User Panel
Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. View Quote The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792 Attached File |
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MACV-SOG nut.
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Originally Posted By edwin907: Anyone ever seen the box these fakes come in? One of the few things I have religiously kept is the original scope boxes, Leupold, Nightforce, Aimpoint USO, and that was probably a good decision. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By edwin907: Originally Posted By ArmyPilot12: If you don't trust the seller, call 1-800-Leupold and have them run the serial number. COUNTERFEIT WARNING Common counterfeit scopes purport to be Mark 4 riflescopes, VX-III riflescopes, Prismatic riflescopes, CQ/T riflescopes, LCO sights, and Deltapoint Pro sights. These counterfeits are regularly returned to us for service due to failures; however, counterfeit products are not manufactured by Leupold and are not covered by the Leupold Full Lifetime Guarantee. We do not provide service for counterfeit products. Anyone ever seen the box these fakes come in? One of the few things I have religiously kept is the original scope boxes, Leupold, Nightforce, Aimpoint USO, and that was probably a good decision. I have never seen the boxes but I would think paper is easier to fake than metal. I have seen a few fake Mk4s and, other than having the same serial numbers, you couldn't tell them from a real one externally. They were that good. |
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If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.
Samuel Adams |
Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch?
Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. Attached File |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Does anyone know the Leupold P/N for the 5.56 SPR 77gr M3 elevation turret found on the VariX III/Mk4 3.5-10x40?
Attached File |
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WTB:
Remington 870 ONG Colt M45A1 USMC Blue Blox/Green Box |
Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch? Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210323-200331_Photos_jpg-1877563.JPG View Quote Damn that looks good. |
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Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch? Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210323-200331_Photos_jpg-1877563.JPG View Quote There's a guy selling reprint manuals over at Snipershide. Don't know anything about them. Just saw his ad the other day. |
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-Things do not happen. Things are made to happen. -JFK
-Beware the fury of a patient man. -Thousands and thousands of laws....All for just ten commandments. -"alot" is not a word. |
Originally Posted By Engineer5: There's a guy selling reprint manuals over at Snipershide. Don't know anything about them. Just saw his ad the other day. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Engineer5: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch? Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210323-200331_Photos_jpg-1877563.JPG There's a guy selling reprint manuals over at Snipershide. Don't know anything about them. Just saw his ad the other day. Thanks, I pinged him about a week ago but no response. His original post was a few months old so maybe he's out of them or done for now. Figured I'd see if anyone had a lead on another source. Much appreciated. |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Originally Posted By JonnyMoses: Does anyone know the Leupold P/N for the 5.56 SPR 77gr M3 elevation turret found on the VariX III/Mk4 3.5-10x40? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/265309/Screen_Shot_2021-03-23_at_6_18_02_PM_png-1877585.JPG View Quote I don't think one actually existed, early vari-x 3.5-10x40, had the 168 308 dial, ts30 ts30a2 a2 and mk4 3-9x36 had the 62 grain dial issued. I know someone posted a pic of a 77 grain m3 dial off I believe was a USMC rifle. The 2.5-8 had 77 dials not sure whether they came that way or were unit purchases. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch? Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210323-200331_Photos_jpg-1877563.JPG View Quote Came together nicely. Is that a TAS stock adapter I see? |
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Originally Posted By tamboi: I don't think one actually existed, early vari-x 3.5-10x40, had the 168 308 dial, ts30 ts30a2 a2 and mk4 3-9x36 had the 62 grain dial issued. I know someone posted a pic of a 77 grain m3 dial off I believe was a USMC rifle. The 2.5-8 had 77 dials not sure whether they came that way or were unit purchases. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/20210323_203015_jpg-1877762.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/Screenshot_20210323-202404_Chrome_jpg-1877765.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/20210323_203058_jpg-1877767.JPG View Quote I should've rephrased that. The pic I posted is off a 67950 which is a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 3.5-10x40 Ilum TMR, however the calibrated turret should fit VariX III/Early Mk4 3.5-10x40 non illuminated, as they were both M3 elevation turrets. So I guess what I meant to say is what is the part number for the 5.56 SPR 77gr. elevation turret for the 67950? Was hoping someone here had ordered one once upon a time, similar to how individuals had purchased the 112635 Mk12 Mod1 Mk262 turrets, but seems like Im going to have to call them tomorrow and get the run around. Does anyone run a VariX III/Mk4 3.5-10x40 non Illum FFP Mildot on their Mk12? Would it be correct? |
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WTB:
Remington 870 ONG Colt M45A1 USMC Blue Blox/Green Box |
Originally Posted By kmcale: Came together nicely. Is that a TAS stock adapter I see? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By kmcale: Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Anyone have a mod 0 manual they'd part with or anyone been thinking about printing a batch? Pic for pic thread.and DStepec's beautiful sling. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210323-200331_Photos_jpg-1877563.JPG Came together nicely. Is that a TAS stock adapter I see? Thanks! Its getting closer but still got work to do. That is indeed a TAS adapter thanks to Hunterex!(and Arms swan sleeve and OG uncle mike's front swivel he hooked me up with too). |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Originally Posted By ringer706: Another quick update on the bore guides... First things first, the shop had an emergency job pop up for one of their big oil and gas customers so we had a brief delay. They're about done with all of the boring operations, and will be moving on to exterior profiling and cross drilling operations soon. We should see the machining done next week now instead of the end of this week. On a more exciting note, I was able to get over and do testing and setup with the engraver on a few of the test samples that I've got. Took a few rounds of trial and error to get perfect but I'm really pleased with how well it turned out. We couldn't find an exact match for the font, so we wound up importing the reference image I had into their system and actually tracing it for a perfect match. The groove is about 5-10 thou deep and looks great. Still trying to determine whether we engrave then anodize or anodize then engrave, but either way, very pleased with the results. First, here's the reference photo we were using... https://imgur.com/dxGe6wJ.jpg Our first few attempts, size and font weren't quite right https://imgur.com/fjrSNhF.jpg Third time's a charm. This is after we drew the font from the original https://imgur.com/WGO2lZC.jpg Here's the complete results https://imgur.com/E0OGA4m.jpg And last just a big plug for the guys doing the work, Ident Markings in Rockwall, TX. Really great operation, they do all kinds of firearm engravings whether it's 80% builds or SBR markings. They have an FFL and can receive guns/parts for engraving. They do a ton of clone work including my Mk18 lower. If you need to have laser engraving done, give them a call. https://imgur.com/M0vPAd2.jpg View Quote Looks great! Thanks again for taking on the project! |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Anyone have a line on a quality 16" Ops Inc contour barrel that's available immediately? Looking for Criterion chrome lined, but stainless is fine as well. Putting together a Mod H.
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Creator of the most viewed EE thread in ARFCOM history.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Weird-EE-Read-post-count/5-2100843/?page=1 |
Strength Determination Merciless Forever
PA, USA
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Originally Posted By tamboi: I don't think one actually existed, early vari-x 3.5-10x40, had the 168 308 dial, ts30 ts30a2 a2 and mk4 3-9x36 had the 62 grain dial issued. I know someone posted a pic of a 77 grain m3 dial off I believe was a USMC rifle. The 2.5-8 had 77 dials not sure whether they came that way or were unit purchases. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/20210323_203015_jpg-1877762.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/Screenshot_20210323-202404_Chrome_jpg-1877765.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28561/20210323_203058_jpg-1877767.JPG View Quote Not all, but the majority of the Vari-X's were the 62gr turrets like on the Ts30 and Ts30a2 as well. |
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My vote on the bore guides is anodize first. Engrave second to get the raw aluminum/anodizing look in the numbers like the original. Your anodized/engraved lower has the correct look and was engraved after anodizing.
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Originally Posted By ringer706: Another quick update on the bore guides... snip And last just a big plug for the guys doing the work, Ident Markings in Rockwall, TX. Really great operation, they do all kinds of firearm engravings whether it's 80% builds or SBR markings. They have an FFL and can receive guns/parts for engraving. They do a ton of clone work including my Mk18 lower. If you need to have laser engraving done, give them a call. https://imgur.com/M0vPAd2.jpg View Quote I have used Ident Marking a couple times for NFA stuff and they are outstanding to deal with and appreciate their customers. |
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If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.
Samuel Adams |
Originally Posted By Acetomco: My vote on the bore guides is anodize first. Engrave second to get the raw aluminum/anodizing look in the numbers like the original. Your anodized/engraved lower has the correct look and was engraved after anodizing. View Quote The issue we may run into with that is since we're deep engraving with the laser, we don't want to burn off any of the anodizing around the numbers as well. If we engrave then anodize, the numbers would be black, but it's engraved deep enough that you can always grease/paint/chalk fill the numbers if you'd like. |
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I missed the 4th and 5th pre-orders, but Int. Mil co opened up a 6th run, possibly final run of the GM or H&R A1 100% lowers. My GM is going to anodizing this week and I should have it early next month, purchased in December of 2020.
If anyone is looking to plan for the future and needs an A1 lower, get in before they are gone and AR's are banned. I guess that's not hyperbole now considering whats going on. https://intlmilco.com/ |
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The bore guides look great. Engraving before or after anodizing is fine with me. The bore guide will will not know the difference and do it's job. I am game though. You can pull my three and anodize first before engraving just to see how they turn out. I'm fine with a bit of burn around the numbers. If it happens and will still take them.
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Originally Posted By JLAudio: I missed the 4th and 5th pre-orders, but Int. Mil co opened up a 6th run, possibly final run of the GM or H&R A1 100% lowers. My GM is going to anodizing this week and I should have it early next month, purchased in December of 2020. If anyone is looking to plan for the future and needs an A1 lower, get in before they are gone and AR's are banned. I guess that's not hyperbole now considering whats going on. https://intlmilco.com/ View Quote Hmmm..... the temptation has never been greater |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
Originally Posted By JLAudio: I missed the 4th and 5th pre-orders, but Int. Mil co opened up a 6th run, possibly final run of the GM or H&R A1 100% lowers. My GM is going to anodizing this week and I should have it early next month, purchased in December of 2020. If anyone is looking to plan for the future and needs an A1 lower, get in before they are gone and AR's are banned. I guess that's not hyperbole now considering whats going on. https://intlmilco.com/ View Quote Snagged a GM for my Mk12. My block 2 build was getting close to surpassing the cost of my Mod 1, so had to get something to keep the Mk12 in the lead. By the way, should legislation change the legal status of AR15's before this batch ships, Russian Paint will ship an 80% or refund your purchase. |
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Looking for the unicorn of unicorns. If anyone has a ARMS #38 SPR PEQ 2-3 Top Rail please let me know. I’m looking for one for a true Mk12 Mod 0 build.
Any help would be extremely appreciated!!! |
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Anybody have a LEUPOLD MARK 4 TS-30 A2 3-9x36 or a 3.5-10x40 M3 Illuminated they want to sell? About to pull the trigger on one, but seeing if one of you guys are moving one.
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Thanks,
jkacg1 ************************ “The right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.” - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
Brownells is showing Badger MK12 gas blocks in stock as of today for those looking.
Edited to add Operation Parts now as well. |
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Originally Posted By jkacg1: Anybody have a LEUPOLD MARK 4 TS-30 A2 3-9x36 or a 3.5-10x40 M3 Illuminated they want to sell? About to pull the trigger on one, but seeing if one of you guys are moving one. View Quote If you're going for a Mod H, I have a Mk11 takeoff Vari-X/Mark 4 3.5-10x40 M3 non illuminated with Premier Reticles FFP Gen2 Mildot reticle. Have a 5.56mm SPR 77gr. M3 elevation turret for it on the way as well. |
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WTB:
Remington 870 ONG Colt M45A1 USMC Blue Blox/Green Box |
Thanks,
jkacg1 ************************ “The right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.” - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
After reading everything I could find via a Google search for this forum on replacement foam for the Pelican 1700 case. Is there a current source for replacement foam similar to what was used in the USGI issued cases?
My search and reading through the various pages in this thread said there was not a well liked current foam source for Mk12 Mod1 pattern foam with the proper cut outs. It appears I may just need to try my hand at cutting it out myself but I would like to start with the proper style foam. I started late in the game and missed the surplus Mk12 cases when they were more readily available. Thanks in advance, Ross |
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Originally Posted By TW56: After reading everything I could find via a Google search for this forum on replacement foam for the Pelican 1700 case. Is there a current source for replacement foam similar to what was used in the USGI issued cases? My search and reading through the various pages in this thread said there was not a well liked current foam source for Mk12 Mod1 pattern foam with the proper cut outs. It appears I may just need to try my hand at cutting it out myself but I would like to start with the proper style foam. I started late in the game and missed the surplus Mk12 cases when they were more readily available. Thanks in advance, Ross View Quote You're best off looking for a milsurp, or cut your own. The only one I know of that sells mk12 cut foam is, iirc, cobra foam(?), and that is one that many have said to avoid. I've seen someone on other pages mention something about cutting his own on a cnc water jet type of deal, I do not know if this has happened though. @Hunterex may know the answer to that, as he is on the same CRA page I saw that on |
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Originally Posted By TW56: After reading everything I could find via a Google search for this forum on replacement foam for the Pelican 1700 case. Is there a current source for replacement foam similar to what was used in the USGI issued cases? My search and reading through the various pages in this thread said there was not a well liked current foam source for Mk12 Mod1 pattern foam with the proper cut outs. It appears I may just need to try my hand at cutting it out myself but I would like to start with the proper style foam. I started late in the game and missed the surplus Mk12 cases when they were more readily available. Thanks in advance, Ross View Quote Try this post. It's years old and I don't know if the info is still valid. I almost went this route before I found my case. https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Official-Mk12-Mod0-Mod1-ModH-Photo-and-Discussion-Thread/118-520524/?page=699#i7268065 ETA Just tried the supplied login/PW and they still work. |
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If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.
Samuel Adams |
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Originally Posted By nmxdavenn: Mod h got its first piggy last night. https://i.ibb.co/yyHgZnL/6675-CB67-927-F-498-C-9-DA9-F4-B85851-E127.jpg https://i.ibb.co/k09Mzc5/A9245-BBA-BC18-4-AFF-80-E6-BE14160-EF295.jpg View Quote Warms my heart. |
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Originally Posted By CPshooter1: Hey y'all, I finally found a real Mk12 take-off barrel and made some interesting observations. Pictures are below. I have some questions as well: First and foremost, this is a Rev 3 barrel for the Mk12 Mod 1, but it has flats milled for the set screw type Mod 0 gas block. Anyone know why or how this barrel ended up with milled flats AND dimples for the low-profile Mod 1 gas block set screws? Anyone seen other Rev 3/Mod 1 barrels like this? FYI - I also have a Rev 2 barrel that is the same way. Moving on to picture #2 below, you can see a spacer that PRI included with their front sight/gas block assembly. This is clearly there to align the set screws on the gas block with the milled flats and the rearmost dimple on the underside of the barrel that pulls the FSB down to seal around the gas port. Without this spacer, the FSB makes contact with that rear step/shoulder and then the set screws and gas ports don't align properly. You can see in picture #3, the FSB makes contact with the OpsInc/Allen Engineering collar because of this spacer being there and there is not enough room for the FSB to fit in between the spacer and the collar. I was warned that with a real Mk12 barrel, I would likely need to have the collar turned on a lathe to make it a bit shorter or else the collar would hit the FSB. Now I understand why. So here's why I'm trying to figure this out. I am planning to send this barrel in to Compass Lake Engineering so they can reverse engineer it and make me a new barrel that is true to the original Mk12 spec. I could be overlooking something obvious, but it seems to me that if they simply mill the flats, dimple, and gas port a bit further to the rear, everything would then align properly and I wouldn't need to use the spacer or modify the collar. I don't imagine moving the gas port to the rear by ~1/16" will have any negative impact on the gas system... Does that seem like a viable solution to the problem? Why the hell didn't Crane, PRI, and OpsInc design everything properly to begin with? In other words, who screwed up here? *edit* It seems I overlooked the length of the gas tube and position of the gas tube roll pin! This could be an issue as I'm not exactly sure what the consequence would be of having the gas tube further inside the gas key. Perhaps it would be easier and less troublesome to move the step/shoulder for the collar forward a smidge and then increase the OAL of the barrel by that same amount so I'm not reducing the number of turns the suppressor will make on the brake? Thanks in advance for any insights or suggestions you can provide! https://i.imgur.com/IT35Up9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Jg5Nxe6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/38UXLFg.jpg View Quote Edit: I misread the post. |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Originally Posted By CPshooter1: First and foremost, this is a Rev 3 barrel for the Mk12 Mod 1, but it has flats milled for the set screw type Mod 0 gas block. Anyone know why or how this barrel ended up with milled flats AND dimples for the low-profile Mod 1 gas block set screws? Anyone seen other Rev 3/Mod 1 barrels like this? FYI - I also have a Rev 2 barrel that is the same way. They were a shared barrel between the Gen 3 and Mod 1s. After the Gen 3 ceased to exist, but the Mod 1s continued the flats were dropped. Moving on to picture #2 below, you can see a spacer that PRI included with their front sight/gas block assembly. This is clearly there to align the set screws on the gas block with the milled flats and the rearmost dimple on the underside of the barrel that pulls the FSB down to seal around the gas port. Without this spacer, the FSB makes contact with that rear step/shoulder and then the set screws and gas ports don't align properly. You can see in picture #3, the FSB makes contact with the OpsInc/Allen Engineering collar because of this spacer being there and there is not enough room for the FSB to fit in between the spacer and the collar. I was warned that with a real Mk12 barrel, I would likely need to have the collar turned on a lathe to make it a bit shorter or else the collar would hit the FSB. Now I understand why. PRi sights from that era were made to sit deeper on the barrel. The gas port is drilled at the front of the leg, unlike later sights like yours where it's centered. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CPshooter1: First and foremost, this is a Rev 3 barrel for the Mk12 Mod 1, but it has flats milled for the set screw type Mod 0 gas block. Anyone know why or how this barrel ended up with milled flats AND dimples for the low-profile Mod 1 gas block set screws? Anyone seen other Rev 3/Mod 1 barrels like this? FYI - I also have a Rev 2 barrel that is the same way. They were a shared barrel between the Gen 3 and Mod 1s. After the Gen 3 ceased to exist, but the Mod 1s continued the flats were dropped. Moving on to picture #2 below, you can see a spacer that PRI included with their front sight/gas block assembly. This is clearly there to align the set screws on the gas block with the milled flats and the rearmost dimple on the underside of the barrel that pulls the FSB down to seal around the gas port. Without this spacer, the FSB makes contact with that rear step/shoulder and then the set screws and gas ports don't align properly. You can see in picture #3, the FSB makes contact with the OpsInc/Allen Engineering collar because of this spacer being there and there is not enough room for the FSB to fit in between the spacer and the collar. I was warned that with a real Mk12 barrel, I would likely need to have the collar turned on a lathe to make it a bit shorter or else the collar would hit the FSB. Now I understand why. PRi sights from that era were made to sit deeper on the barrel. The gas port is drilled at the front of the leg, unlike later sights like yours where it's centered. Attached File 04ish clamp sight over a takeoff Gen I sight. Originally Posted By kmcale: You're best off looking for a milsurp, or cut your own. The only one I know of that sells mk12 cut foam is, iirc, cobra foam(?), and that is one that many have said to avoid. I've seen someone on other pages mention something about cutting his own on a cnc water jet type of deal, I do not know if this has happened though. @Hunterex may know the answer to that, as he is on the same CRA page I saw that on I haven't been keeping too up on the progress of that like I should. Friend of mine has an earlier example that the fellow on CRA cut and it looks pretty good. |
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Originally Posted By jkacg1: Anybody have a LEUPOLD MARK 4 TS-30 A2 3-9x36 or a 3.5-10x40 M3 Illuminated they want to sell? About to pull the trigger on one, but seeing if one of you guys are moving one. View Quote What did you end up doing with the one you found and was there multiple? Not trying to steal your purchase but if you passed, I might move on it. Also starting the hunt for one today. Would love any insight from anyone that might be able to track one down or sell. |
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Originally Posted By deadpunch: What did you end up doing with the one you found and was there multiple? Not trying to steal your purchase but if you passed, I might move on it. Also starting the hunt for one today. Would love any insight from anyone that might be able to track one down or sell. View Quote I totally missed it. I put an offer in on it and posted here. When I went back to raise my offer, it was gone. |
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Thanks,
jkacg1 ************************ “The right to defend one’s home and one’s person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law.” - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
Oh I’m sorry, I thought this was America!
MI, USA
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Trying to stay away from ARMS rings. Were nightforce rings or unimounts ever used with the NF 2.5-10x24?
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Oh I’m sorry, I thought this was America!
MI, USA
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Originally Posted By Rothperson87: Should’ve been more specific, doing a mod 1. I want to use an A1 fixed stock but I can’t get enough eye relief with normal rings. View Quote Attached File Attached File Attached File Ended up using A110 for mine, and eye relief was great for me. You are taller than I though, so I can't say for certain it would be the same for you. I also admit to going the A110 route due to a scope I purchased that had them on from previous owner Attached File |
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Got the boys out today. The PRI Douglas barrel on the Mod H build is an outright tack driver. Not that the 1/7 on the Mod 0 isn't, I just think the Wylde barrel liked the 62gr ammo I was shooting better. Very happy with both of these builds.
Praise the sun... Attached File |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Originally Posted By teamjawbox: Got the boys out today. The PRI Douglas barrel on the Mod H build is an outright tack driver. Not that the 1/7 on the Mod 0 isn't, I just think the Wylde barrel liked the 62gr ammo I was shooting better. Very happy with both of these builds. Praise the sun... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/343681/SmartSelect_20210328-170349_Photos_jpg-1883968.JPG View Quote I got that reference |
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Welp, picked up a OG mod 0 with authenticity and all. What the means is I'm going to put up on EE a listing of a PACKAGE deal of some of the things I'm willing to part with that I had in the works. I don't want to deal with parting out all this and sending them all across the country to different places. No idea what I'm going to ask yet mains because of the #32. Honestly, will probably be a best offer deal for it all in one swoop. But a sneak peak will be the following:
1. ARMS Wingless #38 spr-peq-2-3 2. GEN III PRI FF Handguard RAW 3. ARMS #40 wingless 4. PRI FSB (cross bolt) 5. ARMS #22 wingless high 6. ARMS #22 TRC w/rail Sharing in here first because y'all have been very supportive. If you're interested in a package deal and want to offer something then IM me and we can talk. If you only email me about the #32, I'm going to assume you don't like money and are going to offer something crazy for it. And because I know the first question will be "send pics of ARMS #32", I'll just show now. The rest of the pics will be in the EE listing when it goes up. FWIW - I'm looking for a Knight's Armament M4 Match FF RAS, rifle length (now called the SR15/16 Match FF RAS) and/or a A1/A2 stock buffer and sprint kit, NightForce 2.5-10x24, if you wanted to package that in. Again, please IM me if you're interested as my intent is not to lock of this thread but merely to let y'all know first I'm going to put some stuff up for sale before I actually put it on EE. Attached File Attached File |
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@ deadpunch,
That's a nice kit there! I am curious if you happen to know when A.R.M.S. started putting the swan logo on the PEQ rail. Also, I thought the early examples were supposed to have "wingless" swan logos vs. no swan logo at all. Just curious which one is actually most "authentic" for a late Mod 0 build. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By CPshooter1: @ deadpunch, That's a nice kit there! I am curious if you happen to know when A.R.M.S. started putting the swan logo on the PEQ rail. Also, I thought the early examples were supposed to have "wingless" swan logos vs. no swan logo at all. Just curious which one is actually most "authentic" for a late Mod 0 build. Thanks! View Quote Deployed/issued late Mod 0. Rubber duck on the PEQ sleeve. Credit to Casca174 on SH. Attached File |
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"Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?"
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Anybody have any out of the way sources for an AEM5 threaded 5/8-24? I have looked in the obvious places that I know about and they are all OOS.
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Humor died of COVID19 |
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