Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked.

Jeebus!  

Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked.

Wow...How can people be so ignorant?  

Excellent comments on there. I posted mine as well.

Careful about the trashy language though.  We are representing ourselves and you cannot take back what is written--ask Jim Zumbo.

I dropped Outdoor Life years ago when they showed signs of getting more soft.

I recall correctly, they started to feature articles about using a camera (not a game camera) which lets Bambi live another year, etc. and if I'd wanted that, I'd buy a photography mag.  That kind of set me off.  The general tenor and remarks by some writers, not just Zumbo, was/were playing into the anti-  philosophy.

Then I dropped F & S a few years after that, and I was left with American Hunter and Petersen's Hunting.   I was pretty perturbed with Petersen over a non-magazine issue regarding bismuth shot, too.

Maybe there was a little jealousy on my part that I didn't have the stature to get free guided hunts, etc. in return for plugging the lodge / guide in a magazine.  

Here's my response to him.  Followed by a email warning F&S magazine that I will get an advertiser list and start emailing them if this guy supports Zumbo and his anti gun stand in their pages.  

Great, another Fudd without a clue. Let me help you. Zumbo could have said a lot of things. "I hate AR's". "I don't think people should hunt with AR's", "AR's suck". None of that would have been a big deal. But no, Zumbo had to infer that I'm a terrorist by association, that I and people like me terrorize the world with our evil semi auto rifles and you brave and moral killers of animals should divorce yourselves from us AND help get our guns banned. And he did help, we'll have to listen to every gun grabber trumpet Zumbo's words "America's top hunter supports our semi auto ban!". Why don't you leave the Field and Stream and come back to civilization long enough to go back to school. The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting, it's about the right of the law abiding citizen to be as well armed as the average foot soldier. And that don't mean bolt action rifles and single action revolvers and hasn't for 50 years or more. Our 2A rights have already been chipped away to a large degree, why help them chip it away even more? Which is what Zumbo did and what you're doing by supporting him. Are your blinders so large that you don't know another assault weapon ban has been introduced? Are you so incredibly stupid that you don't see that the Brady bunch will come after your "high power sniper rifles" after they've banned semi auto rifles? It was Jim that said "terrorist", it was Jim that said "ban" and it was Jim that said "divorce". And I saw no retraction, just a half assed apology with a pompous rant about how he's my best friend. If he's my best friend I should just turn in ALL my rifles right now, because the battle to save the 2nd is lost. I don't hunt but I've always fought to protect YOUR hunting privileges, but YOU won't fight to protect my right to own semi auto rifles. Not only won't you fight, you'll toss me to the wolves to protect yourselves (which you're already tried once, years ago, don't think we've forgotten). Zumbo tried to play an old game, it's called "fuck your buddy" and instead it was him who got bent over. Seriously, think about who's got the whip hand here. Hunters usually don't own many weapons or shoot that many rounds. I've got 60 weapons and shoot 10k rounds a year on average. I usually but at least 2 or 3 new weapons a year. So, who's got the whip hand? Who do you think Remington will listen to? Zumbo and his ilk are snakes in the RKBA tent, poisonous snakes. Keep your mouths shut and help protect ALL our rights and you'll be fine, pull a Zumbo and we'll do what all good men do when they find a snake in their tent, crush it under heel. Now, I suggest we all go back to watching out for each other, because as Ben Franklin once said, "If we don't hang together we will surely hang separately". That's my preference and if you've got half a brain it will be yours too. Learn from Zumbo's mistake or you an all the other Fudds will have a fight on your hands you cannot win. Don't believe me? Look at Jim Zumbo, or better yet, stick a fork in him, he's done.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation.  This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort.  Attacking him only makes us look like idiots.  Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.   Didn't he come out for the AW Ban in 1994?...... I missed it at the time, but it is posted above that he did.  That, coupled with this, would seem to make a reasonable and tempered "assault" a worthwhile endeavor.   Such things as crude and vulgar insults and death threats are HUGELY nonproductive to the point of being downright harmful to our cause.  Hopefully everyone can avoid coming across as coarse buffoons.  Facts and reason, presented in a respectful manner, are what will win this.  Childish insults only hurt the effort.

+1

Please guys, we are in the right on this issue and the presentation of facts is all that is needed.   The over-frothing at the mouth responses that we know and love here, are a detrament elsewhere.

My reply.

I can definitely see the "divide and conquer tactics" employed by the anti's is working rather well. What a shame. You need to take a long look in the mirror and take stock of what you see. I have and I have decided that now is the time to make a stand. No more concessions, no more bans. If you think the anti's will stop with the EBR crowd you are fooling yourself. All you have to do is look at the words of the ones leading their fight. "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in," I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here." --U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," February 5, 1995, speaking about her authorship of the 1994 "assault weapons" ban** Actually, instead of labeling us "terrorists", "ignorant", or "mental patients", you should probably be thanking us. Why? The anti's end goal does indeed include your hunting rifle. It just happens that all of us ignorant, mental patient terrorists, are in the way. Oh, one more thing. Your welcome.

Best I could do tonight:

"Stay tuned" (indeed)

It doesn't get much clearer than this:

"Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Any questions?

I am an avid hunter, but more importantly I'm a die-hard shooter.

Mr. Zumbo screwed this concept up, but went above and beyond with some irrational comments. Mr. Petzal, you erred once in 1994 and your words are coming back to haunt you; however, we were all more ignorant back then...

MAKE NO MISTAKE, they're coming after all guns the next opportunity they perceive feasible. It may take a few years, but that is the end-state desired by the gun-grabbers. (Well except the "elite" rulers such as Feinstein and Pelosi would be allowed to own guns...)

Recommendation: Take a hard look inward and get rid of the "elitism" once and for all! We must stand united, and keep them muttering "not today comrade, not today..." (Cold War saying popular amongst us old-school SAC Warriors)

I'm not boycotting you YET, but you do have the eyes of many patriots watching your every move, and more importantly every word!

Quoted: Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked. Jeebus!

I'm not surprised.

Let's not forget that in 1776 the majority of American colonists were either actively loyal to the crown or were neutral concerning the impending revolution.

Yup... throughout history it has ALWAYS been a few courageous souls (who understand & value liberty) doing the heavy lifting for the masses who find the yoke of tyranny all too comfortable.

My reply:

Hunting, hunting, and more hunting.

This is not about hunting. Americans do not need to own guns to hunt, they need them to kill. Americans do not need fancy three thousand dollar hunting rifles with custom engraving and gold inlays, they need effective and inexpensive AK47's and AR15's whose sole purpose is to kill humans.

The First Amendment is not needed to publish sugar cookie recipies or cute stories about kittens. Likewise, the Second Amendment is not needed to shoot a deer or a rabbit for sport.

The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to own weapons that kill. Weapons that are used buy military forces all over the world, simply because the excell at administering death and destruction. Do Americans want to need these weapons? No, of course not. However, many Americans recognize that they do, in fact, need these weapons, so they want them.

The Second Amendment ensures that the government is subordinate to the will of the people, not the other way around. Americans must not allow their rights to be trampled on by those who wish to restrict freedom and, by doing so, creates an enviroment that encourages tyranny and allows it to thrive.

To tyrants everywhere: You will take our weapons from our cold dead hands! Or not, as we will slowly allow you to take them from us untill it is too late.

To my fellow Americans; our freedom and liberty is at stake. Your actions will determine the outcome.

Quoted: Guys, he is entitled to his little opinion of us and the Zumbo situation.  This is in no way similar--or worth our time and effort.  Attacking him only makes us look like idiots.  Please don't--he has not hurt the RKBA.

A previous poster in this thread stated that he had read a Petzal statement in favor of the AWB fourteen years ago.  If true, then he is just as bad as Zumbo, and you are mistaken.

The writing is on the wall.  The only real decision left to make is whether to stick to the "cold, dead hand" part or not.

Quoted: My response: Aren't you the same David E. Petzal who made the following quote in a 1994 Field & Stream article? "Assault weapons are designed to put out a high volume of fire with a high degree of controllability. The only purpose these firearms have is to kill people." You Fudds think that as long as you let the liberals in Congress have the "scary-looking black rifles", they will leave you alone. Wake up. The minute that they succeed in banning the AR-15, they will start calling your favorite .30-06 bolt-gun a "high-powered sniper rifle" and go after them next.

It get's worse, look at this Petzal quote

"Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons," writes Petzal. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise, something that Knox and other members of his regime say they will never accept.

I couldn't resist. I almost typed a book. Here is a copy of what I posted:

First off, and I quote from you Mr. Petzel:

"he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood."

"I’ve been visiting all manner of blogs and chatrooms, which has reminded me of when I used to deliver used clothing to the local mental hospital"

This kind of elitist dribble is half the problem. You don't even know the people who read your blogs yet you jump to attack and label people.

Let me describe to you this "Yahoo mental patient" that posted in response to Mr. Zumbo's attack.

I'm 35 years old. I am college educated. I am a 19 year veteran of the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen and I continue to serve. I am married with an 18 month old daughter. I did 14 months in a warzone to defend your rights. I pay my bills on time and pay my taxes. I defend your Bill of Rights every day. Damn good thing there are plenty of Yahoo mental patients who volunteer to sacrifice their lives so you can stand on your ivory tower.

You are no better than ANY of the people that voiced their opinions about Mr. Zumbo. And, you have insulted legal gun owners all over again. What Mr. Zumbo has done for "the sport" has no relevance in the fight to prevent any type of firearm from being banned so who cares what he has done for "the sport". If he was truly supporting "the sport" he would show solid support for ALL gun owners regardless of type.

I LEGALLY own several AR-15's and serve the freedoms of this great nation everyday. For Mr. Zumbo to associate the weapon that I defend this country with, and me as a person, with terrorists, is unforgiveable in my book. He further openly stated that he supports them being banned from hunting. That too is unforgiveable.

I will die for you, leave my wife to raise my daughter by herself, so that you can hunt with whatever you want. I will defend your rights without question or condition. You can hunt with whatever you want. Let me hunt, punch holes in paper or drop steel targets with whatever I want. I expect equal consideration. The second amemdment is non-negotiable. For me, it is truly a "your with us or against us" issue. There is no middle ground to be stood on.

Here is another quote from you:

Jim made an immediate apology. He did not equivocate, or qualify, or make excuses. He acted like a gentleman and said he was wrong, and he was sorry.

Not once did Jim apologize for his "terrorist" comments. Jim did make excuses, he said he was tired and didn't think things through. That is an excuse.

And another one of your quotes:

"A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours."

This is not a dangerous situation. It is the power of freedom of speech. What people tend to forget is that you are accountable for what you say. Jim is still the same guy he was before he hit the "post" button. His words are what ruined him. He made the choice to post those "terrorist" insults and demands for "divorcing the hunting community from semi-auto military style rifles." His FINANCIAL backers did not support his position and opinion and pulled the plug. They are allowed to do so because this is a free America.

Mr. Zumbo has no one to blame but himself. It was HIS choice to make those comments.

Notice that I didn't call you a name or associate you with any less fortunate section of society in my post. Maybe you can learn something from that.

Maybe this time you will stand up with ALL gun owners and voice opposition to HR1022. Your previous support of the 94 weapon ban isn't encouraging though.

I suppose these writers think no one hunts with an M-1?   Seems like a perfectly good deer and black bear gun to me.

"Someone said that I didn't explicitly mention the words "I'm sorry". I thought those words rang throughout my statement. If not, here it is: I AM SORRY!

Let me put it this way. I am sorry that I said the words "ban" and "terrorist" in the context that I did.
I called myself ignorant and irresponsible. If you want to keep kicking me in the butt, go ahead. I AM sincere about this, despite what some of you might think to the contrary."  Jim Zumbo 2-22-07

What is this apology Petzle speaks of?

Odd, but since Zumbo uses words every day I find the claim that he didn't equivocate laughable.

"I'm sorry I said the words"?  That's an apology I'd expect from a 4th grader.

Goodness, I'm sure he is sorry about what he said.  But that's meaningless.

Either he can't write or he equivocates.

What is going on is this FSB week? (Friends of Sarah Brady). Did she have a gift set of knives that she has handed out for you elitist hunters to stab believers in the 2nd Amendment in the back with? This is and has been about the right to keep and bear arms, you and your friend Zumbo don't really understand and believe that do you? I suppose for you it is about having $10,000 shotguns and free guided hunting trips available for you and your elitist buddies, to hell with the masses right. You are a dangerous fool to our freedom as much as Zumbo is. Posted by: NGO | February 23, 2007 at 01:36 AM

Quoted: My reply: Hunting, hunting, and more hunting. This is not about hunting. Americans do not need to own guns to hunt, they need them to kill. Americans do not need fancy three thousand dollar hunting rifles with custom engraving and gold inlays, they need effective and inexpensive AK47's and AR15's whose sole purpose is to kill humans. The First Amendment is not needed to publish sugar cookie recipies or cute stories about kittens. Likewise, the Second Amendment is not needed to shoot a deer or a rabbit for sport. The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to own weapons that kill. Weapons that are used buy military forces all over the world, simply because the excell at administering death and destruction. Do Americans want to need these weapons? No, of course not. However, many Americans recognize that they do, in fact, need these weapons, so they want them. The Second Amendment ensures that the government is subordinate to the will of the people, not the other way around. Americans must not allow their rights to be trampled on by those who wish to restrict freedom and, by doing so, creates an enviroment that encourages tyranny and allows it to thrive. To tyrants everywhere: You will take our weapons from our cold dead hands! Or not, as we will slowly allow you to take them from us untill it is too late. To my fellow Americans; our freedom and liberty is at stake. Your actions will determine the outcome.

... Fantastic!

... except you're preaching to the choir on this forum. What you youngsters need to do is educate the young children of America about the fundamentals of RKBA & the 2A

... otherwise, this generation is the end of America defined by the US Constitution

Good god this is tiresome. In 1994 we all took it in the head from people just like Mr. Petzal and him in particular. At the time there was no effective way to counter that drivel as it was the press that controlled the debate. Jim Zumbo called me in effect a terrorist because I choose to own an AR15 and horror of all horror I hunt with it and my .308 FAL. Today there was an effective and rapid way to let him know that we didn't care for it much. The consequences of his words are his own. I personally have little use for "sniper rifles", you know those "high powered" rifles with deadly scopes and the accuracy to kill people from hundreds of yards away while cutting through body armor. I'm sure everyone here would join hands and thank me for my opinion should I be able to publish an article where I ask why anyone would really need such firearms and why I think it's unsporting to use them in the field and thus they should be banned. I have not once in my life ever suggested that guns I don't care for were fine to ban. I'd stand up and fight to the end to preserve anyones right to own and use whatever firearm they choose so long as they act ethically and safely and legally. What is sad is the number of supposed experts who call for all this unity while calling anyone who argues against them mental patients and commandos because they don't like the firearms they own. Take a peek in the mirror Petzal if you want to know which of us is tearing gun owners apart.

My response:

Quite a few folks here are on Jims' side, and that is fine. Jim is entitled to his opinions, as ill conceived as he stated they were. Those same "quite a few" have their heads in a cloud. When one type of firearm is banned, then guess what? YOUR type of firearm is next. Will you then rise up to the challenge, or wait until they come for your next type of firearm?

I see on here mentions of "hunter" and "shooter". Does not everybody realize they are the same? Both types point a rifle/shotgun at an object/game via sights/scope, both sides pull a trigger, and both sides send a projectile/projectiles launched by gunpowder from a brass/plastic cased cartridge/shell to the target/game. Hunters and shooters are the same people!

I own "hunting rifles" and so called "assault rifles", as well as shotguns. They all do the same thing: send projectiles downrange after I have pulled the trigger.

My opinion is this: If you're for banning one type of firearm, you're for banning ALL types of firearms.

After "they" take our "assault" rifles, then our "high powered, scoped sniper" rifles, what will we do when "they" come for our "killer" semi-auto and pump shotugns? Are the shooters only going to rise up when they come for the "precision" skeet and trap shotguns? How about your "devastating" .50+ caliber black powder rifle? After all other guns have been confiscated, who will speak for YOU?

We had better speak out in favor of each other or we will all DEFINITELY lose in the end.

Posted by: scott1957 | February 23, 2007 at 01:43 AM

We had better hang together or we will hang separately, Mr. Petzel. Word to the wise.

Posted by: BenFranklin | February 23, 2007 at 01:44 AM

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What another Friend of Sarah Brady in our mist?? Dave Petzal would seem to think that the 2nd Amendment is for him and his weapon of choice. Jim Zumbo only made an excuse for saying outloud what he really belives. He never retracted his statements about 'terrorist rifle' I'm a Veteran so does that make me a terrorist? He called for a ban on EBR's do you support banned weapons based on looks? Dave seems to think that a hollywood apology is all that is needed. Jim Zumbo took a stand against millions of Americans, that don't do things the way he does, socialist thinking So do you Field and Stream feel the same way about Jim Zumbo? A voice for your organization seems to and he has made his vioce loud and clear.

You guys seem to have gotten way more out of "the gun nuts" column than I did....the salient point I got was his observation of the number of "off with zumbos head" posts. He made the point that the Brady Bunch will be combing these very forums for our own words to use against us and to present to Congress in support of their vile plans.

Zumbo ate the big shit sandwich. We need to be sure we don't eat the crumbs by giving the Brady bunch any ammo to use against us!!

Please be cool!

Quoted: My Field & Stream subscription was cancelled at the same time as my Outdoor Life subscription. They are both Time-Warner publications. I'm through with both. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

Excellent first post !  Welcome to the site !  

Quoted: Posted by: Tom Glidden | February 22, 2007 at 07:50 PM It seems the Hunting and Shooting Set ate one of their own. J. Zumbo may have been very caustic in his rant, but essentially he was correct. AR and AK prefixed rifles are basically inaccurate because the chambers cut so large to operate. Guess the days where we have John Browning’s are over. These guns’ chamberings really have no place in the field, neither. Plus, seldom do hunters have confrontations with large, attacking enmasse whitetail deer, pronghorn, or elk requiring large capacity magazines. Declaring these guns as sporting arms is fanciful. WHAT THE MOTHER FUCK OVER!?!?! retard!

I've said this before.  I'll repeat myself.

THIS WHOLE "SPORTING PURPOSE" BULLSHIT NEEDS TO BE DUG OUT, EXPOSED AND UTTERLY OBLITERATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH

It's an artificially created term just like "Assault Weapon" and has the same effect, it divides firearms ownership into two camps.

1.  The "Sportsmen" and their "sporting implements"

and

2. Those that own firearms for defense, staying true to the letter and spirit of the The Second Amendment.

However the media and politicians have twisted the second camp in to "Machine gun toting militia types" and "gun nuts".  Zumbo just took that to the next level by calling us "terrorists".

I FULLY support a persons sport of hunting with whatever tools they deem most efficient to do so.  Why is becoming so blatantly obvious that they can't do the same for us?

I think Petzal has illustrated that clearly.  They are willing (eager?) to destroy anyone and anything (including The Second) if it stands in the way of their "sport".

These people need to be ousted for the traitors that they are.  We would (and do) fight to preserve hunting rights even if we don't hunt and they throw us under the bus to protect themselves.  

Time to ramp this up and clean house on these people.

Any state thinking secession yet?  The gov we have now is just like the one that caused the troubles 231 years ago.

Field and Stream is a FUDD magazine and pretty much always has been. This guy is a FUDD, look at his picks for "best rifles of 2007", it is the same bolt-action FUDD gun over and over.  Hell the first 15 of the "greatest guns ever" has three different versions of the Mauser 98, apparently a copy is better and worse than the original.

This guy is about as far from a "gun nut" as you can get.  He is basically a democrat, he supports what he likes and does not see a reason for you to like or own anything different that what he likes.

FUDD's saying they support gun rights = democrats who support the war

FUDD's believe you should only own a couple of crappy bolt rifles and thank the gov't for the privilage.  DEMOCRATS pretend they support the troops but undermine ANY polict that could cause victory and pray everyday for the terrorists to finally win.

Looks like I wil find the $$$ to make another AR purchase, just cause I know it pisses off so many "fudds".

"Fudds" A word I thought I would not be using, but now I see they really do hate those of us that own ARs.

I tagged this.  I will contact FS later to make my comments.  Anybody or organization that is anti 2A is not my friend.

Let's take these guys down.

And, oh yeah.  My new AR just arrived at the shop.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked. Jeebus!   I'm not surprised. Let's not forget that in 1776 the majority of American colonists were either actively loyal to the crown or were neutral concerning the impending revolution. Yup... throughout history it has ALWAYS been a few courageous souls (who understand & value liberty) doing the heavy lifting for the masses who find the yoke of tyranny all too comfortable.

Damn, what a bunch of uneducated bozos on the commie site you linked.  Yes, I may have to register and explain that the history of the world is one of the history of war.  It is too bad the commies and leftie elites have managed to brainwash so many in this country.  I guess these folks would have defended themselves against the Katrina looters and thugs with kind words and hugs.  LOL.  We need to fight this ignorance vigorously.

Quoted: Quoted: i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/deep6zumbo/nozumbos.jpg I like it   Avatar size photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/IG_LoadAvatar.asp?sAccountUnq=10530

I like it.  I used it on another forum.  PM me if you'd rather I not.

Petzal needs to make some apologies himself for supporting the black rifle ban.  
That being said, he wasn't totally off base in regards to the Zumbo destruction.

..... Jim Zumbo is now as employable as the Unabomber, and Sarah Brady will no doubt adopt his comments to her own gun-control purposes. For the last several days I’ve been visiting all manner of blogs and chatrooms, which has reminded me of when I used to deliver used clothing to the local mental hospital. I’ve tried to make some sense of it all, but because the waters are still full of blood and body parts continue to rain from the sky, I haven’t come up with any Great Truths. Lacking that, here are some Lesser Truths.

Some of the posts regarding Zumbo do appear as if they came from mental patients or small children.  They lack maturity and common sense.

..... What Jim said was ill-considered. He’s entitled to his beliefs, but when a writer of his stature comes out against black guns, it sure as hell does not help our cause. Even so, Jim made an immediate apology. He did not equivocate, or qualify, or make excuses. He acted like a gentleman and said he was wrong, and he was sorry. Apparently this is not enough anymore. We now live in the era of one strike and you're out.

I don't think that many are ready to kiss and make up, but it is time to back off just a bit and see how sincere Zumbo is.  

..... For 40 years, Jim has been a spokesman and ambassador of good will for hunting. Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood. Jim has paid dearly for what he said. He has lost his blog and his association with Remington. Cabela’s has suspended its sponsorship of his TV show; and Outdoor Life has accepted his offer to sever ties. To all the chatroom heroes who made him unemployable, I have a word of warning: You’ve been swinging a two-edged sword. A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours. If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

We have already seen the antis using his words against us.   Zumbo is definitely paying an exceptionally high price for his comments.  We need to redirect this effort against those in the legislature who would even think about another black rifle ban and against those suck as Jim Doyle in Wisconsin who are single handedly blocking CCW within their states.  
Anyone who says "We don't need hunters on our side" is an absolute idiot.  Being ignorant of the big picture is dangerous.   Just because there are a few message boards where black rifle enthusiasts get together and groups of us go to the range does not mean that we are the majority in the world of gun users.   We already know that there are challenges getting the EBR crowd to the polls.  If the EBR community was as some believe it to be, we would have not lost the number of Republican seats that we did and we would have pushed more democrats out of office.  
Using Zumbo to our benefit is much wiser than continuing to allow him to be used against us.  We need help in bridging between the different gun communities.  We NEED the hunting community to be our ally.

Quoted: Field and Stream is a FUDD magazine and pretty much always has been. This guy is a FUDD, look at his picks for "best rifles of 2007", it is the same bolt-action FUDD gun over and over.  Hell the first 15 of the "greatest guns ever" has three different versions of the Mauser 98, apparently a copy is better and worse than the original. ....... FUDD's believe you should only own a couple of crappy bolt rifles and thank the gov't for the privilage.

There is no such thing as a FUDD gun.  There is NOTHING wrong with preferring a bolt gun over an AR as long as you respect that others prefer an AR and they have the right to own and shoot it.   Hunters like myself own several conventional rifles and    EBRs.  They are all tools used for killing AND other recreational shooting.  An analogy is that you can use a crescent wrench  on a bolt but sometimes it is more appropriate to use a socket and ratchet.  Both get the job done, but sometimes one just works better for the task at hand.  

Quoted: My reply: Hunting, hunting, and more hunting. This is not about hunting. Americans do not need to own guns to hunt, they need them to kill. Americans do not need fancy three thousand dollar hunting rifles with custom engraving and gold inlays, they need effective and inexpensive AK47's and AR15's whose sole purpose is to kill humans.

How much did Sarah Brady pay you to post that?

These are the types of quotes which will haunt us.  These are the quotes which are food for the AWB proponents.    We can NOT prevail without hunters on our side.
To say that we only need to kill people is worse than saying that we only need to hunt animals and not defend ourselves by killing people.  
Remington, Marlin, Savage, Weatherby, etc. would not exist if it were not for hunters.  Saying that we only need black rifles is more ignorant than saying that we do not need black rifles because you should know better.


Time for a reality check!!!!  
We are supposed to be the good guys.  We are supposed to be the patriots.  How about as a community we start acting and talking like it?   Lets set the example for the others to follow.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked. Jeebus!   I'm not surprised. Let's not forget that in 1776 the majority of American colonists were either actively loyal to the crown or were neutral concerning the impending revolution. Yup... throughout history it has ALWAYS been a few courageous souls (who understand & value liberty) doing the heavy lifting for the masses who find the yoke of tyranny all too comfortable.

Here is my personal favorite on the first page.

I've shot guns for fun, I've hunted with them, and I'm in favor of the assault rifles ban. I agree with that hunter. Assault weapons have no place in hunting wildlife on land. Or if they do, then so do dynamite sticks, mini-nukes and stealth submarines.

No place for hunting on land? How about on water? I am betting that stealth submarines are no good for hunting on land either.

I'm confused here.  

How is it that "Hunting" is the only legitimate use for firearms?  Isn't that the argument these guys are trying to make?  Maybe "Plinking" isn't a sport, but what about 3 gun, or Cowboy Shooting, etc.

Was JFK killed with an "Assault Rifle"?

Let's face it guys...............the "hunters" will never support us because they are convinced that the Anti's will never ban their rifles if they just relent and support a Black Rifle ban............they arent on our side and they never will be. Our hobby is a threat to them, and if their guns were banned, it would be blamed on us........they wont be swayed, so we need to look elsewhere for allies

Quoted: I'm confused here.   How is it that "Hunting" is the only legitimate use for firearms?  Isn't that the argument these guys are trying to make?  Maybe "Plinking" isn't a sport, but what about 3 gun, or Cowboy Shooting, etc. Was JFK killed with an "Assault Rifle"?

How about we stop being politically correct and say what the 2nd Amendment is really about.

It's about the balance between government and people, and it exists to provide the people with the means to drag tyrranical government people into the field and mow them down into a pile of steaming, pink foam. Period.

If the RKBA is ever compromised, the government you got is the government you get to keep.

If the RKBA is ever compromised, eventually your right to free speech and your right to vote will likewise be compromised.

After all, what are you going to do about it? Now it is THEY who have all the guns, and your political lobby doesn't mean shit.

It is a slippery slope upon which we balance.

The problem is that his "apology" still only admitted that perhaps AR15's have a sporting purpose. Excuse me? The second amendment is NOT about hunting. Congress could ban hunting and it would not violate the second amendment. Zumbo did (ETA:not ) mention  ANYTHING about the constitution or the second amendment in his so-called apology. An apology would have read "I'm a jackass for thinking I could sacrifice black-gun-owners to save my own hobby" The damage CANNOT be undone now, since other FUDD's like you still remain to give the anti's the ammo they need. You better take a good look at your hunting rifles, whoops, I mean 'high-power-sniper-rifles', cause it looks like they're coming for the hi-power rifles before they come for the black-rifles this time. Difference is, the black-rifle crowd will stand up with the FUDDS to protect their RIGHTS (not sporting hobbies - but RIGHTS), while the FUDDS have and will let the black-rifle guys swing in the wind over and over again. Posted by: Marc | February 23, 20

My reply
-----------

Shame on you Dave,

I own both hunting rifles and ugly black guns. I gladly stand by my brothers with thier Remmies and Mausers with which they hunt in defense of thier rights, why can't you and yours do the same for the ugly black gunowners? I for one sir "get it". When they have taken "my" black rifle, they will then turn thier attention on "my" hunting rifles, I do not wish to give up either. Together we stand, divided we fall Dave.

I for one am glad you made this blog post and am thankful I found a link to it. You see, I like others had forgotten your follie before the '94 ban but now it has all come back to me. I wish I could say that I'll cancel my subscription to F&S but a subscription is a luxury I don't afford myself. What I can do is this, I have in the past purchased several copies a year when a cover catches my eye at the news stand. No more, further I'll forward a copy of my reply here to all advertisers of F&S letting them know that as long as they support divisive members of the shooting fraternity such as yourself I'll spend my dollars elsewhere.

You exercised your first amendment rights Dave, now I'll exercise mine.

Good Day
JR Hess
Riverton, Utah

Here is what I wrote on Petzals blog...

Sir,
Your comment below shows that you still don’t get what this is all about.
This is not about “HUNTING” (“Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood.”).
It is about a right to keep and bear arms.  All firearms.  Not just your bolt action firearms, but my Rock River Arms Elite Car A4 that I love to shoot at my range once a month and use for self defense purposes in a Hurricane prone area where I have to defend my home from looters after a storm.  There seems to be a disconnect, with Sports writers, Hunters and the shooting community.  What makes my firearm more dangerous then yours?  What makes your firearm more sacred and “hands off” from the gun grabbing liberals then mine.  It’s not about hunting sir, but attitudes like yours and Zumbo that are giving the Brady’s just what they wanted.  Ammunition against my right to Keep and Bear Arms even my Assault Rifle AKA Terrorist riffle.  The Chat room heroes didn’t make him unemployable, His attitudes towards the firearms that I decide I wanted to Keep and Bear did.

This is a political battle.  This fight requires tact and strategy.   We NEED the support of the hunting community or we will not ultimately succeed.   Only those who show up at the polls and vote will truly have a say in the outcome.  Numbers matter.  
We all know that the right to bear arms is intended to battle tyrany.  It is not to go bunny blasting.   Being able to go bunny blasting was assumed back in the mid 1700s.  There was no DNR to set hours of hunting or seasons.  You just went out and shot meat when you needed it.  
The reality is that we are in the 21st century.  Many many voters have never even killed a bunny or squirrel.  The spoiled self centered urbanites just go to Chicken Hut and feed their faces with grease.   Fortunately there are still many voters who are hunters.  BRD inflicted individuals who are not hunters are in a very small minority.  This is a simple absolute fact.  The general public does not fear its government and has become apathetic and sluggish.    Fat Dumb and Happy.  
The manor that we present our case and the perception of those who hear it truly matters.     Recreational target shooters and hunters need to respect and help each other in our common cause.   All should recognize that self defense alone is a legitimate reason to own guns.  

Tag for later consumption.

Quoted: Mr. Petzal: I appreciate your efforts to support your friend and colleague. I also appreciate his years of experience and his sense of humor. That said, I wish his blog had been meant as a joke. Likewise, I wish you could step outside the ivory tower of hunting purism and realize that there are fellow shooting enthusiasts who happen to choose different paths. I will lay no claim to some of the rude and downright offensive comments that were posted at Mr. Zumbo's blog. Their lack of tact and ability to present any form of cogent argument is lamentable for us as gun owners and Americans. However, the majority of us "yahoos" who posted there are far from "nutzos", or the mental patients you attempt to portray us as in your statements - we simply happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING, and that we do not need a justification for our lawful ownership and use of our weapons of choice. If Mr. Zumbo had simply stated the last line in his blog, that in his opinion the AR platform had no business in hunting, I could have respected that... I would have disagreed, but it would have fit his weltanshaung as a bolt action hunter. But he did not do this. Mr. Zumbo, standing on his Outdoor Life pulpit, wrapped in corporate sponsorship and revered as an authority in the shooting sports, called me and my fellow shooters terrorists, and questioned my choice of firearm based on his particular notion of "purpose". I am offended that we were called terrorists due to our choice of rifle, and that somehow, the sport of shooting paper with service weapons isn't real "sport" as defined by the hunting crowd. I guess Camp Perry is just a place near a gas station on your way to a $12k sheep hunt in Canada, eh? You belittle our vocal cadre of "Evil Black Rifle" owners for voicing our outrage at being betrayed by one of our own. You praise Mr. Zumbo, claiming "Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood." I don't recall him ever writing a letter to the editor of my local paper when they called for a ban on various firearms, as I have more than a dozen times. Then again, I haven't seen your name in a byline there either. but then again, your stance on the whole issue is already well known, as shown by the qoute below, dated 1994: "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma" Petzal concludes by advocating compromise... " Compromise meaning.... take those EBR's, but spare my "huntin' gun"? When has "compromise" with any group or person intent on the destruction of your way of life meant anything except stalling the inevitable? Shall we ask Chamberlain how his compromise went with Hitler? Or how the compromise of the intelligentsia went under Mao? I am tired of giving and giving and giving, and being told that we should be thankful we still have so much, when the other side has not only not yielded, but has gained ground at our expense. You warn us: "A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours." America offers the freedom of speech. With that freedom comes reponsibility - to not shout "FIRE" in a theater, to not hurl invectives at the person much larger than you, and to not bite the hand that feeds you. Mr. Zumbo (like many of the anti EBR posters here) probably assumed we EBR affectionados were too busy stocking up on beef jerky and brown duck hunting camo to prepare for the Soviet invasion to respond - or more likely too uncivilized to formulate a written response. He bit, and the feeding hand retracted. It is not of our initiation. We would rather have had Mr. Zumbo on "our side" willingly. We simply responded to being stabbed in the back by someone we thought was one of our own. But don't worry. While the Dixie Chicks were shunned by country radio outlets as a result of their "free speech", they have been embraced by the Bush-bashing left, and found a new home on "contemporary" stations. Likewise, I'm sure that "American Hunters and Shooters Association" can find work for him. After all - they're the group that thinks the NRA is too "focused" on the 2nd amendment. To Pete Varamitch, who posted about "semi-autos killing cops"- I would advise him to check and see how many of my fellow officers listed on the Memorial Wall have been killed by "huntin' rifles" or "regular old shotguns". Many more than have been killed by the "semis" you decry. And as for the slam of "hillbilly"? Hillbilly indeed, sir. As a baccalaureate who was raised in one of the more exclusive Chicago suburbs, I would glady embrace the moniker of "hillbilly", compared to inclusion in your country club of ignorance and snobbery. And "Mike"? the guy who posted: "Those that disagreed with Jim Zumbo go climb in your made elsewhere vehicles, and tow your made elsewhere four-wheelers, and don't forget to take your made elsewhere semi-auto's, and then spend your day in the woods, never getting your fat, lazy behinds off your four-wheelers for the entire hunt and continue to think, I just can't believe what this country is coming to." I drive a Chevy pickup, don't own a four wheeler, shoot an american made AR when I choose to, and stalk hunt with a Winchester 70. And the "AR" platform was invented by Eugene Stoner, right here in the US of A. In addition, how many "American" hunting guns use actions based on guns designed by Paul Mauser of Germany? Your ignorance of firearms and elitist attidue is a sterling example of what has become known as "fudditude" - the superiority complex developed by those who only use guns for hunting and believe that the Second Amendment somehow protects their precious bolt action hunting rifles and sporting clay guns. I notice you don't mention anything about contacting your elected officials to preserve your 2A rights, so I ask... what have YOU done, except sit around and bemoan the situation? And A.S Moeggs, who says: "What he posted is not ammuntion for the anti-gunners, the rants on the blogs from the nutzos are." Your lack of political and historical awareness is showing, sir. Divide and conquer is a proven military tactic. As long as you can convince yourself that the anti gunners really don't want to take away your hunting rifle if you let them take our "Evil Black Rifles", you can ensconce yourself in the warmth of denial, and sleep soundly at night. Sadly, if things go the way you hope, you will be dreaming of the guns you were planning to one day pass along to your children or grandchildren. Guns - taken and scrapped - just like our EBR's before - that are simply cherished memories now. All in the name of "safety" by the Brady Bunch, and "compromise" by folks like Mr. Petzal.

Outfuckingstanding.

It is articulate and educated responses such as this that will win the fight.

ZUMBOMANIA: David E. Petzal’s take on the Jim Zumbo fiasco

Jim Zumbo is now as employable as the Unabomber

As it should be for now.


For the last several days I’ve been visiting all manner of blogs and chatrooms, which has reminded me of when I used to deliver used clothing to the local mental hospital.

So, us civil right activists are now be compared to mental patients instead of terrorists?  That, sir, as unacceptable as the earlier label slapped on us by Zumbo.


What Jim said was ill-considered. He’s entitled to his beliefs, but when a writer of his stature comes out against black guns, it sure as hell does not help our cause.

'Ill considered?'  It was plain old ignorant bigotry about EBR.  Yes, he's entitled to his bigotries.  We're entitled to not support his sponsors and his employers.

Even so, Jim made an immediate apology. He did not equivocate, or qualify, or make excuses.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!

...he was wrong, and he was sorry...

...for risking the (eventual) loss of all those really cool FREE hunts we all dream about and save money for.

Apparently this is not enough anymore. We now live in the era of one strike and you're out.

For 40 years, Jim has been a spokesman and ambassador of good will for hunting. Through his tireless efforts as a teacher and lecturer on hunting and hunting skills, he has done more for the sport than any 250 of the yahoos who called for his blood.

So now I'm a yahoo too?  Petzal, your observational abilities are right up there with your math skills.  Tens of thousands called for his blood.  We aren't yahoos any more than the Minutemen who fought in the Revolutionary War were.

I'll put my resume regarding second amendment advocacy up against yours, Mr. Petzal or Mr. Zumbos any day of the week.  My accomplishments are long and laudable, but this isn't about me.  It's about folks like you, Mr. Petzal.

In fact, as I mentioned elsewhere, my pet ferrets have done more net good for the Second Amendment than Jim Zumbo has done.  That ain't hard when you consider how long we're going to be reminded of Jim Zumbo's screed by Sarah and friends.




Jim has paid dearly for what he said. He has lost his blog and his association with Remington. Cabela’s has suspended its sponsorship of his TV show; and Outdoor Life has accepted his offer to sever ties. To all the chatroom heroes who made him unemployable, I have a word of warning: You’ve been swinging a two-edged sword. A United States in which someone can be ruined for voicing an unpopular opinion is a dangerous place. Today it was Jim’s turn. Tomorrow it may be yours.

Well, sir, I hope today is YOURS.  You've deserved it.  Zumbo's opinion was not "UNPOPULAR", it was ignorant and bigoted.  It might be your opinion that black people are Racial slur deleted, but it would be based upon ignorance and bigotry.  And opinions like that, when put forth by men sponsored by companies and employed by periodicals carries risk.

If Sarah Brady is smart—and she is very smart—she will comb through the same blogs and chatrooms I’ve been reading, excerpt some of the most vicious and foul-mouthed entries, print them up, and distribute them to Congress. Then it will be interesting to see how the men and women who wrote that stuff enjoy seeing their efforts being put to use by every anti-gunner in America.

You wouldn't believe the hate mail I've received from the antis.  At least our people can spell and use grammar correctly for the most part!

Stay tuned.


John

Quoted: Wow.   Here's what the Sheeple boards sound like.   LINK We're well and truly fucked.

SO much ignorance in these people and they think they're so fricking smart.  The smugness and stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

We are fucked.

my reply...
The 2nd Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting.It isn't mentioned, it wasn't the intention, period.

as a Veteran I am insulted by you "hunters" trying to make excuses to the anti-gun crowd. WAKE UP! they want ALL of OUR guns, not half of them.

I am really getting sick of these people.