Here's a quick question.
When using a Trust, do you have to amend the Schedule A to say "whatever the NFA item is (pending approval)" before you send the paperwork to the ATF? Also, if you do have to, can you just pen it in, or does it have to be typed?

Double post *

If it's a Title I firearm already in your possession just put it in the Schedule A.  If its a Title II firearm in your dealer's possession, don't add it to the Schedule A until you get the approved Form 4 back.

Mailed my form 1 on Saturday, 19 Jan. Much thanks to this thread to get the paperwork complete (and hopefully accurate)

Time for my stupid question.  Many mentions have been made about attaching the trust to the form.  However, what exactly is meant by "attach"?  Does that mean staple?  Shall I staple all of the copies of the forms and documents into one gigantic bundle or into two bundles (one for each copy of the mess) or just staple, for each copy, all of the related documents to the associated form (Form 1 stapled to trust stapled to ... Form 5330.20 stabled to ... etc.)?

Thank you for the clarifications!

Don't staple anything together, just put all of it in the envelope.

I typically staple the trust since that could become mixed up pages.  The forms and trust I just use a paper clip to keep it organize.

I've finished all of my paperwork for going the Trust route on an SBR.  I will get it in the mail tomorrow!  Thank you again to those that contributed to this wonderful thread!

Quick question.  I have been researching creating a NFA firearms trust and would lie to make a full auto lower starting with an 80% casting.  When completing the form 1 section 4 B "Type of firearm to be made", what would be appropriate for this section??

Thanks in advance

Machine gun.  It won't get approved though.  The Hughes Amendment of 1986 closed the registry for machine guns, so no making new ones.  You can make a short barreled rifle from the 80% lower though.

So, things like lower's original manufacturer engraved info (name, location), serial #, etc. don't need to go into 4h?

No, that info goes in 4a, d, and g.  4h is for additional markings.  I put the importers info on the Form 1 for my Saiga.  The rest of mine I left 4h blank.  It seems some examiners want you to put the info from 3b in 4h as well.

If you are trying to build a SBR from a fully assembled AR-15 that came from the factory, then you would enter the original manufacturer info. If you are building a SBR from "Scratch" meaning you started out with a stripped lower receiver, then you would enter the name of your trust and a serial number that your create for your SBR.

That's incorrect.  Regardless if you started with a complete rifle or a stripped lower you started with a Title I firearm that has an original manufacturer.  That original manufacturer's name goes in block 4a, even says so right on the form.  4h is for any additional markings, i.e. importer's name/city/state or if your examiner requires it your info that's in block 3b that will be engraved on the weapon.  Now if you started with an 80% or less lower then you'd be the original manufacturer.

This stuff really isn't that difficult.  Stop over thinking it and making it more complicated than it really is.

Not making it difficult , just going by what my lawyer said. He created my NFA trust. Even mentions it on the NFA Lawyer Gun Trust blog, that you can put down your trust name as manufacturer.
Had ZERO problems having my trust approved.

Not trying to start anything, just mentioning some info that was told to me by my lawyer, who was there during the whole prosses.

when using "Form 1" to apply to make an SBR:

Why fill out the certification of compliance if a TRUST (non living entity) is the owner of the firearm?
You filled that information out when you legally purchased the complete firearm or firearm receiver in the first place...
no need to send it in twice.

Ok, I've read all 19 pages of this thread and I appreciate the fantastic information but I'm still a little foggy on one thing and I was hoping to nail down an answer:

I have a brand new complete Seekins lower that has never been a rifle and when my stamp comes back I'll attach a 10.5" complete upper.

In 4a do I put Seekins Precision or do I put my Trust name?

I've seen advice both ways on this.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Your info goes in 3b, Seekins goes in 4.  The only time you would be the original manufaturer and list your info in 4 is if you built the gun from scratch, say an 80% or less lower, a lower you machined from a block of aluminum, a silencer you built from tubing, etc.  Any time you convert an existing Title I firearm to Title II whoever made the Title I firearm will have their info listed in block 4.

Great, thanks Josh.

Thanks for this thread.  
Sent off two form 1s to sbr a AR lower and my ps90. Now the wait starts.

Note to all: on the Form 1, if you put anything other than what is written on the receiver i.e. AR-15, the form may be sent back for correction. On my LMT I put DEFENDER 2000 ; AR-15; they want it corrected to only DEFENDER 2000. Such garbage.

So to be clear on my 80% lower

I put my trust name  in 3b and 4

Yes.

does the engraving all need to be in the same location? could I put MICKEY MOUSE under the trigger guard "billet" and MAGIC KINGDOM FL on the front of the receiver ?

also on the Schedule A, can I put a sticky note attached claiming the TITLE 1 lower is in my possession or is this needed?

thanks, I read through all 19 pages and didnt find the answers to these questions..

Engravings have to be readily visible without disassembly and located on the receiver, barrel, or frame.  They can be split up if you'd like.  I've had two Form 1s go into problem status because I had the Title I firearm that I was converting to Title II listed on the Schedule A.  I now include a note when using a trust.

thanks JoshAston,

so I will just hand write a note explaining why the Title 1 lower is already on the Schedula A and it will be converted to a Title 2 firearm after the stamp is approved, and attach it to my trust

thanks for the info on the engravings also

I just sent my first form 1 in thanks to the information provided in this thread.

 

The ATF website is screwed up and my links to the Form 1 page just send me to the regular ATF webpage. I did finally find the PDF file for the form 1 but when I opened it up , it wasn't the correct page. Anybody got a better link? Disregard, after the 3rd attempt I finally got the correct page.

Hello,

I'm new to the forums and this is my first posting.

I'm trying to complete Form 1 using a gun trust, but I have four questions I can't seem to find the answer to or at least non-conflicting answers.  Please help if possible.

1)  In box 3d where you put your county in.  I live in an independent city not associated with any county.  In the past coming across a county question, the answer has been either leave blank, write not applicable, or repeat the city's name there.  What would be the appropriate answer in the case of the Form 1?

2)  It appears Schedule A needs to be included with the trust.  Do I show the title 1 rifle that I am asking permission to convert to an SBR as already being in the trust when I send the form in, or do I put the gun in Schedule A after I get the tax stamp back.  My thinking is that since Form 1 is being submitted by the trust, the gun should be already be listed as an asset, but I see conflicting answers in this regard, or if it even matters.

3)  At the beginning of this topic, the author discusses sending in a certified copy of the trust, that being a copy of the trust where the copy itself has been notarized.  I see conflicting responses as to whether or not it is necessary to get the copy notarized.  Is there a consensus on this?  

4)  Do I send in one or two copies of the trust?

thanks

1) I have no idea.

2) either way, something has to belong to the trust though.  If it's the same gun that's on the Form 1, include a note that it's currently a Title I firearm just to prevent any confusion.  I have had an issue with that in the past.  If you're submitting a Form 4, do not add the item to the Schedule A until you get your approved form back.

3) I've always used a regular copy and had no issues.  They don't need the actual trust, they just need to know that it's valid.  A notarized copy isn't going to show them that any better than a plain copy.

4) 1

2)  in the assetes i added item from the form 1 being submitted  there but where you add a date it enterd the trust i  labled it as PENDING

Two questions.
Using a trust, called "ABC Trust"
For box 7, I sign it as:
firstname middlename lastname, grantor     <-------Is that correct?  In my trust, I am the grantor, with my entire name listed, first middle and last

For box 8, since I am using a trust, do I PRINT that the same as box 7?  Firstname Middlename Lastname, grantor?

Section 7.
7. Signature of Applicant: Obviously, you wait until after you've printed the Form 1 before you can even sign it. Sign your name after you print it.

Section 8.
8. Name and Title of Authorized Official of Firm or Corporation: Put your full name that is found in the title of your Firearm Trust, followed by a comma and the word "Trustee" to designate your position within your Trust.

This might be a really stupid question, but how do I mail my forms? Do I need to put it all in a folder then in a large envelope or do I just paperclip it all together and put it in one of the USPS flat rate envelopes?

However you want.

i stuck them in a priority mail envolope  and papercliped the trust together , the form1's together  and check to that

I am going to be sending my paperwork off for my first stamp, I want to make sure I am doing this properly.

1.  I intend my SBR to have a 300 blackout upper, my lower currently is makred 5.56 mm.  What do I put in Block 4.c.?

2.  I am filing as a trust.  I undertand that I do not need complete blocks 12/13.  I do however need to complete a 5330-20, correct?

3. The title 1 firearm I am submitting should be on the included schedule A, correct?

Other than that I include 2 copies of double sided Form 1, 1 Copy of 5330-20, Copy of trust, schedule A, and $200 check payable to "the Department of Justice".  Paperclip it all together, and mail to National Fireams Act Branch, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 2454 Needy Road, Suite 1250, Martinsburg, WV 25405.  

Am I missing anything?

Working on my first Form 1 now. No real problems with filling in the blanks, just a (hopefully) simple question about the $200 check.

Up in section 1, it says:



(Wasn't aware there was a "the" in DOJ)


But on the Instructions page (section 2g) under Remittance it says:




So...for those of you who have been approved, was your check made out to DOJ or BATFE?

Thanks.
Greg

my check was cashed in Feb made out to DOJ

FWIW...I sent that same question to the ATF last night and had an answer in my inbox when I woke up this morning, less than 8 hours later. (Sure wish they'd be that fast with the Form 1 applications.

Here's the email and reply:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BATFE

Andrew Ashton
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives
Specialist - NFA Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, WV 25405 Suite 1250
(304) 616-4541 Direct Line #
(304) 616-4500 Main Line #
(304) 616-4501 Fax #

-----Original Message-----
From: Me
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 9:03 PM
To: NFA
Subject: Form 1 tax payment

I have my form filled out and ready to sign, but have a question about the $200 check.

The top of the form says:

"Submit with your application a check or money order for $200 made payable to the Department of the Justice."

But in the instructions section of the form it says:

"If the application is subject to the making tax, a check or money order, made payable to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, in the amount of $200.00 must be submitted with the ATF Form 1."

My question is simply who is the check to be made out to?  I didn't think there was a "the" in Department of Justice, but then the instruction section said BATFE.

Thanks!
Greg
*******
NOTICE: This e-mail message and any attached files are intended
solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above in connection
with official business.  This communication may contain Sensitive
But Unclassified information that may be statutorily or otherwise
prohibited from being released without appropriate approval.  Any
review, use, or dissemination of this e-mail message and any
attached file(s) in any form outside of the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives or the Department of Justice without
express authorization is strictly prohibited.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I'm guessing they'll take either. Previous poster used DOJ and they cashed it. DOJ is what is written on the form itself, and I don't know what percentage of people actually read all the fine print on pages 3 & 4 of the Form 1, so they may never even see the BATFE portion.

-Greg

ok so I setup a trust already got all the forms filled out correctly, the form1 and the 5330 and a copy of my executed trust and the check for 200 bucks. heres my question, I bought a double barrel shotgun on the net and had it sent to a guy who is going to cut it down. on the schedule a in the trust, do I have to put the gun down or do I leave the schedule a blank? and if I do put it down what do I put down? thanks

The OP says, "5). The ATF requires that double sided paperwork be submitted."
Does this mean they want TWO FORM 1s (back to back) or was he saying the FORM 1 on one side and the Citizenship Form (5330.20) on the back?  
Or does the FORM 4 go on the back--I don't think I need a Form 4 since I'm just going to get my current lower engraved, THEN buy an SBR upper somewhere and put them together.  

Form 1s and 4s are both two pages.  They must both be printed front and back.  If you send in two separate pages it will get sent back for correction.  The certificate of compliance is a single page, do not try to print it on the same piece of paper as the Form 1.  And you're correct, you don't need a Form 4.

To cut down on package thickness and weight, I printed my trust front & back as well. I haven't mailed it, yet...so I can reprint if needed. Anybody every had one sent back for trust being printed 2-sided?

-Greg

https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/

2  two sided copies if your form1
COC form
Schedule if assets  sheet
5 pages  of ny trust
Check to batfe

And I mail. Mind in a flat rate priorty mail envelope  $5.20 so I can track it.

My question is on the schedule A.  What do you. list as form of ownership

Joint,sole,joint tendency in common,tangible ect

I wish. As I posted in another thread, I've had no luck registering or using that site. 2 laptops (tried both the recommended IE8 and Firefox), an iPhone (Safari) and a Kindle Fire HD (Silk and Dolphin browsers)...and get java errors on everything.

May have to try at a friend's house instead.

-Greg

So I only need one picture on each form 1 right? I assume its the same with the Form 4? How do you guys attach the photos, paperclip or do you actually tape/glue them on?

You only need one certificate of compliance right?

Trying to submit my first forms today or tomorrow. Two 1's and a 4. Pretty excited

Greg,

If you are still watching this you MUST have at least 5 alphabetic characters in your password.  It took me 100+ tries to figure it out.

I'm planning on doing a 300 blackout SBR on a 5.56 marked lower too. What I'm going to do is add "Cal: 300BLK" as an additional line when I engrave my name and City, State on the lower. I will list .300 Blackout as the caliber on the Form 1.