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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 300 ham’r (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/3/2023 12:12:42 AM EDT
| Anyone lovin the 300 Ham'r ? Found myself bored enough to buy another caliber to add to the stable. Went with a Wilson combat 16" fluted 1 in 15 barrel. Interested in 110g to 130g loads. Anyone got any pet loads to share. Star line brass coming soon . |
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Just a few post down https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/300-HAM-R-is-it-worth-trying-/121-777629/ |
| I have a lower waiting for a build and have been considering doing a HAM'R for quite a while. It then got me thinking I could just do a barrel swap on one of my other ARs, but a new build is always ideal. I don't have a 300 Blackout and I don't need to shoot dead silent, no interest in subsonic so the HAM'R sounds like the thing to build. My 308 is a HOG so that's mostly a bench shooter. Again the HAM'R fills that gap. I have a big box of spent 223 brass, reloading equipment so it shouldn't be hard to work up a load. |
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Quoted: Wilson combat barrel arrived, waiting on hanguard Will you be buying or loading ammo? I'd be happy to follow this thread if you continue updating it. I'd like to see groups ... who wouldn't? Will you be using an optic? I'm considering a shorter barrel, but I haven't made my mind up quite yet. My 308 is HEAVY so I figured I'd making a total opposite 30 cal build. |
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Quoted: Will you be buying or loading ammo? I'd be happy to follow this thread if you continue updating it. I'd like to see groups ... who wouldn't? Will you be using an optic? I'm considering a shorter barrel, but I haven't made my mind up quite yet. My 308 is HEAVY so I figured I'd making a total opposite 30 cal build. |
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Quoted: Hanguard made it. Need to get parts cerekoted then assembly. I do plan on reloading, just this morning purchased 500 new brass. Looking at bullet options. Wanting to start with 110vmax and cfeblk. Optic has not been figured out at this time. May use the spare shv Nightforce I have to see groups then acog it . Quoted: Quoted: Will you be buying or loading ammo? I'd be happy to follow this thread if you continue updating it. I'd like to see groups ... who wouldn't? Will you be using an optic? I'm considering a shorter barrel, but I haven't made my mind up quite yet. My 308 is HEAVY so I figured I'd making a total opposite 30 cal build. I thought the entire point was heavier (147-168 gr) projectiles at better speeds than 300 BLK. |
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There is an efficiency to wide mouth short shouldered rounds. It is what helps this little round approach .30-30 performance. It might be able to push heavier pills much harder than the blackout, if it were not constrained by magazine length. After 150gr bullets, the set back impacts case volume and hence is detrimental. That little extra bit of case should be full of powder, not bullet, if one wants to see a difference between the blackout and the hamr. DB |
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Quoted: Yes, I believe the ~130 range is where the Ham'r really starts to outpace the Blackout. Short barrels don't really help matters either, in sub-10" the numbers between Blackout and Ham'r are near identical. That’s right, it’s 130 range and up that it sees the jump. Something about higher pressures and thus higher velocities. |
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Quoted: I assume you are quoting what you have read. It actually outpaces it by 200+ fps in the 110 gr bullet range too, in the 11.3 to 16" barrel length. Most will see more like 300 fps. What do you consider near identical? In an 8" barrel, with a 110 gr bullet, you'll still get a 100+ fps bump in the HAM'R over the blackout That's going hot on the 300 blackout side, with a faster burning powder. It's hard to get much over pressure with a 110 gr VMAX and cfeblk in the 300 HAM'R. The case gets too full. Most will see closer to 200 fps gain between the two in an 8" barrel. I've experimented with 5.5", 6.75", 8", 9", and 16" in the 300 BLK. In the 300 HAM'R, most of my experimenting has been 8", 11.3", and 16". I have some experience with an 18" 300 HAM'R, but it is a little long for me. For me, I like to suppress everything in an AR or bolt action style firearm, and 8" to 16" is the length range I prefer in AR15 style firearms. The sweet spot for length vs MV gain in 300 BLK is 8". With 300 HAM'R it's probably somewhere between 8" and 11.3", but I don't have fine enough increments in length to exactly figure it out. The 300 BLK is a gain of 100+ fps per inch until 8". From there it drops down to the neighborhood of 30 fps per inch. For the 300 HAM'R it is around 30 fps per inch from 11.3" to 16". From 8" to 11.3" it is over 50 fps per inch. It centers around the powder used. You have a 1/4" more case length in the 300 HAM'R than the 300 Blackout, which allows a little slower burning powder, to achieve more velocity in slightly longer barrels. I haven't experimented with something like H110 in the 300 HAM'R. It would likely give me a little more in the 8" barrel, if I didn't blow it up. These are my actual observations. If you have actual experience, I'd be interested in hearing about it if your results are different. Came here to say this. Bill Wilson posted up some actual velocities here a while back and the HAM'R outpaced the BLK by a couple hundred fps even from a 9" barrel. It was a while back so likely the thread got archived. But if anyone is bored..... |
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I am in the process of building a 300 Ham'r. The purpose is a lightweight hunting rifle. I have a bolt, built for medium to long range. It is a PITA to lug around the WV woods/mts. After researching all the available calibers, the 300 Hamr is definetly the best for hunting. Better than thev300 blk, 6.8, or 6.5 grend. I have a bolt in 350 legend for ohio. Was not interested in another one. I have a Spikes stripped lower and Shaw barreled upper completed so far. I see you can get a complete upper from Shaw as well. Looks pretty good. Hopefully will get this complete before spring. Need to get the lower completed. Gonna go BCM enhanced lower and buffer kit. Will probably go Mavin RS.2 on the scope. |
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Quoted: Came here to say this. Bill Wilson posted up some actual velocities here a while back and the HAM'R outpaced the BLK by a couple hundred fps even from a 9" barrel. It was a while back so likely the thread got archived. But if anyone is bored..... Quoted: Quoted: I assume you are quoting what you have read. It actually outpaces it by 200+ fps in the 110 gr bullet range too, in the 11.3 to 16" barrel length. Most will see more like 300 fps. What do you consider near identical? In an 8" barrel, with a 110 gr bullet, you'll still get a 100+ fps bump in the HAM'R over the blackout That's going hot on the 300 blackout side, with a faster burning powder. It's hard to get much over pressure with a 110 gr VMAX and cfeblk in the 300 HAM'R. The case gets too full. Most will see closer to 200 fps gain between the two in an 8" barrel. I've experimented with 5.5", 6.75", 8", 9", and 16" in the 300 BLK. In the 300 HAM'R, most of my experimenting has been 8", 11.3", and 16". I have some experience with an 18" 300 HAM'R, but it is a little long for me. For me, I like to suppress everything in an AR or bolt action style firearm, and 8" to 16" is the length range I prefer in AR15 style firearms. The sweet spot for length vs MV gain in 300 BLK is 8". With 300 HAM'R it's probably somewhere between 8" and 11.3", but I don't have fine enough increments in length to exactly figure it out. The 300 BLK is a gain of 100+ fps per inch until 8". From there it drops down to the neighborhood of 30 fps per inch. For the 300 HAM'R it is around 30 fps per inch from 11.3" to 16". From 8" to 11.3" it is over 50 fps per inch. It centers around the powder used. You have a 1/4" more case length in the 300 HAM'R than the 300 Blackout, which allows a little slower burning powder, to achieve more velocity in slightly longer barrels. I haven't experimented with something like H110 in the 300 HAM'R. It would likely give me a little more in the 8" barrel, if I didn't blow it up. These are my actual observations. If you have actual experience, I'd be interested in hearing about it if your results are different. Came here to say this. Bill Wilson posted up some actual velocities here a while back and the HAM'R outpaced the BLK by a couple hundred fps even from a 9" barrel. It was a while back so likely the thread got archived. But if anyone is bored..... It IS faster than a 300 BLK with light projectiles, but IIRC it’s significantly faster with 135 to 150 or so projectiles. ETA: I can’t find the article with the velocities I’ve posted before |
| I do own a 300 blackout with 8" suppressed as that's what I believe the purpose of a blackout is and where it shines. 220g subs at 1000fps is stealth . Lol. No supers in mine. The hammer fills the medium duty nitch for Me with 110g to 150g bullets, I'll probly settle in on some 120g or 130g. |
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Quoted: I assume you are quoting what you have read. It actually outpaces it by 200+ fps in the 110 gr bullet range too, in the 11.3 to 16" barrel length. Most will see more like 300 fps. What do you consider near identical? In an 8" barrel, with a 110 gr bullet, you'll still get a 100+ fps bump in the HAM'R over the blackout That's going hot on the 300 blackout side, with a faster burning powder. It's hard to get much over pressure with a 110 gr VMAX and cfeblk in the 300 HAM'R. The case gets too full. Most will see closer to 200 fps gain between the two in an 8" barrel. I've experimented with 5.5", 6.75", 8", 9", and 16" in the 300 BLK. In the 300 HAM'R, most of my experimenting has been 8", 11.3", and 16". I have some experience with an 18" 300 HAM'R, but it is a little long for me. For me, I like to suppress everything in an AR or bolt action style firearm, and 8" to 16" is the length range I prefer in AR15 style firearms. The sweet spot for length vs MV gain in 300 BLK is 8". With 300 HAM'R it's probably somewhere between 8" and 11.3", but I don't have fine enough increments in length to exactly figure it out. The 300 BLK is a gain of 100+ fps per inch until 8". From there it drops down to the neighborhood of 30 fps per inch. For the 300 HAM'R it is around 30 fps per inch from 11.3" to 16". From 8" to 11.3" it is over 50 fps per inch. It centers around the powder used. You have a 1/4" more case length in the 300 HAM'R than the 300 Blackout, which allows a little slower burning powder, to achieve more velocity in slightly longer barrels. I haven't experimented with something like H110 in the 300 HAM'R. It would likely give me a little more in the 8" barrel, if I didn't blow it up. These are my actual observations. If you have actual experience, I'd be interested in hearing about it if your results are different. Yes, I'm basing it on what Bill Wilson posted for numbers in this forum when I asked him. When the Ham'r came out I was interested as it might have been worthwhile to replace my Blackout had the numbers been considerably (which is arbitrary) better in the ~8.5" barrel length. I'd consider +200FPS in 8.5" (so 2400FPS) with a 110gr bullet to be a "significant" gain over Blackout. That's why I specifically said sub-10" barrel, because I know what happens as barrel length increases. I'm not bashing the Ham'r. From everything that I've seen published, including your post, as the barrel gets longer in both calibers, the Ham'r is the clear winner in putting the extra length to use. But at 8-9" I didn't see the gains being significant enough to put the Ham'r in a different class of performance. The differences were well within what could be achieved by using one powder vs. another. Even if the Ham'r outperforms the Blackout, I personally don't see that amount of difference as particularly noteworthy. I don't mean its not there, I just think if going 11"+, the difference is noticeable. The choice for performance becomes much clearer. I know the 8.5"/2200FPS numbers in Blackout with the 110gr TAC-TX are real (Barnes load data 20.2grs of W296/H110) because that's my hunting load and I've shot it over a chronograph, as well as others having same results. If the Ham'r can push a 120-150gr bullet out of an 8.5" barrel at 2200FPS or better, then that changes the dynamic, especially since Barnes also makes the 120gr TAC-TX. |
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Here are the velocities I discussed earlier. I cannot find the article I took them from but I found an old thread. 300 HAM'R 16.25" Barrel Sierra 110gr HP 2600FPS MV, 1651FP ME Sierra 125gr SBT 2520FPS MV, 1763FP ME Sierra 135gr HP Varminter 2400FPS MV, 1727FP ME Hornady 150gr SST 2290FPS MV, 1747FP ME 300 BLACKOUT 16.25" Barrel Hornady Black 110gr V-MAX 2395FPS MV, 1401FP ME Hornady 125gr HP American Gunner 2175FPS MV, 1313FP ME Hornady 135gr FTX 2055FPS MV, 1266FP ME Federal 150gr Fusion 1900FPS MV, 1202FP ME |
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Quoted: Seeing how hard it seems to find available hamr bullets. I found some 125 tnt's in bulk. Anyone with experience and or suggestions Here is a link to the Load Data Wilson Combat provides Wilson Combat Load Data |
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Quoted: As mentioned in the link I first posted. They work great. 1 moa (sometimes less) for me. |
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Here are six 5 shot groups at 100 yards with 125TNTs, 27.5gr CFE BLK and new Starline brass. 1-13" twist 16" Wilson barrel Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Looks like 4 but I shot 5 times. Attached File |
| Just ordered my 11.3" barrel. Planning on shooting 125 grainers, either 125sst,125tnt or 125FMJ for the range. Im gonna see if this can replace my 8.5inch 300blk upper and use it for 150yard or less shots on hogs an small (yea lol) Texas hill country deer. Shooting for 2300fps with AA1680. |
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Quoted: Just ordered my 11.3" barrel. Planning on shooting 125 grainers, either 125sst,125tnt or 125FMJ for the range. Im gonna see if this can replace my 8.5inch 300blk upper and use it for 150yard or less shots on hogs an small (yea lol) Texas hill country deer. Shooting for 2300fps with AA1680. I bet you get more speed than that out of it. |
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I like new cartridges. I like WC. For hunting purposes though, the almighty 110 TAC-TX wins. 300BO vs 300 hammer is moot because of that bullet. A 300BO loaded with a 110 TTSX will kill as far/farther more reliably than a 300 hammer loaded with any other projectile. Not sure if you can load the 300 hammer with the TAC-TX bullets due to OAL. If you can, then you might gain a little yardage. I've seen it for years, but bullet design trumps moderate velocity gains, and that bullet makes the 300BO kill much more effectively than it has the powder capacity to deserve. |
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Quoted: How could you possibly know that unless you used both side by side and tried every projectile option. Killed alot of black bear/whitetail with the 300BO and TAC-TX. Killed alot black bear with a Rem 30 AR pushing 125-150 30 cal bullets 2-300 fps faster than a 300 hammer. Killed 2 black bear and one whitetail in 2019 with a 16" 300 hammer. I know whats worked for me based on my experiences. Fortunately for me I live in an area and have a lifestyle that I get to kill alot of medium game. 300 hammers OAL only allows very short and stubby 30 cal projectiles. If the TAC-TX didn't exist, I'd say for supers 300 hammer would be a better killer/hunting round than the 300BO all the way around. But the TAC-TX does exist, and with its slick design per bullet weight, and nearly perfect expansion/reliability with every kill, I've not taken the hammer out of the safe since that season. 300 hammer bullet selection and terminal performance mimic downloaded 30-30 performance. It is more inherently accurate than the Blackout because the twist and throat dimensions don't have to take subsonic into account. If these were really game killers beyond 300 yards, that would weigh more on my opinion regarding these two cartridges. Not bad at all, but why go to a more boutique cartridge when the 300 blackout is wildly more available with a more reliable bullet for appropriate hunting scenarios? |
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Ham'r should be more accurate and have a flatter trajectory at range than 300 BO via the chamber throat/twist example you gave. Some people like that. Seems like personal choice. Hunting seems to have a bit more flexibility in cartridge choice. When you want to the cartridge to do more than hunting things like trajectory and accuracy seem to matter more. |
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Quoted: Killed alot of black bear/whitetail with the 300BO and TAC-TX. Killed alot black bear with a Rem 30 AR pushing 125-150 30 cal bullets 2-300 fps faster than a 300 hammer. Killed 2 black bear and one whitetail in 2019 with a 16" 300 hammer. I know whats worked for me based on my experiences. Fortunately for me I live in an area and have a lifestyle that I get to kill alot of medium game. 300 hammers OAL only allows very short and stubby 30 cal projectiles. If the TAC-TX didn't exist, I'd say for supers 300 hammer would be a better killer/hunting round than the 300BO all the way around. But the TAC-TX does exist, and with its slick design per bullet weight, and nearly perfect expansion/reliability with every kill, I've not taken the hammer out of the safe since that season. 300 hammer bullet selection and terminal performance mimic downloaded 30-30 performance. It is more inherently accurate than the Blackout because the twist and throat dimensions don't have to take subsonic into account. If these were really game killers beyond 300 yards, that would weigh more on my opinion regarding these two cartridges. Not bad at all, but why go to a more boutique cartridge when the 300 blackout is wildly more available with a more reliable bullet for appropriate hunting scenarios? and these exist also https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR-110GR-LEHIGH-CC-2650-FPS-18-BARREL-20_BOX/productinfo/A300HMR%2D110%2DCC/ |
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Quoted: The Hamr is not a "boutique" cartridge. It's is very easily made from a 223 case, just like the blackout. and these exist also https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR-110GR-LEHIGH-CC-2650-FPS-18-BARREL-20_BOX/productinfo/A300HMR%2D110%2DCC/ Sorry, I was generalizing. In general, any cartridge that's only easily made my handloading, and specialty bullets are usually in limited stock/supply, with only a handful (if even) of ammo manufacturers to me is "boutique." It's not a bad cartridge at all. If a guy likes it, and likes to support WC, by all means go to town. I've got all kinds of cartridges I have no "use" for but still buy, shoot, and handload them because I think they are cool. But if a new shooter / someone getting into a variant besides 5.56, I'm going to share my experience in hopes it can help enrichen their final decision towards a rewarding final purchase. No offense intended. |
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Quoted: Sorry, I was generalizing. In general, any cartridge that's only easily made my handloading, and specialty bullets are usually in limited stock/supply, with only a handful (if even) of ammo manufacturers to me is "boutique." It's not a bad cartridge at all. If a guy likes it, and likes to support WC, by all means go to town. I've got all kinds of cartridges I have no "use" for but still buy, shoot, and handload them because I think they are cool. But if a new shooter / someone getting into a variant besides 5.56, I'm going to share my experience in hopes it can help enrichen their final decision towards a rewarding final purchase. No offense intended. I've built a lot of different variants too, just out of curiosity. I shoot more 300 Ham'r and 300 Blk these days, than anything else. I use 300 Blk primarily for target practice, and like the Sig MCX platform, so don't plan to sell them. I would buy a new barrel for them in 300 HAM'R though if they ever became available. I also wouldn't call the 300 HAM'R boutique. It's fine that you consider it that way, but your statement regarding it using only specialty bullets in short supply is incorrect. Lehigh and other bullets have been available through the worst of the COVID shortages, and Wilson Combat always had ammo available. More so than the 300 Blackout 110 gr Barnes Tac TX ammo, or bullets. Also, now that Wilson Combat owns Lehigh, Bill Wilson is working up even more bullets that are very effective in the 300 HAM'R. It's SAAMI approved, so over time it may well develop a larger following. It came out just before COVID, which wasn't a great time. My advice to someone getting into a new 30 cal AR15 would be to decide how important subsonic shooting is to you. If it is important, get the 300 blackout. Otherwise I would recommend the 300 HAM'R. The only other consideration would be if you want an ultra short barrel (under 8"). In that case I would go with the 300 blackout, as the extra case length won't do much for you. At 8" and longer though, 300 HAM'R is my preferred choice. |
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Quoted: I've built a lot of different variants too, just out of curiosity. I shoot more 300 Ham'r and 300 Blk these days, than anything else. I use 300 Blk primarily for target practice, and like the Sig MCX platform, so don't plan to sell them. I would buy a new barrel for them in 300 HAM'R though if they ever became available. I also wouldn't call the 300 HAM'R boutique. It's fine that you consider it that way, but your statement regarding it using only specialty bullets in short supply is incorrect. Lehigh and other bullets have been available through the worst of the COVID shortages, and Wilson Combat always had ammo available. More so than the 300 Blackout 110 gr Barnes Tac TX ammo, or bullets. Also, now that Wilson Combat owns Lehigh, Bill Wilson is working up even more bullets that are very effective in the 300 HAM'R. It's SAAMI approved, so over time it may well develop a larger following. It came out just before COVID, which wasn't a great time. My advice to someone getting into a new 30 cal AR15 would be to decide how important subsonic shooting is to you. If it is important, get the 300 blackout. Otherwise I would recommend the 300 HAM'R. The only other consideration would be if you want an ultra short barrel (under 8"). In that case I would go with the 300 blackout, as the extra case length won't do much for you. At 8" and longer though, 300 HAM'R is my preferred choice. Good points, and I'm happy that the bullet selection for the hammer is better and growing, but then we move on to another of my personal reasons for avoiding love for this cartridge. With the price per round, and basically only shooting supers, for hunting. (5.56 is much better at longer ranges and target shooting in general and MUCH more affordable) you can step into the 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, hell even 6mm ARC I'd give an edge to lethality over 300 hammer. The only thing thr hammer offers over those variants is uses 5.56 mags and bolt, but at a buck a shot, I'm sure someone only using the rifle for hunting wouldn't mind investing in a bolt and mag for significantly more power and range. I can't emphize enough, that for me, this is such a narrow narrow niche cartridge. I like variants and have many just to have them, but the only thing 300 hammer provides is a little velocity over cheaper, more versatile 300BO, which is a moot point when you consider again, the 110 TAC-TX loaded BO has just as far effective lethality against game as the 300 hammer. At the ranges in which the hammers velocity/potential accuracy improvements matter, it has no buisness being used to take game with anyways, say 2-250 yards and beyond. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 300 ham’r (Page 1 of 2)
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