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Posted: 12/13/2013 8:24:04 AM EST
I'm just getting started on this and firearms in general and thought I'd ask for opinions from folks that have thought this through or built their collection. I'm not really seriously gearing up for the apocolypse per say, but I have and are purchasing some firearms and just want to build a complementary collection which will have have some overlapping of range of engagement and step out from short to long range...lets say from 1 to 800 yards. And this is for an inexperienced marksman (in training). And keeping in mind a SHTF scenerio seems perfectly reasonable for this exercise.

In my untrained mind, I would have thought the following:
- 9mm semi auto pistol (I have a Gock 19 gen 4, Walter PPK, S&W .38, S&W .357mag)
- Shutgun (I don't have...except some old rusty looking thing)
- AR15 semi auto .223/.556 (I have Colt 6920 1-7 16" BBL, Stag 3g 1-8 18" BBL, plus AK47)
. I could setup the Colt as CQB with a aimpoint red dot pro or a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 illuminated (semi red dot) scope to give me good magnification out to 200-300yrds.
. I could setup the Stag as a SPR medium range with a Vortex Viper PST 2.4-10x44 illuminated scope to give me more accuracy maybe out to 500yrds.
. Bonus CQB, MAC-90 Chinese AK47 7.62x39 converted to tactical furniture.
- .308 long range rifle, counter sniper with a higher powered scope (I don't have)
. I have glanced at these some, such as...
- Rugar Scout - Doesn't look like the best choice for long range like out to 1000yrd (I know I said 800yrd, but better 1000yrds capable, but dialed back to 800yrds).
- AR10 .308 - Looks interesting (I wish an AR10 upper could fit on my AR15 bottoms!).
- Get a 300 Blackout round upper for my Colt (I don't know if this is a good idea...ammo available and dependable?...I read about some jams)
- Russion VEPR - I like the look of this one, AK dependability but better made. But I red not as accurate as AR10 further out.
- Anything else here that someone would suggest? I do lke mag fed.

What do you guys think, am I much off the mark? If SHTF and I was your friendly neighbor, what would you hope I brought to the table?

Also, I'm a little stacked in the close to medium range...would you suggest selling/traiding in my Colt for a .308? Or do I really need a .308? The ammo looks more expensive and if most engagements are within 100yrds and well within 500yrds, am I much better served with 2 AR15 + 1 AK47 instead of adding a .308? And If a .308 is highly recommended to round out the defensive systems...which one? Or is the consenses to remain stacked with the medium range rifles as one could never have enough of those but try to add a .308 when funds come available...in other words, keep the Colt, Stag, AK. Immediate family is 4, me and 3 ladies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 8:27:21 AM EST
Do you have any food or water preps?
Have you done much training with your firearms?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 8:38:13 AM EST
No to food/water prep or training. I'm not really prepping in the total sense. I am more just getting into firearms and shooting/training. I plan on taking pistol and AR15 training in the next few months as well as lots of range time. So, right now, the question is only about the firearms aspect of it. As I am adding to my collection of firearms and things like optics/scopes, I am trying to keep in mind an overall stragegy so that its smart and well rounded. It may lead to the other prepping later, but not just yet. In a real SHTF, I may only have days of survival with no feed/water, but maybe one of you prepped out dudes will look at what arsenal I have to offer for your SHTF hideout and let me in to help defend it!
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 9:06:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
No to food/water prep or training. I'm not really prepping in the total sense. I am more just getting into firearms and shooting/training. I plan on taking pistol and AR15 training in the next few months as well as lots of range time. So, right now, the question is only about the firearms aspect of it. As I am adding to my collection of firearms and things like optics/scopes, I am trying to keep in mind an overall stragegy so that its smart and well rounded. It may lead to the other prepping later, but not just yet. In a real SHTF, I may only have days of survival with no feed/water, but maybe one of you prepped out dudes will look at what arsenal I have to offer for your SHTF hideout and let me in to help defend it!
View Quote
Not likely I would let a totals stranger with a bunch of tacticool weapons and no training or food/water/med supplies into my camp.

If you like collecting guns, cool. Have fun.

If you want to collect weapons for SHTF, see up one line.

You need 2-3 weapons for SHTF. Rifle, pistol, shotty/SPR. This is per person/shooter. Well, just a pistol is all you NEED, I guess. Spares are nice, but some key parts are good as well.

A 20 foot rack of tacticool ARs in your man cave doesn't do shit with no training, ammo or if you have already starved to death.

Start packing mylar bags of beans with the rest of us . Seriously, 99% of the time, a SHTF event doesn't require firearms at all.


Link Posted: 12/13/2013 9:13:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
No to food/water prep or training. I'm not really prepping in the total sense. I am more just getting into firearms and shooting/training. I plan on taking pistol and AR15 training in the next few months as well as lots of range time. So, right now, the question is only about the firearms aspect of it. As I am adding to my collection of firearms and things like optics/scopes, I am trying to keep in mind an overall stragegy so that its smart and well rounded. It may lead to the other prepping later, but not just yet. In a real SHTF, I may only have days of survival with no feed/water, but maybe one of you prepped out dudes will look at what arsenal I have to offer for your SHTF hideout and let me in to help defend it!
View Quote


*sighs* .....what weapons do you have already?? you should be more worried about food and water, your SHTF wet dream is likely to be arid..
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 9:35:41 AM EST
Just some thoughts:
1. Keep the Colt 6920, dump the Stag
2. Keep the hand guns, what you have is plenty for the time being.
3. Forget the .308 and long range sniper rifle for now.
4. Stock up on long term food stuffs, water, water, and more water.
5. Individual first aid supplies (IFAK).
6. Ammunition for what weapons you keep.
7. Training, training, training.
8. Did I mention training?
I'm sure others will be along with some more very useful comments, but OP you kind of asked for this.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 9:49:14 AM EST
Hey, better to ask a stupid question and learn then be afraid to ask and maintain the status quo. I get it, I'm good on firearms, spend the money on long term food/water, training to use what I have, ammo, supplies. Why the Colt over the Stag?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 9:54:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rvnvet:
Just some thoughts:
1. Keep the Colt 6920, dump the Stag
2. Keep the hand guns, what you have is plenty for the time being.
3. Forget the .308 and long range sniper rifle for now.
4. Stock up on long term food stuffs, water, water, and more water.
5. Individual first aid supplies (IFAK).
6. Ammunition for what weapons you keep.
7. Training, training, training.
8. Did I mention training?
I'm sure others will be along with some more very useful comments, but OP you kind of asked for this.
View Quote

Its hard with so many people still in "PREP STAGE 1" (prep stage 1 being: "OMG! S can actually HTF! I need to protect myself!") and coming into the stage of "Awakened". Since you can never become un-awakened, the natural reflex is to first have tons-o-weapons. I think this is natural, and won't go away.

That said, a reminder of the rule of 3's should be first brought to the attention of the "newbie".

OP: What will be the most likely bad thing to happen? What do you need to survive it? Keep going to less and less likely. You will find weapons pretty far down on your list of solutions. Most often you need food/shelter/water/energy.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:19:34 AM EST
Get a handgun and a ccw permit. Pay for some training. Gonna cost more than a few bucks to get ammo for that training and good training is not free.

Learn how to care for you handgun and the training will show you what stuff you may or may not want on it. I like night sites on my stuff and a mounted flashlight would be nice but I have not talked myself into that yet. Headed that way.

Common spare parts to keep your handgun running are all part of the above. Your ability to keep the thing working is a big deal.

Rifle comes next in my opinion but some folks prefer a shotgun and as long as someone gets a firearm and learns to use it and takes a class to learn to use it well, I leave it alone. Same goes for spare parts and tools and aftermarket options for firearms.

I also agree on the posts already telling you to stock 2 weeks of food and water and a way to shelter yourself if your place burned down or the roof blew off in a hurricane or tornado or something.

Even common gov websites recomend 2 weeks and if the gov. recomends 2 weeks I would just double it.

You showing up with an arsenal may or may not work. this is a gun board, how many people are probably well armed on this board?

How are you going to travel with your arsenal?

One person can't defend against a decent attack from several people and you might lose your arsenal.

A ccw handgun you carry and use and know will solve most self defense issues. A rifle for bump in the night stuff should solve the rest.

All the other firearms are nice for the gun hobby but an arsenal won't feed you during a shtf event.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:20:32 AM EST
Buy ammo and extra mags NOW. Prices are down and they are fairly available. I didn't see a .22lr rifle mentioned, get 1 of those. I'd suggest a Ruger 10/22 with a few RUGER BX-25 mags. Yes .22 ammo is still hard to come by but it's getting better.

Pick a caliber and stick with it. You have 2 ARs, stock 5.56. Learn to use iron sights. Buy 2 pistols the same, you can't go wrong with a Glock in 9mm or .40 BUY extra mags NOW.

Check Craigslist for plastic barrels for water storage. Be sure to get food grade and make sure what they originally held.

The Mormons have decent prices on #10 cans of food, check their online site or if you have a storehouse close SOME will let you buy direct. I'd call and ask first.

Costco, Sam's club and usually Asian stores have good prices on rice, buy white not brown. Brown will go rancid. Check with a local bakery on 5gal buckets. Buy Mylar bags online. Plenty of YouTube videos on putting this all together. Do the same for beans and pasta. Include salt and sugar into buckets. Other spices as well.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:22:55 AM EST
I went with a semi auto rifle and pistol for every family member capable of handling each safely. (All the other guns are nice to have's)

Get yourself some face to face training with a pro. Even if its just a friend who's a cop, if you don't have a bunch of $$.

Get the girls familiarized asap. Arming inexperienced shooters puts the threat at both 12 and 6.

If you have a few guns already....I implore you to put back a week or 6 of food for the family.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:37:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:40:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 12:21:35 PM EST by Rat_Patrol]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
Hey, better to ask a stupid question and learn then be afraid to ask and maintain the status quo. I get it, I'm good on firearms, spend the money on long term food/water, training to use what I have, ammo, supplies. Why the Colt over the Stag?
View Quote
There are no stupid questions, although some questions will being answers. Kind of like "how many dozen rifles do I need for SHTF?" You kind of instantly label yourself as a couch commando.


I would advise you to read back into this forum's pages. Spend a week or so doing that. If you have a seemingly basic question, simple search it in google, adding "ar15.com". Probably has been covered in great detail. You will also find good archived info. Be advised certain things regarding fuel storage/use in the archives may not be completely accurate do to ethanol infiltration into the gas supply.

Just think about what happens if the power is out for the weekend. No utilities. No NG supply either. What do you need to make it through? Now a week, now 2. Actually run drills. Cut the breaker and turn off the water/gas for the weekend. You will find out quick what you need.

And financial SHTF. This is probably the most likely to happen. Have CASH ON HAND to pay your bills for 2-3 months. Expand on this as you can.

Then start making tier 3 stuff, tier 4 contingency plans. Have backups to your backups. If you are in TX, I would have 2-3 sources of water, and a means to purify more. Have stored water, water filter, ways of getting more water off-grid (rain collection, well on property, creek, pond/lake, etc.)

Colt/Stag is personal preference, IMHO. I have a kit gun I made that is 100% <knock on wood>. Brand makes little difference. Train with your weapon, you will see if it is good enough really quick.

Edit because I hate the auto correct on my phone
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:49:56 AM EST
When SHTF comes, it's not going to come the way you are planning.

Welcome to the forum, OP.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:56:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 10:57:04 AM EST by W_E_G]
How much of it can you carry in 90-degree heat?

A "gun collection" does not preps make.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:56:18 AM EST
A .22 as a training/practice rifle as well as for small game, works for self defense in a pinch if it's a semi auto. A 12 gauge shotgun as the most versatile firearm of all given the variety of ammo available - you can hunt anything from birds to deer and also use it for self defense. Go pump or even double barrel for simplicity.

As others have said the most likely crisis will be financial so get your house in order. Second would be a weather related event, but that could include stuff like heavy extended snowfall with a power outage to a tsunami depending on where you live. If you aren't near a city you probably don't have to worry much about rioting.

Firearms are just tools; what job do you have to do with them?
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:57:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 11:24:51 AM EST by bradpierson26]
Colt > stag
Sell the AK to fund glass for the stag. No more than 12x top end. Spending $120 less on glass and getting a dozen M2 pmags from DSG arms would be a wise decision.
Sell the PPk and get holsters, plenty of mags, and more ammo for the G19
Sell the SW 38spl to fund the SBR'ing of the 6920 (stamp, engraving, and cutting) Personal preference. A short, handy rifle suits me for hallways, vehicles, and carrying while performing mundane SHTF tasks. Don't listen to the internet BS, 10.3" barrel is great for 556, even to 600m with a propper bullet. Seach special forces MK18 if you doubt me. If not, keeping the .38 might be a good option for one of the womenz although I think it's a terrible choice.

Figure out how to get a 12g. Winchester 1300, mossberg 500, rem 870, benelli nova, etc. 18" and 26/28" barrels. pawn shop is totally fine

No .22 rifle?!?! c'mon Savage MKII for an inexpensive bolt action and a redfield revolution scope or a 10/22 takedown for a semi auto. A tac65 suppressor would be a very VERY handy in SHTF. Don't se skerred of the NFA world

Everyone has hammered you enough on food/water.
So I'll hammer you some more

Life straws on amazon for $15 each right now.
click me

$89 harbor freight generator
click me
Baofeng UV-5R+ and a tech license Click me to learn about HAM radio for emergencies
get your HAM radio license
We could really go on and on.

Have fun with the guns though
ETA: forget the .308 long range crap. No way to justify that in SHTF and no way do you want that attention in TEOTWAWKI.
.300blk is great round and "jamming myths" are just that. That being said, it has no place in YOUR shtf preps AT THIS TIME
And there's no way in hell I'd let a armed stranger even near my home so adjust fire on that one.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:58:51 AM EST
Look around you. How many 1000 yards shots are available to you?
If some guy is out at that distance and not advancing on you, just leave him alone.

I don't find much need for a shotgun, the gun and ammo are heavy too. For getting game, a quiet .22 would do you more good.

Two AR's? Two AR's make more sense than one AR and a pistol, especially if one AR breaks down.

But as for what the other guys said, you are much more likely to lose a job, get divorced, have a natural disaster hit you than having to deal with mutant zombie bikers attacking you.

I know a Mormon family man who found his food reserves much more handy in the last two decades than his shotgun.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 11:16:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2013 11:34:11 AM EST by bradpierson26]
Is your screen name accurate?
How out of shape are you? And the wife? Being decently in shape can be the biggest hinderance or savior you can have. Be honest with yourself but let me question be rhetorical.
Speaking of women, if you have three, a few boxes of tamax might be goot to have on hand. 5 day power outtage and you're snowed in and they're on the same cycle - well, you know the rest

read me - radios

read me - Individual First Aid Kits

Could you get home if your vehicle broke down?

Guns are great but can you carry the items to support them? i.e. magazines and such.

I'm giving 6 of these for Xmas gifts this year. I have one personal one that compliments an MSR pocket rocket

Somewhat relevant to your situation

What about fuel?

You'll use a knife 100x before using a gun
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 11:55:12 AM EST
I buy guns cause I like to shoot first and foremost BUT...... a few years ago I realised that my collection was hapharard at best and I thought long and hard what I wanted and the role each gun played. I eliminated several and bough a few that I wanted. I also consolidated my calibers si I could actually have a stock of ammo

.22
.45
.223/5.56
.308
12 ga
That's it.... Now if it is not those calibers I don't buy it. I can shoot .22 in pistols and rifles. I can shoot .308 in semi auto or accurate long range bolt actions everything else speaks for itself

Link Posted: 12/13/2013 11:55:26 AM EST
IMO

Glock 19, lots of mags, CCW, Training, and start shooting some IPSC or IDPA before you do anything else.

After that I would get a quality AR 15 with 1-4 scope, lots of mags, Training, Way to carry the mags, a good zero, Training, and start shooting some 3 gun type stuff.

Once that is done you will be ahead of 90% of gun owners out there, and then I would buy a spare Glock and Ar 15.




If you are looking to bring something to the table, software > hardware. I would rather have a dude in shape who knew the basics vs a guy with 10 decked out AR 15.




Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:24:54 PM EST
Lots of good information here and lots more to think about then a firearm. The name is not in reference to my physical condition...its from one of my favorite movies, True Grit. Not to say I'm anything like the Duke either...no way, just thought it was a cool scene. I'm not in bad shape, but certainly not in SHTF shape. Looks like .308 is not a priority. I like 2 ARs...same ammo, backup rifle and I can spread it around the family. A big push for .22lr...sorry I kept it off the list, but there is a Winchester model 94 .22L lever action in the mix. My focus on the firearms now is just to get my AR's scoped, try to find deals on ammo and get into some training courses. Shotgun might be good one day, but I'm not even going to think about that, have enough to keep me busy for a while. We had an ice freeze for a couple of days in N. Texas, kept travel off the roads, first day back to the grocery store...half the produce section was empty...you couldn't even find 1 potatoe. Made me think what things would look like with an extended shutdown of our transportation system and how people would react...civilly or like a bunch of soccer fans.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:33:48 PM EST
One more thing I may add, in addition to the good advice already given to you OP, is to try to figure out what kinds of SHTFs you are preparing for.
Being in TX, you are less likely to encounter teh 8" of ice/4' snowfall on everything so no power, nothing is open, nobody is going anywhere type of scenario, and more likely to get teh hurricane enrique is leveling thru galveston and has wiped out power for half teh state, and it's in the middle of a heat wave.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:44:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
<snip> Made me think what things would look like with an extended shutdown of our transportation system and how people would react...civilly or like a bunch of soccer fans.
View Quote

Things would be BAD.

If you haven't seen the NatGeo piece (of shit?) Blackout, it is an interesting watch. While not spot on, it gives a graphical, plausible course of events. The panic and timeline I thought was right about there. Link to NatGeo on youtube

You may not understand the joke about tactical peaches until you watch it..

Grocery stores have about nothing "in back". There is no "in back" to speak of. They all depend on trucks arriving every day. Those trucks depend on the DC's operating and the roads passable. They depend on electricity to run the tills, run the coolers, lights. Even if you had cash, they won't give you anything with the power out (although small mom/pop stores might).

My advise: You need to calm down a wee bit, and get a plan. You need to get into research phase. I have some family that went ape shit when they woke up. Bought a bunch of stuff that either A: they don't ever use. B: Don't know how to use. C: Doesn't store well. D: COMPLETELY un-needed. They didn't do their research. They just started buying random shit.

Link Posted: 12/13/2013 1:39:22 PM EST
Going further off topic, is SHTF most likely a ice storm or is it an unplanned pregnancy or a job loss? College for the girls or xyz.
I'll echo: software > hardware
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 3:13:38 PM EST
OP, based on the responses you've made to other posters, I'm going to assume that you're not a troll. Because, that was honestly my first impression upon reading your post and tying it to your post count. Sorry, but you wouldn't believe how often stuff like that happens around here. So, suggestion one, dial it back just a bit. Of course, I see by your other posts that you've got that handled, so you're teachable. Good on ya!

Back in the old days, when I was a yonker, I was sort of in your position. Not exactly, but I was a gun guy long before I was a survivalist (which is what we used to call ourselves before the MSM got hold of the term and screwed it all up) So, I had guns, but no food/water/gear/storage. I approached some established folks, and as some here have already said, they wanted nothing to do with me. All I brought to the table (in their eyes) was another hungry belly. I had some skills in other areas, but not enough to outweigh the notion of an unprepared, yet heavily armed potential internal problem.

These days, I would rather take a guy in who had an old .270 with 12 rounds of ammo, but enough food/water to take care of himself and his family for a couple of months than I would a guy who ACTUALLY WAS a SEAL, but only brought his warfighting gear along with him. The first guy, I could equip if need be. The second guy would cost me sleep.

Baseline armament you need is a CCW piece. For what we are potentially looking at, it's all you're ever likely to need, realistically. If you're gearing up for civil war, then by the time you REALLY NEED an M4, they'll be laying around on the street to pick up (as the man used to say ) Spare parts, a minimum of 4 spare mags (there is no max, they wear out) and a couple of hundred rounds of self defense/training ammo. Realistically, that's all you need for the lion's share of SHTF events.

IF you need a long gun, in most cases, it won't matter what the hell it is. Look at the Cordoba, Argentina thread, specifically the guy with the pellet rifle. Your average looter/rioter won't look past the fact that it's a long gun before moving on to easier pickings.

Shotguns are good for ranges out to around 100 yards. Always supposing you've got the slugs, a decent barrel, and the kno-whatz to hit anything out there. For urban crap, that's probably enough, and justified or not, most folks are intimidated by shotguns. It's also unlikely that you're going to run into anybody anywhere who doesn't recognize the sound of a slide racking a round into the chamber.

Rifles. Here's where myth and legend start crapping all over reality.

Do you need a .22lr rifle? Maybe. Maybe not. Small game hunting? Sure, if you do that. A surprising number of us don't do that anymore, and, hearkening back to my youth, you'd probably be better off with a cheap .410 in any case. Not one of those revolvers, but an actual long gun. Took many, many rabbits, doves, squirrels, rats (didn't eat them, though the doves might as well have been flying rats) with my old Sears .410 bolt gun. Never used the .22's I've owned over the years for anything but target or competition. Okay, I've hunted jacks with them, but I wouldn't eat one of those bastards on a bet!

5.56. Are you expecting combat? See, much as we here in ARFland lurves our ARs, the average guy, SHTF or not, doesn't really NEED an AR unless he's going after long pig on the 2-way. If an AR is number 1 on your list, you're probably preparing to defend the fort against marauding hordes, and that just doesn't happen outside of civil wars. Look at the scenes of the LA riots-- the Korean shopkeepers were armed with a wild assortment of long arms, some of which may not even have been real. Nobody ever found out for sure because the rioters saw them up there with what looked like long guns and moved along to the next activity.

IF you're expecting warfare, by all means, it's better to have your own AR, kitted out the way you want, and sighted in for you than to rely on a battlefield pickup. On the other hand, if you're looking at a civil war, you might just find that you'll be issued one. Yes, they're intimidating, but so is a pump 12ga. Yes, they can also be used for hunting, but so can any number of other long guns. There are reams of print regarding why the AR is the preeminent long gun in this country, but I don't really think that necessity is one of the reasons. At least, not yet.

.308 bolt gun. In the original vernacular, this is next on the hierarchy of "required" firearms, after the handgun, AR/AK, and shotgun (but before .22lr) For "long range, out to 1,000 yards, if I do my part". The caliber is based upon (or was based upon) the military's use of .308 in sniper rifles and GPMGs. Battlefield pickup of ammo was a big thing back then (and still, to a certain extent). Bolt gun because "they're more accurate" than semi-autos. Good scope, of course. This is your sniper/hunting arm of choice. Of course, if you're in the suburbs or an urban area, well... Of course, if you're in one of those areas, you'll be "bugging out" into the wilderness with your arsenal on your back (which is why you can buy packs with scabbards on them) How you're going to carry enough food/water along with you while lugging 30-40 pounds of firearms and ammo is never quite discussed in most places (other than here, I mean)

Truth be told, just about any sporter will stand you in good stead in pretty much any SHTF you're likely to encounter short of a civil war/insurrection. And .308, while a good caliber, isn't the be all, end all. Now that the African bulk lots have dried up for the most part, really cheap .308 isn't that easy to find anymore. Hell, during the recent ammo famines, ANY sort of .308 was hard to find. You know what wasn't hard to fine? .270. Walmart never once ran even LOW on it, during the whole crisis. Pricewise, the cheap .270 was less than a dollar more than the cheap .308. And it was all brass/boxer, so you could reload it (which you should be doing anyway, if you're really out to become a prepper). You can pick up a really nice, BNIB .270 for around $4-500, often already scoped. There's your anti-riot gun, your hunting gun, your sniper rifle, and a pretty nice target rifle, so long as you're not going full on into long range target shooting (although the .270 will reach out there with a proper platform).

There are several other calibers that are also generally available even when the tactical fairy starts biting everybody on the neck and making them lust for military weaponry, though I've not seen cheap ammo for most of them (feeding my .300wm is a trial, lemme tell you!). Hell, a decent Mosin Nagant and 880 rounds of surplus ammo will set you back around $250 plus shipping. Sure, it's no longer a front line battle rifle, but against blackout/disaster area looters, it's pretty damned good.

So. CCW pistol in a meaningful caliber, decent centerfire sporter, spares, couple hundred rounds of ammo for each, and you're set for almost any sort of SHTF short of TEOTWAWKI or civil war.

Now, we gots to address TEOTWAWKI, right? Lots of us preppers aim right for that benchmark, figuring that, if we're ready for that, then anything short of it should be covered, right? Long term grid down, grow your own food, no support structures, roaming bands of MZBs assaulting fortified BOLs, that sort of thing. That's where the high volume of fire of the AR/AK becomes important outside of a civil war scenario. That's where it becomes necessary to have thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo stockpiled. That's when the starving masses (the so-called golden horde) will be trying to kill you for your stored beanie-wienies. If you honestly think that something like that's coming, then you need to be considering not just food/water/firearm preps, but seeds, land, fortifications, extended local mutual support networks, fuel reserves... the list goes on. Even then, the uber-commando arsenal falls pretty low in the list. Pretty hard to pull the trigger or aim when you haven't eaten in a couple of weeks. IF you're expecting TEOTWAWKI, then you should be altering your life according to that expectation. Otherwise, you won't live long enough for all of those guns to do you any good. Although I'm sure the guy with the food/water reserves will appreciate them when he finds them beside your dessicated body.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 4:26:15 PM EST
My honest reply? Don't worry about it.

SHTF happens every day. It comes in the form of storms, hurricanes, floods, fires, earthquakes and other natural disasters. It comes in the form of job loss, sudden medical expenses, and poor financial planning. And it comes in the form of social unrest, civil war, etc. In the vast majority of cases it never involves the need for a firearm. In the exceedingly rare case when it does involve personal security issues, just owning and being able to competently handle a firearm will do for 99% of those rare cases.

I'd argue that most of our needs could be adequately addressed by competent use of a Winchester 94 in 30-30 and a 40 year old S&W Model 10. Yah. It's boring and 'vanilla'. An AR, any decent AR, can address any realistic anticipated need. A fully equipped SHTF battery could include a Ruger 10-22, an AR15 and a decent quality 9mm/40/45 of your choice. These three firearms realistically cover all real needs.

Before spending big money on specialized weapons for long engagement ranges, and other specialized tools, you would be far better served with other preps. How is the food store? Water? How about energy? Can you recharge batteries with existing solar or other alternative energy? Do you have 6 months or more medications on hand? Do you have 6 months or more actual day-to-day living expenses, in cash, on hand? If these have not been addresses, you'd be farther ahead getting these done BEFORE spending thousands on more guns.

Fro
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:42:10 PM EST
I didn't realize you guys were such a close nit community over here. I wondered over from the gun boards. Just trying to learn and generally most people have shared some wisdom with me as several of you have. Thanks for the detailed responses. I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm trying to lesson them by talking with whoever is willing. I get the feeling there's something more going on here or some type of back story that I'm not prevy too. Maybe I need to be careful where I step or what I say.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:43:38 PM EST
Guns are fun! Collecting and storing ammo is pretty awesome, too. There are some pretty good folks here. Read and ask questions.

Welcome to the board
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:50:20 PM EST
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OriginallyI.Posted By 1isn't 't the dFatapocalypse n't realize you guys were such a close nit community oST.r here. I wondered over from the gun boards. Just trying to learn and generally most people have shared some wisdom with me as several of you have. Thanks for the detailed responses. I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm trying to lesson them by talking with whoever is willing. I get the feeling there's something more going on here or some type of back story that I'm not prevy too. Maybe I need to be careful where I step or what I say.
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Just keep in mind this isn't the zombie apocolypse forum. Lot of good people and info here.

Welcome to SF
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 5:57:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
I didn't realize you guys were such a close nit community over here. I wondered over from the gun boards. Just trying to learn and generally most people have shared some wisdom with me as several of you have. Thanks for the detailed responses. I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm trying to lesson them by talking with whoever is willing. I get the feeling there's something more going on here or some type of back story that I'm not prevy too. Maybe I need to be careful where I step or what I say.
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The lefties sometimes send agents provocateurs to post and try to generate responses that they can use to demonize us. We've therefore grown somewhat suspicious of low post count, just joined up members who start right in on all gun prepping. Like going to a flight school and asking to learn how to fly a jumbo without wanting to know how to take off or land.

You've gotten a whole lot of good advice in this thread-- I would advise that you heed it, as many here have been on this ride for decades and have learned a thing or two. If it's not the information you thought you were looking for, well, that's a lesson of its own. We're not here to tell you what you THINK you want to know, we're trying to tell you what you need to know.

Lesson two, when you jump into the deep end and splash people, don't get butthurt when some of them grouse at you for it. Much as you were warned/advised by some guys to dial back the initial enthusiasm, you should also dial back the sensitivity to those responses you don't feel you deserved. This here's a grown up saloon, not an ice cream parlor, and you need to learn to take some lumps. The end result is worth it, and most of us fell prey to one or another wrong urge and got set right at one time or another.

To clarify, there is also a large, and disliked group who come in here loaded for bear, make loud noises, and then get all pouty and defensive when the old curly wolves don't instantly fall all over themselves at the marvelous wisdom the latest pup is howling. Don't be one of those guys. We may be a suspicious lot, but we're not here to crap in anybody's pool. Listen, sort, learn.

Oh, there's one other group of guys who are commonly recurring, and I suspect you might be one of these (like many of the rest of us) Gun guys who like to wear the prepper badge as an excuse for buying all of those firrearms that they wanted so they have something to tell the wife when she starts rolling her eyes. If you're one of those guys, 'fess up, you're in good company here.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 3:16:28 AM EST
Drop everything except the G19 and 6920. I'd sink some money into training, mags and ammo. Depending on where in TX you are, I'd really not worry too much about long range. I don't think there is anything in TX that's big enough to where you can't take it down with a 5.56.
If you HAD to have a .308, get something like a Savage or even a Stevens 200. I know that I can't shoot better than a Savage 10FP at 300 yards - at least not until I have a lot more training and experience. Gotta crawl before you walk and all that
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:21:33 AM EST
Welcome to the survival forum. You are in great need of the wise counsel of the men and women here. Read their words careful and don't be offended. Personal property rights are very important here. What we have is ours and no one has any claim to it. Remember that as you type up each post. That is the biggest rule in this community.

You will find quickly that you need to prep for real rather than the zombie apocalypse.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:53:15 AM EST
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Originally Posted By OneLegPaddy:
I went with a semi auto rifle and pistol for every family member capable of handling each safely. (All the other guns are nice to have's)

Get yourself some face to face training with a pro. Even if its just a friend who's a cop, if you don't have a bunch of $$.

Get the girls familiarized asap. Arming inexperienced shooters puts the threat at both 12 and 6.

If you have a few guns already....I implore you to put back a week or 6 of food for the family.
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This^

I went with AR platforms, 7.62 for males and 5.56 for female and we can switch off if required for a problem set. I haven't committed to thinning the heard yet but have a whole slew of stuff I'm looking to sell at the right price.

One point people haven't brought up yet is weapons get heavy really fast, ammo gets heavy faster. One long gun, one pistol +ammo and water is just about all the normal citizen could carry all day without working on fitness so if you think you might need to run at all I wouldn't want to carry the .22, the 5.56, the 9mm, the 12 ga, the counter sniper rifle far, let alone all that ammo so what are you going to do?

Food/water are far more critical than having tons of guns, training is a very close second, more food and water third then guns IMHO.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 3:20:43 PM EST
Welcome to the SF

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Originally Posted By 1EyedFatMan:
I didn't realize you guys were such a close nit community over here. I wondered over from the gun boards. Just trying to learn and generally most people have shared some wisdom with me as several of you have. Thanks for the detailed responses. I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm trying to lesson them by talking with whoever is willing. I get the feeling there's something more going on here or some type of back story that I'm not prevy too. Maybe I need to be careful where I step or what I say.
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Many folks have hooked you up with good info, so I will not post any rant about guns now

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 4:12:15 PM EST
SHTF can come in both micro and macro forms. Macro types, hurricane, winter snow storms, etc. there are things more important than your arsenal. You didn't mention where in TX or whether you were city/rural, house/apt, etc. so if you're along the Gulf coast, perhaps a generator should take precedence over arsenal.

Then there's the micro-scale versions. If you get a good pistol that you can reasonably carry, get training to become proficient with it for self defense, and CARRY it everywhere you go, that will cover most of the micro-level SHTF things like flash-mobs, urban thug, violent druggie, armed moron robbing a Radio Shack (ask me how I know), rabid demon bunny, etc.

You should try to acquire things for your "preps" that are also useful and usable for everyday life. That way, the money is well spent. In addition, the last thing you want to do is not know how to use what you have until SHTF and you're already under stress and/or considerable danger.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 4:14:28 PM EST
Pistol is the way to start, invest in what works for you but after much experimentation and money Glock is the way to go IMHO.

Invest in gun (pistol), mags, ammo, sturdy belt, good holster and mag pouches... Maybe some sort of CCW PACK.

INVEST IN TRAINING!!!

M4 or for compactness a Sig Sauer 556 (has a folding stock) later on.

As others have said get gun, mags and ammo now!!!

Work on other preps now!!!




Link Posted: 12/14/2013 4:42:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By boerseun:
Drop everything except the G19 and 6920. I'd sink some money into training, mags and ammo. Depending on where in TX you are, I'd really not worry too much about long range. I don't think there is anything in TX that's big enough to where you can't take it down with a 5.56.
If you HAD to have a .308, get something like a Savage or even a Stevens 200. I know that I can't shoot better than a Savage 10FP at 300 yards - at least not until I have a lot more training and experience. Gotta crawl before you walk and all that
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THIS. if you get enough from selling off everything you don't need and use, pick up a couple more G19s.
buy lots of ammunition, spend almost every penny left on it, and go shoot.
Get your CHL. get a NICE IWB or MaxTuck (white hat holsters, made in texas!)
shoot some uspsa/idpa/bullseye etc. get good with your pistol.
Its very advantageous to have several of the same pistol, same caliber, and plenty of magazines.
then start at about 100 yards on the bench with your 6920. get comfortable with it.
learn its operation. learn how to strip down to the bolt, if you arent comfortable with any major repairs
at least learn to change the bolt out (not complete carrier) and get an extra QUALITY hpi/mpi bolt.
keep it IN the gun (get a moe, or miad you can store it in!)
keep an extra firing pin too. those two parts equate to probably 95% of parts breakage.
get QUALITY mags. factory glock for the glock, and mil-issue alum gi like cproducts defence, nhmtg, okay, brownells, colt or pmags or emags
once you are good at 100 yards, stretch it to 200 yards, and shoot some at 25/50 every once in a while standing, and prone. shoot some from the knees.
generally shooting from prone->knees->standing gets more difficult.
get comfortable shooting from behind barrels, poles, obstacles.
once you have expended all but maybe 300 rounds of 5.56 and maybe 200 rounds of 9mm
restock.
there is no need to ever have more ammunition then you can carry on you at one time,
unless you think ammunition is just going to become illegal and expect a civil war type revolution against the .gov.
otherwise, if you have more ammunition then that, you aren't training enough.

everyone has grilled you enough on water and food
get a good pocket knife or two.
benchmade, spyderco, case, moore maker. whatever you LIKE enough you will carry every day.
the rest is wasted money, IMHO.
surely you already have a few flashlights, cigarette lighters and a first aid kit. you are from texas afterall.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:24:45 PM EST
First off, WELCOME! Asking questions and LISTENING to the intelligent responses is the fastest way to get up to speed. And no one starts as an expert(although you couldn't tell that by some people's responses. Start easy and cheap--how many empty and clean milk jugs do you have? A little bleach, fill 'em up--you just started prepping virtually for free! There are a lot better storage vessels, but for quick and easy they are hard to beat. And as others have said, worry about a sniper rifle last, especially if you are relatively new to firearms and have had no real training. Remember, the military takes years to develop quality snipers, and no matter what they try to tell you on TV, making consistent hit at 1000 yards is no easy thing without the proper instruction. when you and the ladies are shooting dead nuts on form 0 to 200 yards--you probably have 99.9 of your firearms issues licked; and if you are engaged from longer distances, they are probably either a bunch of idiots begging to get picked off with precision fire from you and yours; or, an individual or group of individuals with .mil training, in which case you are probably screwed. So save your money and buy beans!
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 1:18:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2013 1:24:21 AM EST by Cato]
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Originally Posted By boerseun:
Drop everything except the G19 and 6920. I'd sink some money into training, mags and ammo.
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This. Software before hardware. But get quality training - SouthNarc's first, carbine classes ala Pat Rogers
or Larry Vickers later.

And if you really want to invest into gadgets, think night vision. A DBAL and PVS14 combined is a game changer.
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