How to find out if your opinion means anything- or if you should keep your mouth shut.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How to find out if your opinion means anything- or if you should keep your mouth shut. (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:31:32 PM EDT

This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

1st: Facts- you must know the facts (at least a good portion) surrounding the subject in discussion. If you don't, keep your mouth shut and your ears open.

Not all inclusive examples- When discussing guns, if you don't know what a barrel shroud is or what a bayonet lug is for than don't open the mouth.

When discussing tasers, if you don't know what a use of force continuum is, or what a taser does to the body than don't open the mouth.

If you only know the facts but that is all, then you can ask questions and make some very limited opinions.

2nd: Understanding- this is where you know the facts but also have some understanding (limited to extensive) but no practical experience with the subject. This is where you can ask pointed informed questions and make some reasonably informed opinions.

examples- You know what a barrel shroud is and maybe even can talk about the different kinds. Same with bayonet lugs. BUT you have no practical experience in using them. IOW, book or interview knowledge, for the most part.

3rd: Experience- this is where you have actually used or have applied your knowledge of the subject in discussion. (Experience can run from little to a lot) This is where you can give expert opinion on the subject. You may have questions from those who have more experience or seek a reasoned opinion from those with understanding.

examples- You have actually used, designed, installed barrel shrouds or used bayonet lugs in combat (training, mock, or actual)

You have actually used a taser in real life (training, or actual)

Obviously actual combat or field use gives you more experience than training or mock combat.

This does not mean that every person with experience will be an expert or able to impart his knowledge well but for the most part they will.

It does mean that if you don't even know the facts about a subject you should keep the mouth shut and ears open.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:40:37 PM EDT

[#1]

Be silent, peasant.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:40:44 PM EDT

[#2]

That old saying; God gave us two ears and one mouth, so if we listen twice as much as we speak, we might learn something!

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:41:09 PM EDT

[#3]

Opinions are like assholes.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:41:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Damn, if people followed those rules here the post counter that is at the upper right corner of every page would only be a hell of a lot less.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:43:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Looks like sherrick stuck a nerve here.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:44:02 PM EDT

[#6]

If I have an opinion on something I like to share it.

It's free, and you're free to ignore it.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:45:14 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Looks like sherrick stuck a nerve here.

No, not at all. I'm just saying opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:45:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Yes they are. And you won't find me making myself one by giving an opinion on a subject where I don't even know the facts.

And just because a person has an opinion doesn't mean they have to show it to everyone.

Just like an asshole.

edited cause my wording sucked.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:46:17 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Looks like sherrick stuck a nerve here.

No, not at all. I'm just saying opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

Opinions are like Camaros...every pussy has got one...

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:46:26 PM EDT

[#10]

I would add: know who you're arguing with.

Lots of people who have BTDT in all sorts of fields. Get into an argument with them without knowing their background, and it won't be pretty.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:47:17 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I would add: know who you're arguing with.

Lots of people who have BTDT in all sorts of fields. Get into an argument with them without knowing their background, and it won't be pretty.

Oh yeah, that happens here at least once a month.

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:51:10 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Yes they are. And you won't find me making myself one by giving an opinion on a subject where I don't even know the facts.

And just because a person has an opinion doesn't mean they have to show it to everyone.

Just like an asshole.

edited cause my wording sucked.

So, what your telling me is I need to stop randomly showing people my brown eye?

Posted: 12/3/2007 10:58:43 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

Yes they are. And you won't find me making myself one by giving an opinion on a subject where I don't even know the facts.

And just because a person has an opinion doesn't mean they have to show it to everyone.

Just like an asshole.

edited cause my wording sucked.

So, what your telling me is I need to stop randomly showing people my brown eye?

Only if you don't know the facts.

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:04:27 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would add: know who you're arguing with.

Lots of people who have BTDT in all sorts of fields. Get into an argument with them without knowing their background, and it won't be pretty.

Oh yeah, that happens here at least once a ~~month~~ day.

fixed that

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:08:26 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

1st: Facts- you must know the facts (at least a good portion) surrounding the subject in discussion. If you don't, keep your mouth shut and your ears open.

Not all inclusive examples- When discussing guns, if you don't know what a barrel shroud is or what a bayonet lug is for than don't open the mouth.

When discussing tasers, if you don't know what a use of force continuum is, or what a taser does to the body than don't open the mouth.

If you only know the facts but that is all, then you can ask questions and make some very limited opinions.

2nd: Understanding- this is where you know the facts but also have some understanding (limited to extensive) but no practical experience with the subject. This is where you can ask pointed informed questions and make some reasonably informed opinions.

examples- You know what a barrel shroud is and maybe even can talk about the different kinds. Same with bayonet lugs. BUT you have no practical experience in using them. IOW, book or interview knowledge, for the most part.

3rd: Experience- this is where you have actually used or have applied your knowledge of the subject in discussion. (Experience can run from little to a lot) This is where you can give expert opinion on the subject. You may have questions from those who have more experience or seek a reasoned opinion from those with understanding.

examples- You have actually used, designed, installed barrel shrouds or used bayonet lugs in combat (training, mock, or actual)

You have actually used a taser in real life (training, or actual)

Obviously actual combat or field use gives you more experience than training or mock combat.

This does not mean that every person with experience will be an expert or able to impart his knowledge well but for the most part they will.

It does mean that if you don't even know the facts about a subject you should keep the mouth shut and ears open.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:12:06 PM EDT

[#16]

You're talking about me, aren't you?

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:19:04 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

1st: Facts- you must know the facts (at least a good portion) surrounding the subject in discussion. If you don't, keep your mouth shut and your ears open.

Not all inclusive examples- When discussing guns, if you don't know what a barrel shroud is or what a bayonet lug is for than don't open the mouth.

When discussing tasers, if you don't know what a use of force continuum is, or what a taser does to the body than don't open the mouth.

If you only know the facts but that is all, then you can ask questions and make some very limited opinions.

2nd: Understanding- this is where you know the facts but also have some understanding (limited to extensive) but no practical experience with the subject. This is where you can ask pointed informed questions and make some reasonably informed opinions.

examples- You know what a barrel shroud is and maybe even can talk about the different kinds. Same with bayonet lugs. BUT you have no practical experience in using them. IOW, book or interview knowledge, for the most part.

3rd: Experience- this is where you have actually used or have applied your knowledge of the subject in discussion. (Experience can run from little to a lot) This is where you can give expert opinion on the subject. You may have questions from those who have more experience or seek a reasoned opinion from those with understanding.

examples- You have actually used, designed, installed barrel shrouds or used bayonet lugs in combat (training, mock, or actual)

You have actually used a taser in real life (training, or actual)

Obviously actual combat or field use gives you more experience than training or mock combat.

This does not mean that every person with experience will be an expert or able to impart his knowledge well but for the most part they will.

It does mean that if you don't even know the facts about a subject you should keep the mouth shut and ears open.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Opinion with understanding and some experience (in showing my asshole).

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:19:33 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
You're talking about me, aren't you?

I don't think so.

More for the ones that post during Christmas break and summer a lot.

I'll have to bump this in a couple of weeks.

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:20:14 PM EDT

[#19]

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:35:49 PM EDT

[#20]

If only somebody heeded this advice beforehand. . .
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=632111

Posted: 12/3/2007 11:52:44 PM EDT

[#21]

instead of research, some people just like to use the GD test.

post it in the general discussion forum and you'll find out real fast whether or not you knew what you were talking about.

Posted: 12/4/2007 12:27:46 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're talking about me, aren't you?

I don't think so.

More for the ones that post during Christmas break and summer a lot.

I'll have to bump this in a couple of weeks.

Since it is the holiday season, I'm willing to give a pass to the occasional drunken brain fart.

Posted: 12/4/2007 1:04:39 AM EDT

[#23]

Just an observation, don't post in GD unless you have a fairly thick skin. This holds irregardless of the value of your opinion.

Posted: 12/4/2007 1:12:01 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
That old saying; God gave us two ears and one mouth, so if we listen twice as much as we speak, we might learn something!

Actualy he gave us two ears and two eyes, then one mouth, so the ratio should be 4:1

Posted: 12/4/2007 2:35:09 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
If only somebody heeded this advice beforehand. . .
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=632111

Damn, how the in the hell did I miss that one?

Posted: 12/4/2007 2:44:06 AM EDT

[#26]

Back when I was a Sniper, I used to mount a taser on my bayonet lug. Sometimes the barrel shroud got in the way, but i fixed that. Anyway, I would sneak up so close that I could tase a guy instead of shooting him from 900 yards out.

Posted: 12/4/2007 2:49:39 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Back when I was a Sniper, I used to mount a taser on my bayonet lug. Sometimes the barrel shroud got in the way, but i fixed that. Anyway, I would sneak up so close that I could tase a guy instead of shooting him from 900 yards out.

Posted: 12/4/2007 4:52:24 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

But, don't you routinely post in threads involving heterosexuality?

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:04:42 AM EDT

[#29]

I see that problem as folks that do not understand the difference between a "fact" and an "opinion".

They are not the same thing.

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:32:05 AM EDT

[#30]

You talk to much.

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:40:27 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I would add: know who you're arguing with.

Lots of people who have BTDT in all sorts of fields. Get into an argument with them without knowing their background, and it won't be pretty.

+1

I've been on the receiving end of that one once or twice.

Posted: 12/4/2007 5:40:54 AM EDT

[#32]

Sherrick13 for President of the know-it-alls!

Posted: 12/4/2007 7:15:38 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
You talk too much.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:07:19 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Just an observation, don't post in GD unless you have a fairly thick skin. This holds irregardless of the value of your opinion.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:19:09 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

But, don't you routinely post in threads involving heterosexuality?

My 24 yr old Moroccan wife thinks that is funny.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:21:22 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Sherrick13 for President of the know-it-alls!

Exactly the opposite. I don't post opinions in threads where I don't know the facts.

You won't see me post opinions in threads about baseball, dog breeding, engine rebuilding, deer hunting, vaccums, etc....

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:21:45 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
You talk to much.

I figured you would be on board with this one.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:32:36 AM EDT

[#38]

If I know the other person involved in an argument or debate has no idea what they are talking about I make shit up. Yup, I absolutely make things up to make them waste time trying to prove me wrong.

It is entertaining to have someone come back hours or days later and say "there are not 300 million gun owners in the US" ya think? I also convinced someone that googling was a gay term for fisting someone's rectum!

With the advent of the internets everyone can claim they are an expert on everything, two hours and the googe and you can get some pretty good info, but you also get some bainfo and have to have a keen bullshit filter to sort it all out.

I look at opinions like this, if you are talking, or writing and say something I know is 100% wrong you are a moron and I nod and listen for awhile and then break it down completely and fay them right there, in front of everyone.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:33:56 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If only somebody heeded this advice beforehand. . .
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=632111

Damn, how the in the hell did I miss that one?

I didn't miss it, but decided not to post in it.

+1 on the thick skin as well.

I can usually still say nice things about the people I argue with on here because I know for the most part they are good people and this is just the internet. Really, that is all it is.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:38:36 AM EDT

[#40]

How to find out if your opinion means anything- or if you should keep your mouth shut.

Sign #1: You're typing a posting to an internet forum.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:41:46 AM EDT

[#41]

what is cool and fun is when one states an opinion accompanied by an acknowledgement that "yes this is only my opinion"

then some Internet death-dealer comes along and states an even more ludicrous opinion but states it as fact to refute the afore mentioned opinion

that is when I gets all confused and my fillings hurt

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:43:14 AM EDT

[#42]

You do tend to take the "educator" thing too far. An estimated 15,000 posts too far.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:43:38 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sherrick13 for President of the know-it-alls!

Exactly the opposite. I don't post opinions in threads where I don't know the facts.

You won't see me post opinions in threads about baseball, dog breeding, engine rebuilding, deer hunting, vaccums, etc....

With over 19,000 posts... Sure you don't want to retract that statement?

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:51:32 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

With over 19,000 posts... Sure you don't want to retract that statement?

He's got a separate computer set up to screen arfcom threads for his areas of expertise and page him when something comes up.

Jeff

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:56:53 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sherrick13 for President of the know-it-alls!

Exactly the opposite. I don't post opinions in threads where I don't know the facts.

You won't see me post opinions in threads about baseball, dog breeding, engine rebuilding, deer hunting, vaccums, etc....

With over 19,000 posts... Sure you don't want to retract that statement?

The lions share of those 19k came from MJ, tazing, economics, and muslim threads.

He knows a thing or two about that.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:59:30 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You talk to much.

I figured you would be on board with this one.

100%

Just a friendly taser.

Posted: 12/4/2007 8:59:35 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

1st: Facts- you must know the facts (at least a good portion) surrounding the subject in discussion. If you don't, keep your mouth shut and your ears open.

Not all inclusive examples- When discussing guns, if you don't know what a barrel shroud is or what a bayonet lug is for than don't open the mouth.

When discussing tasers, if you don't know what a use of force continuum is, or what a taser does to the body than don't open the mouth.

If you only know the facts but that is all, then you can ask questions and make some very limited opinions.

2nd: Understanding- this is where you know the facts but also have some understanding (limited to extensive) but no practical experience with the subject. This is where you can ask pointed informed questions and make some reasonably informed opinions.

examples- You know what a barrel shroud is and maybe even can talk about the different kinds. Same with bayonet lugs. BUT you have no practical experience in using them. IOW, book or interview knowledge, for the most part.

3rd: Experience- this is where you have actually used or have applied your knowledge of the subject in discussion. (Experience can run from little to a lot) This is where you can give expert opinion on the subject. You may have questions from those who have more experience or seek a reasoned opinion from those with understanding.

examples- You have actually used, designed, installed barrel shrouds or used bayonet lugs in combat (training, mock, or actual)

You have actually used a taser in real life (training, or actual)

Obviously actual combat or field use gives you more experience than training or mock combat.

This does not mean that every person with experience will be an expert or able to impart his knowledge well but for the most part they will.

It does mean that if you don't even know the facts about a subject you should keep the mouth shut and ears open.

I think it's clear that the most important thing to know if you're opinion will matter is knowing whether the 'discussion' is a debate or a popularity contest. Facts rarely matter in a popularity contest,

Posted: 12/4/2007 9:05:35 AM EDT

[#48]

Sheeeeit...I have to wear a fire suit cuz I get flamed so much!!!

but I keep putting them out there. Life goes on!!!

Posted: 12/4/2007 9:23:17 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

1st: Facts- you must know the facts (at least a good portion) surrounding the subject in discussion. If you don't, keep your mouth shut and your ears open.

Not all inclusive examples- When discussing guns, if you don't know what a barrel shroud is or what a bayonet lug is for than don't open the mouth.

When discussing tasers, if you don't know what a use of force continuum is, or what a taser does to the body than don't open the mouth.

If you only know the facts but that is all, then you can ask questions and make some very limited opinions.

2nd: Understanding- this is where you know the facts but also have some understanding (limited to extensive) but no practical experience with the subject. This is where you can ask pointed informed questions and make some reasonably informed opinions.

examples- You know what a barrel shroud is and maybe even can talk about the different kinds. Same with bayonet lugs. BUT you have no practical experience in using them. IOW, book or interview knowledge, for the most part.

3rd: Experience- this is where you have actually used or have applied your knowledge of the subject in discussion. (Experience can run from little to a lot) This is where you can give expert opinion on the subject. You may have questions from those who have more experience or seek a reasoned opinion from those with understanding.

examples- You have actually used, designed, installed barrel shrouds or used bayonet lugs in combat (training, mock, or actual)

You have actually used a taser in real life (training, or actual)

Obviously actual combat or field use gives you more experience than training or mock combat.

This does not mean that every person with experience will be an expert or able to impart his knowledge well but for the most part they will.

It does mean that if you don't even know the facts about a subject you should keep the mouth shut and ears open.

I agree.

EXCEPT... Having experience does not make one an expert.

Expertise is more of a combination of your three areas of knowledge - facts, understanding, and experience.

How many people have used an object without really understanding what they are doing? Take the Taser in your example. Have people used Tasers against another without having adequate training? Does everyone who uses a Taser have full knowledge about the effects on the human body? Ask most of the people who carry a Taser to explain in detail how it works.

Another example: How many infantrymen in the twentieth century were sent into combat with a rudimentary understanding of their combat arm? Although they may have used their weapon and gained experience with it, does it necessarily make them an expert? Sure, they can field strip it, load it , shoot it, maintain it, etc. Can they explain the terminal ballistics of the round they are using? Do they fully understand the direct impingement system versus a piston-driven system? Do they have knowledge of the evolution of the particular firearm through its development? Can they explain how a primer works? Do they know if the bore is chrome-lined or not and why? Do they understand the difference between magazines and clips??

My point is that just because someone has experience, they are not necessarily an expert. However, in order to be an expert, one must have experience.

This is not an attempt to shit on your thread

Posted: 12/4/2007 9:41:38 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
This is not a rant, just a friendly guide.

*SNIP*
.

I agree with the above, but here is the Cliff Notes version for those with ADD:

If your dumb, shut the fuck up.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How to find out if your opinion means anything- or if you should keep your mouth shut. (Page 1 of 2)

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