they proceeded on that basis, but that section of the weir could be perfectly sound, and it's likely pretty simple to stop that erosion. Now the water isn't flowing they can pump concrete in there. Seems like everyone is assuming the engineers who designed the dam screwed up. They did know massive erosion was going to happen, that's why they evac'd the millions of hatchery salmon that would have been killed by the turbidity. People are criticizing that too. Sometimes I really don't understand the way people respond to things, so far it seems like everyone has done their jobs since the initial pothole formed. Only fuckup I see is they missed the void forming under the spillway in the first place, that repair looked half-assed and they probably should have pulled and repoured that whole section during the drought. That decision probably came from higher up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like plenty of erosion near the main spillway end of the E-spillway too. I'm not sure how they didn't see that coming. You pour water down a hill and everything but the bedrock will eventually disappear. I'm about 20 pages behind now, but are we actually sure the erosion is threatening the e-spillway at all? It seems to me last night the engineers told the sheriff they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't and they proceeded on that basis, but that section of the weir could be perfectly sound, and it's likely pretty simple to stop that erosion. Now the water isn't flowing they can pump concrete in there. Seems like everyone is assuming the engineers who designed the dam screwed up. They did know massive erosion was going to happen, that's why they evac'd the millions of hatchery salmon that would have been killed by the turbidity. People are criticizing that too. Sometimes I really don't understand the way people respond to things, so far it seems like everyone has done their jobs since the initial pothole formed. Only fuckup I see is they missed the void forming under the spillway in the first place, that repair looked half-assed and they probably should have pulled and repoured that whole section during the drought. That decision probably came from higher up. Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:55:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. At the press conference last night, it was the Sheriff who issued the evacuation order. The engineers told him that they noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway, but didn't have a solid timeframe for when it would eventually reach the e-spillway. The engineers told him it could be as soon as 60 minutes but they didn't know for sure. The Sheriff issued the evacuation order based on the worst case scenario. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:55:15 PM EDT
[#45]
disregard, answered above 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:56:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but who issued the evac order? The dam managers? The sheriff at the request of the dam managers? or the sheriff despite the dam managers saying it's OK? The Sheriff issued the order based on data from those at the dam who noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 2:00:09 PM EDT
[#47]
heres a little snowpack update from upper elevation Sierra Nevada mountains
yesterday around noon I took the snowmobile up behind my house to do some shooting and the highest I got was around 8K feet we had such extreme rain up that high that the entire snowpack from top to bottom is in a Corn state, those of you who ski know what I am talking about walking around I was sinking in up to my crotch and im 6,3 tall our freezing nights are only effecting the top few inches of the snowpack, the lower portion all the way to the ground is loose frozen with about a foot of snow on top the dirt it self is not frozen at those elevations from the water water, friends of mine at a local ski resort just the other day had to do repair on some snowmaking water lines at roughly the same elevation and said normally they are chipping through 2 feet of frozen dirt and there was no frozen dirt at all and ground is totally saturated there is a capillary you have probably noticed at ski resorts in spring where dirt is sitting on top of the snowpack, dirt actually floats through saturated spring corn from the ground to the top of the snow that effect could be seen last week all the way up past 8K feet in elevation to sum this all up, the snow pack currently has no ability to retain or soak up water right now, Snow it self has that ability but the corn snow we currently have top to bottom of the snowpack cannot retain any water and is already melting at a rapid rate non usually seen in February if we get another warm storm this is going to create a rapid influx of water down stream in the entire sierra Nevada, normal snow levels this time of year being around 5-6K we end up raining up to 8-9 again and the influx of water into this dam for instance would be at least what it was a few days ago if not even more |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 2:00:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This story is getting picked up by the MSM finally. Libtards are blaming global warming. Is this dam/lake seeing record inflow of water right now or is the damaged spillway the only thing causing this disaster? They are blaming it on the warm weather causing the snow melt to happen earlier this year. Ok, what does earlier have to do with anything, it is still the same volume whether it melted this week or in 2 weeks. The inflow is not a record, it was 130,000 cfs and someone here said they have had 300,000 cfs before. The spillway was running at 70,000 cfs on Tuesday before they shut it down. That allowed the water to rise rapidly and then when they opened it back up it was just a trickle, 35,000 cfs I believe. A 100,000 cfs inflow or outflow produces a 9 foot elevation change in one day. The lake was somewhere around 860 on Tuesday. Four days later it crested 900. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 2:00:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woah! wtf! The news is talking about privately own Blackhawk Helicopters! I had no idea that was allowed! I want!!!! The Sikorsky S-70 is the civilian version of the UH-60. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 2:00:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. in this post couple pages back has the best guess I have seen so far. Quoted:
Yep looks like the green part is gone. 
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/68285/oroville-espill-erosion-monday2-145860.JPG And what is this nonsense about noon flow rates? Were you watching the OPs live stream on the ground during that time like the rest of us? The Dam increased flow at about 3. and the evac was issued at about 4. and the level of the lake didn't drop below the E spillway until many hours later at 9. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
