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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:51:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. So, he's pretty much correct on any issue he speaks about (guns, liberty, government, global warming, martial arts, etc) but he's not allowed to not believe in god? He can believe whatever he wants. I just think it's funny that Atheists, who pride themselves on the power of their own minds, don't believe in God because "science hasn't proved it yet." If their powerful minds can't fathom of a god, why then that must mean that God doesn't exist. Because if God did exist, surely minds of their immense caliber would sense it. Tedious and egotistical. I get your shtick, but you're not really fooling anyone. The strictest believer in alien abduction could use the same approach you are and try to put themselves on equal footing with people who don't believe in it. Doesn't win them any points, either. Most atheists won't say there is no God, they'll say there's absolutely no evidence of one and that in particular the current ideas put forth by various religions are completely outside the realm of plausibility and logic.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:54:37 PM EDT
[#2]
If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:55:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Works for me. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 1:57:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Getting worked up over the final destination of someone else's soul, isn't a productive use of time or energy.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:02:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Getting worked up over the final destination of someone else's soul any facet of another individuals life or life choices that has no direct bearing on your own, isn't a productive use of time or energy. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Yup, he is a respectful person. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:06:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Most libertarians (that I converse with at least) have the mindset of live and let live. The only people that I harbor any ill will to are people who wish to use force against me. I find that most people who identify as libertarian are extremely accepting of others and different viewpoints. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:09:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:12:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Most libertarians (that I converse with at least) have the mindset of live and let live. The only people that I harbor any ill will to are people who wish to use force against me. I find that most people who identify as libertarian are extremely accepting of others and different viewpoints. As am I. I know a couple of atheists who might profess to be "libertarian" but always vote democrat....when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". We are all different and unique people. It's as wrong to force people into being an atheist like you as it is to use the very same distasteful things to try to get people to be "Christian".
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:15:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. Small and simple minded? Yet smart enough to know that omnipotence is impossible! Simple question, can god microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself cannot eat it? Why should you believe anything if it can't be proven? You have closed yourself off from facts and evidence in exchange for a thousand year old story made up by goat herders to explain what they couldn't understand. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:18:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Most libertarians (that I converse with at least) have the mindset of live and let live. The only people that I harbor any ill will to are people who wish to use force against me. I find that most people who identify as libertarian are extremely accepting of others and different viewpoints. As am I. I know a couple of atheists who might profess to be "libertarian" but always vote democrat....when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". We are all different and unique people. It's as wrong to force people into being an atheist like you as it is to use the very same distasteful things to try to get people to be "Christian". That said - should I also not judge the intelligence of the guy under the overpass who tells me that each of us has a tiny alien in our brains that controls our actions, and that we were all put here 200 years ago with a falsely implanted set of memories regarding history and a carefully staged world? If you believe in magic I do not respect your beliefs, I find them silly. But that's OK - lots of people believe lots of silly stuff.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:19:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. Small and simple minded? Yet smart enough to know that omnipotence is impossible! Simple question, can god microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself cannot eat it? Why should you believe anything if it can't be proven? You have closed yourself off from facts and evidence in exchange for a thousand year old story made up by goat herders to explain what they couldn't understand. Shits about to get real in here. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:20:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. Handing over your life and beliefs to something that which you have absolutely no evidence for would, in my opinion, be foolish. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:23:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: There's a huge difference in professing a nutball belief like you described, and believing in something that has deep cultural and societal roots by a large segment of the population. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If anyone knows Penn Jillette, they would know that he has no ill will toward Christians. I mean, fuck, he's one of Glenn Beck's best friends. I really would wish the militant atheists would can it and just work toward getting along instead of trying to disparage folks. Most libertarians (that I converse with at least) have the mindset of live and let live. The only people that I harbor any ill will to are people who wish to use force against me. I find that most people who identify as libertarian are extremely accepting of others and different viewpoints. As am I. I know a couple of atheists who might profess to be "libertarian" but always vote democrat....when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". We are all different and unique people. It's as wrong to force people into being an atheist like you as it is to use the very same distasteful things to try to get people to be "Christian". That said - should I also not judge the intelligence of the guy under the overpass who tells me that each of us has a tiny alien in our brains that controls our actions, and that we were all put here 200 years ago with a falsely implanted set of memories regarding history and a carefully staged world? If you believe in magic I do not respect your beliefs, I find them silly. But that's OK - lots of people believe lots of silly stuff. Someone professing Christianity, should not be indicted as being "dumb", just like the atheist should not be indicted as being "bad and evil".
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Penn lost me at AK-15. Well actually lost me at how he spoke of O, but AK-15 was
 but I held on for the end which I thought was funny - regarding the rosetta stone.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:26:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I like him for the most part but he acts like a fundie when it comes to his religion. You like Obama except he acts like a fundie? What In the F! |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:27:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: I like him for the most part but he acts like a fundie when it comes to his religion. You like Obama except he acts like a fundie? What In the F! WTF indeed. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:27:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: sorry, you mispelled theist.No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:28:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Penn lost me at AK-15. Well actually lost me at how he spoke of O, but AK-15 was but I held on for the end which I thought was funny - regarding the rosetta stone.He's not a gun guy. Doesn't really own any (well, except for the one he uses for his Bullet Catch trick, but shit...Teller might own that, for all I know). Anyway. he vigorously supports your right to own whatever you want. He's a 2A absolutist. I don't mind being people dumb about guns. I only mind when they're dumb AND want to start writing laws (Carolyn McCarthy comes to mind)...
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:30:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
sorry, you mispelled theist.
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. Some religious crazies have adopted a method to attack non-believers by saying they have a religion. "See! Atheism is a religion! Ha ha you're religious too!" It doesn't make any sense at all. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:33:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: sorry, you mispelled theist.No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. Some religious crazies have adopted a method to attack non-believers by saying they have a religion. "See! Atheism is a religion! Ha ha you're religious too!" It doesn't make any sense at all. Its about semantics. They like to pretend that all definitions of a word are equivalent. Unfortunately for them they aren't. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:35:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: sorry, you mispelled theist.No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. Some religious crazies have adopted a method to attack non-believers by saying they have a religion. "See! Atheism is a religion! Ha ha you're religious too!" It doesn't make any sense at all. It's a belief system just like religion. The issue is that some act like fundamentalists about that belief system. Who cares if a cross is here or there, or mentions God? It doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg. I didn't make it very far in the video. The idea that Obama has purely good intentions is naive to me. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:38:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: sorry, you mispelled theist.No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. Some religious crazies have adopted a method to attack non-believers by saying they have a religion. "See! Atheism is a religion! Ha ha you're religious too!" It doesn't make any sense at all. It's a belief system just like religion. The issue is that some act like fundamentalists about that belief system. Who cares if a cross is here or there, or mentions God? It doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg. I didn't make it very far in the video. The idea that Obama has purely good intentions is naive to me. Actually no its not. Atheism means they don't believe in a god. That's it. It absolutely lacks all elements than every other religion (deities, rituals, temples, texts, doctrine, etc). If atheism is a religion, then not not collecting stamps is a hobby. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:46:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: sorry, you mispelled theist.No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every theist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I mean, its clear you are talking about believers, because atheism isn't a religion, so you've got to be talking about theists. Some religious crazies have adopted a method to attack non-believers by saying they have a religion. "See! Atheism is a religion! Ha ha you're religious too!" It doesn't make any sense at all. It's a belief system just like religion. The issue is that some act like fundamentalists about that belief system. Who cares if a cross is here or there, or mentions God? It doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg. I didn't make it very far in the video. The idea that Obama has purely good intentions is naive to me. Actually no its not. Atheism means they don't believe in a god. That's it. It absolutely lacks all elements than every other religion (deities, rituals, temples, texts, doctrine, etc). If atheism is a religion, then not not collecting stamps is a hobby I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:51:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That said - should I also not judge the intelligence of the guy under the overpass who tells me that each of us has a tiny alien in our brains that controls our actions, and that we were all put here 200 years ago with a falsely implanted set of memories regarding history and a carefully staged world? If you believe in magic I do not respect your beliefs, I find them silly. But that's OK - lots of people believe lots of silly stuff. There's a huge difference in professing a nutball belief like you described, and believing in something that has deep cultural and societal roots by a large segment of the population. Someone professing Christianity, should not be indicted as being "dumb", just like the atheist should not be indicted as being "bad and evil". So, the only real difference is that one has been around a long time and is believed by a lot of people, so therefor don't criticize. Talking snakes and all. 
when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". Amish people don't bother me, so I don't talk smack about 'em. Same with Buddhists, etc. They have their beliefs and they don't try to legislate them into law. Never heard of an Amish person trying to ban everybody from driving cars because it's against their beliefs. Now, bible thumpers on the other hand...................... .........and the Amish are Christians too. I never really got how Evangelicals/Protestants/Catholics get the whole busy-body thing. If everybody isn't abiding by their God's rules, they're pissed. Have your faith, if you want. Don't push it on others. Can't say that I ever "viciously verbally attacked" (as some say in this thread) any Buddhists/Amish/Hindus/Taoists/etc....... even if they do have beliefs that I don't find plausible. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 2:53:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. He's not affirming his lack of belief, as much as he is addressing (to no avail, it seems) the common platitude that atheism is a religion, too. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:02:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Atheism is not a religion, nor is it like a religion. All religions have certain features in common, such a god (or many) that created the world, an eternal soul burdened with weight of past evil actions,
some regime of prescribed thoughts or actions that will cleanse the soul from impurity, a special place or state where there is divine balance restored and infintie happiness or invulnerable peace, and a prophetic view about the eventual fate of the world and humanity. Atheists essentially say that there seems to be no evidence for god and thus no basis to go beyond a scientific explanation of reality. There is no god and there is no soul; The End. Nothing more is required. Atheims is not a religion, rather it is the absence of religion. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:02:56 PM EDT
[#28]
There's a small woman that lives in the dashboard of my car. She gives me driving instructions. She can't be more than an inch tall.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:06:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I like him for the most part but he acts like a fundie when it comes to his religion. do you enjoy not collecting stamps? 
Do you fervently deride stamp collecting and viciously insult stamp collectors, while you yourself collect owl scat? Most atheists I know are stuffed full of religious fervor.
__________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). Libertardians: maximizing libertarian losses since 2008. «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:09:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Here, conflict yourselves.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:12:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: How cute, a signature! It's like it's 1995 all over again!Quoted: Quoted: I like him for the most part but he acts like a fundie when it comes to his religion. do you enjoy not collecting stamps? Do you fervently deride stamp collecting and viciously insult stamp collectors, while you yourself collect owl scat? Most atheists I know are stuffed full of religious fervor. __________________________________________________________________ Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread). Libertardians: maximizing libertarian losses since 2008. «nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus» Anyway, in your attempt at false equivalence you're failing to grasp a core difference: "atheism" is a label that gets applied because the "default" is to believe in magic. Atheists have no specific beliefs regarding any supernatural beings other than there being no evidence for their existence. I don't believe in magical pixie fairies who live in cow shit either. If there was a cool term for people who don't happen to believe in said fairies, I'd be labeled that as well. What's your point? |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:12:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fingernail polish? He explained in a hannity interview that he wears his fathers ring on his right hand to remember him, and his mothers favorite nail polish on the other hand to remember her. Ancestor Worship |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:13:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. So, he's pretty much correct on any issue he speaks about (guns, liberty, government, global warming, martial arts, etc) but he's not allowed to not believe in god? He can believe whatever he wants. I just think it's funny that Atheists, who pride themselves on the power of their own minds, don't believe in God because "science hasn't proved it yet." If their powerful minds can't fathom of a god, why then that must mean that God doesn't exist. Because if God did exist, surely minds of their immense caliber would sense it. Tedious and egotistical. I think you need to reassess your ideas about Penn Jillette and atheism. I'm not an atheist. I consider myself agnostic, but I'm sure many people here would lump me into the same group. The simple fact is a lot of people don't believe the same way you do and don't believe there is compelling evidence that shows there is an omnipotent/omniscient being that created the universe. It has nothing to do with not being able to comprehend or understand the idea. It's just that it makes no sense to some people. To you it does. For you, tradition of a particular religion and an ancient book and maybe some sort of experiences you've had (real or perceived) is enough for you to believe. People's brains are wired differently. That is the human race for you. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:15:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Actually no its not. Atheism means they don't believe in a god. That's it. It absolutely lacks all elements than every other religion (deities, rituals, temples, texts, doctrine, etc). If atheism is a religion, then not not collecting stamps is a hobby I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. I know plenty of atheists, and I've not seen a single one who takes it to the level of dogma. Religious people love to talk about these mythical atheists, but like unicorns, I've never been able to see one. ETA::Oh, and as subnet said. I'm not affirming my lack of beliefs, I'm here demonstrating that you, and others, are wrong by falsely calling my skeptical non-beleif a "religion" when nothing is further from the truth. It would be like me calling you a racist, and when you try to say that you're not a racist, and then me saying "if you're not a racist, then how come you are trying to show us you're not."  |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:19:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That said - should I also not judge the intelligence of the guy under the overpass who tells me that each of us has a tiny alien in our brains that controls our actions, and that we were all put here 200 years ago with a falsely implanted set of memories regarding history and a carefully staged world? If you believe in magic I do not respect your beliefs, I find them silly. But that's OK - lots of people believe lots of silly stuff. There's a huge difference in professing a nutball belief like you described, and believing in something that has deep cultural and societal roots by a large segment of the population. Someone professing Christianity, should not be indicted as being "dumb", just like the atheist should not be indicted as being "bad and evil". So, the only real difference is that one has been around a long time and is believed by a lot of people, so therefor don't criticize. Talking snakes and all. when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". Amish people don't bother me, so I don't talk smack about 'em. Same with Buddhists, etc. They have their beliefs and they don't try to legislate them into law. Never heard of an Amish person trying to ban everybody from driving cars because it's against their beliefs. Now, bible thumpers on the other hand...................... .........and the Amish are Christians too. I never really got how Evangelicals/Protestants/Catholics get the whole busy-body thing. If everybody isn't abiding by their God's rules, they're pissed. Have your faith, if you want. Don't push it on others. Can't say that I ever "viciously verbally attacked" (as some say in this thread) any Buddhists/Amish/Hindus/Taoists/etc....... even if they do have beliefs that I don't find plausible. There's no real reason to be critical unless it is affecting your own life. Just leave people alone. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:19:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Check the mirror. Quoted: Actually no its not. Atheism means they don't believe in a god. That's it. It absolutely lacks all elements than every other religion (deities, rituals, temples, texts, doctrine, etc). If atheism is a religion, then not not collecting stamps is a hobby I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. I know plenty of atheists, and I've not seen a single one who takes it to the level of dogma. Religious people love to talk about these mythical atheists, but like unicorns, I've never been able to see one. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:23:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Check the mirror. Quoted: Actually no its not. Atheism means they don't believe in a god. That's it. It absolutely lacks all elements than every other religion (deities, rituals, temples, texts, doctrine, etc). If atheism is a religion, then not not collecting stamps is a hobby I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. I know plenty of atheists, and I've not seen a single one who takes it to the level of dogma. Religious people love to talk about these mythical atheists, but like unicorns, I've never been able to see one. Wrong. I have no dogma. I'm sorry that you can't see this. Maybe you are projecting? All of my positions are independently reached, logically consistent, and based on evidence. Where are my "faith based" beliefs are that based on pure emotion, intuition and dogma? I'll wait for you to produce one. Actually no I won't, because I don't have any. I realize that believers, like yourself, like to legitimize your unreasonable jumps to conclusions by pretending that other people, like myself, do the same. Unfortunately for you this is entirely not true, and the only people you fool with these types of statements are people like yourself. It makes you feel better that "hey, those other people don't actually have reasonable opinions...no, they are just as irrational as me." |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:23:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
There's no real reason to be critical unless it is affecting your own life. Just leave people alone. You really haven't seen the "bible thumping" versions of Christians NOT affecting people's lives? Like I said, I (and many other atheists) don't talk smack about the Amish and the Buddhist. They leave others alone........... bible thumpers on the other hand............. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:26:37 PM EDT
[#39]
ost
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:31:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That said - should I also not judge the intelligence of the guy under the overpass who tells me that each of us has a tiny alien in our brains that controls our actions, and that we were all put here 200 years ago with a falsely implanted set of memories regarding history and a carefully staged world? If you believe in magic I do not respect your beliefs, I find them silly. But that's OK - lots of people believe lots of silly stuff. There's a huge difference in professing a nutball belief like you described, and believing in something that has deep cultural and societal roots by a large segment of the population. Someone professing Christianity, should not be indicted as being "dumb", just like the atheist should not be indicted as being "bad and evil". So, the only real difference is that one has been around a long time and is believed by a lot of people, so therefor don't criticize. Talking snakes and all. when they drive by a packed church they think "look at all of those fools". When I drive by a packed church I think "man, those folks look like they are having a good time on a Sunday afternoon". Amish people don't bother me, so I don't talk smack about 'em. Same with Buddhists, etc. They have their beliefs and they don't try to legislate them into law. Never heard of an Amish person trying to ban everybody from driving cars because it's against their beliefs. Now, bible thumpers on the other hand...................... .........and the Amish are Christians too. I never really got how Evangelicals/Protestants/Catholics get the whole busy-body thing. If everybody isn't abiding by their God's rules, they're pissed. Have your faith, if you want. Don't push it on others. Can't say that I ever "viciously verbally attacked" (as some say in this thread) any Buddhists/Amish/Hindus/Taoists/etc....... even if they do have beliefs that I don't find plausible. There's no real reason to be critical unless it is affecting your own life. Just leave people alone. Agreed, and I don't go out of my way to bring up religion and mock people most of the time. There's a Ugandan Jehovah's witness, of all people, who works where I work. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met and he doesn't look at me funny if I curse, go out of his way to blather about his beliefs, tell me how evil I am to celebrate holidays, etc... He's just a quiet, respectful, hard working guy. I have 0 issue with his beliefs. But some people just need a good mockin', frankly, and sometimes it does affect people. You don't think gays have been negatively affected by people of faith?
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:42:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers.
He's not affirming his lack of belief, as much as he is addressing (to no avail, it seems) the common platitude that atheism is a religion, too. It's not a religion. However, it is "religious" in that it's a belief that cannot be proven (by definition, because it's a negative). I suspect that most ( or at least a lot of) "atheists" who are smart and reasonable people are really agnostic. It would take a lot of arrogance (like that of my own brother) to declare with certainty that there is no supreme being, period. The truth really is that we don't know. As I've mentioned before and elsewhere, religion can be beneficial to individuals in a lot of different and very important ways. I've never heard an argument that believing there is no god is beneficial or comforting or an aid in living a good life. When a loved one is taking their dying breath, is it better to have the belief that they are going to heaven and you'll see them again, or that they are just gonna be worm food and that's it? It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Life is largely about perception and belief. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:45:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's no real reason to be critical unless it is affecting your own life. Just leave people alone. You really haven't seen the "bible thumping" versions of Christians NOT affecting people's lives? Like I said, I (and many other atheists) don't talk smack about the Amish and the Buddhist. They leave others alone........... bible thumpers on the other hand............. There is no shortage of humans who want to tell other humans what they may or may not do/think/have/see/say. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:46:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Penn lost me at AK-15. Well actually lost me at how he spoke of O, but AK-15 was but I held on for the end which I thought was funny - regarding the rosetta stone.He's not a gun guy. Doesn't really own any (well, except for the one he uses for his Bullet Catch trick, but shit...Teller might own that, for all I know). Anyway. he vigorously supports your right to own whatever you want. He's a 2A absolutist. I don't mind being people dumb about guns. I only mind when they're dumb AND want to start writing laws (Carolyn McCarthy comes to mind)... I don't think it's a matter of being a gun guy, Jilette was being deliberately contradictory about the type of gun in his hypothetical situation. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what each are, and was making a deliberate attempt to highlight that the type of gun used in his hypothetical is irrelevant, it's the heinous act of killing innocents that was the relevant part of that hypothetical. There isn't anyone in the US that does not know (or think they know) what an Ak47 is. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:51:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Every christian is an Athiest, I just believe in one less god than you.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:53:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers.
He's not affirming his lack of belief, as much as he is addressing (to no avail, it seems) the common platitude that atheism is a religion, too. It's not a religion. However, it is "religious" in that it's a belief that cannot be proven (by definition, because it's a negative). I suspect that most ( or at least a lot of) "atheists" who are smart and reasonable people are really agnostic. It would take a lot of arrogance (like that of my own brother) to declare with certainty that there is no supreme being, period. The truth really is that we don't know. As I've mentioned before and elsewhere, religion can be beneficial to individuals in a lot of different and very important ways. I've never heard an argument that believing there is no god is beneficial or comforting or an aid in living a good life. When a loved one is taking their dying breath, is it better to have the belief that they are going to heaven and you'll see them again, or that they are just gonna be worm food and that's it? It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Life is largely about perception and belief. Penn makes a point in his book that you are either a believer or atheist, there is no middle ground. You either believe that there is a deity or you dont, someone who self describes as an agnostic does not believe that there is a deity and is really an atheist. Atheism doenst mean that you will forever believe there is no deity, just that you dont currently believe. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:55:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. So atheists refuse to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to them, but they have religion? How's that work? If you think atheists believe in omnipotence of the human mind, that's about as valid as believing a man in the sky and his zombie son. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers. He's not affirming his lack of belief, as much as he is addressing (to no avail, it seems) the common platitude that atheism is a religion, too. It's not a religion. However, it is "religious" in that it's a belief that cannot be proven (by definition, because it's a negative). I suspect that most ( or at least a lot of) "atheists" who are smart and reasonable people are really agnostic. It would take a lot of arrogance (like that of my own brother) to declare with certainty that there is no supreme being, period. The truth really is that we don't know. As I've mentioned before and elsewhere, religion can be beneficial to individuals in a lot of different and very important ways. I've never heard an argument that believing there is no god is beneficial or comforting or an aid in living a good life. When a loved one is taking their dying breath, is it better to have the belief that they are going to heaven and you'll see them again, or that they are just gonna be worm food and that's it? It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Life is largely about perception and belief. In the spirit of education (and that's all it is - it's the only reason I participate in these threads at all), you can actually be both. Most people I know define agnosticism as addressing what can be known, and atheism as addressing what is believed. That leads people like me to say I'm an agnostic atheist. I can't know there is no God (which makes me agnostic), but neither do I believe in one (which makes me atheist). I'll admit, it's splitting hairs. My parents are very, very Christian, and they think of me as an agnostic. It's not technically correct, but in the spirit of harmony, I go with it. To them, atheism means "No hope" and agnosticism means "There's a chance!". But anyway, there you go. Belief vs knowledge. That's the distinction. When I say atheism, I'm referring to what is believed (or not believed, really), rather than what can be known. And this applies to most every intelligent non-believer I know. So really if you think about it, you could call me either an atheist or an agnostic, and it wouldn't effectively matter. I live my life under the (subject to change) assumption that there is no God, so I suppose it really doesn't matter what label you put on it. The result is identical. I prefer non-believer, in case anybody cares. If you want to go full geek with it, I suppose I could find an agnostic theist - somebody who acknowledges the possibility that God may not exist, but currently believes in him just the same, when asked. Pascal might have been one of these, when he formulated his famous wager.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:58:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
One of many times, I disagree with Penn. I'd say that Obama definitely has malice in his heart for the USA. When listening to him it's important to realize he is a con artist. Everything he says - everything - is specifically said for a purpose. He's creating an image in your mind, so that in the end, when he delivers the "hook", you'll accept what he has said as truth; you'll feel as if you had actually come to the conclusions yourself. He's good at what he does but when you realize what he is doing it's much harder for him to get through. Who? "Jesus"? Agreed |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 4:02:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
No, Penn Jillette, you're not a "big thinker." Like every Atheist, you're small and simple-minded, refusing to believe in anything unless it's spelled out to you. You believe in the omnipotence of your human mind rather than in an outside omnipotence. Your religion is boring and based in pessimism. And you wear fingernail polish. Yawn. I take offense at everything you just said here. We disagree on some things, but that does not make me "small or simple minded." It makes us disagree on the origin of man. That is it. You are just pissed that I don't believe what you do, and are trying to be condescending towards my outlook, as is natural for mankind (to do when they disagree with something, but have no real logic to back it up). If you were truly following your own beliefs, you would not speak in such a way. Such uncouth language makes you look bad. |
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Posted: 11/12/2012 4:05:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just observe that many take it to the level of dogma, and yet you are here, affirming your lack of belief to the believers.
He's not affirming his lack of belief, as much as he is addressing (to no avail, it seems) the common platitude that atheism is a religion, too. It's not a religion. However, it is "religious" in that it's a belief that cannot be proven (by definition, because it's a negative). I suspect that most ( or at least a lot of) "atheists" who are smart and reasonable people are really agnostic. It would take a lot of arrogance (like that of my own brother) to declare with certainty that there is no supreme being, period. The truth really is that we don't know. As I've mentioned before and elsewhere, religion can be beneficial to individuals in a lot of different and very important ways. I've never heard an argument that believing there is no god is beneficial or comforting or an aid in living a good life. When a loved one is taking their dying breath, is it better to have the belief that they are going to heaven and you'll see them again, or that they are just gonna be worm food and that's it? It doesn't matter if it's true or not. Life is largely about perception and belief. Penn makes a point in his book that you are either a believer or atheist, there is no middle ground. You either believe that there is a deity or you dont, someone who self describes as an agnostic does not believe that there is a deity and is really an atheist. Atheism doenst mean that you will forever believe there is no deity, just that you dont currently believe. I suppose, from the point of view of a Christian, that's correct. If youre not a believer, you're a non believer and "going to hell". From a non believer's standpoint (speaking from a scientific one) we can only say that it can't be proven either way, so we do not know. |
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