I just bought a case.  Let's see how it does in my MK12.

I bought a case. I needed a 308 neck die anyway.

I'd like to see some shooting results when you guys get a chance to shoot it.  One case inbound for future testing for me.

my case shipped and should be here tuesday, now I need to find 3 to 500 yards to use to play with them. I never saw a small farming community with so few shooters in my life. I had 300 in my back yard in N.C. and thought with all this prime flat farm land in Washington I could improve on that but no luck so far.

Lived in NC now lives in WA and has an IN location


Mine shipped today as well.

washington Indiana, just to be clear.

I just ordered a case to try out in my Mk12. The Black Hills stuff is very accurate for me so far and my hand loads are also very accurate, just a bit smaller groups with the testing I have done so far. I need the weather to cooperate so I can test more loads out.

When this stuff gets here I will try it out ASAP.

It is from IMI so it should be GTG. Not an IMI fanboy but all the ammo I have shot from them has been good stuff so far.

I plan on putting down some major bacon with these!

Cool!  Looking forward to pics!

I can't ever see your vids on my ipad (I don't know if it's a format issue or what), but if you post any I'll try to get to a PC!



You have to relish the thought of jewish ammo to kill a hog, then it'd be the ultimate if the rest of the ammo could be dipped and used on Jihadis!  Mwuhahahaa!

I got a couple of cases. Depending how it shoots, ill probably get much more.

I got mine today. I will try and test some out this weekend.

Is wideners the only place that has this?

Looking foward to some results.

I think so.   I can't find it anywhere else and Widener's has always had preferential treatment by IMI.  

Has anyone had a chance to check out their ammo yet?

I was wondering how the ammo looked, the bullet condition compared to other matchking loads and the quality of the brass.  

I have always been impressed with IMI ammo and was just curious if this batch of new ammo met the same standards.

TIA.

My ammo should be here some time tomorrow afternoon and I will let you know how it looks.

I'll try to takes some pictures later today to compare it.

The IMI Razor Core is always on the left.  Black Hills 5.56 77 Gr. OTM is on right.

Mine is the same as GreenGoose. Only diff is mine has a number 7 in place of his number 4. Lot number is the same also.


And the blue thing the rounds are in is a bitch to get out of the box.


ETA. I just opened five more boxes and the number 7 is one of many on these rounds. I have from number 1 to number 23 so far. All year 13.

Well the brass looks the same as mine,  actually yours might be a touch better. I would say it is a minor disappointment. I have received many lots of IMI ammo & never had anything but spotless brass. Granted it was M193 or M855 not match OTM's.

I can't tell from your pics the condition of the open tips, but mine are disappointing when compared to some SSA & win OTM's. Maybe the one bad box got opened but so far not the product quality I would have expected.

Not sure if its enough to contact the distributor or just say eff it & call it expensive blasting ammo.

I suppose the next step is to see if it shoots worth anything before I make an email or call.

If it shoots good, what difference does it make

its not your wife's wedding ring, its frakkin ammo!

why would you go pissing about it to the distributor? they didnt make it. Edited - Eric802

can one of you guys pull a bullet and tell us if it has neck sealant?

I really could care less what the cartridge and bullet looks like as long as it performs the same or better.  We'll see when it warms up a bit.

How will it do in a 1:9 twist?

While there are some 9 twist guns that will shoot 77's there are a lot that will not. Sierra recommends at least a 8 twist if I remember right

You'd be right at the borderline bud.  It might stabilize (some 1:9 barrels do), but you'd have to test it to be sure.

you might have trouble with that.

not 100% sure but a 20" barrel might do better than a 16". just go to your local shop and get one box of any 77/75 grain ammo and try it. the results should be the same for any bullet.

i use to have a 16" 1x9 that would shoot the 69gr stuff very well. have to tried that yet?

Thanks

They have neck and primer sealant on them. It can be seen with out even pulling a bullet on a lot of the rounds I got.

This isn't about the looks of the ammunition, this is about the precision, care and handling of said ammunition. As a general rule, if a company makes a great product, and they want the world to know it they will pay attention to the details of the little things, which puts my mind at ease that they most assuredly have all the more important bases covered.

If the brass has corrosion, or some foreign matter on it, I am concerned, not for looks, but possible performance issues. If the bullets do not appear to be seated concentrically, I am concerned, not for looks, but for possible performance issues. If the tips of the bullets appear distorted, I am concerned, not for looks but for possible performance issues.

I have never had even a whiff of a problem at all with IMI ammo ever, which is why I bought this before any arfcom reviews, because of the brand reputation they have established over many transactions. This seems like an anomoly to what I have come to expect. If these rounds where advertised as second tier fodder, or floor sweepings from the Tel Aviv factory then there would have been no issue. As far as I can tell this is supposed to be first class ammo, but it doesn't have the same appearance as my previous experiences. As I have aluded to, I will have ALL my doubts laid to rest if it shoots nearly as well as SSA or Winchester match. I hope it turns out great and all of this is merely a cosmetic versus performance issue.

I shoot sierra match king bullets a lot and not all the points on the bullet are exact, some are longer and more pointed but it wont affect anything and should be very good ammo. shoot it and if you dont like it sell it. it really is that easy.

Well I have rolled a lot of my own SMK's & Hornady OTM,  Never seen that much bullet to bullet distortion. Not in any loaded match ammo either.

I like to be impresised with ammo before dropping the hammer on the first round. I had been spoiled by IMI ammo in that regard.

I will shoot it first before final judgement, I am happy to hear you have had good results even with distorted projectiles.  

range report, range report, range report...

I took a pic of the bullet tips since it seems to be an issue.

This pic has a random four IMI rounds on the left and a random four Black Hills rounds on the right.

Not the best pic but you get the idea.






And four the record I have gotten 500 count boxes of the 77gr Match King bullets with a majority of the tips looking just like the IMI tips and they shot as good as any others.

I've been waiting for like ever omg

Thank you for the comparison pic. Not to belabor any point but the black hills tips do appear to be marginally better off than the IMI. I would give a greater initial vote of confidence to the BH. But of course the final proof is in the shooting.

Reading this thread & the experience of multiple shooters saying that dinged up hollowpoints don't seem to affect the accuracy that much has somewhat eased my initial concerns. I would truly love to have mk262 @ 78 cents a pop.

I would love too, it will take a little while to get my schedule & my brothers sync'ed.to go out for a IMI vs SSA shoot off.

Hell it  feels like forever since it has been decent enough weather to head out & shoot. Spring or global warming can't come soon enough.

You and me both

They make a tool that you can debur the tip to a uniform length on some auto trimmers but from my experience shooting the .308 168 gr and 175 gr bthp it didnt make a bit of difference. both trimmed and untrimmed stay well under .5 moa easily and at 200 yards shooting dime sized groups is no problem. I have not shot any of these yet so I cant speak for the IMI load but if its as good as the m855 its a very good round and the smk bullet hollow point is the best of the best.
Perhaps black hills does debur the hollow point and IMI does not Im not sure but then again It doesnt worry me at all.

i sent an email to IMI and they actually got back to me this morning. i asked what barrel lenght the listed velocity of 835 m/s, 2739 fps was taken from, they said a 20" 1x7.

Now, to see if this average grouping holds true....link to review

 

Okay, I got off my ass and went out for some real world chrono data.  I didn't have time to go to an actual range to shoot for accuracy, just a chrono run at the corner of the driveway (sorry neighbors.LOL)  I only used one barrel length, and no suppressor.  It's 16deg. F outside, and I was short on time and daylight.

Chrono used:  Shooting Chrony "Alpha Master"
Distance measured from muzzle to chrono: 15 feet.
Temperature: 16.5 deg. F
Altitude: 1584ft.
Humidity: 50.7%

Weapon used: Colt 16" LE6940

IMI 77gr. OTM, LR, MOD 1 ("Razor Core")
Lot number: 00235/D

Low:  2712fps
High: 2784fps
Avg.: 2742fps
ES:  71.43
SD:  24.04

Shot numbers
1.)  2729fps
2.)  2738fps
3.)  2784fps
4.)  2730fps
5.)  2760fps
6.)  2717fps
7.)  2773fps
8.)  2727fps
9.)  2712fps
10.)2751fps



As a comparison I also fired Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 (White box "Seconds") ammunition aquired from Cabela's in the past.

Chrono used:  Shooting Chrony "Alpha Master"
Distance measured from muzzle to chrono: 15 feet.
Temperature: 16.5 deg. F
Altitude: 1584ft.
Humidity: 50.6%

Weapon used: Colt 16" LE6940

Black Hills 5.56MM 77gr. Match HP
Lot number: BLH06H120-001

Low: 2611fps
High:2665fps
Avg.:2635fps
ES: 53.81
SD: 16.43

Shot numbers:
1.)  2641fps
2.)  2631fps
3.)  2611fps
4.)  2614fps
5.)  2632fps
6.)  2648fps
7.)  2635fps
8.)  2623fps
9.)  2647fps
10.)2665fps


Hopefully this info is helpful.  Yes, I know these aren't 20 shot strings, and they weren't measured across an Oehler, but unless someone wants to send me free ammo and a free Oehler, these will have to do for now.  I had to ditch two string attempts for piles of "error" failures, and this ammo gets expensive when you are just wasting it.

So....   In my Colt LE6940 (16" chrome 1:7 twist) I got an average of 2742fps from the IMI ammo, and an average of 2635 from the Black Hills.  The temperature was only 16 degrees, but I had just brought the ammo from inside.  I doubt it was much of a factor.

All said:  YMMV, my .02, etc., etc....!




ETA:  If my 6940 averaged 2742fps at 15 feet from the muzzle, what does that equal for "muzzle" velocity?  How do you figure that?
ETA #2:  I'm pretty surprised at the numbers I got, but I got what I got.  I can only post what the chrony says.  Maybe the BH lot I was using was a tad slower than normal?  I'm sure stuff varies a bit,  I dunno?

Mine came in yesterday. I wasn't able to get to the range until today - I zipped up to the range right after work.   Tried it real quick with two rifles, my MK12 and a 16" DD.  Will have pics up shortly.

2700 out of a 16" seems pretty good to me. Make a great great long range/Self defense load.

Ok here's what I came up with.  I was rushed for time, so this will have to do for now.  I'll spend more time later and see what I get.  

The way I shot this first group with my MK12 is a little ate up...  I had the scope on something else, so it wasn't zeroed.  I just threw it on, aimed at the center of the target, and shot five rounds.  
After I shot those, I adjusted the scope real quick and shot five more at another target on the board ( the orange dot. note: the orange dot was not where it is on the target, it was in a different spot. I just put it there for the picture ) .  Then, since I was close enough, I put my suppressor on, aimed at the center dot, and fired five more for the heck of it.

All shooting was done at 100 yds.

     



I then shot my 16" DD.  It was already sighted in using BH MK262, and I was pleasantly surprised with the results.  I shot two five shot groups, both unsuppressed.

I'm stuck with an iPhone cam, but the brass looks fine to me.  I have some scratches (brand new LE6940) from the extractor shoulder and the ejector hole, but there is zero flow.  The heads look just like the Black Hills ammo, except the primers are less flat than the Black Hills loads.  I was pretty surprised at that.  I'll probably hold my overall judgement about the caseheads until I shoot some this summer when it's real hot out, but for now it looks good to go to me.

Black Hills on left, and IMI on left.  Sorry for the blurriness...



ETA: Sooperfly scooped me on the edit with case head pics.   Mine look just like his.  The IMI is less flat than the Black Hills.

ETA#2:  My brass had slightly shinier/smoother case walls after firing than Sooperfly's brass.  I fired all of it unsuppressed though.  

Thanks for sharing gents.