AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/10/2019 9:57:08 PM EDT
| Has anyone shot one yet? I am extremely interested in getting one and have found very little information from actual users. Most of the people are biased towards Wilson which is the only manufacturer of the rounds or barrels. |
|
Quoted:
Has anyone shot one yet? I am extremely interested in getting one and have found very little information from actual users. Most of the people are biased towards Wilson which is the only manufacturer of the rounds or barrels. |
|
0002s
The simple answer is "energy." Energy is derived from mass (weight) and velocity. Given the same bullet weight, additional speed translates into greater energy. There is a nice formula quoted in most reloading manuals, but I prefer to hit a few buttons on my iPod and let it do the math. smitters As for Wilson Combat being the only source for ammunition, guns, and barrels, I would say that is a temporary situation. Every new cartridge must start somewhere and the 300 HAM'R started at Wilson Combat. Then as other companies take an interest, they have to repeat the testing that Wilson has already done, and this takes a period of time. When you are talking about things that go "boom" and the given liability issues, each company will do their own test before they introduce new products. There is a lot of interest in the 300 HAM’R throughout the industry and I would expect 2020 to be a good year for it. Yes, I am bias. Mr. Wilson invited me to take part in their testing from day one and we worked with the new cartridge for almost a solid year before he introduced the 300 HAM'R. I think he allowed me to follow along because I don't work for him and have no financial ties to any of this. Also, the people that know me realize I don't mind calling out BS when I see it. Most of the testing involved working up the loading data and testing various .30 caliber bullets. (there are a lot of suitable bullets for this cartridge) Barrel lengths and twist rates just added to the process. Over this period, I shot some very notable groups, but I also shot some that were god awful. I will say that Wilson’s claim to over 500 hogs killed with this cartridge is just those that HE has shot. I proudly own the first upper to ever be labeled 300 HAM’R and I’ve been very satisfied with the results in the field. The barrel is the only change made to the standard AR-15, and Wilson’s barrels are high quality at a reasonable price. How this cartridge relates to other cartridges varies depending what you pit it against. If you want to shoot sub-sonic, stay with a 300 Blackout and recognize its limitations. If you are shooting supersonic, the 300 HAM’R outclasses the blackout and the 7.62x39. When it comes to the 6.5G (I really like this cartridge), you need to think about your intended purpose. If I am shooting paper or metal targets pass 500 yards, I would probably choose the 6.5G for the higher BC of the bullets. However, (here is where I tick off a few people) if your target (medium size game) is breathing, you have no ethical reason to shoot it past 250 yards and the300 HAM'R is a better choice. I spent a year playing with this round so I could keep writing for hours, and I could tell you what a great hunting cartridge it is. But my dark side favors it for being an outstanding defensive (and offensive) round. I think the AR-15 is one of the all-time great rifle designs, but I have no use for the 5.56 past coyote hunting. By the way, don't complain to me when you see a shortage of .308 bullets in the 110-150 weight range about the middle of 2020. |
|
Good article on so pros/cons vs other calibers. https://www.nextlevelarmory.us/2018/09/25/300-hamr-vs-300-blackout-blk/ |
|
Awesome information, thank you all for responding. I know my big desire with this round is the ease of which I can reload it. I currently have a lot of 223 brass, which I can shoot as 223 or convert to 300 BO or HAM'R depending on my needs. Then because I shoot a lot of 300 BO I can have some interchangeability in bullets. I know the HAM'R is designed for specific bullet weights, ie the 120-130 I believe, but I can shoot them through my 300 BO too. Less effective I know but in a pinch having the ability to use the same powder, same primer, same brass, same bullet is nice to think about.
I will admit that my goal isn't exactly to replace my hunting rifle; where I hunt a 12 Ga is without a doubt the most effective for my ranges. It is more about trying to reload a new caliber and make the most of 30 cal bullets. |
|
Quoted:
0002s The simple answer is "energy." Energy is derived from mass (weight) and velocity. Given the same bullet weight, additional speed translates into greater energy. There is a nice formula quoted in most reloading manuals, but I prefer to hit a few buttons on my iPod and let it do the math. smitters As for Wilson Combat being the only source for ammunition, guns, and barrels, I would say that is a temporary situation. Every new cartridge must start somewhere and the 300 HAM'R started at Wilson Combat. Then as other companies take an interest, they have to repeat the testing that Wilson has already done, and this takes a period of time. When you are talking about things that go "boom" and the given liability issues, each company will do their own test before they introduce new products. There is a lot of interest in the 300 HAM’R throughout the industry and I would expect 2020 to be a good year for it. Yes, I am bias. Mr. Wilson invited me to take part in their testing from day one and we worked with the new cartridge for almost a solid year before he introduced the 300 HAM'R. I think he allowed me to follow along because I don't work for him and have no financial ties to any of this. Also, the people that know me realize I don't mind calling out BS when I see it. Most of the testing involved working up the loading data and testing various .30 caliber bullets. (there are a lot of suitable bullets for this cartridge) Barrel lengths and twist rates just added to the process. Over this period, I shot some very notable groups, but I also shot some that were god awful. I will say that Wilson’s claim to over 500 hogs killed with this cartridge is just those that HE has shot. I proudly own the first upper to ever be labeled 300 HAM’R and I’ve been very satisfied with the results in the field. The barrel is the only change made to the standard AR-15, and Wilson’s barrels are high quality at a reasonable price. How this cartridge relates to other cartridges varies depending what you pit it against. If you want to shoot sub-sonic, stay with a 300 Blackout and recognize its limitations. If you are shooting supersonic, the 300 HAM’R outclasses the blackout and the 7.62x39. When it comes to the 6.5G (I really like this cartridge), you need to think about your intended purpose. If I am shooting paper or metal targets pass 500 yards, I would probably choose the 6.5G for the higher BC of the bullets. However, (here is where I tick off a few people) if your target (medium size game) is breathing, you have no ethical reason to shoot it past 250 yards and the300 HAM'R is a better choice. I spent a year playing with this round so I could keep writing for hours, and I could tell you what a great hunting cartridge it is. But my dark side favors it for being an outstanding defensive (and offensive) round. I think the AR-15 is one of the all-time great rifle designs, but I have no use for the 5.56 past coyote hunting. By the way, don't complain to me when you see a shortage of .308 bullets in the 110-150 weight range about the middle of 2020. So there is that much difference in knockdown past 150? The videos I’ve watch make it seem like a .308 round, but thermal video distances are deceiving. |
|
Just a couple of items to clear things up. "Proprietary cartridge" has been used a few times and is incorrect. Wilson made a point of making sure this cartridge is non-proprietary. Any company (or person) may order and use a chamber reamer without Wilson approval. It is wide open to the public. And as I hinted to before, 2020 will be a good year for the 300 HAM'R.
Yes, Wilson Combat has the 7.62x40WT as one of their AR cartridges. The concept is very similar, and at the start of the project simple improvements to the 7.62x40 were considered. One of the first barrels I tested had a 7.62x40 Spec. II chamber. However, we soon found that more could be done to both the cartridge and the chamber and these improvements justified a fresh design. I've been shooting the 7.62x40WT since 2011 and love it. It will always have a place in my collection, but I must admit the 300 HAM'R is a noticeable step forward. In reference to the bullets, I like the idea of the 130 Hot Core bullets and everything I have hit with it WENT DOWN! After my hunting partners saw the results on the deer and the bear I hit last year, they decided it was time to come over to my place and have a "HAM'R" building party! Bill Wilson has really had some VERY good results with the 150's and I'll be doing my "field test" in two weeks when our deer season opens here. Also, during the testing I ended up with about 1,000 rounds of various versions of "factory" brass. But for me that is just enough to get started and I just finished the conversion of 5,000 once-fired Lake City 5.56 cases. The conversion is a straightforward process, and now I think I'm set for a while.  The current price of surplus 5.56 brass is a winner for everyone.
|
|
I just read my own reply and thought I should clear up one detail.
"One of the first barrels I tested had a 7.62x40 Spec. II chamber." There has never been a "Spec. II" for the 7.62x40WT. That is just a name used during the testing process. So, 7.62x40WT owners can relax, no changes have been made to your cartridge or chambers. |
|
I'd like to know how it works out of a short barrel. What I often see in regards to .300blk is how it is best suited for suppressed shooting....but that is only half the story. Nothing is better out of a short barrel (7-10 inch range) than .300blk...can or no can. And "better" includes more than just ballistic numbers...it also means not flash banging yourself. So far it seems to be in the 16-18" range. The .300 "Black Hammer" could be a winner..... |
|
Quoted:
In one of the articles I read it stated that if using 5.56 brass, powder should be reduced by 5%. So I guess it can be used, but at a reduced load. Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought it didn’t use 556 brass, but it’s own brass to achieve to the claimed ballistics? NOTE: PRVI .223/5.56 cases can't be used, the necks are too thick and the loaded cartridge won't fit into the chamber |
|
Quoted:
I'd like to know how it works out of a short barrel. What I often see in regards to .300blk is how it is best suited for suppressed shooting....but that is only half the story. Nothing is better out of a short barrel (7-10 inch range) than .300blk...can or no can. And "better" includes more than just ballistic numbers...it also means not flash banging yourself. So far it seems to be in the 16-18" range. The .300 "Black Hammer" could be a winner..... 110 HP High 2251 FPS Low 2213 FPS Aver. 2238 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.5 125 PH High 2231 FPS Low 2193 FPS Aver. 2204 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.3 125 TNT High 2173 FPS Low 2161 FPS Aver. 2168 FPS E.S. 12 FPS S.D. 4.2 |
|
Quoted: This 8" barrel chrono data is from back in June and since then we have switched to a faster powder that gives better short barrel velocity on loads with 110gr or lighter bullets. But it will give you an idea what the HAM'R does out of a 8" bbl. This is based on 10 shots of each load at 80 degrees and 1300ft elevation using a LabRadar. 110 HP High 2251 FPS Low 2213 FPS Aver. 2238 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.5 125 PH High 2231 FPS Low 2193 FPS Aver. 2204 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.3 125 TNT High 2173 FPS Low 2161 FPS Aver. 2168 FPS E.S. 12 FPS S.D. 4.2 |
|
Quoted: This 8" barrel chrono data is from back in June and since then we have switched to a faster powder that gives better short barrel velocity on loads with 110gr or lighter bullets. But it will give you an idea what the HAM'R does out of a 8" bbl. This is based on 10 shots of each load at 80 degrees and 1300ft elevation using a LabRadar. 110 HP High 2251 FPS Low 2213 FPS Aver. 2238 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.5 125 PH High 2231 FPS Low 2193 FPS Aver. 2204 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.3 125 TNT High 2173 FPS Low 2161 FPS Aver. 2168 FPS E.S. 12 FPS S.D. 4.2 I can't have a can in my state, but I like .300blk for the reduced blast/flash/gas from short barrels with supers. Will keep an eye out on reviews/updates for barrels in the 7-11 inch range. 
|
|
Quoted:
...So there is that much difference in knockdown past 150? The videos I’ve watch make it seem like a .308 round, but thermal video distances are deceiving. usually i hunt wide open places and it's hard to sneak up on educated hogs. there's usually at least one whose 'watching'. i'm very lucky if i get to start shooting inside of 100 yards and have made a few lucky shots well past 200. i may have a few hundred vids laying around  if you want to see more but the compilations on the thf thread are pretty entertaining, if you like that sort of thing.LINK |
|
Quoted:
110 HP High 2251 FPS Low 2213 FPS Aver. 2238 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.5 Looking at the Ham'r previously, I wondered if the lack of offering of a shorter than 11" barrel was because the Ham'r wasn't as efficient in shorter barrels. No slight to the Ham'r, every round is better than another in some regard. I'd certainly be interested to see the same figures with different powder if the performance is better than those older numbers. |
|
Quoted: Those are within 50fps of what I see with an 8.5" 300BLK. Looking at the Ham'r previously, I wondered if the lack of offering of a shorter than 11" barrel was because the Ham'r wasn't as efficient in shorter barrels. No slight to the Ham'r, every round is better than another in some regard. I'd certainly be interested to see the same figures with different powder if the performance is better than those older numbers. Sure wish all of the activity on this thread could move to the 300 HAM'R Information thread started by Graycard so we could keep of the info in one place???? |
|
Mr. Wilson... I think this would be a great addition to my collection because the 308 bullets have some interchangeability with 300 BLK and the brass coming from a 556 case also makes it more appealing. I know the 300 BO is designed to shoot subsonic, which is my main use, but I have tried to push the 110-120 grain bullets fast and they've done well enough. Now using the HAM'R I will be able to really speed up the 110 bullets to make them even more effective. |
|
Quoted:
Those are within 50fps of what I see with an 8.5" 300BLK. Looking at the Ham'r previously, I wondered if the lack of offering of a shorter than 11" barrel was because the Ham'r wasn't as efficient in shorter barrels. No slight to the Ham'r, every round is better than another in some regard. I'd certainly be interested to see the same figures with different powder if the performance is better than those older numbers. Quoted:
Quoted:
110 HP High 2251 FPS Low 2213 FPS Aver. 2238 FPS E.S. 38 FPS S.D. 15.5 Looking at the Ham'r previously, I wondered if the lack of offering of a shorter than 11" barrel was because the Ham'r wasn't as efficient in shorter barrels. No slight to the Ham'r, every round is better than another in some regard. I'd certainly be interested to see the same figures with different powder if the performance is better than those older numbers. 110gr Hornady SP, SOCOM powder 8" 2273fps 11.3" 2457fps 18" 2643fps |
| Maybe I'm just being a negative Nancy here but I just dont see this round catching much traction. I feel like 300blk has a good hold. 300blk is a niche round and is used far less than 5.56. 300 hamr may be good for those people that were focused on more speed out of a 300blk, which isn't all of them. You're looking at a fraction of users at a fraction of users in a niche market. Yes I meant to say that twice. Not to say it isnt a cool round. That's just my theory. |
|
I commented in the other thread, but that's about 75FPS faster than I see with the Barnes 110 out of an 8.5" barrel. It's better, but not enough to get me to divest myself from 300BLK. Kind of what I expected for results.
But the 11" Ham'r numbers are what the 300BLK gets out of 16" barrels, if that was what one was concerned with...fast, light/medium .30 cal supers in the AR-15 framework. |
|
Quoted:
Maybe I'm just being a negative Nancy here but I just dont see this round catching much traction. I feel like 300blk has a good hold. 300blk is a niche round and is used far less than 5.56. 300 hamr may be good for those people that were focused on more speed out of a 300blk, which isn't all of them. You're looking at a fraction of users at a fraction of users in a niche market. Yes I meant to say that twice. Not to say it isnt a cool round. That's just my theory. We have all heard the term "MBR" (main battle rifle) but the 300 HAM'R is my "OMBR" (old man's battle rifle)
|
|
It somewhat depends on what barrel you are replacing and the new 300 HAM'R barrel you select.
The typical military style upper would require a new handguard, gas block, and gas tube along with the new barrel. An upper that already has a "modern" floated handguard and low-profile gas block may just need the new barrel and gas tube. If both barrels have the same gas hole location, all you need is the new barrel. The only other suggestion I would make would be the use of magazines tailored for the 300 Blackout. |
|
Quoted:
It somewhat depends on what barrel you are replacing and the new 300 HAM'R barrel you select. The typical military style upper would require a new handguard, gas block, and gas tube along with the new barrel. An upper that already has a "modern" floated handguard and low-profile gas block may just need the new barrel and gas tube. If both barrels have the same gas hole location, all you need is the new barrel. The only other suggestion I would make would be the use of magazines tailored for the 300 Blackout. Edit: Never mind. I actually read the entire thread. |
|
Quoted: I look at it in a different light. The 5.56 has never rung my chimes and that is the market I see for the 300 HAM'R. Basically a rifle with the capacity and design of the AR-15, but the power of the 30-30. My AR-10's get left behind due to weight and size, but now I have an alternative in an AR-15 platform that can take down anything I hunt or anything that may hunt me. We have all heard the term "MBR" (main battle rifle) but the 300 HAM'R is my "OMBR" (old man's battle rifle) |
|
Quoted:
It should perform similar to the 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel at ranges under 200 yards. I do take a bit of a issue with Wilson advertising it as near 308 ballistics as it's not even close. 150 grain at 2240 vs 2800 isn't close that's what the 308 is doing at 300 yards. Quoted:
Quoted: I look at it in a different light. The 5.56 has never rung my chimes and that is the market I see for the 300 HAM'R. Basically a rifle with the capacity and design of the AR-15, but the power of the 30-30. My AR-10's get left behind due to weight and size, but now I have an alternative in an AR-15 platform that can take down anything I hunt or anything that may hunt me. We have all heard the term "MBR" (main battle rifle) but the 300 HAM'R is my "OMBR" (old man's battle rifle) As to my claim in regards to a comparison to the .308, I never said it is comparable based on ballistics, what I said and after killing over 800 hogs, 30+ deer, bull Elk, Oryx, Addax, Waterbuck, Kudu, Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Zebra, Impala, Hyena and Warthogs x 8 I still stand behind it 100% that it's very comparable in "TERMINAL PERFORMANCE" to a .308 Win. Here's what I said copied directly from the 300 HAM'R page of the Wilson Combat website: "The 300 HAM’R® was developed for optimal terminal performance and offers near .308 Winchester effectiveness" |
|
Quoted: I have minimal experience with the 6.5G, but a LOT of experience with the 6.8 having killed hundreds of hogs and several dozen deer with it. The 300 HAM'R IS more effective in quickly putting game on the ground, I've proven this over and over. As to my claim in regards to a comparison to the .308, I never said it is comparable based on ballistics, what I said and after killing over 800 hogs, 30+ deer, bull Elk, Oryx, Addax, Waterbuck, Kudu, Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Zebra, Impala, Hyena and Warthogs x 8 I still stand behind it 100% that it's very comparable in "TERMINAL PERFORMANCE" to a .308 Win. Here's what I said copied directly from the 300 HAM'R page of the Wilson Combat website: "The 300 HAM’R® was developed for optimal terminal performance and offers near .308 Winchester effectiveness" |
|
Quoted:
I have no experience with the 300 hamr so I will defer to your knowledge in regards to the performance compared to 6.5 and 6.8. I still don't understand stand how it could offer comparable performance to a cartridge that can equal its ballistics at the muzzle at 300 yards. By the way I recently had the opportunity to shoot your edc x9 pistol. That is the finest handgun I have ever had the pleasure of shooting, simply spectacular. Quoted:
Quoted: I have minimal experience with the 6.5G, but a LOT of experience with the 6.8 having killed hundreds of hogs and several dozen deer with it. The 300 HAM'R IS more effective in quickly putting game on the ground, I've proven this over and over. As to my claim in regards to a comparison to the .308, I never said it is comparable based on ballistics, what I said and after killing over 800 hogs, 30+ deer, bull Elk, Oryx, Addax, Waterbuck, Kudu, Wildebeest, Hartebeest, Zebra, Impala, Hyena and Warthogs x 8 I still stand behind it 100% that it's very comparable in "TERMINAL PERFORMANCE" to a .308 Win. Here's what I said copied directly from the 300 HAM'R page of the Wilson Combat website: "The 300 HAM’R® was developed for optimal terminal performance and offers near .308 Winchester effectiveness" I killed 4 hogs and a doe today and all were clean quick kills. Doe and 2 hogs with 150gr SST and 2 hogs with Gold Dot. I've killed most of my American game with 5 calibers and I'd rank them like this for making clean kills: .458 SOCOM (300gr Barnes TTSX) .30-06 (165gr Nosler Partition) .308 Win (165gr Hornady SST or 165gr Nosler Partition) 300 HAM'R (130gr HAM'R HOT-CORE, 150gr Hornady SST or 150gr Speer Gold Dot) All of the above perform very similar in regards to killing, but obviously the .30-06 and .308 have a range advantage. However most of my shots are 60-125yds. 6.8 SPC II (95gr Barnes TTSX or 110gr Barnes TSX) |
|
Quoted: To be totally honest I don't understand why the terminal performance is so dramatic either, but kill after kill it just performs. Both of the professional hunters I hunted with in South Africa couldn't believe the way it killed or how it shot through both shoulders of two Wildebeest and a big Zebra Stallion. I killed 4 hogs and a doe today and all were clean quick kills. Doe and 2 hogs with 150gr SST and 2 hogs with Gold Dot. I've killed most of my American game with 5 calibers and I'd rank them like this for making clean kills: .458 SOCOM (300gr Barnes TTSX) .30-06 (165gr Nosler Partition) .308 Win (165gr Hornady SST or 165gr Nosler Partition) 300 HAM'R (130gr HAM'R HOT-CORE, 150gr Hornady SST or 150gr Speer Gold Dot) All of the above perform very similar in regards to killing, but obviously the .30-06 and .308 have a range advantage. However most of my shots are 60-125yds. 6.8 SPC II (95gr Barnes TTSX or 110gr Barnes TSX)
|
AR Sponsor
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter