ARFCOM FIRE MISSION: Another Zumbo apologist Dave Petzal -Field & Stream- - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM FIRE MISSION: Another Zumbo apologist Dave Petzal -Field & Stream- (Page 2 of 5)

Posted: 2/22/2007 5:57:32 PM EDT

[#1]

I take it back. Petzal gets it. He just chose to live the words of Martin Niemoller.

First they came for the Communists (EBRs),
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, (Scoped sniper rifles)
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics, (handguns and shotguns)
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, (knife in hand)
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me. (and yea I was surely fucked)

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:00:06 PM EDT

[#2]

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

Stay tuned.

You realize what this is don't you? It's advice for Sarah, thinly veiled but directed right at her and her minions and he wants us to look bad.

Fuck him. He is as much our enemy as she is.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:01:42 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

Stay tuned.

You realize what this is don't you? It's advice for Sarah, thinly veiled but directed right at her and her minions and he wants us to look bad.

Exactly!

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:06:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

Stay tuned.

You realize what this is don't you? It's advice for Sarah, thinly veiled but directed right at her and her minions and he wants us to look bad.

Fuck him. He is as much our enemy as she is.

You know what?

If I were the gun control lobby, and I were ramping up for another go at the Assault Weapons Ban, I think I'd try to revisit the conditions that got it passed in '94.

I almost have to wonder whether Mr. Petzel hasn't been contacted by old Brady, VPC et. al. and committed to carry the water. Maybe he assigned old Zumbo that article. Which is why Zumbo's so inept at defending it. Maybe that's why it sounded so anti-gun.

If any of us come across Zumbo or Petzel, I propose putting the question to them. Be it on radio, in print, or otherwise: SIRS: Did you have contact with any anti-gun organization about the assault weapons legislation?

I mean really, how is it that the coordinated press efforts hit the fan just as this article pops up?

Christ, pull out a TV guide and you'll see heavy rotation for "American President" (the movie with Michael J. Fox and Michael Douglas, who famously utters "I'm going to get the guns.").

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:06:48 PM EDT

[#5]

My opinion was spoken to the Blog. This is for damn sure a wake up call to the hunting community that thinks their guns will always be safe.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:06:58 PM EDT

[#6]

Petzal is a putz. I'm sick of this ignorant Fudds - don't they realize the signficance of what they're saying?

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:08:38 PM EDT

[#7]

I posted as MPH.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:10:42 PM EDT

[#8]

My reply :

I'll start with the fact that I'm a hunter that owns more then a few finely crafted firearms , but in the same breath I am also a shooter who enjoys shooting a quality semi-auto rifle .

NOTE THAT , a semi-auto is not an assault weapon . Which by definition is a weapon capable of AUTOMATIC fire .

The reason that Mr Zumbo drew such ire is because he couldn't make that distinction . Nor did he understand that ALL firearm owners are under attack by those who disarm us .

So called black rifle owners have good reason to be sensitive to attacks on their right to keep and bear arms since they have already felt the 10 year long
sting that was the last poorly conceived assault weapon ban .

Something that most who call themselves hunters have never encountered .

It's well beyond the time that every gun owner should understand that this game with the anti-gun crowd is for all the marbles this time .

So I have to ask .. Et tu Petzal ?

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:12:53 PM EDT

[#9]

I request a fire mission on this asshole.....

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:15:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
My Field & Stream subscription was cancelled at the same time as my Outdoor Life subscription. They are both Time-Warner publications. I'm through with both. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

Good for you. If you are a gunowner, Time-Warner is not your friend.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:15:56 PM EDT

[#11]

I am so sick of these guys.

When did it become fashionable for fat, slovenly hunter-types who write for a living to become fans of Chairman Mao?

I thought they were Americans.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:17:07 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation. This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort. Attacking him only makes us look like idiots. Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

Didn't he come out for the AW Ban in 1994?......

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:23:25 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation. This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort. Attacking him only makes us look like idiots. Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

"The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma"

Sorry TBK1, it's time to throw this FUDD under a bus like he did us in 1994.

wganz
¶

ETA: So I have to ask .. Et tu Petzal ?

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:24:50 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation. This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort. Attacking him only makes us look like idiots. Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

Didn't he come out for the AW Ban in 1994?......

I missed it at the time, but it is posted above that he did. That, coupled with this, would seem to make a reasonable and tempered "assault" a worthwhile endeavor.

Such things as crude and vulgar insults and death threats are HUGELY nonproductive to the point of being downright harmful to our cause. Hopefully everyone can avoid coming across as coarse buffoons. Facts and reason, presented in a respectful manner, are what will win this. Childish insults only hurt the effort.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:26:59 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

Stay tuned.

You realize what this is don't you? It's advice for Sarah, thinly veiled but directed right at her and her minions and he wants us to look bad.

Fuck him. He is as much our enemy as she is.

Her minions will do more than that. They'll point out that a respected member of the gun community as Petzal is doesn't even attempt to defend EBRs as protected by the 2nd. In fact he doesn't mention it so he must believe it's about the NG too. F'in tool. ESADMF

ETA I'm startin' to wonder if Time Warner has put out the word they want no talk of the 2nd Amendment. These guys are scramblin' to save each other's asses but they're avoiding saying what they ABSOLUTELY KNOW will save it. Maybe it's not salvageable. Good by Petzal, you've hidden for too long. Too bad you might be caught between a rock and a hard place.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:27:27 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation. This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort. Attacking him only makes us look like idiots. Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

Didn't he come out for the AW Ban in 1994?......

I missed it at the time, but it is posted above that he did. That, coupled with this, would seem to make a reasonable and tempered "assault" a worthwhile endeavor.

Such things as crude and vulgar insults and death threats are HUGELY nonproductive to the point of being downright harmful to our cause. Hopefully everyone can avoid coming across as coarse buffoons. Facts and reason, presented in a respectful manner, are what will win this. Childish insults only hurt the effort.

Yep. I agree. Keep it civilized.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:29:14 PM EDT

[#17]

my reply:

There is no place that I'm aware of in the constitution where the right to HUNT guaranteed. However the right to bear arms is. Zumbo may be a fine huntsman but he also showed himself to be ignorant and elitest.

Zumbo has every right to his opinion and I have every right to mine. Which is to NOT support with my Dollars anyone or any company which support Zumbos opinion. He is unemployable by his own hand.

I'll be adding David E. Petzal and Field & Stream to my do not support list.

Posted by: Steven Bass | February 22, 2007 at 10:28 PM

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:30:51 PM EDT

[#18]

After reading this post in the F&S thread, I just feel so... inferior.

Wow Dave,

Seems like the blog world has brought the best of people. It also seems like the regulars in this room are out numbed today. Where were they on the Hillary rant? Isn’t she more dangerous than Jim Zumbo?

I think most people know the hunting community has different echelons of class and education and this argument will never end. When “waging war on prairie dogs” some people like a good ole’ Stolle action……..and some want an assault rifle. Each person goes the range with whatever they want.

It seems like the majority of people commenting here (today) are ignorant. See you next week when we get back to talking about booth babes, hunts and great guns (not necessarily in that order).

Fudds. God love 'em.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:36:18 PM EDT

[#19]

You guys see? I TOLD you that this was going to bring out all the traitors.

Zumbo's blog post was like putting a hot washcloth on a bad zit.

Those Fuddites who are anti-gunners are now all going to start popping out.

Get the disinfectant!

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:36:29 PM EDT

[#20]

My response:

More Zumbo apologists? At least your "apology" on his behalf was better than his two pathetic attempts, in which he never came right out and said he was wrong and sorry for calling AR/AK owners terrorists.

Zumbo's latest apology on the Nuge boards said how there may, infact be "legitimate" hunting uses for AR's.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Since when did a person need a legitimate use for owning a firearm? Further more this implies hunting is the only legitimate use for firearms.

I know you hold this same view, because you have gone on record in 1994 supporting the Assault Weapons Ban. You sir are a selfish sellout who is perfectly willing to condone the stripping away of God given rights granted by the Second Amendment.

The second amendment has absolutely zero to do with hunting. Infact "assault weapons" are more protected by the second amendment than hunting pieces, as the the 2A refers to military grade firearms. Every person retains the God given right to own military grade arms and it is implicit that they can be used for self defense. It explicitly states they can be caried.

Those that believe guns only have a use in hunting/sport and support the banning of all other types of guns in order to "save" their favorite types are no better than VPC, The Bradies and every other anti-gun group.

The time to have this fight in the gun community is now. Either you support the true purpose of the 2A, which is to keep and bear military and combat arms for purposes of self defense and a check on the power of the government, or you don't support the 2A and only want your hunting guns - and will sell out to keep your hunting guns.

There are no more apologies, no more forgiving, the 2A has been beaten on and beaten on since 1934 and true patriots are tired of it. You are with us and the 2A or you are against us. Pick your side, because if you pick wrongly, like Zumbo, you may find yourself out of a job in as little as one weekend.

Please someone change the thread title to call for a FIREMISSION.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:39:53 PM EDT

[#21]

I would really like for Dave to explain how Zumbo's attitude towards AR15s is different than those of the Brady Bunch.
What a dipshit.
To get the Fudds' attention, I suggest that if it's inevitable there is going to be another ban, we should make sure that bolt guns and over and under shotguns are included.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:40:12 PM EDT

[#22]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/deep6zumbo/nozumbos.jpg

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:40:56 PM EDT

[#23]

KY BOB!!!

GOOD LOOKIN OUT!!!

Hit the blog and cancelled my subscription.

These Fudds just dont get it.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:42:57 PM EDT

[#24]

Sounds like a surgical procedure:

"I'm sorry but we have to admit you to perform a 'ZUMBO & PETZAL' on you"

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:46:16 PM EDT

[#25]

email sent.

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:48:13 PM EDT

[#26]

Fired one off for our side. Get er done boys and girls.

Best Regards,
HTG

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:54:13 PM EDT

[#27]

Well, I just posted my thoughts...

Posted: 2/22/2007 6:54:27 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/deep6zumbo/nozumbos.jpg

I like it

Avatar size

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:10:18 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Dave Petzal from Field and Stream just put out a blog supporting him. apparently this is the same guy that wrote an editorial 14 years ago that asked everyone to support the assault weapon ban to save his beloved bolt actions.

He dares call himself "The Gun nut".

fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunnut/2007/02/zumbomania_davi.html#comment-61252814

Found one of the comments he made here

David E. Petzal, for one, thinks the present radicalization of the NRA is hurting the interests of gun owners. Petzal, who has given thousands of dollars to the NRA, writes the "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, another centenarian institution, many of whose 2 million readers are also in the NRA. This June, the magazine made a landmark decision to break with the NRA. "it took tremendous courage," says executive editor Petzal.

"The bugle call known as reveille is a cheerful, energetic tune that, when I was in the Army, few soldiers actually got to hear," he writes in an editorial. "Real-world reveille came for gun owners this February," in the form of the assault weapons ban. Petzall like the NRA, believes that this legislation is too broad. This is partly because it would ban weapons like "the AR-15/M-16, and the MIA in modified [semiautomatic] form, which are highly accurate, and have a legitimate place in organized target competition."

But assault weapons are also implicated in terrible acts of violence, like the Stockton, California, shooting in which a deranged man killed five children and wounded 29 others using a semiautomatic AK-47 clone. "Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons," writes Petzal. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise, something that Knox and other members of his regime say they will never accept.

My response: (I hit a few of the "Fudd and proud" types while I was at it.)

Mr. Petzal:

I appreciate your efforts to support your friend and colleague. I also appreciate his years of experience and his sense of humor.

That said, I wish his blog had been meant as a joke.

Likewise, I wish you could step outside the ivory tower of hunting purism and realize that there are fellow shooting enthusiasts who happen to choose different paths.

I will lay no claim to some of the rude and downright offensive comments that were posted at Mr. Zumbo's blog. Their lack of tact and ability to present any form of cogent argument is lamentable for us as gun owners and Americans.

However, the majority of us "yahoos" who posted there are far from "nutzos", or the mental patients you attempt to portray us as in your statements - we simply happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING, and that we do not need a justification for our lawful ownership and use of our weapons of choice.

If Mr. Zumbo had simply stated the last line in his blog, that in his opinion the AR platform had no business in hunting, I could have respected that... I would have disagreed, but it would have fit his weltanshaung as a bolt action hunter. But he did not do this.

Mr. Zumbo, standing on his Outdoor Life pulpit, wrapped in corporate sponsorship and revered as an authority in the shooting sports, called me and my fellow shooters terrorists, and questioned my choice of firearm based on his particular notion of "purpose".

I am offended that we were called terrorists due to our choice of rifle, and that somehow, the sport of shooting paper with service weapons isn't real "sport" as defined by the hunting crowd.

I guess Camp Perry is just a place near a gas station on your way to a $12k sheep hunt in Canada, eh?

You belittle our vocal cadre of "Evil Black Rifle" owners for voicing our outrage at being betrayed by one of our own. You praise Mr. Zumbo, claiming

"Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood."

I don't recall him ever writing a letter to the editor of my local paper when they called for a ban on various firearms, as I have more than a dozen times.

Then again, I haven't seen your name in a byline there either. but then again, your stance on the whole issue is already well known, as shown by the qoute below, dated 1994:

"The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise... "

Compromise meaning.... take those EBR's, but spare my "huntin' gun"? When has "compromise" with any group or person intent on the destruction of your way of life meant anything except stalling the inevitable? Shall we ask Chamberlain how his compromise went with Hitler? Or how the compromise of the intelligentsia went under Mao?

I am tired of giving and giving and giving, and being told that we should be thankful we still have so much, when the other side has not only not yielded, but has gained ground at our expense.

You warn us:
"A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours."

America offers the freedom of speech. With that freedom comes reponsibility - to not shout "FIRE" in a theater, to not hurl invectives at the person much larger than you, and to not bite the hand that feeds you.

Mr. Zumbo (like many of the anti EBR posters here) probably assumed we EBR affectionados were too busy stocking up on beef jerky and brown duck hunting camo to prepare for the Soviet invasion to respond - or more likely too uncivilized to formulate a written response.

He bit, and the feeding hand retracted. It is not of our initiation. We would rather have had Mr. Zumbo on "our side" willingly. We simply responded to being stabbed in the back by someone we thought was one of our own.

But don't worry.

While the Dixie Chicks were shunned by country radio outlets as a result of their "free speech", they have been embraced by the Bush-bashing left, and found a new home on "contemporary" stations.

Likewise, I'm sure that "American Hunters and Shooters Association" can find work for him. After all - they're the group that thinks the NRA is too "focused" on the 2nd amendment.

To Pete Varamitch, who posted about "semi-autos killing cops"- I would advise him to check and see how many of my fellow officers listed on the Memorial Wall have been killed by "huntin' rifles" or "regular old shotguns". Many more than have been killed by the "semis" you decry. And as for the slam of "hillbilly"?

Hillbilly indeed, sir.

As a baccalaureate who was raised in one of the more exclusive Chicago suburbs, I would glady embrace the moniker of "hillbilly", compared to inclusion in your country club of ignorance and snobbery.

And "Mike"? the guy who posted: "Those that disagreed with Jim Zumbo go climb in your made elsewhere vehicles, and tow your made elsewhere four-wheelers, and don't forget to take your made elsewhere semi-auto's, and then spend your day in the woods, never getting your fat, lazy behinds off your four-wheelers for the entire hunt and continue to think, I just can't believe what this country is coming to."

I drive a Chevy pickup, don't own a four wheeler, shoot an american made AR when I choose to, and stalk hunt with a Winchester 70.

And the "AR" platform was invented by Eugene Stoner, right here in the US of A. In addition, how many "American" hunting guns use actions based on guns designed by Paul Mauser of Germany?

Your ignorance of firearms and elitist attidue is a sterling example of what has become known as "fudditude" - the superiority complex developed by those who only use guns for hunting and believe that the Second Amendment somehow protects their precious bolt action hunting rifles and sporting clay guns. I notice you don't mention anything about contacting your elected officials to preserve your 2A rights, so I ask... what have YOU done, except sit around and bemoan the situation?

And A.S Moeggs, who says:
"What he posted is not ammuntion for the anti-gunners, the rants on the blogs from the nutzos are."

Your lack of political and historical awareness is showing, sir. Divide and conquer is a proven military tactic. As long as you can convince yourself that the anti gunners really don't want to take away your hunting rifle if you let them take our "Evil Black Rifles", you can ensconce yourself in the warmth of denial, and sleep soundly at night.

Sadly, if things go the way you hope, you will be dreaming of the guns you were planning to one day pass along to your children or grandchildren. Guns - taken and scrapped - just like our EBR's before - that are simply cherished memories now. All in the name of "safety" by the Brady Bunch, and "compromise" by folks like Mr. Petzal.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:14:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/deep6zumbo/nozumbos.jpg

No ZUMBOS!

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:17:26 PM EDT

[#31]

Time -Warner is the real enemy, Field ans stream and Outdoor life are just travel magazines with a hunting edge. Time warner has its stooge writers working from within to get the Fudds to willingly give up our rights.

Sport Utility rifle shooters are at the Vanguard of our Civil rights movement. We should be proud to clean house , it is a long time coming.These Fuds sat on their hands while their kids got saddled with GCA of 68, Reagans machine gun registry ban , Bush seniors import ban, Clintons AWB. The snowball is rolling faster and it is up to an informed internet Movement to mobilize and stop it.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:19:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
My response: (I hit a few of the "Fudd and proud" types while I was at it.)

Mr. Petzal:

I appreciate your efforts to support your friend and colleague. I also appreciate his years of experience and his sense of humor.

That said, I wish his blog had been meant as a joke.

Likewise, I wish you could step outside the ivory tower of hunting purism and realize that there are fellow shooting enthusiasts who happen to choose different paths.

I will lay no claim to some of the rude and downright offensive comments that were posted at Mr. Zumbo's blog. Their lack of tact and ability to present any form of cogent argument is lamentable for us as gun owners and Americans.

However, the majority of us "yahoos" who posted there are far from "nutzos", or the mental patients you attempt to portray us as in your statements - we simply happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING, and that we do not need a justification for our lawful ownership and use of our weapons of choice.

If Mr. Zumbo had simply stated the last line in his blog, that in his opinion the AR platform had no business in hunting, I could have respected that... I would have disagreed, but it would have fit his weltanshaung as a bolt action hunter. But he did not do this.

Mr. Zumbo, standing on his Outdoor Life pulpit, wrapped in corporate sponsorship and revered as an authority in the shooting sports, called me and my fellow shooters terrorists, and questioned my choice of firearm based on his particular notion of "purpose".

I am offended that we were called terrorists due to our choice of rifle, and that somehow, the sport of shooting paper with service weapons isn't real "sport" as defined by the hunting crowd.

I guess Camp Perry is just a place near a gas station on your way to a $12k sheep hunt in Canada, eh?

You belittle our vocal cadre of "Evil Black Rifle" owners for voicing our outrage at being betrayed by one of our own. You praise Mr. Zumbo, claiming

"Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood."

I don't recall him ever writing a letter to the editor of my local paper when they called for a ban on various firearms, as I have more than a dozen times.

Then again, I haven't seen your name in a byline there either. but then again, your stance on the whole issue is already well known, as shown by the qoute below, dated 1994:

"The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise... "

Compromise meaning.... take those EBR's, but spare my "huntin' gun"? When has "compromise" with any group or person intent on the destruction of your way of life meant anything except stalling the inevitable? Shall we ask Chamberlain how his compromise went with Hitler? Or how the compromise of the intelligentsia went under Mao?

I am tired of giving and giving and giving, and being told that we should be thankful we still have so much, when the other side has not only not yielded, but has gained ground at our expense.

You warn us:
"A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours."

America offers the freedom of speech. With that freedom comes reponsibility - to not shout "FIRE" in a theater, to not hurl invectives at the person much larger than you, and to not bite the hand that feeds you.

Mr. Zumbo (like many of the anti EBR posters here) probably assumed we EBR affectionados were too busy stocking up on beef jerky and brown duck hunting camo to prepare for the Soviet invasion to respond - or more likely too uncivilized to formulate a written response.

He bit, and the feeding hand retracted. It is not of our initiation. We would rather have had Mr. Zumbo on "our side" willingly. We simply responded to being stabbed in the back by someone we thought was one of our own.

But don't worry.

While the Dixie Chicks were shunned by country radio outlets as a result of their "free speech", they have been embraced by the Bush-bashing left, and found a new home on "contemporary" stations.

Likewise, I'm sure that "American Hunters and Shooters Association" can find work for him. After all - they're the group that thinks the NRA is too "focused" on the 2nd amendment.

To Pete Varamitch, who posted about "semi-autos killing cops"- I would advise him to check and see how many of my fellow officers listed on the Memorial Wall have been killed by "huntin' rifles" or "regular old shotguns". Many more than have been killed by the "semis" you decry. And as for the slam of "hillbilly"?

Hillbilly indeed, sir.

As a baccalaureate who was raised in one of the more exclusive Chicago suburbs, I would glady embrace the moniker of "hillbilly", compared to inclusion in your country club of ignorance and snobbery.

And "Mike"? the guy who posted: "Those that disagreed with Jim Zumbo go climb in your made elsewhere vehicles, and tow your made elsewhere four-wheelers, and don't forget to take your made elsewhere semi-auto's, and then spend your day in the woods, never getting your fat, lazy behinds off your four-wheelers for the entire hunt and continue to think, I just can't believe what this country is coming to."

I drive a Chevy pickup, don't own a four wheeler, shoot an american made AR when I choose to, and stalk hunt with a Winchester 70.

And the "AR" platform was invented by Eugene Stoner, right here in the US of A. In addition, how many "American" hunting guns use actions based on guns designed by Paul Mauser of Germany?

Your ignorance of firearms and elitist attidue is a sterling example of what has become known as "fudditude" - the superiority complex developed by those who only use guns for hunting and believe that the Second Amendment somehow protects their precious bolt action hunting rifles and sporting clay guns. I notice you don't mention anything about contacting your elected officials to preserve your 2A rights, so I ask... what have YOU done, except sit around and bemoan the situation?

And A.S Moeggs, who says:
"What he posted is not ammuntion for the anti-gunners, the rants on the blogs from the nutzos are."

Your lack of political and historical awareness is showing, sir. Divide and conquer is a proven military tactic. As long as you can convince yourself that the anti gunners really don't want to take away your hunting rifle if you let them take our "Evil Black Rifles", you can ensconce yourself in the warmth of denial, and sleep soundly at night.

Sadly, if things go the way you hope, you will be dreaming of the guns you were planning to one day pass along to your children or grandchildren. Guns - taken and scrapped - just like our EBR's before - that are simply cherished memories now. All in the name of "safety" by the Brady Bunch, and "compromise" by folks like Mr. Petzal.

Well stated.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:19:59 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Sport Utility rifle shooters are at the Vanguard of our Civil rights movement. We should be proud to clean house , it is a long time coming.These Fuds sat on their hands while their kids got saddled with GCA of 68, Reagans machine gun registry ban , Bush seniors import ban, Clintons AWB. The snowball is rolling faster and it is up to an informed internet Movement to mobilize and stop it.

+1

Lets go Joe McCarthy on their asses

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:22:55 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Time -Warner is the real enemy, Field ans stream and Outdoor life are just travel magazines with a hunting edge. Time warner has its stooge writers working from within to get the Fudds to willingly give up our rights.

Sport Utility rifle shooters are at the Vanguard of our Civil rights movement. We should be proud to clean house , it is a long time coming.These Fuds sat on their hands while their kids got saddled with GCA of 68, Reagans machine gun registry ban , Bush seniors import ban, Clintons AWB. The snowball is rolling faster and it is up to an informed internet Movement to mobilize and stop it.

I sent out a bulletin on myspace and also to everyone on my email list calling for a boycott of time Warner Publications.

Cut and paste ans send to whoever you like if you like.

As Follows:

Date: Feb 22, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject : Boycott Time Warner Publications and Advertisers.
Body:

Time Warner through 2 of it's major magazine contributors has expressed in CLEAR language their lack of support of the Second Ammendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Specifically, Jim Zumbo (already fired from Outdoor Life) and now David Petzal of Field and Stream Magazine.
BOTH of these "gun writers" have advocated the ban of assault weapons.

For those on my friends list who are not shooters, the Second Ammendment GUARANTEES the rights of citizens to "keep and bear arms".

This means guns.

Yeah, we all have a right to own guns here in The United States of America! Not just the Army, not just the police. The second Ammendment specifically states that the PEOPLE (you and me) have the right to own guns.

Just like you have the right to go to whatever church you want, or the right not to go to church. Just like you have the right to vote, free speech and equal protection under the law.

Guess what keeps those rights in place? Guess what GUARANTEES those rights?

Yep... it's the fact that CITIZENS own Guns!

Ok for those non shooter friends of mine.... here's the 2nd Ammendment...worth reading even if you don't shoot.

"Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "

It is right there in plain English... short and sweet.

It specifies a militia AND it specifies the PEOPLE seperately and individually.

Time Warner Publications authors have taken the position that you, the citizen, you the people, are not guaranteed this right.
So long as they employ authors who endorse restricting our rights, I will not buy any of their products and encourage all my friends, shooters and non shooters alike to follow suit.

The message being sent by Time Warner is dangerous, it threatens the very rights we enjoy and are ENTITLED to as Americans!

Please email this to others whether they shoot or not, because tampering with one right leads to tampering with EVERY RIGHT.

Thank You.

For those on ARF... I know...... redundant.....

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:23:54 PM EDT

[#35]

Well, on a positive note, the enemies of the 2nd amendment are exposing themselves.

Usually cockroaches scurry from the light.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:23:58 PM EDT

[#36]

Posted by: Tom Glidden | February 22, 2007 at 07:50 PM

It seems the Hunting and Shooting Set ate one of their own.

J. Zumbo may have been very caustic in his rant, but essentially he was correct. AR and AK prefixed rifles are basically inaccurate because the chambers cut so large to operate. Guess the days where we have John Browning’s are over. These guns’ chamberings really have no place in the field, neither. Plus, seldom do hunters have confrontations with large, attacking enmasse whitetail deer, pronghorn, or elk requiring large capacity magazines. Declaring these guns as sporting arms is fanciful.

WHAT THE MOTHER FUCK OVER!?!?!

retard!

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:24:46 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
My reply:

Here is the message that nobody seems to be understanding:

The 2nd Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting.It isn't mentioned, it wasn't the intention, period.

Now if hunters want to throw the rest of us under the bus in an effort to appease the anti-gunners in the ill-conceived notion that they won't come after your wooden stocked fancy rifles when they are finished with us, you do so at your peril.

If you work against us, we will work against you.If you would like to be one shooting/hunting community, we can do that too.

AMEN

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:27:11 PM EDT

[#38]

Wait till we find out GoDaddy is a subsidiary of Time Warner..

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:29:23 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Mr. Petzal:

I appreciate your efforts to support your friend and colleague. I also appreciate his years of experience and his sense of humor.

That said, I wish his blog had been meant as a joke.

Likewise, I wish you could step outside the ivory tower of hunting purism and realize that there are fellow shooting enthusiasts who happen to choose different paths.

I will lay no claim to some of the rude and downright offensive comments that were posted at Mr. Zumbo's blog. Their lack of tact and ability to present any form of cogent argument is lamentable for us as gun owners and Americans.

However, the majority of us "yahoos" who posted there are far from "nutzos", or the mental patients you attempt to portray us as in your statements - we simply happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING, and that we do not need a justification for our lawful ownership and use of our weapons of choice.

If Mr. Zumbo had simply stated the last line in his blog, that in his opinion the AR platform had no business in hunting, I could have respected that... I would have disagreed, but it would have fit his weltanshaung as a bolt action hunter. But he did not do this.

Mr. Zumbo, standing on his Outdoor Life pulpit, wrapped in corporate sponsorship and revered as an authority in the shooting sports, called me and my fellow shooters terrorists, and questioned my choice of firearm based on his particular notion of "purpose".

I am offended that we were called terrorists due to our choice of rifle, and that somehow, the sport of shooting paper with service weapons isn't real "sport" as defined by the hunting crowd.

I guess Camp Perry is just a place near a gas station on your way to a $12k sheep hunt in Canada, eh?

You belittle our vocal cadre of "Evil Black Rifle" owners for voicing our outrage at being betrayed by one of our own. You praise Mr. Zumbo, claiming

"Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood."

I don't recall him ever writing a letter to the editor of my local paper when they called for a ban on various firearms, as I have more than a dozen times.

Then again, I haven't seen your name in a byline there either. but then again, your stance on the whole issue is already well known, as shown by the qoute below, dated 1994:

"The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise... "

Compromise meaning.... take those EBR's, but spare my "huntin' gun"? When has "compromise" with any group or person intent on the destruction of your way of life meant anything except stalling the inevitable? Shall we ask Chamberlain how his compromise went with Hitler? Or how the compromise of the intelligentsia went under Mao?

I am tired of giving and giving and giving, and being told that we should be thankful we still have so much, when the other side has not only not yielded, but has gained ground at our expense.

You warn us:
"A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours."

America offers the freedom of speech. With that freedom comes reponsibility - to not shout "FIRE" in a theater, to not hurl invectives at the person much larger than you, and to not bite the hand that feeds you.

Mr. Zumbo (like many of the anti EBR posters here) probably assumed we EBR affectionados were too busy stocking up on beef jerky and brown duck hunting camo to prepare for the Soviet invasion to respond - or more likely too uncivilized to formulate a written response.

He bit, and the feeding hand retracted. It is not of our initiation. We would rather have had Mr. Zumbo on "our side" willingly. We simply responded to being stabbed in the back by someone we thought was one of our own.

But don't worry.

While the Dixie Chicks were shunned by country radio outlets as a result of their "free speech", they have been embraced by the Bush-bashing left, and found a new home on "contemporary" stations.

Likewise, I'm sure that "American Hunters and Shooters Association" can find work for him. After all - they're the group that thinks the NRA is too "focused" on the 2nd amendment.

To Pete Varamitch, who posted about "semi-autos killing cops"- I would advise him to check and see how many of my fellow officers listed on the Memorial Wall have been killed by "huntin' rifles" or "regular old shotguns". Many more than have been killed by the "semis" you decry. And as for the slam of "hillbilly"?

Hillbilly indeed, sir.

As a baccalaureate who was raised in one of the more exclusive Chicago suburbs, I would glady embrace the moniker of "hillbilly", compared to inclusion in your country club of ignorance and snobbery.

And "Mike"? the guy who posted: "Those that disagreed with Jim Zumbo go climb in your made elsewhere vehicles, and tow your made elsewhere four-wheelers, and don't forget to take your made elsewhere semi-auto's, and then spend your day in the woods, never getting your fat, lazy behinds off your four-wheelers for the entire hunt and continue to think, I just can't believe what this country is coming to."

I drive a Chevy pickup, don't own a four wheeler, shoot an american made AR when I choose to, and stalk hunt with a Winchester 70.

And the "AR" platform was invented by Eugene Stoner, right here in the US of A. In addition, how many "American" hunting guns use actions based on guns designed by Paul Mauser of Germany?

Your ignorance of firearms and elitist attidue is a sterling example of what has become known as "fudditude" - the superiority complex developed by those who only use guns for hunting and believe that the Second Amendment somehow protects their precious bolt action hunting rifles and sporting clay guns. I notice you don't mention anything about contacting your elected officials to preserve your 2A rights, so I ask... what have YOU done, except sit around and bemoan the situation?

And A.S Moeggs, who says:
"What he posted is not ammuntion for the anti-gunners, the rants on the blogs from the nutzos are."

Your lack of political and historical awareness is showing, sir. Divide and conquer is a proven military tactic. As long as you can convince yourself that the anti gunners really don't want to take away your hunting rifle if you let them take our "Evil Black Rifles", you can ensconce yourself in the warmth of denial, and sleep soundly at night.

Sadly, if things go the way you hope, you will be dreaming of the guns you were planning to one day pass along to your children or grandchildren. Guns - taken and scrapped - just like our EBR's before - that are simply cherished memories now. All in the name of "safety" by the Brady Bunch, and "compromise" by folks like Mr. Petzal.

Very well written Tango, I wish I could articulate that well. Good Job.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:29:50 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation. This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort. Attacking him only makes us look like idiots. Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

Didn't he come out for the AW Ban in 1994?......

I missed it at the time, but it is posted above that he did. That, coupled with this, would seem to make a reasonable and tempered "assault" a worthwhile endeavor.

Such things as crude and vulgar insults and death threats are HUGELY nonproductive to the point of being downright harmful to our cause. Hopefully everyone can avoid coming across as coarse buffoons. Facts and reason, presented in a respectful manner, are what will win this. Childish insults only hurt the effort.

Nice save.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:31:21 PM EDT

[#41]

My reply to David Petzal's blog:

"Wow, Mr. Petzal...what a disappointment.

One would think that you would have learned something from what happened to your friend, Mr Zumbo.

I can understand that you're upset, but you must know that he did it to himself and he deserved what he got.

I have been a life-long hunter...starting at age 11 hunting squirrels and rabbits with my Dad. I'm going to be 41 in another month. I also served 6 1/2 years in the U.S. Army...defending the rights and freedoms that so many Americans take for granted these days.

What angered me and the vast majority of everyone else who started the firestorm that came down on Mr. Zumbo was the fact that he equated AR-15's and those who own them with terrorists.

I can assure there is nothing further from the truth.

Those of us who own AR's(and AK's and a virtually every other type of legal-to-own semi-automatic military-style firearm...) come from all walks of life. Professional and blue-collar. Doctors, lawyers, salesmen and businessmen and women. Engineers, delivery drivers, mechanics, machinists and carpenters. All of us have one thing in common...we enjoy spending time at the shooting range or in the woods and fields using our firearms in a legal, safe and responsible manner. Just the same as you and your readers.

Whatever his intention, when Mr. Zumbo likened us to terrorists, we took as a grave insult. And as a fellow gun-owner, you should have also, Mr Petzal.

Now, in your blog entry here, you liken us to "mental patients". Be careful, Mr. Petzal, you are treading on some very thin ice. There is still a great deal of anger amongst those of us whom Mr. Zumbo "threw under the bus" in his blog entry.

Please show me in the Second Amendment where it says, "The right to hunt and harvest wild game shall not be infringed...". While hunting is a time-honored American tradition, it is not what the Second Amendment is about.

The Bill of Rights is an enumeration of inalienable rights bestowed upon mankind by God, our creator. The Second Amendment specifically guarantees us the right to possess the means to defend ourselves.

Another thing that angers many of us who own AR's, AK's etc...is the sometimes astounding level of ignorance on the part of the seemingly vast majority of hunters regarding our choice of firearms. No, they're not "machine guns"...no, they don't "spray bullets"...no, they're not "implements of destruction"...not any more so than your semi-automatic Remington 7400 or Browning BAR.

Mr. Petzal, shooters who enjoy military-type semi-auto firearms have had to become virtual scholars and legal experts to keep up with some of the inane laws of questionable constitutionality that the anti-gun groups have been able to get enacted regarding the firearms we like to shoot. We've been the ones at the forefront of the gun-rights struggle. We've been the ones fighting tooth and nail to hold back the rising tide of restrictive gun-control laws and bans. We belong to every local, state and national gun-rights organization that you can imagine...NRA, Gun Owners of America, Jews for the Protection of Firearms Ownership(JPFO)(and I'm not even Jewish!) etc...

Then along comes Jim Zumbo, a fellow gun-owner, and labels us as bunch of "terrorists" because he doesn't care for our choice of firearms.

Many of us felt a lot of different things but "BETRAYED" was the most universal...we were betrayed by someone from "our side"...a fellow gun-owner.

The hunters among us had best realize that if/when the anti-gun forces acheive their goal of banning semi-automatic firearms, that their beloved lever-actions and bolt-actions are next...it's only a matter of time.

So instead of all of this name calling, anger and hatred, we need to use the self-destruction of Jim Zumbo as a wake-up call...a wake-up call that we're all in this together...that we need to work together to protect and defend our rights instead of antagonizing one another.

After all, we're all on the same side...aren't we?"

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:33:29 PM EDT

[#42]

This quote from that clown really pisses me off.

"he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood"

This guy basically called everyone of the recreational shooters, current and former soldiers, and hunters who stood up to Zumbo a bunch of idiots. What an arrogant ass.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:36:53 PM EDT

[#43]

Petzal:
he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood.

I posted this response on that blog:

One strike and you're out depends on the strike. Zumbo trashed hundreds of thousands of gunowners (if not millions), just as you are doing now.
"Yahoo" my ass...

p.s. I don't know if anyone else will boycott you but I sure will!!!

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:40:41 PM EDT

[#44]

Edit: OOOPS should have read farther than page one before posting.

www.franksmyth.com/A5584C/clients/franksmyth/frankS2.nsf/ad6eb2ddfbe72a8285256b6c00561193/e45165e76e92dfba85256b7b00790691?OpenDocument

David E. Petzal, for one, thinks the present radicalization of the NRA is hurting the interests of gun owners. Petzal, who has given thousands of dollars to the NRA, writes the "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, another centenarian institution, many of whose 2 million readers are also in the NRA. This June, the magazine made a landmark decision to break with the NRA. "it took tremendous courage," says executive editor Petzal.

"The bugle call known as reveille is a cheerful, energetic tune that, when I was in the Army, few soldiers actually got to hear," he writes in an editorial. "Real-world reveille came for gun owners this February," in the form of the assault weapons ban. Petzall like the NRA, believes that this legislation is too broad. This is partly because it would ban weapons like "the AR-15/M-16, and the MIA in modified [semiautomatic] form, which are highly accurate, and have a legitimate place in organized target competition."

But assault weapons are also implicated in terrible acts of violence, like the Stockton, California, shooting in which a deranged man killed five children and wounded 29 others using a semiautomatic AK-47 clone. "Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons," writes Petzal. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise, something that Knox and other members of his regime say they will never accept.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:53:31 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
All this made me realize a gun owners worst enemy is the gun owner that only hunts.

neck-to-neck with doper trenchcoat wearers, I'd say. But the Fudds do have the media positions, that's for sure.

Posted: 2/22/2007 7:56:46 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Edit: OOOPS should have read farther than page one before posting.

www.franksmyth.com/A5584C/clients/franksmyth/frankS2.nsf/ad6eb2ddfbe72a8285256b6c00561193/e45165e76e92dfba85256b7b00790691?OpenDocument

David E. Petzal, for one, thinks the present radicalization of the NRA is hurting the interests of gun owners. Petzal, who has given thousands of dollars to the NRA, writes the "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, another centenarian institution, many of whose 2 million readers are also in the NRA. This June, the magazine made a landmark decision to break with the NRA. "it took tremendous courage," says executive editor Petzal.

"The bugle call known as reveille is a cheerful, energetic tune that, when I was in the Army, few soldiers actually got to hear," he writes in an editorial. "Real-world reveille came for gun owners this February," in the form of the assault weapons ban. Petzall like the NRA, believes that this legislation is too broad. This is partly because it would ban weapons like "the AR-15/M-16, and the MIA in modified [semiautomatic] form, which are highly accurate, and have a legitimate place in organized target competition."

But assault weapons are also implicated in terrible acts of violence, like the Stockton, California, shooting in which a deranged man killed five children and wounded 29 others using a semiautomatic AK-47 clone. "Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons," writes Petzal. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise, something that Knox and other members of his regime say they will never accept.

This guy definitely needs to go the way of Zumbo.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:01:01 PM EDT

[#47]

Wow.

Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like. LINK

We're well and truly fucked.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:02:10 PM EDT

[#48]

Heilige Scheisse. Here we go again.

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:02:21 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Wow.

Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like. LINK

We're well and truly fucked.

no shit...talk about about a sleeping fucking giant that I had no clue there was this much hatred by our own kind (if you choose to put them in the same category as us)

Posted: 2/22/2007 8:04:50 PM EDT

[#50]

This was my response :

Mr. Petzal,
you have missed the point entirely. The 2nd Amendment has absolutley nothing to do with hunting and is solely about preserving liberty and freedom. This fact continues to confuse you and many of your fellow writers and friends in the professional hunting world.

Your pal Zumbo didn't just voice an opinion that AR's weren't suitable for hunting. He called them terrorist rifles.

Remington, the NRA, Gerber, and others have done the right thing by turning their back on Jim "Elmer Fudd" Zumbo,and turning him into persona non grata almost overnight. He deserves what he got. I will make sure that I support these companies more. As for Field and Stream, as long as you are a part of it, I'll never buy another issue.

Since you have chosen to back Zumbo, and defend him against us evil black rifle owners, then you too deserve to be "Zumboed".

Hopefully soon, you and Zumbo can take a nice hunting trip with your precious walnut stocked bolt guns. You will both have plenty of time since you will both be unemployed, and need the meat to live on. Be vewwy quiet.....were hunting wabitts!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ARFCOM FIRE MISSION: Another Zumbo apologist Dave Petzal -Field & Stream- (Page 2 of 5)

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