Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

ALICE Gear Setups (Page 19 of 23)
Page / 23
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#1]
I've been trying different pouches.  Was using the following arrangement:



The magazine pouch on the butt pack is a stand-in for an IFAK (been considering the Chinook Medical one, or using an insert kit in a mag pouch).

In lieu of the pistol mag pouch and innermost left rifle mag pouch, and in lieu of the right magazine pouch, I used early Portuguese m/64 pouches.  Each has two single pouches side-by-side on a panel, a flap that uses a similar tab to the Canadian pouches (but reversed, with the loop on the body and staple on the flap), internal lifting straps, and extra straps for securing the magazines under the flap.  They also have a grommeted tab on the bottom for M1910 gear and just slide onto the belt with belt loops.  I attached pistol mag pouch to the tab on the left Portuguese pouch.

I got some M1956 universal pouches and USMC M1961 M-14 mag pouches the other day really cheap, so I decided to try a different arrangement, and so far I like it.  I'd prefer pouches like the M1961 but with the same closing method as the Canadian pouches.  Lost the dump pouch from the first picture in the Coronado National Forest, so I'll need to get another.

Changes I'm looking to make include modifying the Canadian pouches.  I want to add tabs on the sides to allow for attachment of MOLLE or ALICE pouches that require only one keeper or strap and add grommeted tabs to the bottoms to allow for attaching gear with wire hangers.  I'd prefer the pistol mag pouch to be under the inboard Canadian pouch on the left.  I also need to remove the plastic parts that allow attachment to Pattern 82 belts so that I can use slide keepers instead, as I don't like the pouches sliding around everywhere.  I also want to get a Canadian MOLLE bayonet frog and a FAL bayonet scabbard that uses a button and is compatible with the frog and attach it to the side of one of the Canadian pouches.  I'm also looking to sew on a M1961 pouch to the canteen cover. I also want to get a small admin pouch to go where the pistol is at and add a grommeted tab so I can attach the holster to the bottom of it so as to utilize the same space (as there's hardly any space for anything behind the holster).





So far I still prefer the belt and suspenders setup, especially since I can't afford plates to go with a carrier, anyways, and also because it is pretty inexpensive.  I have little more than $100 invested in the setup above as far as the pouches, suspenders, belt, Camelbak, etc. go.
Link Posted: 10/14/2018 8:52:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Looks good. I have a set of suspenders. I need to get a belt and some pouches and figure out a set up.
Link Posted: 10/14/2018 9:13:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof.  After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up.
Link Posted: 10/14/2018 9:58:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof.  After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up.
View Quote
ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater.
Link Posted: 10/15/2018 5:04:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:
ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof.  After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up.
ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater.
The nice thing about the older gear is that it's way cheaper since a lot of it is surplus.  The setup above maybe at most cost me a bit over $130.  Given how expensive modern gear is, that's probably only a couple of pouches or three, or a chest rig or something, unless you happen upon a sale or something, or luck out on ebay.  I also prefer a belt and suspenders rig if I'm not going to be wearing body armour, and I can't afford body armour.

But yeah, some of the modern stuff is pretty sweet.  Lots of creative ideas not constrained by government specs.
Link Posted: 10/15/2018 2:09:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:

ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater.
View Quote
I agree with you.

The gear I use at the range is basically a slightly modified / updated [1000D cordura, MOLLE, padded, etc) version of the standard 1980's infantryman's ALICE set up.  No canteens, because I can fit a Nalgene in the utility pouch.

+ MOLLE Belt & Suspenders

LEFT TO RIGHT

+ Single HG Pouch
+ Double Rifle Shingle
+ Double Rifle Pouch
+ Utility Pouch
+ Double Rifle Pouch
+ Knife
+ Holster
+ First Aid Pouch

Works great for my civilian uses.
Link Posted: 10/15/2018 2:11:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Knife sheath has a pouch that holds a 2nd handgun mag.

Personally, I often consider ditching the handgun in favor of 2 or 3 more rifle mags, but have the holster so I leave it on the belt.
Link Posted: 5/10/2019 10:31:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Attachment Attached File


My Harness:

USGI belt and Y harness.
Blackhawk Belt pad.  USGI canteen pouches with cups and 1 stove, USGI triple mag pouches X2  USGI compass pouch, Diamondback Tactical dump pouch (with soft armor) serving as a buttpack.
Spec Plus Tanto held to the harness with Ranger Bands cut from an innertube.

Got a little bit of Alice gear left, but I think I'm going to ditch the last of it.  Alice was good, but in many cases Gen1 molle is better.
Link Posted: 5/31/2019 6:52:57 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm feeling nostalgic here: Anyone know where to get a set- 2x AR mag pouches, compass pouch, buttpack, 2x canteen pouches, buttpack, belt, suspenders ("H" or"Y")- LC2 set for cheap?
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 12:54:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:
I'm feeling nostalgic here: Anyone know where to get a set- 2x AR mag pouches, compass pouch, buttpack, 2x canteen pouches, buttpack, belt, suspenders ("H" or"Y")- LC2 set for cheap?
View Quote
You're probably better off getting the components piece by piece.  I can often find individual parts really cheap if I shop around enough (and sometimes I've gotten lucky at the surplus store), but I find that when someone puts together a set to sell, they usually have an inflated price compared to getting everything separately.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 12:59:45 AM EDT
[#11]
I decided to try a new arrangement with my stuff and I like it better.





I also have a "battle belt" setup using pouches and stuff on-hand.



And with a bayonet for fun.

Link Posted: 6/1/2019 12:03:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Good call, bigstick. Nice rigs, too.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 8:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#13]
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 9:36:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#14]
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:07:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.
View Quote
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:33:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me.
The only M1956 stuff I have currently are the buttpack (M1961) and a couple of the "universal" ammo pouches, which are one of the few that will actually hold two BM-59 magazines comfortably (which is why I bought them); they also have my preferred closure method (never been sure what it's called, though).  Neither are in collectible condition.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:35:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Ah, Yes, Belgian Combo Device, and tube-handle bayonet.  Similar to my FAL set-up.  Good choice, accuracy-wise; it did well in my tests done long ago, posted both here and at Falfiles.  If it is still available, the South African compensator device that slipped over the BCD is also a considerable accuracy-enhancer.  Best accuracy results in my personal, semi-scientific teats were with BCD and SA slip-over device.  Full-weight STOLL was a close second, but much longer, so I sent with the BCD, naturally.  To sum up, the more weight (mass) at the end of the FAL military-style barrel, the better the accuracy. The SA device (added mass) also had the benefit of being a compensator in itself, and re-directed muzzle blast perfectly for a right-handed shooter.  It was probably intended for Full-auto fire, but works well in semi-auto, whilst adding useful mass (accuracy enhancement) to the OEM FAL barrel. I'd use it during the daytime, as I suspect it enhanced muzzle flash, as compared to the bare BCD.

There are probably better flash suppressors available nowadays, compared to when I performed my long-ago comparison with all the then-available flash suppressors from DSArms.  At that point, I was testing for accuracy, and not for flash suppression. OTOH, other flash suppressors probably entail giving up the bayonet.   Your call on that aspect.  I am satisfied with my current rig (Long BCD+SA Device) but if I opted for a "medium weight" barrel, for enhanced accuracy at longer ranges, I would opt for an A2-style flash suppressor specifically intended for a .308 rifle.  Beware of re-worked A2 5.56 flash suppressors--For example, the currently-offered "A2-style" FS offered by DSArms looks to me like a re-worked 5.56 FS.  Look closely, and you can see so.   A purpose-made .308 A2 FS will be longer than a 5.56 FS--has to be, on account of the increased volume of gasses expelled from the muzzle.
YMMV.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I decided to try a new arrangement with my stuff and I like it better.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975906582_d134a65ee8_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975915208_9cd0b2923f_b.jpg

I also have a "battle belt" setup using pouches and stuff on-hand.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46820080985_5a8eeb542a_b.jpg

And with a bayonet for fun.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40770065473_df3868d696_b.jpg
Ah, Yes, Belgian Combo Device, and tube-handle bayonet.  Similar to my FAL set-up.  Good choice, accuracy-wise; it did well in my tests done long ago, posted both here and at Falfiles.  If it is still available, the South African compensator device that slipped over the BCD is also a considerable accuracy-enhancer.  Best accuracy results in my personal, semi-scientific teats were with BCD and SA slip-over device.  Full-weight STOLL was a close second, but much longer, so I sent with the BCD, naturally.  To sum up, the more weight (mass) at the end of the FAL military-style barrel, the better the accuracy. The SA device (added mass) also had the benefit of being a compensator in itself, and re-directed muzzle blast perfectly for a right-handed shooter.  It was probably intended for Full-auto fire, but works well in semi-auto, whilst adding useful mass (accuracy enhancement) to the OEM FAL barrel. I'd use it during the daytime, as I suspect it enhanced muzzle flash, as compared to the bare BCD.

There are probably better flash suppressors available nowadays, compared to when I performed my long-ago comparison with all the then-available flash suppressors from DSArms.  At that point, I was testing for accuracy, and not for flash suppression. OTOH, other flash suppressors probably entail giving up the bayonet.   Your call on that aspect.  I am satisfied with my current rig (Long BCD+SA Device) but if I opted for a "medium weight" barrel, for enhanced accuracy at longer ranges, I would opt for an A2-style flash suppressor specifically intended for a .308 rifle.  Beware of re-worked A2 5.56 flash suppressors--For example, the currently-offered "A2-style" FS offered by DSArms looks to me like a re-worked 5.56 FS.  Look closely, and you can see so.   A purpose-made .308 A2 FS will be longer than a 5.56 FS--has to be, on account of the increased volume of gasses expelled from the muzzle.
YMMV.
There isn't much available that works with the threads on the FAL.  I'm fine with the FNC combo device I have.  I eventually want to get one of the Israeli training grenade sets and launch them for fun, for which having the spigot is useful, and it, of course, also allows the use of the bayonet (plus I like the look).
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:56:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture.  The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll.

The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.

An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time.  So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone.  It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing.

Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear.  Take heed.

Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder.  Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present.  This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best.  Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this.  In my experience, this is a very laborious process.  One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed.

If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR.  Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric.  It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew.

Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay.  Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it.  Might bring surprising $.  Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this.

Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate  Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear.

FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses.  For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles.  The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE.

I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage.  I will consider posting it on the EE.
View Quote
The cotton stuff works fine if you're not in some hot and humid environment and you're only using a couple of items with a set of gear (most of my time is spent in dry climates).  Nylon is better, but when you're on a budget, you get what you can.  I paid something like $5 for the cotton butt pack.  I'm not sure I would be getting a whole lot of benefit by getting a new nylon version, which I'm sure would cost a lot more, as much as I'd like one with some changes from the original (and surplus nylon ones seem to be rare and collectible in any condition).

Also, I have a MALICE clip for a MOLLE pouch, and it does not fit on any of my gear that uses the slide keepers.  I tried and did not like the methods of using zip ties or paracord as alternatives.  What I like about the slide keepers is that they keep pouches from freely sliding around on the belt and allow for quick and easy changes to configuration (I've used wire hangers to the same effect; they also can allow for two pouches to be attached in the same belt space if the pouch attached to the belt has a tab with the grommets on the bottom).  The only ones that cause any discomfort or issue are the two on the buttpack.

IMO it works much better relative to the latest stuff (especially equivalent modern stuff, like modern belts and suspenders) than a Model T does relative to the latest automobiles.  I think it'll lose its value for those who don't already have the gear once prices become universally collector-level prices.  Affordability while maintaining utility is what makes it attractive for someone like me.  Once the prices due to collectability start to approach modern gear prices, you might as well just get the modern gear unless the older item in question is something that lacks a suitable modern equivalent.

If I had the money I'd probably have all new production or bespoke gear (some stuff I want, like my preferred type of magazine pouches, aren't really made), but it would probably still be belt-and-suspenders.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 11:39:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 11:52:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#20]
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 11:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: raf] [#21]
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 12:09:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
I've owned SA cotton canvas '58-based gear (Pattern 70), and it was some of the heaviest , stoutest, canvas I've ever seen.  Well-made, but I wouldn't want to carry it when wet.

The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable.  One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured.  Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear.  I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter.  YMMV.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me.
I've owned SA cotton canvas '58-based gear (Pattern 70), and it was some of the heaviest , stoutest, canvas I've ever seen.  Well-made, but I wouldn't want to carry it when wet.

The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable.  One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured.  Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear.  I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter.  YMMV.  
For sure on the weight. All of my P70 (and P61/64) sets have had DWR applied, not that I'm out in the rain much here in the SW. This is me just ruminating, but I think the P70 gear stays put better. Probably a combination of the weight of the of the web gear and the weave of the cotton material.

I do have a P83 vest. It's great for carrying a lot of mags, but you're right: beyond that, there is no way for the user to configure it further. Older gear is awesome, but MOLLE gear has been a blessing.
Link Posted: 6/2/2019 1:40:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture.  The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll.

The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.

An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time.  So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone.  It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing.

Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear.  Take heed.

Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder.  Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present.  This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best.  Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this.  In my experience, this is a very laborious process.  One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed.

If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR.  Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric.  It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew.

Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay.  Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it.  Might bring surprising $.  Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this.

Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate  Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear.

FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses.  For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles.  The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE.

I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage.  I will consider posting it on the EE.
View Quote
There's literally no reason for someone looking for gear to use to buy ALICE anymore unless there's some odd niche thing you need it for. ALICE is for collectors at this point, and I'd argue that it's been that way for at least 5 years now. It's done.

Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget.
Link Posted: 6/3/2019 10:28:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 6/4/2019 3:05:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigstick61] [#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:

I don't disagree with anything you've said, for those on a very tight budget.  Allow me to make a suggestion:  Ditch the ALICE pistol belt, and buy a decent, simple padded waist belt with a QD buckle, and PALS webbing on its' outer surface.  Maybe something like this: https://store.oldgrouch.biz/uspamobesuse.html
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:

I don't disagree with anything you've said, for those on a very tight budget.  Allow me to make a suggestion:  Ditch the ALICE pistol belt, and buy a decent, simple padded waist belt with a QD buckle, and PALS webbing on its' outer surface.  Maybe something like this: https://store.oldgrouch.biz/uspamobesuse.html
I like the flexibility of the belt over the PALS grid given the wide variety of pouch sizes.  I've considered the padding, I just don't have the discomfort to actually motivate me to go and do it.  I like the setup a poster in this thread had where used an old padded belt from a pack and attached it to the inside of his ALICE belt.  He's the one who gave me the idea to attach the Camelbak the way I did (and to use the M1967 suspenders for that purpose).  Any new MOLLE belt would, of course, require me to find some new suspenders as well that I like (I'd prefer something better than what comes with that USMC MOLLE setup).  Still, I might eventually go that route, but for the time being, I have many higher spending priorities given that what I have is working for me.  I may actually just have a belt and suspenders made for me when the time comes.

Then you can get rid of the ALICE clips, and use SHORT MALICE clips for your ALICE stuff.  The SHORT MALIE clips were specifically made for ALICE gear; you need to use the correct slot on the tab to get a good fit with the SHORT MALICE clips.  MUCH more comfortable (and a tinch less weight) than any un-padded pistol belt, BTDT.  For stuff that uses wire hangars, there are some MOLLE adaptors that have the metal grommets for hanger-style items such as this: https://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Alice-Adaptor/dp/B005N3K05Y/ref=pd_day0_hl_200_5/132-8357810-0970304?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005N3K05Y&pd_rd_r=1616900a-84e7-11e9-a9ce-814cf5dd9e62&pd_rd_w=ADUzG&pd_rd_wg=0xIod&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT&psc=1&refRID=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT
I double checked to make sure I remembered correctly, and the MALICE clips will not work with the majority of the pouches I'm using that can use slide keepers.  The slots are too narrow.  This include the mag pouches and butt pack.  They work with the canteen pouch, but since it's attached to the butt pack, it's not a big deal either way.

If you'll notice, at this point my gear has undergone an evolution to the point that a lot of the actual ALICE stuff I once used is no longer being used (most of it sits in a box; I have enough to make a couple of emergency handout rigs if I had to).  In fact, the belt is the only true ALICE item still being used (and I'd prefer an M1967 belt instead).  I've found that older or later gear, or foreign gear, fit the bill better in a number of cases while still being cheap to get in the case of foreign or older American stuff.

For example, the Canadian Pattern 82 pouches I'm using are great.  Once you take out the plastic insert for attachment to the Canadian gear, you can use the slide keepers (which also allow attachment to MOLLE via the aforementioned adapters, of which I have several, although pouches attached this way can sag a bit more than I'd like).  It also has a velcro belt loop.  It's designed to be used with suspenders, has a drain hole, dividers between the magazines, lifting straps for the magazines, a full protective flap with a waterproof lining, modern nylon construction that seems similar to cordura and has some sort of water-resistant treatment, and uses my preferred pull tab closure/opening mechanism.  Sized specifically for FAL magazines.  I've yet to find a MOLLE pouch like this.

Shop around; not suggesting any particular vendor, although Old Grouch is a member/Dealer here, IIRC.

Good luck; I've updated a fair amount of ALICE gear over the years, so I know it can be done.
I've bought stuff from him before.
Link Posted: 6/4/2019 3:16:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:

I've owned SA cotton canvas '58-based gear (Pattern 70), and it was some of the heaviest , stoutest, canvas I've ever seen.  Well-made, but I wouldn't want to carry it when wet.

The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable.  One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured.  Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear.  I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter.  YMMV.  
View Quote
User-configurable chest rigs and vests were not quite a thing yet in the 1980s.  For that they are, they are pretty nice.  There are actually quite a variety of configurations, I've recently learned, including some with holsters for Hi Powers and similar pistols.  Seems like they are inspired by the private-purchase Rhodesian load bearing vests and chest rigs.  IIRC, the Rhodesians were one of the earliest widespread Western users of that stuff.  The Rhodesian stuff comes in a a wide variety of configurations as well.  An interesting piece I saw the other day was a five-pocket rig with two adjustable grenade pockets as well, equipped with South African Pattern 61/64 suspenders; the owner of the rig, who is the one who ordered it this way and used it during the war, said it was very comfortable to wear for long durations.

Obviously after the nylon SADF stuff and any similar gear from other countries, the next evolution was MOLLE rigs and even better materials.  I do think that some of the stuff out there now, while costly, is very nice.

Getting back to the SADF Pattern 83 stuff, there existed rigs meant to be 5.56mm compatible by having lifter straps inside, and the correct dimensions, to permit use with 7.62X51mm mags as well, in addition to the dedicated 5.56mm and 7.62mm rigs.  I've noticed that the dedicated 7.62mm rigs tend to have more pockets than most of the 5.56mm ones.
Link Posted: 6/19/2019 10:34:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By raf:

I think you make a very good point, in that modern MOLLE gear is currently cheap and widely available (like ALICE gear used to be), and much more user configurable.  Even the Grey-speckled UCP gear can be easily dyed at little cost, and to great benefit.

I don't see where even the most dead-broke and die-hard ALICE user can't benefit from upgrading to USGI MOLLE gear.  The two platforms were designed to be compatible; ALICE gear can be used on MOLLE platforms, for sure.  The ALICE clips will work, but the lightweight MALICE fasteners are miles better than the old clips.  I still use some very specific ALICE items, but the ALICE clips are long gone.

To dedicated ALICE Users:  Get yourself a MOLLE vest and/or belt, some LW MALICE clips for your ALICE pouches, and see what you think.
.
View Quote
raf

it's been a long time good buddy, couldn't agree with you more. Since assembling my first Hellcat nearly 15 years ago(and posting it on arfcom 10 years ago geez hard to believe it's been that long), alice gear was practically being given away, and first gen woodland molle shoulder straps and waist belts were hitting eBay w/ reckless abandon(literally); so uncle sam could make room for the new molle 2 enhanced ACU gear. Building a Hellcat was a steal for $40-$70. MOLLE 2 packs/rucks were selling for $150-$300. Right now I am looking at 5 MOLLE rucks in my office that I have not paid more than $70 shipped for any of them, $48 shipped for the least expensive one( ACU MOLLE 2 complete w/ 2 sustainment pouches). Prices will continue to be driven downward once the MOLLE 4000 starts to replace even the MOLLE 2 multicam. Good times are ahead for molle! Not so much for alice; right now, alice its trending $10-$20 higher for an assembled frame and ruck. That's before you add the molle upgrades. I agree, nows the time to sell your alice gear.

I'm not planning on retiring my Hellcats any time soon; it's a great hybrid ruck, particularly if you already own the alice pack and frame.  However, the molle rucks w/ gen 4 frames(1603) are hard to beat right now. I'll be posting an update on Hellcat mods in the near future; Hellcat 2.0 ??  Haven't decided what to call it yet. I also have plans for some video's featuring molle rucks; mods, tips and tricks. Good to be posting again, it's been way too long.

Best regards

Rod
Link Posted: 6/21/2019 8:23:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 6/23/2019 9:06:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
There's literally no reason for someone looking for gear to use to buy ALICE anymore unless there's some odd niche thing you need it for. ALICE is for collectors at this point, and I'd argue that it's been that way for at least 5 years now. It's done.

Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture.  The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll.

The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly).  Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants.  Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below.

An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time.  So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone.  It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing.

Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear.  Take heed.

Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder.  Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present.  This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best.  Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this.  In my experience, this is a very laborious process.  One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed.

If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR.  Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric.  It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew.

Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay.  Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it.  Might bring surprising $.  Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this.

Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate  Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear.

FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses.  For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles.  The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE.

I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage.  I will consider posting it on the EE.
There's literally no reason for someone looking for gear to use to buy ALICE anymore unless there's some odd niche thing you need it for. ALICE is for collectors at this point, and I'd argue that it's been that way for at least 5 years now. It's done.

Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget.
I was using a ALICE pistol belt/h-harness in 03-05 because I found it better for saw pouches. I think the belt suspenders are "fine" for most people but I was pleasantly surprised with the $20 USMC molle warbelt I picked up and use for a hunting belt.

Really rivals my much more expensive hsgi suregrip warbelt with cobra belt, etc.

Without that option for cheap surplus than the ALICE is "fine".

Since I'm not in and out of vehicles I prefer everything on my belt.
Link Posted: 6/23/2019 4:17:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 1/29/2020 4:09:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Bump to avoid archive
Link Posted: 2/14/2020 11:51:07 AM EDT
[#32]
Pardon me for the 10 years old pictures that maybe aren't that clear, i think it was a cool twist so i took this from an Army Ranger.
It is an Alice setup rigged as a chest rig, in my opinion the layout is reminiscent of the early Tactical Tailor rigs they would receive in the late part of the 90's. Made from a belt with extender, 4 front mag pouches followed by two FFD pouches and two canteens. Shoulder straps are carrying straps from the Machine gun spare barrel bag. It was worn over Ranger Body Armor, so discomfort is somehow alleviated.




Among the junk of the same man there was also this interesting item. the alice shoulder harness has grenade rings on the d rings; they are to be mated to that modified load bearing vest panels. by buckling the modified panels to the grenade rings on the harness and attaching the loops to the belt he could quickly upgrade the alice belt rig with another basic load of ammo. i guess the man was on a budget

Link Posted: 2/14/2020 9:00:52 PM EDT
[#33]
This thread has got me motivated to get my ALICE gear back together.  The belt, suspenders, mag pouches and buttpack were handed down to me by my dad who was light infantry in the Army in the 80s and very early 90s.  It's an important piece of gear to me from a nostalgic standpoint.  I'm waiting on some other pieces to come in from EBAY and finish it up before I take any pictures of it but I'll be posting it here for sure.
Link Posted: 2/14/2020 10:58:09 PM EDT
[#34]
I still have my Alice set up from my Army days.
Link Posted: 2/15/2020 2:33:20 PM EDT
[#35]
The start.  Waiting on m12 holster, pistol mag pouches, FAK and canteen cup/cover combo to come in.

Ive gotta.dig my ALICE.pack up too.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/16/2020 2:55:00 AM EDT
[#36]
The trick of using paracord for quick adjustments to compensate for the lack of that capability is just so cool.

I will post the one I use and another cool one.
Link Posted: 3/8/2020 1:00:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Not ALICE, but it is a contemporary system.The drop pouch and med pouch are from Techincom, the supplier for the Ratnik modernization program of the Russian Army.Between the connecting strap and the drop pouch has a sheath for a knife.  Plus some Baltimore Clipper Ship pride .


image sharing
Link Posted: 3/8/2020 4:09:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Need to dig mine up too. The one I assembled when I was stationed in Germany '86-'89. Still complete with the blank firing adapter attached to the grenade loop on the magazine pouch.
Link Posted: 3/9/2020 1:54:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore.
Link Posted: 3/9/2020 11:08:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore.
View Quote
What about something like this?
Link Posted: 3/9/2020 12:34:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 300Blackout_Drunk] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
What about something like this?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore.
What about something like this?
Ooh I like it. Found it for like half that price elsewhere thankfully, still going to hunt for a poor version!
Link Posted: 3/9/2020 4:33:21 PM EDT
[#42]



Suspender, belt, first aid, ammo and canteen pouches are issue items. Belt pad is Eagle industries, buttpack and radio pouch are by tactical. Tailor,  tools pouch is Blackhawk Emt utility pouch.

I use it for black powder day hunts, with a little pack like the fplif patrol pack i can stay overnight.
Link Posted: 3/9/2020 4:57:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Ooh I like it. Found it for like half that price elsewhere thankfully, still going to hunt for a poor version!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore.
What about something like this?
Ooh I like it. Found it for like half that price elsewhere thankfully, still going to hunt for a poor version!


Back when I was in 25 years ago (damn I'm getting old ) we'd tie our 5qt canteens in there.
Link Posted: 3/10/2020 12:22:46 PM EDT
[#44]
This was a set i bought off ebay 10 years or so ago.

-Standard belt and Eagle industries belt pad
-Suspenders are the very big and padded Eagle Industries Ranger H-harness https://www.opticsplanet.com/eagle-industries-ranger-h-harness.html
-Buttpack is Blackhawk LRRP  which has main compartment plus 4 pouches
-Two issue first aid/compass pouches
-Two machine gun belt pouches (5.56 200 round belts)
-Two issue canteen pouches, one with sewn strobe pouch

There were taped and dummy corded canteens, taped purification pills, ear plug case, dummy corded strobe,  signal mirror, camo cream, dressings and reflective tape still inside some pockets



Link Posted: 3/10/2020 3:41:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaTrain1371:
Not ALICE, but it is a contemporary system.The drop pouch and med pouch are from Techincom, the supplier for the Ratnik modernization program of the Russian Army.Between the connecting strap and the drop pouch has a sheath for a knife.  Plus some Baltimore Clipper Ship pride .

https://i.postimg.cc/153Bwc19/web-gear-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Y0GcSc3P/web-gear-3.jpgimage sharing
View Quote
I've been very pleased with my Flecktarn LBE sets. I actually prefer them to ALICE. Durable, and the attachment system works really well.
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 6:30:16 PM EDT
[#46]
From a lot of posts here I don't see any knives attached to your gear.  I always had two. One on my belt and the other on my H-Suspenders. Usually had a 4 inch boot knife design.
Link Posted: 6/9/2020 7:58:27 PM EDT
[#47]
One of the reasons why I no longer suggest GI ALICE items is that such items are so old that their original Polyurethane costing, inside the fabric, is deteriorating, and giving off the typical stink.  This has nothing to do with sunlight/age deterioration of the outside of the nylon, which also occurs, over time.

It is also a problem that some ALICE items are being snapped-up by collectors, at collector prices.  Go look at M1967 20 rd mag pouches.  Make sure you're seated when you see the asked-for prices.  I believe I have 15 or so of such pouches, like new, simply storing my re-furbished GI 20-rd mags.  Maybe I'll wait a while, and sell the pouches off for some seriousbucks.

I did so before with a LOT of older USGI gear.  Might be time for selling the 20-rd pouches.


Link Posted: 6/10/2020 4:45:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 6/10/2020 11:34:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mike_nds:
I just found some M1967 20 rounder's on ebay for $22 each. And another place for $23.

Are you finding them priced higher than that?
View Quote

I was buying them locally (all he had) for about $5 each, 3 years back.  Store is no longer in business, unfortunately.
Link Posted: 6/27/2020 1:23:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Not ALICE, but I picked up this harness for $25 off of Ebay.

Its a discontinued Air Force Item.  Air Force Rifleman harness or something.

More comfortable than a traditional ALICE harness, and MOLLE.  The pouches I already had lying around.


Attachment Attached File
Page / 23
ALICE Gear Setups (Page 19 of 23)
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top