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Posted: 12/20/2010 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0: The Recce platform was something that sprung up within the NSW and 5th SFG communities that first became the Special Purpose Receiver built by Crane, which was supposed to be installed on any M4 lower. After a time when the perfect storm of the users wanting a match-grade trigger and the bolt-bounce issue was identified, the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into a complete rifle that was type-classified as the Mk12. Mk12: A BRIEF HISTORY (as authored by "LGT" & "FL") Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) Scoped versions of the M16 rifle existed as far back as the 1960s. Like nearly all historic military rifles, the M16 went through decades of efforts to improve its accuracy, both in the military and civilian marksmanship communities. The need for the SPR dates back to the late 1980s and early 1990s when the 7.62mm M21 sniper rifle, a semi-automatic weapon of Vietnam vintage, was replaced by the M24 sniper rifle, a bolt action weapon. The M24 was originally specified to be a .300 Winchester Magnum, but the Army decided to field it in 7.62 NATO for a variety of economic reasons. This left the M24 in the unenviable position of being the worst of both worlds in the eyes of snipers at the time, since it lost the fast-shooing, semiautomatic capability of the M21, but did not gain the range advantage of the .300WM. This compromise left a vacant requirement for a fast-shooting semi-automatic sniper rifle. This need was most apparent in the US Army Special Forces (SF) community, since the other commands within the Special Operations Forces structure filled that need with Knights Armament Corporation's SR-25 sniper rifle. Army SF, being prohibited by its leadership from procuring the SR-25, sought the next best alternative, namely a Special Purpose Receiver (SPR) kit to convert the Army SF M4 carbines into highly accurate rifles. In late 1998, at the request of SFC Steve Holland of 5th Special Forces Group, and the approval of the SOPMOD joint IPT, the Special Operations Peculiar Modifications (SOPMOD) Program Manager, Troy Smith, authorized the purchase of 5 sets of commercial items as an SPR experiment. The original requirement was for USASOC, mainly the SF Groups, as WARCOM had the MK11, 7.62mm system. Once the SPR requirement was developed and demonstrated through experimentation, most of the other commands in USSOCOM added themselves to the Basis of Issue Plan (BOIP). The USSOCOM requirement for the SPR, with improved ammunition, was approved in July 1999, as part of the SOPMOD Kit, Operational Requirements Document, Version 5 (ORD 5). Further initial development included several variants of the SPR and new ammunition that were compatible with the M4 carbine's lower receiver. It was found that standard issue M855 5.56mm ammunition was not consistent enough to meet the requirement. In 2000, based on an upgrade requirement to provide a match-grade trigger to the design, Mr. Paul Miller, the SPR project manager, discovered an opportunity to pick through over 15,000 M16A1s that had been sent to Crane for destruction. Realizing that these M16A1 rifles, some of which were virtually new, could be used as "free lumber" to build full SPR weapons, Paul selected several thousand rifles to be set aside for the new SPR project. The SPR underwent a minor but significant name change, with the R having originally stood for "Receiver" now standing for "Rifle" The new weapon system was worthless without a matching round of ammunition to obtain the performance required. The PEO-SP USSOCOM authorized the new round that became Mk262 as part of the Mk12 system in August 2000. Paul Miller and his SPR team refined the 77-grain prototype ammunition and built approximately 124 SPR Rifles in the summer of 2001. These were finished just in time to ship out to Army SF in late October 2001, to be used in the first invasion of Afghanistan. The SPR rifles were extremely well-received, and the SOF combat units ordered hundreds more. In May 2002, USSOCOM removed the Mk12 and other complete weapons projects from the SOPMOD Program and placed them under the newly-formed USSOCOM Weapons Program. The fielded weapons included two versions (Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle Mod0 and Mod1). Fielding has since been structured for Mk12 Mod1 Special Purpose Rifle only. This rifle is used by Joint USSOCOM Commands and the USMC in combination with M262 (AA53, 77 grain) ammunition. Formal fielding of the full-rate production version of the Mk12 rifle and ammunition occurred in May 2003 and was completed in FY '04. In 2012, as the decade of war on terrorism was winding down and the SCAR weapon system began replacing the requirement for the Mk12, USSOCOM and Naval Special Warfare divested themselves of the Mk12 weapons system, and the Mk12 is now being looked at to fill a Designated Marksman Role within Brown Water Navy commands. View Quote * * * * * * * * * * The following parts lists and substitution parts was compiled by lancecriminal86 over the course of a LOT of research. Read up and pay attention! Below are the 100% .mil-spec parts lists to build a true SPR or Mk12 clone. Some of these parts are no longer manufactured and will require much effort and money to locate through forums and online brokers. Keep in mind the rifles were built off donor M16A1s, hence the prevalent A1 parts in the lower receivers and the BCGs. They were also first configured using parts available from 1998-2004, and most are inferior in some ways to newer designs. If this bothers you too much, STOP NOW. The rifles were issued as a kit in a Pelican 1700 case with cutouts. The kits included the rifle with suppressor, optic, bipod, an Eagle TAS-1 UMSS sling (unobtanium and also absolute crap), with a Dewey 1-piece cleaning rod plus Otis cleaning kit, and a cutout for magazines. An operator's manual was also included, however these have not been officially released for public consumption. However, the manuals are out there, and some companies building Mk12 uppers include one. Whether these are official .mil operator's manuals or specially made is currently unclear as the manual itself still contains language that it is not for distribution. - Alternate .mil-spec parts due to NFA, NLA parts, or changes in name/markings for current production in [brackets] - Extra notes about parts or availability are in (parenthesis) LOWER Lower receivers were standard across the SPR/Mk12 variants and the only variations would be between grips, stocks, and buffers. Most were marked either Colt or GM Hydramatic. All other parts were the same in regards to the lower parts. One caveat is the trigger, as the program originally selected the Knight's Armament 2-stage Full Auto Match trigger. Later on, some issues regarding negligent discharges occurred, and Geissele SSF triggers ultimately found their way into the Mk12 family. Whether 100% of all Mk12s eventually received the Geissele trigger isn't clear, so either is acceptable.
The upper receivers, which ultimately differentiate the four variants of the Mk12, have the most variation between each other. Early SPR/Mod0
ModH, Mod "Holland"
Naturally, once these rifles were issued to units, operators and even Marines used various non-issued parts. Here is a short summary of what has been seen: Early SPR/Mod0: Both Leupold 3.5-10x40mm and 3-9x36mm scopes have been used. Many have had carbine stocks like the old CAR-style, enhanced M4, SOPMOD Gen I, or even the Tactical DuoStock swapped on. Mod1: One 3rd SFG-issued rifle pictured with SSgt Robert J. Miller (MoH recipient) used an A.R.M.S #36 S-EX 5.56mm rail, and a Leupold M3X 10x fixed-power scope, possibly pulled from an M-24 or SR-25 rifle. Another has been seen with a Magpul PRS, LaRue mount, and a Premier Reticles 3-15x used by an AMU shooter, and a similar rifle was pictured on a FOB in a very posed-looking photo. Further, a USMC-issued Mod1 was seen using #22 Medium rings instead of High rings, and a LaRue mount has been spotted as well. Grips have varied from the usual A1, A2, and ERGO, and at least one Magpul MIAD has been used. As with the Mod0s, carbine stocks like the SOPMOD and M4 have been used on Mod1s. ModH: The Mod "Holland" was already a small-batch configuration, but even as soon as they were issued to 5th SFG units, some Ace SOCOM stocks were replaced with Magpul ACS and CTR stocks. Optics are basically anything existing in the unit's inventory, from S&B ShortDots still in the system, the 3-9x and 3.5-10x Leupold scopes from earlier Mod0s, and there's even a photo of an ELCAN on a Mod1 floating around. No non-magnified optics like EOTechs or regular Aimpoint M2/M4s, but Micros have been seen on offset mounts. Backup iron sights, as a whole, were almost entirely left unmounted. Grips were again the same usual selection. Parts Alternatives for Clone Building Many parts are rare, expensive, and/or both. Despite this, there are some alternatives to a 100% pure clone that will still provide the same visual look and performance. While not a museum-grade clone, most would be hard-pressed to discern the difference. Just know there are those of us out there that will haze and peer-pressure you into further moving your build towards a true clone. Barrel: Popular options are the White Oak Armament SPR barrel (rifle gas), BCM's SPR barrel, Rainier's Match and Ultramatch offerings (ensure it's the SPR contour with 12th Model profile), Ballistic Advantage's SPR barrel. Compass Lake Engineering can also spin a Mk12 profiled barrel with a Criterion chrome-lined blank, or even a Krieger, which was one of the original contenders for the program. The DPMS Mk12 barrels are NOT properly profiled for a clone. Optics & Rings: In the case of the Leupold 3-9x or 3.5-10x, it's generally okay to go for a non-illuminated version of either, sometimes with M1 or other turrets and reticles. As far as the NightForce scope, the 2.5-10x24mm is not generally released to the public anymore (with one recent exception through Sniper's Hide), so many use the 32mm or even 42mm versions with the #22 High rings. As for the rings, any of the recent produced A.R.M.S. #22s with the lever-stop humps are functionally the same, the desire for non-lever-stops is purely aesthetic when going for the most authentic look. As LaRue LT-104s have been seen in use, it is justifiable to use one depending on whether you have a specific rifle you want to copy, or even just if you absolutely cannot acquire #22 High rings. A.R.M.S. #38 SWAN Sleeve: The #38 family of sleeves are no longer available. Finding them secondhand usually cost $250-$300 easy, more for rarer early variants. Fortunately, PRi's copies of the sleeves look and function almost identically, with minor visual differences. PRi and other builders supply these currently for complete Mod0 builds. FSB: While the set-screw version of PRi's FSB is spec, most use the cross-bolt, clamp-style version. They are extremely robust, and when aligned and torqued, have been shown to hold strong enough that you'll probably shear your barrel extension pin or upper before it budges. This is mainly how Mod0 uppers are supplied by most vendors, including PRi themselves. Suppressor, Brake/Collar: Diverging from the OPS Inc. or AEM brake and collar will get you MAJOR flak. Trust me, I've been running an AAC SPR/M4 for years now and it took a LONG time to not get clubbed every time I posted it. The Allen Engineering AEM5 is basically the current production of the OPS Inc. 12th Model, as they were originally made by Ron Allen and his team in the first place. Only minor differences separate original OPS Inc. cans from AE cans, and these are only obvious to trained eyes. As far as the rest, you can swap Colt parts out for any other .mil-spec parts, like BCM, DD, CMT, etc. Any billet uppers/lowers, funky BCG coatings, extended bolt releases, etc. are extremely frowned upon. Remember, once you start going down the path of building a "better" rifle rather than what was spec, you're quickly beyond clone territory and would have been better off building a custom 16" or 20" rifle. Cloning is generally viewed as all-in or not at all. * * * * * * * * * * Complete Mk12 Mod0 / Mod1 Uppers Bravo Company Manufacturing High Caliber Sales Precision Reflex Inc. Specific Mk12 Tech Augee's side-by-side comparison of the original ARMS SWAN Sleeve and PRI reproduction PEQ Sleeves: bottom of p136 KOBK's side-by-side comparison of PRI Gen I, II, and III handguards, and Gen I and Gen II FSBs, and SWANs: middle of p137 Augee's Mod1 gas block tech: top half of p357 Glass1's Early Mod0 photo breakdown: middle of p449 tamboi's Leupold Vari-X, TS30, and TS30A2 scope history/lineage, and part numbers, p.792 * * * * * * * * * * As of 16 May 2024, Ron Allen is still making custom parts for his suppressors: View Quote * * * * * * * * * * Attached File |
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MACV-SOG nut.
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Originally Posted By HARMS4X: I did 1/8. I think this was the barrel I bought from you. View Quote |
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Creator of the most viewed EE thread in ARFCOM history.
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Originally Posted By cdholmes: Nice! I’m just trying to figure out what barrel length I would need for the Ops Inc profile with an MK18 RIS II to make the can sit flush. I believe CLE will make me a custom barrel if I send my rail in. View Quote |
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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Razor Core, Magtech, Norma.....all three are easily found and I'm in the market to buy a few boxes to try in the Holland. What's everyone's favorite?
(I'm probably going to buy at least one box of each and try them all, but hey, why not throw it out for discussion?) |
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I've been able to get hits out to 900 with Razorcore and MagTech 77gr. I think I could have hit at 1,000, but I couldn't see where my bullets were landing. Plus my Leupold was maxed out and I was already using mil holds at 900.
I just buy whichever one is cheaper. Usually the Razorcore is cheaper when Midway puts them on sale for 50 cents per round with free shipping. Either one is going to work great for the rifles capabilities. |
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Obliged fellas.
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CBC has been slightly more accurate for me over the razorcore in two rifles I’ve fired both in. A 10.3” colt fbi barrel, and a 18” CLE Douglas spr barrel.
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SE, i like it. We need to shoot sometime
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Originally Posted By cheekibreeki:
Since I decided a while back to keep this scope and have pulled the auctions, figured I'd put the pics here for possible reference: http://i.imgur.com/Q1ilkRnl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ywMApmbl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/opJrAvul.jpg http://i.imgur.com/njzrW8ul.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nhdE4kQl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6jBcHnOl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ItuWUwtl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/XmIZzl7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Ce0bAiUl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/wAYLMuFl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZAHjkLkl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QIyVPC9l.jpg Also, some range time and visitors (safe...for now). http://i.imgur.com/nY3YC2pl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/FJHFlC7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/38ximBTl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/C6ZVd3ql.jpg View Quote |
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Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Razor Core, Magtech, Norma.....all three are easily found and I'm in the market to buy a few boxes to try in the Holland. What's everyone's favorite? (I'm probably going to buy at least one box of each and try them all, but hey, why not throw it out for discussion?) View Quote |
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For those running ACE stocks, is sanding or otherwise modifying the foam for charging handle clearance normal?
I’ve been at it for about 20 minutes and it’s a lot smooother than it was. |
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i have a rifle that loces the Federal 262 also and they stopped making it!
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Neither is 100% just yet, but the badger gas block and tube arrived today (nice of badger to make a set screw gas block that doesn't come with set screws ) for the mod 1, and i just tossed a couple charging handles on the guns to take em to the range. Ace SOCOM (allegedly gen 1) arrives tomorrow, and I'll just use the YHM can on the mod 1 for a bit.
Obviously still need gasbusters for both, bottom rail on the H, LT-104 for each (not keen on arms rings), and the brake/collar on the mod 1, which will eventually go on an A2 lower. I'm too tall for the A1. 20180922_194204 by Armed Ferret, on Flickr |
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Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Neither is 100% just yet, but the badger gas block and tube arrived today (nice of badger to make a set screw gas block that doesn't come with set screws ) for the mod 1, and i just tossed a couple charging handles on the guns to take em to the range. Ace SOCOM (allegedly gen 1) arrives tomorrow, and I'll just use the YHM can on the mod 1 for a bit. Obviously still need gasbusters for both, bottom rail on the H, LT-104 for each (not keen on arms rings), and the brake/collar on the mod 1, which will eventually go on an A2 lower. I'm too tall for the A1. https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1907/30979559928_072be26375_h.jpg 20180922_194204 by Armed Ferret, on Flickr View Quote |
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Originally Posted By SSOUNN:
Just noticed my floors are Ashy AF.. lol https://i.postimg.cc/dQx68Ytp/05134_EA7-_FE90-41_EB-_B3_F4-_DA8_F5_D90_C2_C8.jpg View Quote what length barrel on the bottom rifle? |
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Originally Posted By Honda4828:
NICE what length barrel on the bottom rifle? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Honda4828:
Originally Posted By SSOUNN:
Just noticed my floors are Ashy AF.. lol https://i.postimg.cc/dQx68Ytp/05134_EA7-_FE90-41_EB-_B3_F4-_DA8_F5_D90_C2_C8.jpg what length barrel on the bottom rifle? |
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Originally Posted By 5pt56:
In case you ever want to get rid of the green Colt factory camo on that upper receiver, soak with citristrip for about 2 hours and it'll scrape right off. I don't mind the green camo but thought I'd let ya know incase you want to change it. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By ArmedFerret: Letting it sit in a reusable fridge storage container with denatured alcohol works too. Did that with a few others, just too lazy to do it with this one. Maybe when it's fully done and gets painted i'll think about it. Till then, it all shoots the same. View Quote Good to know the denatured alcohol trick too. Thanks! |
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77 Gr IMI 5.56 on sale .50 cpr at Midway. Edit: For some reason I can't hot link it.
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- Selling left nut for a Wilcox NF T1/MRDS mount.
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Originally Posted By 5pt56:
Yeah, after doing 1 of mine I just said I'll rattle can the next and go shoot. Good to know the denatured alcohol trick too. Thanks! View Quote |
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10% off Mk12 parts at Brownells today. Use code PJU on orders of $25 or more plus shipping.
This brings me to my question. Has any one used this barrel? BRAVO COMPANY - AR-15 MK12 BARREL 18" STAINLESS STEEL I would prefer a 1-7 but it looks like it would last a little longer. |
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Originally Posted By lonewolfgun:
10% off Mk12 parts at Brownells today. Use code PJU on orders of $25 or more plus shipping. This brings me to my question. Has any one used this barrel? BRAVO COMPANY - AR-15 MK12 BARREL 18" STAINLESS STEEL I would prefer a 1-7 but it looks like it would last a little longer. View Quote https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-223-wylde-match-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=WHITE%2bOAK%2bARMAMENT they offer a 1-7 twist (18" rifle length SPR) and it's on sale for $240 (not sure if the code will work on sale items but if it does, that's a RIDICULOUSLY good price, and it's a really nice one even if it doesn't). I grabbed one for my mod 1 a while back after being EXTREMELY pleased with the 20" varmint rig I put together using a much beefier WOA tube. |
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I did.
What intrigues me about the Bravo barrel is the use 410 stainless and not 416R. |
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Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
@lonewolfgun have you looked at the white oak? https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-223-wylde-match-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=WHITE%2bOAK%2bARMAMENT they offer a 1-7 twist (18" rifle length SPR) and it's on sale for $240 (not sure if the code will work on sale items but if it does, that's a RIDICULOUSLY good price, and it's a really nice one even if it doesn't). I grabbed one for my mod 1 a while back after being EXTREMELY pleased with the 20" varmint rig I put together using a much beefier WOA tube. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
Originally Posted By lonewolfgun:
10% off Mk12 parts at Brownells today. Use code PJU on orders of $25 or more plus shipping. This brings me to my question. Has any one used this barrel? BRAVO COMPANY - AR-15 MK12 BARREL 18" STAINLESS STEEL I would prefer a 1-7 but it looks like it would last a little longer. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar-15-m16-223-wylde-match-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=WHITE%2bOAK%2bARMAMENT they offer a 1-7 twist (18" rifle length SPR) and it's on sale for $240 (not sure if the code will work on sale items but if it does, that's a RIDICULOUSLY good price, and it's a really nice one even if it doesn't). I grabbed one for my mod 1 a while back after being EXTREMELY pleased with the 20" varmint rig I put together using a much beefier WOA tube. |
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-Things do not happen. Things are made to happen. -JFK
-Beware the fury of a patient man. -Thousands and thousands of laws....All for just ten commandments. -"alot" is not a word. |
Originally Posted By lonewolfgun:
I did. What intrigues me about the Bravo barrel is the use 410 stainless and not 416R. View Quote |
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- Selling left nut for a Wilcox NF T1/MRDS mount.
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Strength Determination Merciless Forever
PA, USA
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Originally Posted By TigerHawk:
My dealer did a range day yesterday and I got a chance to try out my aem5. I was super excited about how quite the thing is, grinning ear to ear. I was having a failure to feed problem though.. only had a heavy buffer and standard spring with me. Would something a little heavier help correct this? Maybe a H2 with a stiffer spring? I’m guessing it’s a little over gassed with the suppressor. http://i.imgur.com/QAwogOQ.jpg View Quote I'm so over gassed with an h2 that I stack brass damn near in front of the muzzle. Never chokes. |
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It fed very reliably without the suppressor so hopefully I can tune it with just buffer weight/spring.
Is 5 full turns within spec for mounting the can? |
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Originally Posted By TigerHawk:
My dealer did a range day yesterday and I got a chance to try out my aem5. I was super excited about how quite the thing is, grinning ear to ear. I was having a failure to feed problem though.. only had a heavy buffer and standard spring with me. Would something a little heavier help correct this? Maybe a H2 with a stiffer spring? I’m guessing it’s a little over gassed with the suppressor. http://i.imgur.com/QAwogOQ.jpg View Quote |
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"C'mon y'all, it's Indian Food Night at the DFAC"
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Originally Posted By SDMF_Rebel: It shouldn't, but if the can is the only variable, gas is your answer. I'm so over gassed with an h2 that I stack brass damn near in front of the muzzle. Never chokes. View Quote |
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Its to late for the boots, save your watch!
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FYI Botach has B5 sopmods in coyote and OD green for $49 shipped.
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Originally Posted By ArmedFerret:
DSG and Brownells both have them for the same price but they'll actually ship within a year. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Strength Determination Merciless Forever
PA, USA
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I feel old seeing people buy from botach
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Originally Posted By SDMF_Rebel:
I feel old seeing people buy from botach View Quote |
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Originally Posted By drago6:
BA barrel and Badger gas block...not a match made in heaven Unless there’s a magic secret, guess it’s time for a new barrel or GB. I put a generic .750 GB on and it went on like butter, but the Badger and PRI FSB barely made it past the step up. Tried it on the BA 16" Mod-H barrel and same result as well https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/449093/833CF721-E189-4A2E-8D73-B06F8AC001CE-670523.JPG View Quote The best way to fit a tight gas block is a .750" Ball Flex-Hone. You can run it on a battery operated drill (apply a light oil to it) and it will make the ID of the gasblock have a super nice glass finish. Run it a few times and check until it just drops onto the barrel. This is by far the best way to fit one in my opinion. Attached File |
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" Clone threads are full of dudes with sharp wit, pleasant demeanor, boyish good looks, and big swinging Richards " StealthGuy
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Originally Posted By spdrcrgts:
The description below includes both BRAVO and SOPMOD. If you actually make a selection it updates for the SOPMOD not the BRAVO. ETA: Cart and sku confirm View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Without blood, it doesn't count!
"A gun, like any other source of power, is a force for good or evil, being neither in itself, but dependent upon those who possess it." |
I was able to lightly coax my badger onto my WOA, but the fackin thing didn't come with any set screws.
Is Badger becoming like german automakers, and charging extra for things you require to make it work properly in the first place? |
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On a more happy note I have 40 esch of IMI and PMC and 50 Magtech 77s on the way. Range day the 7th to see if there's a preferred solution over others with any of my rifles or the wife's.
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