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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:01:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the flow rate through the power house, IF all the generators were running? zero |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:02:01 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:03:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I... don't know what you're trying to tell me here. current numbers Outflow 99343 Inflow unknown Riv Rel 117037 If Riv Rel is the flow rate of the river after the spillways enter... then 117037 - 99343 should equal inflow at 17,694 If the E spillway isn't flowing. If the E spillway were flowing ... we don't get any numbers for that... but (inflow + outflow - riv rel) should equal the flow over the E spillway. So if they don't give us inflow and the E spillway isn't flowing... we can calculate it. If the don't give us inflow and the E spillway is flowing... then inflow and the E spillway flow both can't be calculated. Latest data - Elevation 897.22 dropped to 896.93. change in elevation = 0.29' 0.29*191240 = 55,460 = net flow. Outflow = 99343, 99343-55460 = 43883. = to the missing inflow number. (approx) 'They' have better surface acre number than the generic no. I used |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:04:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Engineers CYA = all is ok
Sheriff CYA = evac |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:04:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At the press conference last night, it was the Sheriff who issued the evacuation order. The engineers told him that they noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway, but didn't have a solid timeframe for when it would eventually reach the e-spillway. The engineers told him it could be as soon as 60 minutes but they didn't know for sure. The Sheriff issued the evacuation order based on the worst case scenario. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. At the press conference last night, it was the Sheriff who issued the evacuation order. The engineers told him that they noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway, but didn't have a solid timeframe for when it would eventually reach the e-spillway. The engineers told him it could be as soon as 60 minutes but they didn't know for sure. The Sheriff issued the evacuation order based on the worst case scenario. Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:06:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This story is getting picked up by the MSM finally. Libtards are blaming global warming. Is this dam/lake seeing record inflow of water right now or is the damaged spillway the only thing causing this disaster?  sob It was global warming ...
Of course there's going to be spin. They will be desperate to spin. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:06:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, where are you going to get the diameter to flow an appreciable amount without it collapsing in on itself?  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:06:53 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:07:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. At the press conference last night, it was the Sheriff who issued the evacuation order. The engineers told him that they noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway, but didn't have a solid timeframe for when it would eventually reach the e-spillway. The engineers told him it could be as soon as 60 minutes but they didn't know for sure. The Sheriff issued the evacuation order based on the worst case scenario. Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:07:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Why the dam is not yet in danger is because they can release over double the current amount going through main spillway. The down stream infrastructure, levees and other dams can not handle that much flow. That is where the people they wanted to evac lived, downstream. So they didn't up the outflow to anything greater than the downstream infrastructure could handle.
The reason for the evacuation was they thought a massive release could happen if the e-spillway let go. Then they would no longer be able to control the amount of water being released. The Dam would stop being flood control and only a slow down for any new inflow into the system. Long way to go until the danger is over to downstream communities, get back to me in July when all inflow has stopped. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. Dude, i explained it to you last night. Downstream cannot handle that much water, plus the main evac route goes over the very river that connects to the dam. There were parts of orovile that were getting flooded, and the water was within a few feet of the bridgetop (from what i could tell from the chopper feeds). Doubling the outflow would have caused problems IN THE CITY. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:08:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that maybe they should look at options to open up the powerplant outlets, regardless of the damage to the turbines etc. All that stuff is probably junk by now anyway, with the amount of water that has back flooded in there. Whatever it takes to get that 12,000 cfs running again - its the only drain available, IIRC, once the level gets below the main spillway gates. Maybe its not enough flow, but run long enough, the level drop might make enough room for the next inflow. Just a thought. 'cause the damage created by overflow of the weir by only that same 12,000 cfs will cause failure of it. And that would be BAD. Much worse than losing the powerhouse, which is junk anyway. IMHO YMMV Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The DWR rep last night said they were detecting no head cut at 100k flow rate. I'm hoping that continues to be the case. The problem isn't what's going on today. The problem is going to be next week when 200,000 ft.³ per second comes in and goes right out. The lake has had 300,000 come in before... Nobody has a clue what's going to happen. One thing is for absolute sure is it's going to get much worse. They can't empty the lake from the bottom they can only go to the bottom of the spillway gates All that stuff is probably junk by now anyway, with the amount of water that has back flooded in there. Whatever it takes to get that 12,000 cfs running again - its the only drain available, IIRC, once the level gets below the main spillway gates. Maybe its not enough flow, but run long enough, the level drop might make enough room for the next inflow. Just a thought. 'cause the damage created by overflow of the weir by only that same 12,000 cfs will cause failure of it. And that would be BAD. Much worse than losing the powerhouse, which is junk anyway. IMHO YMMV I agree! Powerhouse be damned. They need do everything they can to save the entire structure plus the cities below it. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:08:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Not really, where are you going to get the diameter to flow an appreciable amount without it collapsing in on itself? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2980/20140319014049881-145921.JPG Unless that window is 80 feet wide, LOL No. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:10:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. At the press conference last night, it was the Sheriff who issued the evacuation order. The engineers told him that they noticed erosion working towards the e-spillway, but didn't have a solid timeframe for when it would eventually reach the e-spillway. The engineers told him it could be as soon as 60 minutes but they didn't know for sure. The Sheriff issued the evacuation order based on the worst case scenario. Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:10:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the grey-ish area under the blue circle is where they put the boulders and poured concrete in preparation of using the e-spillway, not sure what day that was but was somewhat recent. They were trying to let the water "softly" cascade downhill and run over the road. Unfortunately, the runoff cause pretty signification erosion to where the road used to be. Under the red circle, there is a pretty deep channel that was going under the packed material for the road. I'm now thinking, since they are inspecting that area the closest, they are worried about the entire are to the right bottom corner of the red circle eroding away and eventually eroding to the primary spillway, much closer to the gates than where the current damage/hole is. That makes sense to me. The right side of the emergency spillway looks like it has the potential to tear the primary spillway out right at the top -- bypass the nibbling up from the bottom and just ruin it directly. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:10:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see why they were shitting bricks now. I am guessing that the concrete shown under the eSpillway was straight at one time. Now it is sinking all over the place  Pretty sure it looked like that prior to ever even flowing water over the emergency spillway.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:10:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistorySmall people kind of puts it into perspective. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:11:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was it the sheriff that issued the 60 minute warning alerts? I thought that came from someone else. At least that is how the media was reporting it. The engineers told them more erosion that expected and they now expected failure in 60 minutes. Again if that was even remotely possible, then why didn't the open the spillway. The fact that they didn't open the spillway more tells me they weren't concerned about imminent failure. The Cali DWR Tweeted out the 60 minute warning and opened the main spillway up to 100k. 3 hours before they had Tweeted that the situation had stabilized. Somebody in that organization saw something in those three hours that scared the bejesus out of them. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Latest data - Elevation 897.22 dropped to 896.93. change in elevation = 0.29' 0.29*191240 = 55,460 = net flow. Outflow = 99343, 99343-55460 = 43883. = to the missing inflow number. (approx) 'They' have better surface acre number than the generic no. I used |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:12:17 PM EDT
[#20]
powerhouse failure could cause again uncontrolled release threaten downstream communities and possibly the dam itself.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:12:28 PM EDT
[#21]
local news saying Lake Shasta is 96% full too....wow.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:13:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With heavy equipment, but not until the flow through the primary spillway is drastically reduced. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:13:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are blaming it on the warm weather causing the snow melt to happen earlier this year. Ok, what does earlier have to do with anything, it is still the same volume whether it melted this week or in 2 weeks. The inflow is not a record, it was 130,000 cfs and someone here said they have had 300,000 cfs before. The spillway was running at 70,000 cfs on Tuesday before they shut it down. That allowed the water to rise rapidly and then when they opened it back up it was just a trickle, 35,000 cfs I believe. A 100,000 cfs inflow or outflow produces a 9 foot elevation change in one day. The lake was somewhere around 860 on Tuesday. Four days later it crested 900. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This story is getting picked up by the MSM finally. Libtards are blaming global warming. Is this dam/lake seeing record inflow of water right now or is the damaged spillway the only thing causing this disaster? They are blaming it on the warm weather causing the snow melt to happen earlier this year. Ok, what does earlier have to do with anything, it is still the same volume whether it melted this week or in 2 weeks. The inflow is not a record, it was 130,000 cfs and someone here said they have had 300,000 cfs before. The spillway was running at 70,000 cfs on Tuesday before they shut it down. That allowed the water to rise rapidly and then when they opened it back up it was just a trickle, 35,000 cfs I believe. A 100,000 cfs inflow or outflow produces a 9 foot elevation change in one day. The lake was somewhere around 860 on Tuesday. Four days later it crested 900. Excellent summary. Thank you. Does anyone have the data showing that this dam has seen 300k cfs inflow in the past? |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:14:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Looks like plenty of erosion near the main spillway end of the E-spillway too. I'm not sure how they didn't see that coming. You pour water down a hill and everything but the bedrock will eventually disappear. I'm about 20 pages behind now, but are we actually sure the erosion is threatening the e-spillway at all? It seems to me last night the engineers told the sheriff they couldn't guarantee it wouldn't and they proceeded on that basis, but that section of the weir could be perfectly sound, and it's likely pretty simple to stop that erosion. Now the water isn't flowing they can pump concrete in there. Seems like everyone is assuming the engineers who designed the dam screwed up. They did know massive erosion was going to happen, that's why they evac'd the millions of hatchery salmon that would have been killed by the turbidity. People are criticizing that too. Sometimes I really don't understand the way people respond to things, so far it seems like everyone has done their jobs since the initial pothole formed. Only fuckup I see is they missed the void forming under the spillway in the first place, that repair looked half-assed and they probably should have pulled and repoured that whole section during the drought. That decision probably came from higher up. Explain the warnings last night then "Catastrophic failure of the emergency spillway structure in 60 minutes" yet they continued to let out only 100,000 cfs when the spillway was designed to handle up to 250,000. They told us "everyone is fucked in 60 minutes" yet continued business as usual. Looking at the pictures of the emergency spillway this morning, where is the erosion that caused them to claim "everyone in town is gong to die in 60 minutes"? I don't blame the sheriff for evacuating people, even if it was based off a lie. Evacuating 180,000 people at 6pm is a lot easier than evacuating them at 2am. Better to be safe than sorry and do it while people are awake. But there is some level of bullshit going on here. They claimed massive erosion, issued the evac, and bumped up the spillway to 100,000 cfs. An hour later they said no major erosion. Four hours after the "you are all going to die" notice the water stopped coming over the emergency spillway. That means had they cranked the spill way up to 100,000 cfs around noon their time, the water would have stopped coming over the e-spillway before they ever issued the evac order. Something stinks here. I questioned it last night, I think they intentionally let the water go over the e-spillway because it was untested. They wanted to observe it and see what happened so they knew what to expect. The one engineer said last night that they didn't want to let too much water out because they wanted to preserve the infrastructure. Ok, so they issue the "you all are going to die in 60 minutes" evac order, hold the outflow of the spillway, and then talk about how they wanted to protect the infrastructure. That does not sound like "catastrophic failure in 60 minutes" conditions. I think ProfRyan will attest they opened up the spillway more when they said they did! He has the poopy pants to prove it! |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:15:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
local news saying Lake Shasta is 96% full too....wow. Major Reservoir Levels |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:15:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
local news saying Lake Shasta is 96% full too....wow. I can't help but laugh. What a fucking shit show. Containing this is going to be like trying to corral a bunch of greased up pigs by hand. Moonbeam is probably drinking himslef under the table. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#27]
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cool. I don't know where 191240 comes from so wouldn't have been able to come up with that myself. 15805 acres * 43,560 sf/acre = volume of water for a 1 ft elevation change of the reservoir. = 688,465,800 cf if it were to drain in 1 hour, = 688,465,800cf/3600 seconds = 191,240 CFS ETA: Inflow just about has to be a calculated number based on something similar to this (though probably with exact surface areas for a given elevation). There is no way to measure all water influx into the reservoir - underground springs for example would be unmeasurable. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:17:14 PM EDT
[#28]
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I can't help but laugh. What a fucking shit show. Containing this is going to be like trying to corral a bunch of greased up pigs by hand. Moonbeam is probably drinking himslef under the table. Fill them all up and wait for the biggest earthquake in modern times to happen. 
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:18:16 PM EDT
[#29]
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Small people kind of puts it into perspective. When I first look at that I thought the yellow things were marker cones Then I realized they were people and was like
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:20:42 PM EDT
[#30]
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So... Bush's fault? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago First time I have seen maine spillway designed to handle over 300k, I think they were blowing smoke at the Enviro groups. So... Bush's fault? Beat me to it... "Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside". |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:20:44 PM EDT
[#31]
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It should be Mr Hankey coming through the dam instead of the Cool Aid man.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm told there will be an avatar with the cool aid man and the dam? I'm totally stoked about this. Whatever you do, the them is not "poopie pants". I heard ProFyan make a non-hysterical comment about it being time to leave. The picture should reflect that cool, understated type response in my opinion. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:20:53 PM EDT
[#32]
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local news saying Lake Shasta is 96% full too....wow. Does Shasta drain to Oroville? |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:21:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Just pulled this off a video I found. (You should be able to click in a new screen to get the full size)
Look at the base of the espillway. You can see the weeps in the base, and under that... looks like boulders and dirt. Just like down the slope where its washed away so bad. It certainly does not appear to me that the concrete crest is toed into solid bedrock right there. IN fact it looks like there's even some undercutting below the lowest part of the concrete. Someone tell me I'm wrong. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:21:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I first look at that I thought the yellow things were marker cones Then I realized they were people and was like Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Small people kind of puts it into perspective. When I first look at that I thought the yellow things were marker cones Then I realized they were people and was like I thought they were those little marker flags utilities use. I thought "I guess they are marking the problem areas" They are people! Hory Shit! |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:23:25 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:24:46 PM EDT
[#36]
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Fill them all up and wait for the biggest earthquake in modern times to happen. Wrong area of cali to wish that upon. The Sac valley is pretty cool. Used to live in Suisun City, which is about an hour south of this mess. Napa valley (wine country) is right there too. All this water is going to make for some mediocre wines this year. I wonder how Lake Berryessa is doing. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:25:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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Does Shasta drain to Oroville? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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local news saying Lake Shasta is 96% full too....wow. Does Shasta drain to Oroville? No the Sacramento Rivers comes from it which the Feather (from Oroville) feeds into 
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:25:48 PM EDT
[#38]
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Beat me to it... "Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside". So the enviro weenies were right on this one.... Figures. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:26:34 PM EDT
[#39]
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Just pulled this off a video I found. (You should be able to click in a new screen to get the full size) http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/GonzoFrye/espill_zpsbqqflleu.png~original Look at the base of the espillway. You can see the weeps in the base, and under that... looks like boulders and dirt. Just like down the slope where its washed away so bad. It certainly does not appear to me that the concrete crest is toed into solid bedrock right there. IN fact it looks like there's even some undercutting below the lowest part of the concrete. Someone tell me I'm wrong. that's just a concrete water break to redirect the flow away towards the hillside. The e-spillway goes deeper into the ground than that (supposedly down to the bedrock) Attached File |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:26:40 PM EDT
[#40]
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Just pulled this off a video I found. (You should be able to click in a new screen to get the full size) http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq44/GonzoFrye/espill_zpsbqqflleu.png~original Look at the base of the espillway. You can see the weeps in the base, and under that... looks like boulders and dirt. Just like down the slope where its washed away so bad. It certainly does not appear to me that the concrete crest is toed into solid bedrock right there. IN fact it looks like there's even some undercutting below the lowest part of the concrete. Someone tell me I'm wrong. OK, you're wrong But I really have no idea
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:26:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote History
Is the erosion that was the concern. When they doubled flow through Main spillway the lake level started dropping pretty quickly. Faster than we'd seen it change up to that point. Every inch of lake elevation drop meant less water going over the Emergency spillway and slowed down the erosion headed toward it. We don't know how solid the ground under the spillway is... One would hope the engineers do... If it isn't solid Bedrock then rapid undermining and collapse is likely if that erosion pit reached it. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:27:18 PM EDT
[#42]
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No it doesn't and the street level view is at the opposite end. There has been some off and on discussion about water going around that end. We do not have the cut and fill drawings, the soil report, the construction drawings, etc. for that parking lot and overflow weir area. So we cannot state conclusively. Period. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:27:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beat me to it... "Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago First time I have seen maine spillway designed to handle over 300k, I think they were blowing smoke at the Enviro groups. So... Bush's fault? Beat me to it... "Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside". I don't think many of these groups that sue over dams really care about dam safety. Thier goal is to use the courts to make the dams too cost prohibitive to operate. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:27:40 PM EDT
[#44]
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Many of the airports I work at use box culvert that is massive. That calculator shows you could theoretically flow 40,000cfs through one. Wonder if its worth piecing together a few box culverts all the way down to the river and diverting water through them? It will take some time but they'll have to do something prior to the spring runoff.... I think the real problem is we are already dealing with extreme spring runoff levels of water and the lake is already full. Now add 176% of the normal snow cap in the Sierras plus just normal rains in March and April. It's like trying to push your waste water thru a filled septic holding tank and then everybody comes over to watch the Super Bowl and hits all three of your bathrooms at half time . . . no, there isn't enough capacity and it's going to get real ugly. We are at the point where you know the tank is already too full and gametime is Wednesday. How much you can you get out with a 5 gallon bucket before your buds come over in 36 hours? Don't forget nobody wants it coming down their driveway after you dump it in the ditch - but it will. Good luck with that. It's a big problem but the issues aren't that hard to grasp. There isn't any more room for the rain to collect, and more is coming for the next 10 weeks. And all you got is a 5 gallon bucket. So, they are using the 5 gallon bucket and doing what they can, but . . . |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:27:57 PM EDT
[#45]
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They are blaming it on the warm weather causing the snow melt to happen earlier this year. Ok, what does earlier have to do with anything, it is still the same volume whether it melted this week or in 2 weeks. The inflow is not a record, it was 130,000 cfs and someone here said they have had 300,000 cfs before. The spillway was running at 70,000 cfs on Tuesday before they shut it down. That allowed the water to rise rapidly and then when they opened it back up it was just a trickle, 35,000 cfs I believe. A 100,000 cfs inflow or outflow produces a 9 foot elevation change in one day. The lake was somewhere around 860 on Tuesday. Four days later it crested 900. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This story is getting picked up by the MSM finally. Libtards are blaming global warming. Is this dam/lake seeing record inflow of water right now or is the damaged spillway the only thing causing this disaster? They are blaming it on the warm weather causing the snow melt to happen earlier this year. Ok, what does earlier have to do with anything, it is still the same volume whether it melted this week or in 2 weeks. The inflow is not a record, it was 130,000 cfs and someone here said they have had 300,000 cfs before. The spillway was running at 70,000 cfs on Tuesday before they shut it down. That allowed the water to rise rapidly and then when they opened it back up it was just a trickle, 35,000 cfs I believe. A 100,000 cfs inflow or outflow produces a 9 foot elevation change in one day. The lake was somewhere around 860 on Tuesday. Four days later it crested 900. Global warming caused the drought, global warming caused the floods, global warming caused the hole I found in my sock this morning. Jesus, these asstards are like a broken record. One of the earliest things that man worked on was the storage and movement of water. Because they figured out that sometimes it rains, sometimes it doesn't. But yeah, it is all the fault of industry, cars and the very existence of the amount of people that we have. And only massive government involvement, taxation and redistribution of wealth will fix it. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:28:28 PM EDT
[#46]
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Whatever you do, the them is not "poopie pants". I heard ProFyan make a non-hysterical comment about it being time to leave. The picture should reflect that cool, understated type response in my opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm told there will be an avatar with the cool aid man and the dam? I'm totally stoked about this. Whatever you do, the them is not "poopie pants". I heard ProFyan make a non-hysterical comment about it being time to leave. The picture should reflect that cool, understated type response in my opinion.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:28:44 PM EDT
[#47]
“It is important to recognize that during a rare event with the emergency spillway flowing at its design capacity, spillway operations would not affect reservoir control or endanger the dam,” wrote John Onderdonk, a senior civil engineer with FERC, in the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s San Francisco Office, in a July 27, 2006, memo to his managers. “The emergency spillway meets FERC’s engineering guidelines for an emergency spillway,” he added. “The guidelines specify that during a rare flood event, it is acceptable for the emergency spillway to sustain significant damage.” Now they are calling it "Auxillary Spillway", while asking for federal money, after not having a FERC License. I REALLY hope the Trump Admin hold's Cali's feet to the fire on this as far as "emergency funds" go, just like the Obama admin did for all bridges in the US after the I-35 collapse from lack of maintenance. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:29:21 PM EDT
[#48]
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I dont understand why they dont use both lanes for evacuation. Works on the East Coast for Hurricanes, nobody ever had to do that in CA. NIH so not done. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:29:21 PM EDT
[#49]
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Wrong area of cali to wish that upon. The Sac valley is pretty cool. Used to live in Suisun City, which is about an hour south of this mess. Napa valley (wine country) is right there too. All this water is going to make for some mediocre wines this year. I wonder how Lake Berryessa is doing. I'm not wishing that upon anybody.... but the way CA manage things gives the perception that's what they're hoping for. I have a good friend that lives in Manteca, not a bad place as long as you stay away from the derp in SF. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 2:29:38 PM EDT
[#50]
ok, looking at the dry pictures they have two problem areas. both of those channels are problems, the point of the long wier is to have water move over a long face evenly and fairly slowly. When water concentrates you get velocity and when you get velocity you get scour, notice how polished the left channel in the shot with the inspectors is...
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