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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:52:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Offensive that US docs said would fail before it even began? Or the Offensive the Russians claimed has already failed? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, totally makes sense to blow a dam that is in your path of advance when you’re about to initiate an offensive.  The Offensive that US docs said would fail before it even began? Or the Offensive the Russians claimed has already failed? Willing to put a wager on it not being over? $100 to an organization of the winners choice seems fair. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:53:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. OPIR would see any such strike. It didn’t happen. It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:53:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because even that wouldn't be enough to get a total failure of the dam. Hitting the face with explosives will damage it but we are talking about something designed to hold back Billions of gallons of water. A big charge internally, or on the backside will cause the dam to fail, but would be much harder for Ukraine since the Russians have almost complete control of the dam. Gotta wait for actual evidence. If the Russians did it I'd expect our side will publish some evidence. Lack of evidence will be problematic. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:53:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Hmmm... Wonder who it could have been that blew the dam? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:53:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Blowing the dam hurts Russia far more than it helps. It makes no sense they would blow it. Same with the pipeline. Zero logic there. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:54:03 PM EDT
[#6]
The bad guys (Russia) use disinformation to make it seem like there is no good side. In reality, the good guys are the Ukrainians who are fighting because Russians are invading their ancestral homeland.
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:54:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Conservatives take note, Twitter is full of active and former US military personnel ecstatic about this strike
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:54:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Use several missiles, or pack up a maintenance truck full of demo the same way the Ukrainian intel services bombed the Crimean bridge. Who knows? People saying it could only be Russia or only be Ukraine still haven't explained NORD stream, or the UAV attacks, or the Dugin bombing. It is a war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The structure is over 3km long, and would take a lot more than a guided missile with a 500kg warhead to destroy the dam. Your looking at dam walls that are 10s to 100s of feet thick with concrete. So then how did Ukraine plant enough explosives at the site without Russian occupation forces noticing? Use several missiles, or pack up a maintenance truck full of demo the same way the Ukrainian intel services bombed the Crimean bridge. Who knows? People saying it could only be Russia or only be Ukraine still haven't explained NORD stream, or the UAV attacks, or the Dugin bombing. It is a war. Well I heard some folks saying the Dam could have just failed on its own. Through lack of maintenance and getting occasionally hit by shells. But then again, Russia didn't say "crap the dam collapsed on its own". They immediately said it was blown up. So who knows. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What difference does it make where they hit it? The fact is they did. The denial here is insane. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol. It’s like arguing with a liberal. Useless. Anyway the Ukrainians attacked their own damn last year and acknowledged they damaged their own dam. They hit the bridge over the lock on the side. You post a lot of clueless shit. What difference does it make where they hit it? The fact is they did. The denial here is insane. The difficulty Ukraine had with destroying that small bridge span is excellent evidence that Ukraine lacks the abilities and tools to rapidly cause enough damage to cause the massive multipoint failure observed with the dam. Further supporting this is the lack of marks of misses or other debris scattered around the remaining sections of the dam. Controlled demolition on the other hand would give exactly the results observed - especially with the Russians raising the water level to maximum before this. Quoted: It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. The twisting of facts is equally astounding. Ukraine did not simply shell or lob rockets at the dam. During the prep for the Kherson offensive they were extremely specific in what they targeted at this facility. They painstakingly took out a adjoining bridge and small causeway section that was separate from the dam's structure. If you bother to read and look up the specific locations they struck, it is clear they took great care to avoid structural damage to the dam itself. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:55:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yup. OPIR would see any such strike. It didn’t happen. It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. Have you any clue why Ukraine was shooting at the dam in 2022? No, obviously you do not. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:55:49 PM EDT
[#11]
The only question that really matters is "Who is going to pay to rebuild it and what company gets the contract?"
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:56:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm... Wonder who it could have been that blew the dam? Wonder if OP would consider that a plan and if that plan is any different than the other plan. What if they both blew it up at the same time, executing both plans? 
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:56:38 PM EDT
[#13]
 All the Ukraine fluffers are big mad at Tucker for stating the obvious. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:56:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know, right? Everybody knows the CIA did it, like they did the pipeline.  I fully expect a Seymour Hersch article along those lines. Not even joking. You know he's furiously typing up an outline as we speak. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:57:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yup. OPIR would see any such strike. It didn’t happen. It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. For the exact same reason russia likely blew it, to restrict the movement of troops. Ukraine was toying with the idea when they were still pushed out of Kherson and knew it could slow reinforcements. Russia likely blew it because now with Kherson being in Ukrainian hands on the right bank, this slows efforts to push further south. It’s not that hard. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:58:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Someone didn't get the memo. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:58:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I had to guess....probably the same way the "Ukrainians" blew up Nordstream.... the US NAVY  So your evidence for the current unsubstantiated claim... is a past unsubstantiated claim? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:59:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the Ukraine fluffers are big mad at Tucker for stating the obvious. You misspelled oblivious. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:59:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, there is no video of the dam actually being blown up. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 7:59:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zero logic there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Blowing the dam hurts Russia far more than it helps. It makes no sense they would blow it. Same with the pipeline. Zero logic there. Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:00:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only question that really matters is "Who is going to pay to rebuild it and what company gets the contract?"  ...
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:00:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because even that wouldn't be enough to get a total failure of the dam. Hitting the face with explosives will damage it but we are talking about something designed to hold back Billions of gallons of water. A big charge internally, or on the backside will cause the dam to fail, but would be much harder for Ukraine since the Russians have almost complete control of the dam. Yeah, a 1.5 km long dam is going to laugh off even a missile with a couple hundred pounds of explosives. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:01:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the Ukraine fluffers are big mad at Tucker for stating the obvious. All they can do is kill the messenger. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:01:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if OP would consider that a plan and if that plan is any different than the other plan. What if they both blew it up at the same time, executing both plans? Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if OP would consider that a plan and if that plan is any different than the other plan. What if they both blew it up at the same time, executing both plans? Anything is plausible but I highly doubt both countries pushed the button at the same time. Quoted: Have you any clue why Ukraine was shooting at the dam in 2022? So then simple logic would dictate that Ukraine could be the one that blew up their own dam, right? Keep going... you are almost there. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:01:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Troll makes a troll thread. Cucker Carlson is a Russian bot.
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:02:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Crimean agriculture depends on it, not the people of Crimea. Bit of a difference there, and a relatively short-term agriculture hit is an easy trade against preventing an offensive against poorly prepared russian lines... |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:03:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It did happen. Lol https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-fresh-russian-assault-west-braces-worsening-energy-crisis-2022-07-12/ The question you should be asking is why was Ukraine lobbing rockets at it's own dam in 2022? The dismissal of facts and history here is astounding. Did you read what you linked to? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:04:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything is plausible but I highly doubt both countries pushed the button at the same time. So then simple logic would dictate that Ukraine could be the one that blew up their own dam, right? Keep going... you are almost there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wonder if OP would consider that a plan and if that plan is any different than the other plan. What if they both blew it up at the same time, executing both plans? Anything is plausible but I highly doubt both countries pushed the button at the same time. Quoted: Have you any clue why Ukraine was shooting at the dam in 2022? So then simple logic would dictate that Ukraine could be the one that blew up their own dam, right? Keep going... you are almost there. I suspect they aren't the ones who aren't quite there... Simple logic would take most people to quite a different conclusion than the one you seem to postulate. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:04:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crimean agriculture depends on it, not the people of Crimea. Bit of a difference there, and a relatively short-term agriculture hit is an easy trade against preventing an offensive against poorly prepared russian lines... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Crimean agriculture depends on it, not the people of Crimea. Bit of a difference there, and a relatively short-term agriculture hit is an easy trade against preventing an offensive against poorly prepared russian lines... 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:05:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. 15% is enough for the plebs to survive on. Showering is for Nazis and weak westerners! You have to think in russian, bruh. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:06:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Crimean agriculture depends on it, not the people of Crimea. Bit of a difference there, and a relatively short-term agriculture hit is an easy trade against preventing an offensive against poorly prepared russian lines... 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. If they are worried about losing the peninsula, the water issue becomes secondary. Crimea got by without that water before, and it can do it again if it means not losing it entirely. 8 years without it. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:07:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 15% is enough for the plebs to survive on. Showering is for Nazis and weak westerners! You have to think in russian, bruh. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. 15% is enough for the plebs to survive on. Showering is for Nazis and weak westerners! You have to think in russian, bruh. That’s some Olympic level gymnastics there. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:08:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s some Olympic level gymnastics there. If so, I've certainly come to the right thread. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:09:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suspect they aren't the ones who aren't quite there... Simple logic would take most people to quite a different conclusion than the one you seem to postulate. No. Simple logic would dictate that Russia has/had more to lose with the dam being blown up. It does not make any rational sense for Russia to blow up a dam that they benefit from. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:09:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. I don't think that's true. I think it's 85% of the water, including industrial and agricultural use. I think the local sources are enough for residential use. After all, they went for years without it, and they had an adequate supply of water for homes. What it cost them was farms, they can't grow crops without water from that canal. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:10:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does blowing up the dam make the Ukrainian Counter Offensive easier or harder? It makes it easier to ask the USA for another 87 billion dollars! |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:10:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Simple logic would dictate that Russia has/had more to lose with the dam being blown up. It does not make any rational sense for Russia to blow up a dam that they benefit from. I agree. And since Russia has more to lose by leaving the dam intact.. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:10:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His Russian experts are as good a source as the Ukraine experts of Arfcom. He is plugged into the East Coast Ivy League network. What you hear from is is what those people are thinking and saying. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:11:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Simple logic would dictate that Russia has/had more to lose with the dam being blown up. It does not make any rational sense for Russia to blow up a dam that they benefit from. How much benefit were they going to get from the reservoir if Ukraine retook the canal that feeds Crimea from the reservoir? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:13:13 PM EDT
[#40]
A defiant President Volodymyr Zelenskyy held an emergency meeting of his National Security Council on Tuesday and blamed "Russian terrorists" for the dam explosion. In an address to the nation later in the day, Zelenskyy called the attack on the dam "an environmental bomb of mass destruction."
MORE: Ukrainian counteroffensive 'shaping-up' amid attempts to destabilize Russian forces "The whole world will know about this Russian war crime, the crime of ecocide," he said in his speech. "For the sake of their own security, the world should now show that Russia will not get away with such terror."  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:14:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Simple logic would dictate that Russia has/had more to lose with the dam being blown up. It does not make any rational sense for Russia to blow up a dam that they benefit from. Ukraine who are now prevented from launching an offensive to the south have far more to lose than russia. Not to mention the impacts on Kherson due to flooding. Russia benefits from this more. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:15:12 PM EDT
[#42]
The way the Russians are doing, my bet some dumb ass was drunk and fell over accidentally pushed the button. Think, Homer Simpson at the control panel.
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:16:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Blowing the dam hurts Russia far more than it helps. It makes no sense they would blow it. Same with the pipeline. Zero logic there. Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Are you aware of what is happening there, right now? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:18:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. He said they Ukrainians don't control the dam. Russia controls it so why would they blow it up? I guess that's a good point. If Russia controls it, couldn't they do the same thing by just opening all the floodgates? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:18:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 85% of the drinking water in Crimea comes from the reservoir. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:18:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So then simple logic would dictate that Ukraine could be the one that blew up their own dam, right? Keep going... you are almost there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Have you any clue why Ukraine was shooting at the dam in 2022? So then simple logic would dictate that Ukraine could be the one that blew up their own dam, right? Keep going... you are almost there. That’s not logic. It ignores (or displays ignorance of) the actual situation on the ground then AND now. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:19:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much benefit were they going to get from the reservoir if Ukraine retook the canal that feeds Crimea from the reservoir? That's quite a hypothetical but I'll play. "Ukraine would not stop the flow of water to Crimeans because Ukraine are the good guys here and clearly claim the moral high ground in this war. They would never let people starve or die from lack of water. The Ukrainians would never needlessly hurt others. Right? "  Can't believe I typed that, LOL. Right? The Ukes are the good guys? |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:19:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Well if he says so it must be true, bonjour.
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:19:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you aware of what is happening there, right now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Blowing the dam hurts Russia far more than it helps. It makes no sense they would blow it. Same with the pipeline. Zero logic there. Russia controls the power plant. Crimea depends on the water from the reservoir. It's in their best interests to keep the dam intact. Are you aware of what is happening there, right now? It's 0318hrs. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:19:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was that the same claim where they posted proof of their repulsion of the counter offensive by destroying some farm equipment and calling it tanks? Claimed "Leopard" kill by Russia: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fx8huIFagAMso70?format=jpg&name=small Those damn Russkies took out the Master Blaster vehicle!  
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