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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 300 HAM'R (HAMR) (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 9/3/2024 5:16:31 PM EDT
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Starting a new 300 HAM'R thread. I'll find and link the previous threads that have fallen into the archives and try to keep this one alive for awhile. My primary interest in this caliber is defense (HD/SD). My intent is for it to replace 300AAC as my primary close defense firearm (rifle). My thought process is this: My current preferred HD round is 300AAC. The acknowledged (current) gold standard for defense in 300AAC is the 110gr Barnes TAC-TX, a supersonic round. This caliber being a bit faster would seem to make logical sense, from a performance perspective; I admit there are other factors that make this less than ideal, all around. Maybe I can gen up some YouTuber interest on this caliber? I'd be willing to send the upper off for evaluation. Anyway my Dirty Beaver in 300 HAM'R (actually has a  |
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ar15.com archived threads... 300 HAM'R - General Information 300 HAM'R Information Sharing Thread Who's using a HAM'R 300 ham'r 300 HAMR? Good, bad, or ...? 300 Ham'r ... No Love? 300 HAM'R Master thread on Texas Hunting Forum... WILSON COMBAT 300 HAM'R Wilson Combat product links... 300 HAM'R AR-15 Rifles 300 HAM'R Ammo 300 HAM'R Parts & Accessories |
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Ordered dies from WC. Need a press, tho.  |
| You'll probably find the 120gr Tac Tx bullets too long for the 300 Ham'r. Maximum length to fit in the magazine is 2.260" and those bullets tend to be loaded to a COL of 2.25" in 300 Blk. The 300 Ham'r case is roughly 1/4" longer than the 300 Blk case, so you'll have to seat the bullet too deep in the case. The 110gr Tac Tx I have measured are 1.175" long and I've never bought any of the 120gr Tac Tx. |
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Quoted: You'll probably find the 120gr Tac Tx bullets too long for the 300 Ham'r. Maximum length to fit in the magazine is 2.260" and those bullets tend to be loaded to a COL of 2.25" in 300 Blk. The 300 Ham'r case is roughly 1/4" longer than the 300 Blk case, so you'll have to seat the bullet too deep in the case. The 110gr Tac Tx I have measured are 1.175" long and I've never bought any of the 120gr Tac Tx. Thanks for the heads up. I guess those will sit then. I've got 1.245" for the 120gr. |
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Look at Lehigh for a Tac X replacement https://lehighdefense.com/ They are owned by Wilson and make 300Hamr specific bullets. |
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I bought a bunch of different loaded rounds. 110gr VMax 110gr CC 110gr SP 125gr ME 125gr TNT 135gr FTX However, I can't find any reviews on any of these rounds ability to defeat armor. FWIW, all those ran fine in my suppressed setup with a DD Mk18 gas block ( ETA: Bill recommended the Lehigh 115gr TME as a 120gr TAC-TX substitute (2.250" OAL). |
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An article I found informative, especially around development and reloading. https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/the-wilson-combat-300-hamr/358869 |
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I looked at 300 HAM'r early on since I shoot mostly supers (but unsuppressed). I eventually considered it as a "1 foot" caliber, and by that I mean that it is a caliber best suited with a least 1 foot of barrel. I didn't want something that was going to be too blasty unsuppressed out of a short barrel. At the time I had mentioned that I felt like HAM'r was focusing on marketing against 300blk to much. In that article, if you do a CTRL F, "300 BLK" comes up 16 times. That is misguided IMO. I don't need convincing to know that 7.62x41 is more powerful than 7.62x35. What I would need to know is why I should select that caliber over 6.8spc, 350 Legend, or 7.62x39. That is the comparison that HAM'r needs to make (not once do any of those come up in that article). I thought the best argument for it was America's answer to 7.62x39, especially being that it uses a common 5.56 bolt and .308 boolits. For whatever reason, 30HRT/Tac30 could not pull it off. ------------ Tinfoil hat time. Wilson Combat stopped making the best cartridge on the planet to: 1. Not cut into their own HAM'r sales 2. Eventually make way for a Lehigh (owned by WC) version. That cartridge? The box(es) on the far left. WC loaded 110gr Tac-tx to a box listing of 2400 fps.  That stuff averaged 2213 fps in my 9", and 2261 fps in my brand new (at the time) 10.5". WC makes good ammo, so is like having match grade level, hot ammo available. Need to bring that stuff back. I have yet to try any of their new Tipped stuff. I would be interested in the Tipped Controlled Chaos, but the box velocity looks pretty slow for 300blk (2300fps for a 1110gr round), so I will pass. I need to see some reviews on WC/Lehighs TME to see how they perform, and down to what velocities. |
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Quoted: ... However, I can't find any reviews on any of these rounds ability to defeat armor. ... this is why I have a 6.8 spc 11.3" that's going to replace the 300blk 10.5" in my work bag. 30% more case capacity. if I can't get full power loads I'll load my own with 110gr vmax. |
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I did find a YouTube "short" where someone shot Level IIIA armor with 300AAC 110gr TAC-TX. The video was offered without commentary. It's almost like the subject is "Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more". I'll see if I can't replicate that load somehow with 300 HAM'R. The 120gr TAC-TX is a no-go. I've got some 110gr TAC-TX inbound to check the length on those. |
Easiest way to be sure it to buy a couple of panels of IIIa and test it. That is what I did with subsonic 300blk after reading various differing reports.    I still have that panel. Maybe I'll put a round of vmax through it one day. Brassfetcher has a great PDF on 300blk rounds. https://300aacblackout.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/300AACBlackout06OCT2010.pdf I can't find the link, but there is some good stuff on 6.8 as well. |
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OK, There are now 6 entry holes. Newest hole is bottom right.  When flipped over, pretty easy to see the exit hole. Hornady Black 110gr Vmax from a 7.5" barrel at bad breath distance.  I had the same question on Vmax many years ago. Could not find any video one way or another, just the occasional post where someone would say that had tested it, and it defeated the armor. Since I never heard or saw any evidence otherwise, I assumed it would go through. Now I can say I have personally put 110gr Vmax through a panel of IIIa armor. |
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Quoted: I did find a YouTube "short" where someone shot Level IIIA armor with 300AAC 110gr TAC-TX. The video was offered without commentary. It's almost like the subject is "Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more". I'll see if I can't replicate that load somehow with 300 HAM'R. The 120gr TAC-TX is a no-go. I've got some 110gr TAC-TX inbound to check the length on those. If you put a 110gr Tac Tx in a 300 Ham'r case where the COL is 2.260", the end of the case will not be tight around the bullet because of the bullet's long taper, and how deep you have to push it into the case to fit in a magazine. |
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Quoted: If you put a 110gr Tac Tx in a 300 Ham'r case where the COL is 2.260", the end of the case will not be tight around the bullet because of the bullet's long taper, and how deep you have to push it into the case to fit in a magazine. Quoted: Quoted: I did find a YouTube "short" where someone shot Level IIIA armor with 300AAC 110gr TAC-TX. The video was offered without commentary. It's almost like the subject is "Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more". I'll see if I can't replicate that load somehow with 300 HAM'R. The 120gr TAC-TX is a no-go. I've got some 110gr TAC-TX inbound to check the length on those. If you put a 110gr Tac Tx in a 300 Ham'r case where the COL is 2.260", the end of the case will not be tight around the bullet because of the bullet's long taper, and how deep you have to push it into the case to fit in a magazine. |
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Quoted: What if you pulled the plastic tip off the 110 grain bullet? Sure, that’ll drop the BC, but does that matter at distances where you’d use it? From a length perspective, it could work if that tip were removed. I personally wouldn't go to the trouble, as there are other choices which work fine without the extra work. If you already own them, and don't plan to use them for anything else, it would be worth a try. |
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Quoted: From a length perspective, it could work if that tip were removed. I personally wouldn't go to the trouble, as there are other choices which work fine without the extra work. If you already own them, and don't plan to use them for anything else, it would be worth a try. They shoot good in the HAMR |
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OP, did you ever end up ordering the 115gr Lehigh TME's? I'm curious as to how they perform and chrono. I could not find any gel tests on them. Most of the popular short barrel 300blk rounds (110gr Tac-tx black tip, 115gr Controlled Chaos or 120gr SIG HT/SBR), don't fit HAM'r, but all three of those rounds were specifically designed for 300blk. The 115gr TME was specifically designed for HAM'r, so I would assume it will work well. I know the 110gr TTSX (blue tip) is available for HAM'r, but that does not have the listed expansion floor of the Tac-tx or TME. Actually, I think the only popular "loaded ammo" the two calibers share is 110gr V-max, not even the loaded 125gr'ers (SST, Nosler BT & TMK) cross calibers as loaded ammo. |
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Thanks for that post; that is some good insight. I have ordered the 115gr TME and noticed there is also a 110gr TME, which I also ordered. I'm not set up to do any type of the testing you've noted. My range is just now allowing rifle calibers (which I first need to get "certified"). If doing gel tests is something I'm allowed to do there, I will plan on purchasing a chrono, some gel and IIIA armor for testing. Or I'll see about running down a YouTuber that may be interested in doing the testing. |
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Quoted: @Joshuasaur @NvrBrdWes (I would @ Bill Wilson but I don't remember his screen name) Know any GunTubers interested in doing some 300 HAM'R testing? (on my dime)  .30 Cal Perfected? | The Wilson Combat 300 HAM'R TLDR, it's a hopped up 300blk lol |
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Quoted: I did find a YouTube "short" where someone shot Level IIIA armor with 300AAC 110gr TAC-TX. The video was offered without commentary. It's almost like the subject is "Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more". I'll see if I can't replicate that load somehow with 300 HAM'R. The 120gr TAC-TX is a no-go. I've got some 110gr TAC-TX inbound to check the length on those. Why the obsession with "defeating body armor"? If you have dudes coming thru your front door with plates, you got bigger issues to deal with. I haven't seen a whole lot of SD stories about crack-heads coming thru doggie doors wrapped in level III. If defeating body armor is a priority, WTF a 30 in the first place 
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Quoted: It's a performance measurement. If you can, why not? No reason. It's fun to play. Just not sure that 30 caliber is the platform for that if performance is the end objective. There are proven platforms that excel in that role. I just find it curious how so many members seem so worried about defeating body armor with their HD weapon. There's a lotta room around 'em....plates....  |
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I would like this round to take off and stick around. I think it has more potential than the BLK as a 150yrd (maybe 200 yard) hunting round which is what i want. Other than the HAMR I would say the Grendel beats everything right now but not sure it is going to stick around for the long term. My Grendel has been 100% reliable but Grendel and 7.62x39 both have less than ideal bolt face sizes for the AR. Also they use "funny" mags due to the taper I believe. I think the HAMR doesnt have these issues to deal with. 300BLK could work for me if supersonics carried a little more energy out to about 200 yards. I looks like HAMR does exactly that. But I am not ready to jump into the HAMR until I see more long term support. What i really want is something with about 10-12" barrel that still has about 1000ft/lb at 200 yards. Grendel accomplishes that but I haven't seen if HAMR does. If anyone has any measured velocities out of the shorter barrels i would really like to see them. I could put them in a ballistic calculator and figure out if HAMR would work for me. |
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Quoted: No reason. It's fun to play. Just not sure that 30 caliber is the platform for that if performance is the end objective. There are proven platforms that excel in that role. I just find it curious how so many members seem so worried about defeating body armor with their HD weapon. There's a lotta room around 'em....plates.... For me, defeating IIIa it isn't the end objective, but it is one of the key criteria. Think of it as a weapon/caliber capable of defeating more than just some whacko on bath salts coming through the door. |
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Quoted: Thanks for that post; that is some good insight. I have ordered the 115gr TME and noticed there is also a 110gr TME, which I also ordered. I'm not set up to do any type of the testing you've noted. My range is just now allowing rifle calibers (which I first need to get "certified"). If doing gel tests is something I'm allowed to do there, I will plan on purchasing a chrono, some gel and IIIA armor for testing. Or I'll see about running down a YouTuber that may be interested in doing the testing. banana ballistics does some fun videos. |
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I have had my 300 HAM'R running for close to a year. Anderson Lower. Aero Upper Shaw 18" Barrel, 1-12 Twist. Stern Defense Two Stage Cassette Trigger (2.5 LB) Rifle Buffer Assembly Mid Length Gas MagPul MOE Rifle Stock, and Grip Stern Defense 15" M-Loc Handguard Yankee Hill M-Loc Bipod Stud Leupold MK AR 30mm Scope Base Weaver 2.5-10X 30mm Classic Extreme Scope Magazine Lancer L5 AWM 300 Blackout Load (My Notes Say) Starline Brass CCI 450 Primers CFE Black 26.0 Hornady 135 FTX CFE Black 25.6 Hornady 130 SP (Discontinued Bullet) SW Blackout 26.0 Speer 130 HP (NOTE Bullet is no longer recommended by Wilson Combat, the Jacket is too Soft until the barrel is broken in 200+ Rounds) SHAW Barrel cuts donuts of jacket material. I did not locate my Test Fire Velocity Numbers. I bagged an 8 pt Buck the last day of the 2023 Missouri Deer Season with the 130 Speer HP Load. Behind the shoulder shot, complete pass through. Nice size exit hole. NOTE: It will not run with 5.56 Magazines PERIOD. It works fine with the Lancer L5 AWM 300 Blackout Magazines. I set mine up to be easy to shoot well, and keep the velocity numbers up. It is heavy, but I do not pack it around very far on foot. It will shoot MOA with good Bullets. I need to get some Real Target Quality Bullets, and see what it will do. Bob R |
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Quoted: This was our time with the cartridge (feel free to skip the cringe intro)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6PPD7L_JkTLDR, it's a hopped up 300blk lol Good video. However, I think there is a slight disconnect between the TLDR comment and the video itself. The video made a point that HAM'R has a completely different objective...basically the most powerful .30 cal you can get in a small frame with a 5.56 bolt. Not that you can't go shorter, but the round is focused around hunting from a 16-18" barrel, supersonic obviously. 300blk had very specific parameters, like having more subsonic power than 9mm, but also having supersonic capability similar to 7.62x39. It also had to utilize all 5.56 parts including bolts and mags. Topically, I see why they are compared, but realistically they are completely different use cases. No one really ever compared 7.62x40WT to 300 Whisper back in the day, although the basis of this all started from JD sending Bill a Whisper upper and dies. ----- I'm not sure if it is poor marketing or other factors around WC that is limiting the success, but IMO, this caliber should be far more popular than it is. Especially with the ban on Russian 7.62x39. It's biggest benefactors are "small frame, .308 bullets, and a 5.56 bolt without worrying about cross loading 5.56". 350 Legend can corner the "straight wall" hunting market (using a 5.56 bolt), but HAM'R has the advantage of using curved (300blk) mags that don't jam beyond 9 rounds. 6.8spc (and 350L) stumbled out the gate, so it just seemed like there could have been a place for this. Then again, other .30cal small frames were fumbled early on as well. |
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To compare some 300 Blackout, 30 carbine, and 300 HAM'R... 300 Blackout-- Wilson Combat offers a 115gr @ 2350 fps from a 16" barrel. 30 Carbine-- apparently a 110 gr goes 1990 fps from a 18" barrel according to Wikipedia. (Though I admit that might be target ammo instead of hunting/defense ammo.) 300 HAM'R-- Wilson offers a 110 gr @ 2650 fps from an 18" barrel. I don't see how 30 Carbine really compares to either, but maybe that's just me. That 300 Blackout looks like a good load at least to me, but that 300 HAM'R is really going (kind of makes me want a 300 HAM'R since I prefer the trajectory of the lighter weight 300 Blackout loads over the heavier 300 Blackout supers). For someone using supersonic loads, the 300 HAM'R is really appealing, but it's higher cost and lower availability has kept me from switching over. Also, my username would need to be changed. 
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Quoted: Why the obsession with "defeating body armor"? If you have dudes coming thru your front door with plates, you got bigger issues to deal with. I haven't seen a whole lot of SD stories about crack-heads coming thru doggie doors wrapped in level III. If defeating body armor is a priority, WTF a 30 in the first place Seriously? You may have missed stories of "international" robbery gangs with cell/wifi jammers, work trucks/vans with fake utility decals, guys with work vests/hard hats, and ARs. I know my sheriff, and he has told me there have been several in my area, a very low crime area, but with thousands of high-end homes. If all you're worried about is your neighborhood crackhead, ok, but if you don't think these people can't or won't get armor, I just have to disagree. |
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One additional note that I'll add about defeating body armor. Most people choosing a rifle for home defense are using 5.56. It's a given that it will defeat Level IIIA armor. Most people choosing a pistol (or PCC) for home defense know it's a given that it won't defeat Level IIIA armor. This is kinda in the middle, so why there is more explicit/overt attention being given to this performance metric. |
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Quoted: No reason. It's fun to play. Just not sure that 30 caliber is the platform for that if performance is the end objective. There are proven platforms that excel in that role. I just find it curious how so many members seem so worried about defeating body armor with their HD weapon. There's a lotta room around 'em....plates.... Quoted: Quoted: It's a performance measurement. If you can, why not? No reason. It's fun to play. Just not sure that 30 caliber is the platform for that if performance is the end objective. There are proven platforms that excel in that role. I just find it curious how so many members seem so worried about defeating body armor with their HD weapon. There's a lotta room around 'em....plates.... I have not seen a 300 Ham'r test on body armor, there is this video with Kevlar, but it appears they put it behind the gel block so the bullet only hit at exit speed. However if a 150gr SST round at 200 yards can drop what looks to be about a 800lb Bull Elk hitting someone in the chest wearing body armor in close range in a home defense situation even if it does not penetrate, they will be on the ground wishing it did.  We shot a Lehigh Defense 300 HAM'R Controlled Chaos 125 GR Bullet into gel. Here's what happened. |
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Quoted: I have not seen a 300 Ham'r test on body armor, there is this video with Kevlar, but it appears they put it behind the gel block so the bullet only hit at exit speed. However if a 150gr SST round at 200 yards can drop what looks to be about a 800lb Bull Elk hitting someone in the chest wearing body armor in close range in a home defense situation even if it does not penetrate, they will be on the ground wishing it did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gic3xU93CuwQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a performance measurement. If you can, why not? No reason. It's fun to play. Just not sure that 30 caliber is the platform for that if performance is the end objective. There are proven platforms that excel in that role. I just find it curious how so many members seem so worried about defeating body armor with their HD weapon. There's a lotta room around 'em....plates.... I have not seen a 300 Ham'r test on body armor, there is this video with Kevlar, but it appears they put it behind the gel block so the bullet only hit at exit speed. However if a 150gr SST round at 200 yards can drop what looks to be about a 800lb Bull Elk hitting someone in the chest wearing body armor in close range in a home defense situation even if it does not penetrate, they will be on the ground wishing it did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gic3xU93CuwI'm sure there are tests out there , but I'd much rather see the gel block at 100 yds ... and with a 16" bbl. |
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Quoted: So is there anything worth loading that isn't already available as a commercially loaded round? https://accuraoutdoors.com/product/308-120-sp/ I have loaded them up to 2400fps with out any issue. They shoot around 2 moa. I use them with fresh formed 556 cases, so it fire forms the shoulder for use with better bullets. |
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Found this very interesting. Only available as a blem, and the one review was pretty bad, but it was two years ago. https://www.sigsauer.com/300-ham-r-elite-series-soft-point-hunting-125gr-1-blem.html  I didn't know SIG made a 300 HAM'r round at some point. Nothing current is available, so maybe it was a short test run. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 300 HAM'R (HAMR) (Page 1 of 3)
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