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User Panel
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2021 11:25:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: So does anyone know if guys carrying recce/spr type rifles such as the H are typically carrying 20 rounders in their load out or 30s? We see a lot of pics with 20s in the guns, but what about the rest of their mags? Most likely mission dependent if you’re referring to in the wild. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 12:34:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Most likely mission dependent if you’re referring to in the wild. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stainlineho: Originally Posted By UndrGrndPrdcts: So does anyone know if guys carrying recce/spr type rifles such as the H are typically carrying 20 rounders in their load out or 30s? We see a lot of pics with 20s in the guns, but what about the rest of their mags? Most likely mission dependent if you’re referring to in the wild. I guess my question is what is more common, and if you were going to take an H out with a carrier on for whatever reason, what capacity mags would be filling it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 1:20:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chikenmastr: Anyone have any ARMS medium rings they want to sell. Still trying to get this thing finished. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/475009/3517B931-B65D-49CA-8582-046F51973785_jpe-1751044.JPG PK Firearms has them. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2021 1:05:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Painted, assembled and test fired. So far it's a lot lighter than I was expecting it to be.
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Posted: 1/7/2021 4:59:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By boxcuta: Painted, assembled and test fired. So far it's a lot lighter than I was expecting it to be. https://i.imgur.com/cIsUZVt.jpg?1 That turned out nice. What barrel is that? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2021 7:17:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunterex: That turned out nice. What barrel is that? Thanks man, the barrel is BA fluted 16" "Premium". It's a 6.5 Grendel (don't judge me) Ron turned it for a collar when he opened up my AE5. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 11:28:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By boxcuta: Thanks man, the barrel is BA fluted 16" "Premium". It's a 6.5 Grendel (don't judge me) Ron turned it for a collar when he opened up my AE5. I won't judge on that. Many know me as the odd caliber Mk12 builder anyway. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2021 4:18:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunterex: I won't judge on that. Many know me as the odd caliber Mk12 builder anyway. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunterex: Originally Posted By boxcuta: Thanks man, the barrel is BA fluted 16" "Premium". It's a 6.5 Grendel (don't judge me) Ron turned it for a collar when he opened up my AE5. I won't judge on that. Many know me as the odd caliber Mk12 builder anyway. Well then you're my new bff This will eventually be a 6mm ARC. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2021 12:38:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Picked up an AEM5 the other day and was thinking about attempting to do a Holland URX4 build. Does anyone know if the gen 1 ace socom stocks were used for that gun or gens 1-3?
Appreciate any help! |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 4:37:59 PM EDT
[#10]
[NewspaperCatMeme]I should buy a PVS-27[/NewspaperCateMeme]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:03:09 PM EDT
[#11]
So I ordered a complete PRI Mod H upper and it was my understanding later in Mod H life that PRI did supply their complete uppers to the military. With that said, is the PRI BCG clone correct or should it be a colt?
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:11:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/29/2021 11:25:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Gents, I just finished reading 89 pages of this and my wallet is about to take a hit here.
 One question I have that isn't quite clear, were any Mod H's ever built with polished/bead blasted stainless barrels? I'm aware of the couple close ups of the Noveske FDE barrels, as well as some black coated barrels, but have we actually seen any confirmed evidence that these were built with unfinished stainless barrels? I'm planning to order a Bison and trying to decide between bead blasted and FDE finish. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 12:35:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ctres94: Gents, I just finished reading 89 pages of this and my wallet is about to take a hit here. One question I have that isn't quite clear, were any Mod H's ever built with polished/bead blasted stainless barrels? I'm aware of the couple close ups of the Noveske FDE barrels, as well as some black coated barrels, but have we actually seen any confirmed evidence that these were built with unfinished stainless barrels? I'm planning to order a Bison and trying to decide between bead blasted and FDE finish. In for the answers to this as well. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 1:38:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ctres94: Gents, I just finished reading 89 pages of this and my wallet is about to take a hit here. One question I have that isn't quite clear, were any Mod H's ever built with polished/bead blasted stainless barrels? I'm aware of the couple close ups of the Noveske FDE barrels, as well as some black coated barrels, but have we actually seen any confirmed evidence that these were built with unfinished stainless barrels? I'm planning to order a Bison and trying to decide between bead blasted and FDE finish. FYI: The step for the collar is not in the proper location for an SPR on the new Bison barrels. They are cut for an M4 collar. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2021 2:13:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 44Echo10: FYI: The step for the collar is not in the proper location for an SPR on the new Bison barrels. They are cut for an M4 collar. Source for that info? their site says otherwise for the SPR barrels. I'd be more inclined to go with the PRI Bergara if it weren't a 1:8. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 2:20:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ctres94: Source for that info? their site says otherwise for the SPR barrels. I'd be more inclined to go with the PRI Bergara if it weren't a 1:8. The barrel sitting in my parts bin. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2021 2:24:25 PM EDT
[#18]
It looks like they have two 16" 223 Wylde barrels, the Recon and the SPR. The Recon appears to have the step further forward for the M4 collar as you said. The SPR version pictured on the site appears to have the step further back in the normal spot. Do you have the Recon or SPR?
I sent an email to them to clarify as well, thanks for the heads up on this, I won't be ordering one if it won't fit a standard MK12 long Collar. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 2:34:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ctres94: It looks like they have two 16" 223 Wylde barrels, the Recon and the SPR. The Recon appears to have the step further forward for the M4 collar as you said. The SPR version pictured on the site appears to have the step further back in the normal spot. Do you have the Recon or SPR? I sent an email to them to clarify as well, thanks for the heads up on this, I won't be ordering one if it won't fit a standard MK12 long Collar. Okay, you may be alright then. I would clarify the location before ordering. I went with the 6.8 barrel. It showed two different locations in their pics for the collar location. You know what they say about ass-uming   . A mess up on my part, that will be remedied as soon as I can get it to an engine lathe. Didn't realize they had two different profiles listed on their .223 barrels. Wanted to spare you my headache. My barrel looks great. Just that darn step.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2021 4:15:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Answer I just received from Ben at Bison on this:
'Our SPR barrels are compatible with AEM products, and in particular the SPR is made for the Ops Inc 12th model which is the same as the AEM5 IIRC. We worked with Ron at AE to make sure the dimensions are right and I run Ops Inc 12th models on these barrels personally so I know they are correct.' I think this addresses the question. Really great service from Bison as well to provide such a detailed response so quickly on a weekend. |
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Posted: 1/30/2021 9:10:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ctres94: Gents, I just finished reading 89 pages of this and my wallet is about to take a hit here. One question I have that isn't quite clear, were any Mod H's ever built with polished/bead blasted stainless barrels? I'm aware of the couple close ups of the Noveske FDE barrels, as well as some black coated barrels, but have we actually seen any confirmed evidence that these were built with unfinished stainless barrels? I'm planning to order a Bison and trying to decide between bead blasted and FDE finish.  Attached FileThe above rifle appears to have a cerakote upper? Which means potentially rebuilt pri correct? Additionally this next rifle the lower seems to be the one that is cerakoted as the controls are mismatched to the lower and the lack of extreme wear points more towards the more durable cerakote.  Attached Filelast question is can anyone tell what upper receiver it was built on? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2021 12:42:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83]
[#22]
the upper/barrel were fde coated, points to later pri job.
lower might just be some tough aerovue paint? dont recall seeing a coated lower. i been away from mod h stuff...bout to change mine up to more recce style. mine is a bison SPR. i bead blasted and painted it tan. 7-8 turns on the collar. they are gtg. shoot great, have been to 900yds. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2021 6:59:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rgb]
[#23]
 Correct scope is gonna have to wait |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:51:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: To piggy back off of this... maybe someone can answer my questions on these specific rifles. More of a block II kind of guy and the mk12 world is new tome. So Paging @haveblue83... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/3B158447-D3A5-411A-B336-5D0AC4EA53B5_jpe-1804075.JPG The above rifle appears to have a cerakote upper? Which means potentially rebuilt pri correct? Additionally this next rifle the lower seems to be the one that is cerakoted as the controls are mismatched to the lower and the lack of extreme wear points more towards the more durable cerakote. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/48FC39BF-9E13-46D3-9B39-B27CF00B6D40_jpe-1804081.JPG last question is can anyone tell what upper receiver it was built on? Hollands weren't put together with bare stainless barrels. There were a few "prototypes" assembled off Brownells parts orders with black coated SS barrels. The rest were converted from existing SPR uppers and a few were scratch built, probably to replace totally busted uppers or the handful of SPR uppers sold/kept by PRI. On the upper you asked about it was a converted SPR upper, so pick from Armalite or Colt AF forge. Small chance of Diemaco but most likely the first two. Not enough pixels to see a rollmark through worn spraypaint. I haven't talked to the guy that sent me the pics of his Holland in a long time and doubt I can get him to verify it anymore. |
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Posted: 2/6/2021 5:12:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By boxcuta: Painted, assembled and test fired. So far it's a lot lighter than I was expecting it to be. https://i.imgur.com/cIsUZVt.jpg?1 |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:53:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stoner63a: @boxcuta is that a Galizien Lion crest? @stoner63a Depends who's asking...
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WV, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2021 8:28:05 PM EDT
[#27]
One step closer.
AEM cleared in under 4 months!!!    
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Posted: 2/12/2021 3:54:54 PM EDT
[#28]
If anyone sees a Gen 3 ACE M4 SOCOM stock for sale, or has one they don't need
, please let me know.You used to be able to find them occasionally, here or other sites, but I haven't seen one for sale in a couple months. 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 5:25:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shlouf]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyPilot12: If anyone sees a Gen 3 ACE M4 SOCOM stock for sale, or has one they don't need , please let me know.You used to be able to find them occasionally, here or other sites, but I haven't seen one for sale in a couple months. Even worse is seeing a pristine one on an abomination of a rifle the owner wants more for than a brand new SR-15 and not willing to part it out Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheShlouf: Even worse is seeing a pristine one on an abomination of a rifle the owner wants more for than a brand new SR-15 and not willing to part it out Click To View Spoiler Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheShlouf: Originally Posted By ArmyPilot12: If anyone sees a Gen 3 ACE M4 SOCOM stock for sale, or has one they don't need , please let me know.You used to be able to find them occasionally, here or other sites, but I haven't seen one for sale in a couple months. Even worse is seeing a pristine one on an abomination of a rifle the owner wants more for than a brand new SR-15 and not willing to part it out Click To View Spoiler 
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Posted: 2/12/2021 5:57:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kmcale]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheShlouf: Even worse is seeing a pristine one on an abomination of a rifle the owner wants more for than a brand new SR-15 and not willing to part it out Click To View Spoiler It's a shame the Gen 3 ACE..uh..I mean, The Hammer is being used on such a thing. Is that an actual reference to the Gen 3, or was that smoke coming out of one's ass? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 6:03:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: It's a shame the Gen 3 ACE..uh..I mean, The Hammer is being used on such a thing. Is that an actual reference to the Gen 3, or was that smoke coming out of one's ass? Wonder how battered the slot notches are on it with the 50AE upper. 5.56 for how mild it is does a number on them over time. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 6:07:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kmcale]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hunterex: Wonder how battered the slot notches are on it with the 50AE upper. 5.56 for how mild it is does a number on them over time. That didn't even cross my mind. This guy claims it to be indestructible though.. We should believe him, as this stock is The Hammer... oops.. |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 6:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shlouf]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: It's a shame the Gen 3 ACE..uh..I mean, The Hammer is being used on such a thing. Is that an actual reference to the Gen 3, or was that smoke coming out of one's ass? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: It's a shame the Gen 3 ACE..uh..I mean, The Hammer is being used on such a thing. Is that an actual reference to the Gen 3, or was that smoke coming out of one's ass? I've heard it called something similar before with some guys talking about the H on clonerifles Instagram. I think he said it was nicknamed the jaw breaker/buster or something like that. Originally Posted By Hunterex: Wonder how battered the slot notches are on it with the 50AE upper. 5.56 for how mild it is does a number on them over time. If he actually shot more than 1 box of ammo through it, that would be a valid concern. I'm guessing it's probably in pretty good condition though |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2021 3:29:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Well gents, I received the first of my parts to embark on my holland build. This is just a mock up with many changes yet to be made.
 Speaking of parts, due to a mishap with opticsplanet, I have a second brand new PRI tube and Recce rail on the way. If anyone is interested and wants to avoid the mess of dealing with opticsplanet hit me up before I return them. Hope that's okay to post here. I'm also looking for a lead on an AEM5 in stock. If anyone knows where I can order one, give me a heads up. |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 7:53:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Anyone have a TS30 3-9x36 on the Holland they can share of a pic of? Debating whether to go that route, do another 3.5-10 or maybe even give the SMRS a go.
TIA! |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 7:56:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a TS30 3-9x36 on the Holland they can share of a pic of? Debating whether to go that route, do another 3.5-10 or maybe even give the SMRS a go. TIA! Speaking for my own interests .. the Holland is shorter, cuts weight down a great deal, I personally would go with that 1-8 Bushnell. If I was better prepared I would be hitting up that one on the EE |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:15:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: Speaking for my own interests .. the Holland is shorter, cuts weight down a great deal, I personally would go with that 1-8 Bushnell. If I was better prepared I would be hitting up that one on the EE Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a TS30 3-9x36 on the Holland they can share of a pic of? Debating whether to go that route, do another 3.5-10 or maybe even give the SMRS a go. TIA! Speaking for my own interests .. the Holland is shorter, cuts weight down a great deal, I personally would go with that 1-8 Bushnell. If I was better prepared I would be hitting up that one on the EE Thanks for the feedback. I've being thinking on that a bit. The SMRS seems great but is apparently heavy. I've never held one but paper says 23oz. Plus I'd want to grab a Larue OBR 34mm which is another $300, LOL. Either way I'd be in for around the same money and similar weight in guessing. But again, never handled one so I could be mistaken. |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:19:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Thanks for the feedback. I've being thinking on that a bit. The SMRS seems great but is apparently heavy. I've never held one but paper says 23oz. Plus I'd want to grab a Larue OBR 34mm which is another $300, LOL. Either way I'd be in for around the same money and similar weight in guessing. But again, never handled one so I could be mistaken. I didnt even think about the weight of the SMRS until you mentioned it tbh.. but, FFP 1-8 speaks most to me. I just picked up another x24 recently though, so my glass budget for awhile is spent
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:30:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: I didnt even think about the weight of the SMRS until you mentioned it tbh.. but, FFP 1-8 speaks most to me. I just picked up another x24 recently though, so my glass budget for awhile is spent Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Thanks for the feedback. I've being thinking on that a bit. The SMRS seems great but is apparently heavy. I've never held one but paper says 23oz. Plus I'd want to grab a Larue OBR 34mm which is another $300, LOL. Either way I'd be in for around the same money and similar weight in guessing. But again, never handled one so I could be mistaken. I didnt even think about the weight of the SMRS until you mentioned it tbh.. but, FFP 1-8 speaks most to me. I just picked up another x24 recently though, so my glass budget for awhile is spent Sounds like someone may have grabbed a NF from EO? Congrats! |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:30:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kmcale]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Sounds like someone may have grabbed a NF from EO? Congrats! Nope, off ARF. Kind of by accident too actually  Attached FileThe first, less correct one got put on the H |
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Posted: 2/20/2021 8:53:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: Nope, off ARF. Kind of by accident too actually https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488238/20210220_183916_jpg-1834226.JPG The first, less correct one got put on the H Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kmcale: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Sounds like someone may have grabbed a NF from EO? Congrats! Nope, off ARF. Kind of by accident too actually https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/488238/20210220_183916_jpg-1834226.JPG The first, less correct one got put on the H That is down right badass! Am gonna give the SMRS a try. I already had grabbed ARMS #22 medium so gonna have to put those aside and find something 34mm. Hate to drop nearly $300 on a mount but the SMRS sure would look good in the OBR mount. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 1:43:43 AM EDT
[#43]
Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask.
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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:24:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask. I've only seen that single pic with that setup. |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 1:12:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: I've only seen that single pic with that setup. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WTFShane: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask. I've only seen that single pic with that setup. Thanks. That's all I've been able to find as well so I guess I'll be stuck with it since I'm going the SMRS route. I'm a pretty consistent kinda guy, I like to have common caliber in all my guns so they can share ammo, go for 30mm scopes so I have mounts that work for all of them, etc.. With the SMRS being 34mm it's thrown a wrench in the plan. Par for the cloning experience I suppose
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Posted: 2/23/2021 11:49:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox]
[#46]
Mocked up the upper tonight. Nothing tightened down yet. Was actually giddy when my wife sent me a text earlier saying I had a package from something called Precision Reflex 🙂
 Attached File |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 8:32:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Mocked up the upper tonight. Nothing tightened down yet. Was actually giddy when my wife sent me a text earlier saying I had a package from something called Precision Reflex 🙂 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/20210223_214732_jpg-1838963.JPG Looking good. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask. Not the latest and greatest, but Weapon Outfitters still has surplus KAC 34mm one-piece mounts for ~$250 (link). The one I received was brand-new and sealed. Were they used on the Mod H? Probably not in any great number (we have seen the KAC 30mm one-piece but that might have been a personally owned upper). Nonetheless, it's still a "clone-worthy" part. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:35:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cmcflex: Not the latest and greatest, but Weapon Outfitters still has surplus KAC 34mm one-piece mounts for ~$250 (link). The one I received was brand-new and sealed. Were they used on the Mod H? Probably not in any great number (we have seen the KAC 30mm one-piece but that might have been a personally owned upper). Nonetheless, it's still a "clone-worthy" part. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cmcflex: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask. Not the latest and greatest, but Weapon Outfitters still has surplus KAC 34mm one-piece mounts for ~$250 (link). The one I received was brand-new and sealed. Were they used on the Mod H? Probably not in any great number (we have seen the KAC 30mm one-piece but that might have been a personally owned upper). Nonetheless, it's still a "clone-worthy" part. Thanks for the lead, much appreciated! |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2021 2:43:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cmcflex]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Thanks for the lead, much appreciated! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By teamjawbox: Originally Posted By cmcflex: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Given that the SMRS is 34mm, which mounts/rings would be kosher with the Recce rail? Would the LT111 OBR be the only option? Was looking at NF 34mm rings but I didn't see them on the menu on page 1 so figured I'd ask. Not the latest and greatest, but Weapon Outfitters still has surplus KAC 34mm one-piece mounts for ~$250 (link). The one I received was brand-new and sealed. Were they used on the Mod H? Probably not in any great number (we have seen the KAC 30mm one-piece but that might have been a personally owned upper). Nonetheless, it's still a "clone-worthy" part. Thanks for the lead, much appreciated! Edit: I see you found it. Posted below for pic thread. 
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