I have seen enough! I am tired of the High Speed Low drag kits and I have a needle decompression/ ET tube/ Quick Clot kit!. Guys think about what can be done after a medical emergency is treated. I am going to compile a list with that in mind of reasonable supplies to have on hand for after a mass event. IE Hurricane, Nuclear Winter, or National Breakdown. I myself think that hospitals will be few and far between and will be flooded with refugees , bandits , and many other types you would like to avoid.I have witnessed this first hand. Before I post I will give my credentials so the ninjas wont wet their pants with this post.





NREMT Paramedic , Pre Hospital Trauma instructor, Critical Care Paramedic(Not National Certified) CPR Instructor. I am currently practicing. With the job I preform I see what happens after the injured patient is turned over . If your going to turn this into a shit storm please reserve your comments for the local bar. Now if you have something to add go for it
1. A sturdy container. Preferably waterproof. I use several pelicans. I have 4 smaller Camera Sized pelicans and one $50 dollar pelican I purchased at academy. Whatever works for you. "If you dont get on a boat it better float" Waist deep was the norm in Katrina, Rita





2. Bandages of several sizes. Start with 2 large trauma dressings 4 Abdominal dressings. 10-20 4x4s.





3. Cling/Sterile Gauze. 5-10 . You can remove them and roll them flat or leave them in the bag for sterile to be preserved. These are usually used to keep the bandage applied





4. Sam Splint x2. A multi purpose splint worth its weight. These also can be flattened. There is also a video showing multiple applications.





5. Shears x 2





6. Light source, Chem light or light . You may be in the dark when applying





7. Asprin, Ibuprofen. Imodium, Water purification tabs, Iodine ,Benadryl and antibiotics if you can find them. Make sure you are not allergic !





8. Gloves , as many as possible





9. Med Tape 2 rolls. If you use small amounts it will last. I think I have been using the same roll for 2 months now on the unit. 3m clear works good.





10. Knife,





11. Survival Blanket(optional)





12. Sterile Water(Optional) Flushing the wound is important but this will not be sterile after you use it. It will still be cleaner than available  sources





13. N95 Rated Masks. (Optional) Someone may get a respiratory illness. Put one on them and you.





14. Small and large tweezers. (You might get glass or other nasty stuff walking in your legs ans hands.





15. Band Aids varied (Optional) The 4x4s can be cut and applied with tape for same use.
This is my direct application stuff. I have another container to replace the items listed. I calculated for single use . Next I will go into BOB supplies where this will go.
The reason you dont NEED an ET tube. Once you intubate someone 90% of the time the will require ventilator support and sedation. You are not going to hand ventilate someone for more than a few days rotating shifts without power for an electric vent. Many Hospital Staff tried this during Katrina. If you can take this person to a close hospital that can treat them you probably should not have intubated them. Quick Clot- I am on the fence with carrying this but Quick Clot causes cauterization and damage and is utilized for very severe injuries. Someone with a GSW, Evisceration , arm or leg amputation is not going to do well IE infection, bleeding out ,long recovery to area . It doesn't hurt to carry but its use is usually last resort . Decompression needles- I dont know how this got carried over from EMS / police use during normal events to "my shtf bag" but forget it. If they have a closed pneumo and you decompress them guess what you just made? another hole. And open pneumo has the same result usually- a chest tube. Ashermann chest seal, Occlusive dressing falls under the same logic. IV fluid application- I can see the logic and value. But too many people claim they "Know what they are doing. Catheter Shear, air imbolism , bacteria entry can all occur . It takes constant use to be good at application of IVs . Leave it to the pros or become one. Its not as simple as shown . IV fluids simply replace lost volume. Very rarely can it have good use without Medical follow up.





 

The other equipment I have is to prevent many of the injuries the BLS Kit covers from happening.



Whatever you want to use make it portable. I have an alice set up as a soft backpack
Shears/knife(one tied to the bag with 550 cord) and Lighting go on the outer most pockets. Your usually going to need them the most/first



Side pockets are items that are too large for water proof but are self contained. SAM Splints blankets in packaging. Stuff that wont matter if it gets opened



Large/ main container/ One small pelican has Gloves and Masks . this is my BSI gear Usually kept inside on top if there is an inside pocket. I used the helmet flap.



Main pelican case Trauma/Abdominal/ 4x4s Gauze/Cling / med tape / tweezers / band aids



Meds in another small pelican in labeled packaging



I place the blanket at the bottom for cushioning/
Main Bag Items( Preventable care)



1. Socks/ undies/ clothes also under med supplies



2. Watch Cap ( Keep a warm head)- reduces use of blankets



3. Poncho(backs up if water proof fails.



4. MREs/Survival Rations(Optional)- I know there are a million set ups but one provision wont hurt.



5. Water container with filtration. (Keeps you from needing immodium)



6. Knee Pads/Work Gloves( Less cuts to hands knees traversing large areas.Less disease vector less use of antibiotics.)
I hope this helps. Please feel free to add.
Preliminary price list from one website

AMT.                                  Total

1.4x4  2 packs                    8.50

2.Triangle B. x10                2.90

3.Sam Splint x 3                 31.50

4.Multi Trauma D x 10        15.00  

5.Iodine 4oz x 3                 3.27          TOTAL 119.64 before shipping

6.N95 Masks x 9                 6.75      

7.Shears x 3                      3.oo

8.INOVA Light x 3               48.00
 

Nice post. Short and sweet and to the point, no BS.  

I always chuckle when I see one one saying you need IVfluids and stuff that takes specific training to use. Also emergency surgery kits. You will cause much more harm with that stuff if you never had any training. People read in all the SHTF novels that it can be done by reading a book on how to while you are preforming what ever your doing. Wrong.

What's your take on having a tourniquet?

Nice post. I am in agreement that most of the crap people supposedly carry around in their fancy medical kits is of little value in any scenario, much less in a SHTF one.

The unpleasant fact is that during a SHTF situation (Katrina is not a bad example), a lot of casualties that might normally have survived are not going to get someplace where they can be treated fast enough. It will not make any real difference what fancy crap you have available to you. If you can't get the injured person someplace they can get actual useful medical care, they are just toast.

Even if an appropriate medical facility is open, staffed, and taking patients, just getting the injured person there in time may not be possible due to the EMS transport system being overwhelmed with casualties, or the roadways being impassable.

What is your take on Israeli Bandages? GTG or not?

That's a good list!



The only thing I'd add is to add a tube of bacitracin to the not-so-optional bandaids, all in one ziplock baggie, and make it the most easily accessed item.



I sure that at least 99% of what I've ever had to treat from my truck kit, were cut fingers, busted knuckles, etc. and I was working alone, with the one remaining (and non-dominant) hand.



... and I *may* even had to walk from the house to the truck, when I couldn't find what I needed in the home medicine cabinet.

Excellent post. Thank you.

I like them as well, but you can get the same results with a 3" ACE bandage and some 4x4s.


20

A med kit with/out fish meds???

Over the past 5 years, I've been hurt a couple times but needed antibiotics several times more often than first aid stuff -by far. Same w/ my SO.

Oh, when I fell down with my foot caught on some wire type steps and I twisted my body to avoid a big frigging rock we put next to them, I nearly broke my knee.

My SO picked up a walker at the thrift store so I could get the the bathroom.

I said NO-WAY I'm using that thing!!!! [But within a day I was grateful to have it] I was able to get around in about a week, did an experiment and didn't go to the ER and am just fine.

If you have to survive without certain meds and the knowledge to use them and no professional med help available, you are likely going to wind op in a world of hurt unless you are still young and invincible.

Folks need to assess what meds they have needed over say the past 5 or 10 years and prepare accordingly.

Ok as for tournys a few points to be made. The pre made ones are EXCELLENT. But this goes back to adding shit you dont need. If its bad enough to need one your doing it wrong. If you really need one the Cling and flashlight can do the job. But again it goes back to making things way to complicated. It would be interesting to formalize this post and keep it as a living document as times change. Tournys are in and out every few years.That being said I have NEVER used one. And that is because I expected the hospital to be in range. Now with no hospital and a bad bleed your still PMF-Pretty much fucked. One thing that deserves honorable mention is stitching. This is an ancient practice and has also its place. Monofil line has been used in informal application. A nice laceration cleaned up could benefit from suture. It wont be something in my kit but deserves some notice. I appreciate the formality here guys lets keep it up.

You CAN practice: old innertubes, dead critters, etc
(I've sewed up all manner of critters, and even fish, but no humans.)

I agree

You (and the subsequent attending ER doc) would probably be better served by you using some well placed butterfly bandages. That way the Doc only has to deal with one wound, and not one major wound and a bunch of small puncture wounds and tears around the perimeter of the major wound.



The last time that I needed stitches, I had cut open my knee. I placed a large bandaid across the cut (lacking any butterflies, I needed to hold it closed), and avoided flexing that leg as I drove myself to the ER. 10 days later, I was more self-sufficent and did my own suture removal.

As a medical graduate I found this thread to be excellent. Good, honest, no BS info for the layperson. I'll refer anyone asking for info on 1st aid kits to this thread and list from now on.

Kind of along the lines of a tourniquet in that you can accomplish the same thing by other means would be to carry a medical stapler instead of a suture kit. They are not heavy but probably take up too much room for a small bleeder kit but in a larger truck or backpack kit they would be fine. Would be great to have in a home emergency kit.
I've used one a few times on dogs and horses, not always the most understanding of patients, and it was great. Watched my vet the first time, very fast and easy with a short learning curve compared to sewing up a wound. Just remember that they make a special little tool for taking the staples out. You don't have to have it but it sure is a lot easier if you do.

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread and keeping it BS free and simple.  I am that regular guy who has no training or had the opportunity to serve in the military to gain any medical experience.  I have taken the Red Cross basic first aid courses and CPR class but have always wondered about putting together a FAK.    Thanks again to the OP and others for this thread and keeping a noob from buying a super duper high speed low drag FAK that would not be useful for myself and family.  Keep the ideas coming, they are greatly appreciated.

Good IDea to have these as well. I have never used them myself. People have also used super glue.








 

I will try to get a pricing guide along so you can see the savings. Also Pictures as well. Mardi Gras is killing me right now at work. I will suggest that there are many ways to get free training and expierience. Local Volunteer Fire departments are a Great way. You run actual wrecks and calls along with EMS. First responder or even EMT B can be provided by the city or town at no cost as long as you are a member. This is how I began and its the base of my job. I started at 16. There is not much difference between first responder and EMT B. Ifyou get First Responder be sure to go to a certified class. If anything we may never see a mass event but it cold be YOUR family or YOURSELF that benefits from the class .

Sounds good.

The hard case mentioned indicates this is a home or car-based kit, I assume.

Great post lafmedic

I'm going to keep my eye on this one.



GM

Great post!!!!!


Only one complaint- Gloves should be non-latex

It's just as easy to get medical grade Nitral gloves and save the risk of finding the one person with an allergy

Just to go with the OPs philosophy I have a Molle Medic pack with basics that could be used to support a large group for a long time
with several boo-boo kits for hand outs so I don't have to break open the bag every time.

The $0.99 first aid kits from target/walmart are a good start for a hand out

A TK is useful to stop bleeding quickly and keep you or another person in the fight.  It may not save their life, due to lack of follow on Medical care, but it could keep them combat effective long enough to save other lives.  Also many of the things in a SHTF kit are based on the idea that proper medical care and hospitals are either non-existent or far away.  These items should NOT be used by any nonprofessionals in anything other than a SHTF scenerio.  A survival group should have as a high priority to get advanced medical training and/or recruit trained medical profesionals.

I love these little kits and find myself purchasing and recommending them quite often.

I think this is the best KISS discussion I have read here on BASIC medical care.  If you need the advanced goodies you need the advanced training.  I have been concerned reading the average BOB med kit content.  A lot of people learn HOW to use the advanced level toys but very few that have them in their private supplies understand the WHY they are using them and WHAT the device is doing.  Unless you have the training you should have a boo-boo kit, not an EMS jump bag.  That being said, tourniquets are excellent in preserving every RBC possible and are easily improvised. IV fluids have a lot of WHAT and WHY to them so until you understand that it doesn't matter if you know HOW.
Put the white stuff on the red stuff and call someone who knows what they are doing.  Minimize blood loss and heat loss and you will be well on your way to improving their survivability.
I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but I am a PHTLS instructor with 13 years on the street as a NREMTP.

This thread has me thinking. Given the half remembered very basic FA training I received all those years ago, I think that what I really need - in addition to some more training - is a set of instruction cards on basic FA so I don't hurt someone in a high stress situation.
Anyone know where those are available?

Excellent thread. I have a personal trauma-centric kit at my corporate job that includes OPAs, a BVM and a bag as well as a BP Cuff and cheap stethoscope. I figure I can get good vitals on a PT, keep him oxygenated, and get a good history until the cavalry arrives. I'm definitely an Occam's Razor guy when it comes to medical. Keep it simple and do everything you can to keep perfusion happening.

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I have the hard cases small enough to place them in a large ruck. Car or Home also. Double Redundant .








 

We use nirtile at work. I find they feel and last better than latex. THere are also many people allergic to tape.








 

I found a wilderness survival manual that has pictures at Barnes. It was on sale for 5 bucks. Over 200 pages with info. There are a lof of field expiedient methods there as well as home made replacements.  A lot of people place practice videos or demonstrations on youtube. they may or may not be incorrect. As for cards I have no idea. Maybe someone will chime in. There are many First Responder books available with pictures . My old EMT books show alot with drawings. Brady Books may have a basic first aid . There is also a quick book aid that may be of help to you. I think its called rapid review.








 

One thing I don't see if something for head and neck restraint. 2 days deep in the woods and someone has fallen is not a good thing. Holding traction till help arrives would be next to impossible for 2 people if one is hurt. What is your thoughts on a light foldable cervical collar provided someone knows how to actually apply it properly?

I think it would be useful to differentiate between the following, how they should be organized and WHAT the goal of each kit is:

-A gunshot wound / trauma / car kit(s)
A SHORT-term medical kit (0-5 days?)
-A MEDIUM-term medical kit (1-4 week?)
-A LONG-term medical kit (1-12 months?)
-A EXTENDED-term medical kit (1-5 years?)
-A "there's never going to be help coming ever ever ever"-kit


Now a lot of these would overlap each other but, like any type of prepping, I think that it's important to prioritize.  Starting small, taking care of the most immediate and likely medical needs - then followed by layering more medical options to cover more rare / unlikely medical scenarios would be great.

I'm a lot less concerned with the long/extended/never type kits at this point than I am with always having a trauma kit at home / work / vehicle along with a boo-boo kit at each spot too...

Additionally, people getting more medical training (hell ANY kind of training {gun/wilderness/etc too]) is freakin' awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlEwrcw-R4M


Just my thoughts on how medical prepping should be thought of / organized.

Sam Splint can be used as a C Collar. Takes a few folds and cuts.








 

Absolutely nothing wrong with this. As I said  I use this as a first response kit with refills available. I have a british 81 MM mortar case with more that I can leave behind or take in a POV








 

Not sure about a full set of cards, but I have one of these that was free when I bought some stuff.  Just happened to notice the card today in my bag.  Covers the ABC's and on the reverse side has directions for CPR.

Also, cannot remember the site but NOLS/WMI  (Wilderness Medicine Institue) has a .pdf card you can print off and then laminate.  This card goes over conducting primary / secondary survey, checking ABC's, level of responsiveness, etc.  If you are interested let me know, I'll see if I can find it.

For rinsing out small wounds, would over the counter saline (for contact lenses) work?  They come in small bottles, and can be squirted with some reasonable force and accuracy and is already sterile.

You can also use cling/ace bandage and a couple blocks/boards

Last year, when I had a big chunk cut out of my armpit because of MRSA, I was told to use only 'saline wound wash' to keep it clean and moist - not saline for contacts/eyes.  I think there may be other ingredients in the later you don't want in an open wound.  But that was a fairly large open wound that had to heal from the inside out, not just surface cuts or abrasions.  As for the discomfort from salt, there wasn't any at all.

tag. good post

Interesting note on saline. Check concentrations. .09 is medical use in IVs.

What do you recommend for burns? Help maybe a day or 2 away.

It looks like thimerisol free contact lens cleaning solution can work in a pinch.

Tag.



This is one area I have been trying to get up to speed on.  I appreciate the realistic approach thats being taken here.  



I've seen two people have heart attacks, a couple seizures, and a dozen or so people hurt in car accidents while I'm out doing chores in public.  I havent seen a GSW or any other HSLD type injuries.  I cant carry a hospital with me, so I try to carry gear that is difficult to improvise on the spot, or very likely to be needed.  The only valid argument I have seen for carrying things you are not trained on is to provide tools to individuals that do have training, but are lacking the equipment to work on you.  I witnessed a car accident last year where no less than 3 nurses standing around the injured person that had nothing in the way of first aid supplies.  



They used my truck FAK to stem some non-life threatening bleeding, and get some ice on the drivers broken foot.  The most important item I think was the gloves.  No one wanted to risk helping without some PPG.  



I have used super glue in the past in lieu of stitches or staples.  Does anyone else use this or are there better options out there?

Strange, I've never washed a wound incl some sorta bad ones in anything except tap or opened bottled water...

For far more years than I want to talk about.

Incl other people too...

Weird...

You must have missed all my posts abt S-G...

It's great, never gets infected, seems to prevent infection, heals faster, doesn't get hot or burn,

Fixed some bad wounds w/ it, saved lots of $$$  -not going to the hospital -and expanded my range of limitations.

[Incl a chain saw cut that just missed my kneecap]

[shit... too close]

Valuable knowledge for SHTF.

Does have a shelf life, the gel is better and longer.

In order of importance in a EOTWAWKI, meds incl fish, then C-G.

I don't pay much mind to fancy tacticoole bande aide kits. Rags, Tshirts and duct tape good to go for me.

Isn't there a "medical" super glue now? Anyone know if there is and if its available to the public?