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OP, Many smaller cars are bigger on the inside than they appear. You should go to a dealer and try some on for size. You may be writing them off without justification. On the other hand, if you have bad knees or weak legs, getting in and out might be an issue. The lesson for the younger readers of this post is take care of your knees and do squats so you can get in and out of vehicles easily and on and off the toilet without help as you age. FWIW, I'm 6'-2", in my 60s, and fit comfortably in an Fiat 124 Spider which has same interior space as an ND Miata. It is fun as hell to drive. I only drive my 1 ton truck for truck things because the Fiat is so much more interesting and pleasant. I can't even imagine how much more fun it would be if I lived somewhere with curvy roads. 
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: I owned a 3.6. The rocker arm issue isnt some make believe problem. It exists and it will impact many owners. Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: People watch YouTube or read Facebook and suddenly they're failure experts. Statistically the Pentastar is a solid engine. There are millions of them out there. I owned a 3.6. The rocker arm issue isnt some make believe problem. It exists and it will impact many owners. What's your guess? A fifth? A third? And how does this compare to other engines QRD experience? FWIW the recent class action was settled with some valve train failure extended coverage. A paucity as was Mazdas valve seal or some of Nissans timing chain or CVT settlement. All were something short of 100k (80ish come to mind) and an extra 2-3 years beyond standard powertrain. There was no recall (as it doesn't meet the unreasonable safety risk test, like Hybrid Toyota TTV6) tho abundant TSB and some goodwill provided in some cases. But often not. |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I didn’t say it was a make believe problem  Define “many.” Be specific. Considering there are millions of them out there. Enough to where it should be a consideration to anyone who is exploring owning a vehicle equipped with a 3.6 Pentastar. The dealer had to replace the same rocker twice. Thats beyond a "oops we had a bad run of rockers". Whether its a design flaw or the manufacturer, its clearly a problem area. Most people problem ignore or just dont hear the noise until there is a glitter party in the sump |
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: Considering there are millions of them out there. Enough to where it should be a consideration to anyone who is exploring owning a vehicle equipped with a 3.6 Pentastar. The dealer had to replace the same rocker twice. Thats beyond a "oops we had a bad run of rockers". Whether its a design flaw or the manufacturer, its clearly a problem area. Most people problem ignore or just dont hear the noise until there is a glitter party in the sump Ok, so no specific answer. I’m a buyer. And I did my research and concluded it’s not enough of an issue to deter my purchase. Is that a dice roll? Sure is. But you’re risking failure with just about any vehicle purchase. |
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Just make sure you replace the tie rods.  I wanted a Bronco originally but it was too hard to get/find the spec I wanted without ordering…. Also I can say as someone who’s had both in my shop, the Bronco is a LOT bigger. Just something to consider. I don’t think it would affect OP’s gravel road use though. |
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Originally Posted By CTYC313: A lot of people buy Jeeps, do things cause problems with them, then complain that Jeeps have a lot of problems. They also have a lot of issues related to the fact that the top and doors come off. They're obviously not problem free, and there are some known issues, but overall they get a bad rap. I've had quite a few over the years and no real issues. At least not ones I didn't cause myself.  I've had five Jeeps. One of them, a 1995 Cherokee Sport, was the best vehicle I ever owned. Had it for over 20 years. I maintained it well and never any problems. Sold it to a neighbor kid at 200K miles. He drove it in High School and college and it it is still running great. We had two Grand Cherokees. They both were lemons. Nether one made it 70K miles without major problems. Two other Cherokee that were OK with minor problems. |
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Originally Posted By CTYC313: A lot of people buy Jeeps, do things cause problems with them, then complain that Jeeps have a lot of problems. They also have a lot of issues related to the fact that the top and doors come off. They're obviously not problem free, and there are some known issues, but overall they get a bad rap. I've had quite a few over the years and no real issues. At least not ones I didn't cause myself. That is certainly PART of the reason wranglers/Gladiators have a shit reputation - particularly in regards to suspension/death wobble stuff. Although 100% stock Jeeps have experienced death wobble. It is comical how they brag on the jeep forums - "70k miles no problems!" as if thats something special. The other part is that FCA is a total clownshow. I really loved my JT but I wasnt delusional about the build quality or reliability. It was starting to be a POS in a variety of ways with less than 40k on the odometer. |
 I Asked a Jeep Mechanic Your Toughest Questions |
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: That is certainly PART of the reason wranglers/Gladiators have a shit reputation - particularly in regards to suspension/death wobble stuff. Although 100% stock Jeeps have experienced death wobble. It is comical how they brag on the jeep forums - "70k miles no problems!" as if thats something special. The other part is that FCA is a total clownshow. I really loved my JT but I wasnt delusional about the build quality or reliability. It was starting to be a POS in a variety of ways with less than 40k on the odometer. We bought our 2021 Wrangler unlimited new. Got death wobble at 28k miles. That was 5 months ago(dont drive it a lot). Fixed under warranty. I think I will just install a JKS track bar next time it comes back. |
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Thanks for all of the information. A friend has a gladiator and I don't remember it being small inside but I'm only going to lunch in it occasionally. Bad knees and back so getting in/out of lower vehicles is getting old. I should spend Friday and Saturday driving a couple of different vehicles. |
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: Certainly not nonsense. People have experienced rocker failure at extremely low mileage (less than 5k). It happens. Those rocker arms are ticking time bombs on any 3.6. They replaced a few of them at varying points on my Gladiator with less than 30k on the odometer. And the car was impeccably maintained. Ive worked on a lot of engines. For a non DI engine, the 3.6 isnt one of my favorites to do routine maintenance. The upper intake manifold needs to be removed to access half of the engine. The way the hoses are routed are totally non sensical. And yes. All Jeeps leak. Yeah this is total bullshit; I've personally owned and/or had dozens in fleet use since 2018. I'm sure some people have had lifter and rocker issues, but none of mine have, while there may be periodic QC issues there is certainly nothing systemic or with the design that qualifies them as "ticking time bombs." The older ones were easier to work on, but the PSUs aren't bad. If yours are leaking then you need to be content to let the o-ring seal the oil filter housing instead of trying to gorilla fuck it as tight as possible-you'll stop breaking oil filter housings. Mine also doesn't leak. |
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Originally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Thanks for all of the information. A friend has a gladiator and I don't remember it being small inside but I'm only going to lunch in it occasionally. Bad knees and back so getting in/out of lower vehicles is getting old. I should spend Friday and Saturday driving a couple of different vehicles. There's nothing wrong with the size. I'm a fat fuck and I fit just fine. |
When doubt returns, may it be
That faith shall permeate our scars
When we're seduced, then may it be
That we not deviate our cause
That faith shall permeate our scars
When we're seduced, then may it be
That we not deviate our cause
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Yeah this is total bullshit; I've personally owned and/or had dozens in fleet use since 2018. I'm sure some people have had lifter and rocker issues, but none of mine have, while there may be periodic QC issues there is certainly nothing systemic or with the design that qualifies them as "ticking time bombs." The older ones were easier to work on, but the PSUs aren't bad. If yours are leaking then you need to be content to let the o-ring seal the oil filter housing instead of trying to gorilla fuck it as tight as possible-you'll stop breaking oil filter housings. Mine also doesn't leak. Dude, the dealer had to replace a rocker that they already replaced. They have failed across multiple years, seemingly indiscrimate of location. Its an issue. Whoever is building their valvetain parts fucking blows. Im talking about water intrusion on the interior. At least with the Gladiators, its basically accepted they will leak around the rear glass. I never had a fluid leak of any sort with the engine. I did have two Fox shocks fail and I did have coolant consumption/loss that FCA considered "normal". I didnt have the oil cooler leaks that others experienced. Some have attributed it to over torquing of the oil filter cap but im not totally sold on that explanation. |
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the ecodiesel built by VM is up there for one of the worst engines of all time the dealer I bought my Ram2500 has a sign stating they will not service any ecodiesels. No clue if the redesign that ran up to 2023 is any better than Gen 1 but I think its a hard no and to stay away |
IG: allente1967
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: Dude, the dealer had to replace a rocker that they already replaced. They have failed across multiple years, seemingly indiscrimate of location. Its an issue. Whoever is building their valvetain parts fucking blows. I didn't say it hasn't happened, I said it's not an inevitable problem or design issue. Parts QC issue makes sense since everybody seems to have valvetrain issues these days. Some worse than others. |
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Most modern passenger vehicle diesels absolutely suck balls. Overly complicated, $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to repair when they break something (and they will), basically impossible to work on yourself (though most newer gas engines are also exceedingly difficult to work on). Expensive fuel. DEF and other emissions bullshit to deal with. Etc. I'm only buying ancient diesels going forward. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: I didn't say it hasn't happened, I said it's not an inevitable problem or design issue. Parts QC issue makes sense since everybody seems to have valvetrain issues these days. Some worse than others. It seems a lot of valvetrain issues can be attributed to VCM or DoD. The Pentastar doesnt have any form of cylinder deactivation. |
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: It seems a lot of valvetrain issues can be attributed to VCM or DoD. The Pentastar doesnt have any form of cylinder deactivation. Correct, but the PSU 3.6 introduced in the 2016 Durango and Grand Cherokee does have variable valve lift. FWIW I think a lot of people attribute valvetrain failures to cylinder deactivation because it's a newfangled thing, but I don't think it is always the cause. For example the non-MDS Hemis in HD trucks and MT Challengers have had lifter failure. Non-MDS lifters and MDS lifters have failed in MDS Hemis. So I think in those engines lifter failures are a supplier QC issue, but that may or may not be the case for GM and Ford. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Correct, but the PSU 3.6 introduced in the 2016 Durango and Grand Cherokee does have variable valve lift. FWIW I think a lot of people attribute valvetrain failures to cylinder deactivation because it's a newfangled thing, but I don't think it is always the cause. For example the non-MDS Hemis in HD trucks and MT Challengers have had lifter failure. Non-MDS lifters and MDS lifters have failed in MDS Hemis. So I think in those engines lifter failures are a supplier QC issue, but that may or may not be the case for GM and Ford. I agree its a newfangled thing, but people who have done DoD deletes on the GM products have all but eliminated valvetrain problems. The VCM muzzler has had similar results on Honda engines. |
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Originally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Getting tired of the car. (Scat pack challenger) The old Ramcharger is dead. (username) The original lean burn ignition has finally given out and I don't feel like working on it. Not sure it is worth paying someone to get it running. Have thought about a wrangler but they don't have the best reliability. Just realized they made a diesel version, that sounds cool. Then read they might suck more. Any first hand experience? I'm driving 45 miles round trip to work 4 or occasionally 5 days a week. What else should I look at <$35k used low mileage? 4 door, not the gladiator type. Of course the ducks are stupid and would go in the trash. Wonder how many people won't read this far and mention ducks.  ETA, ah, now I see above where ya say "Bad knees and back so getting in/out of lower vehicles is getting old.". |
Proud and grateful Tennessee Squire
flgfish: "Low mileage cars piss me off. You saving your girlfriend for the next guy? Drive the car and enjoy it. A 911 is damn near bulletproof."
flgfish: "Low mileage cars piss me off. You saving your girlfriend for the next guy? Drive the car and enjoy it. A 911 is damn near bulletproof."
| OP I have a diesel Gladiator, when it's running it is fantastic. I get 22mpg on the interstate with a 3" lift and 37" tires. Please note I said when it's running. In the past year my truck has been in the shop for ten weeks at this point and I don't know when I will be getting it back. I had the fuel pump replaced under recall and it blew up 14 months later leaving me stranded in Florida for three weeks, while the dealer tried to find a new fuel system. It was in the shop for a month around the first of the year because the oil cooler started leaking oil into the coolant. It spent a week in the shop due to the paint bubbling up and having to have the hood, tailgate and two doors repainted. It is currently in the shop because it derated on me while driving down the interstate and I lost power, always fun when towing a boat down I-85 north of Atlanta, I ended up having to cancel my vacation and limp home. That was three weeks ago, the first dealer I took it to, their tech was not rated to do the work that was necessary to complete the repair as the cab has to come off and the dealer it is sitting at now has had it a week and I doubt they have even started looking at it yet. I have talked to three different service departments in the last three weeks and every single one has said they would not keep a ecodiesel unless it was deleted. As soon as I get it repaired I am pulling my winch and lights and trading it in on a Hybrid 4runner. |
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Originally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Getting tired of the car. (Scat pack challenger) The old Ramcharger is dead. (username) The original lean burn ignition has finally given out and I don't feel like working on it. Not sure it is worth paying someone to get it running. Have thought about a wrangler but they don't have the best reliability. Just realized they made a diesel version, that sounds cool. Then read they might suck more. Any first hand experience? I'm driving 45 miles round trip to work 4 or occasionally 5 days a week. What else should I look at <$35k used low mileage? 4 door, not the gladiator type. Of course the ducks are stupid and would go in the trash. Wonder how many people won't read this far and mention ducks. Get a nice used Audi, BMW, or Mercedes......something that makes you enjoy the time you are driving.
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Originally Posted By LRShooter: I've still got the 2012 Durango I bought new for my wife. V6 with 253k miles on it now. She wanted a Suburban back in 2022, but we kept the Durango as well. Only big issue was the oil pump. Last month she decided she wanted something newer. I really tried to talk her into a new Durango with eifher the 5.7 or V-6. She wanted another Suburban though. I think the Durangos are great vehicles, and I'll keep the 2012 until it dies. Originally Posted By LRShooter: Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: We bought a new '18 Durango when we had all five kids still home. Eight years later with almost no issues whatsoever, we decided to turn back the clock and buy a '26 before they dropped the V6 and redesigned the vehicle. We had 140k on the ticker. We upgraded from the SXT to a GT. Love it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/3241/2026DurangoDay1-3827291.jpg I've still got the 2012 Durango I bought new for my wife. V6 with 253k miles on it now. She wanted a Suburban back in 2022, but we kept the Durango as well. Only big issue was the oil pump. Last month she decided she wanted something newer. I really tried to talk her into a new Durango with eifher the 5.7 or V-6. She wanted another Suburban though. I think the Durangos are great vehicles, and I'll keep the 2012 until it dies. They really are excellent SUVs and family vehicles. Three rows of seating, decent fuel economy, decent power, one of the better looking vehicles on the road, fairly reliable, rides nice, well designed interior. What's not to like?
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Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: Considering there are millions of them out there. Enough to where it should be a consideration to anyone who is exploring owning a vehicle equipped with a 3.6 Pentastar. The dealer had to replace the same rocker twice. Thats beyond a "oops we had a bad run of rockers". Whether its a design flaw or the manufacturer, its clearly a problem area. Most people problem ignore or just dont hear the noise until there is a glitter party in the sump Our '18 Durango that we just traded in for a '26 had 140k on the ticker and the engine never gave us any issues whatsoever. For what it's worth. |
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
The only people made safer by gun control are criminals and tyrants.
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I have a 21' jeep Willys eco diesel. I like it. They have a bad reputation for clogging up the particulate filter and it is fairly expensive to un- fuck. Don't care, at least not yet. Thing is fun to drive, gets 26mpg or better. Think I put in a container of Def about every 9 months. Biggest issue I have is the local jeep dealer / repair shop is horrible. I have a recall on mine to deal with and I'd almost rather it burnt to the ground than have to take it to the dealer. Wish it had a bit more towing capacity. I have 19' aluminum deep v i/o powered boat that it can't tow. Other thing that I don't like is you can't put chains on it without getting rims with some offset. It's only rated for tire socks. 10 or 15 miles back on a logging road with 24" of snow and soft road bed is not the ideal case for tire socks. |
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Originally Posted By Butternut: OP, do you care to elaborate on what you're tired of with regard to the Scat Pack Challenger? Are there a few specific characteristics or issues that most annoy you? ETA, ah, now I see above where ya say "Bad knees and back so getting in/out of lower vehicles is getting old.". I'll end up missing it a lot when it's gone. Really fun to drive. It does ride rough, for a car. |
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Wife has a 2019 Jeep Trailhawk with the 2L turbo engine. Been a great vehicle and at 114,000 on the odometer, still runs and drives just fine, no issues with it so far. My 2018 Silverado with the 6.2L is another story, big piece of shit. Engine is fine, the HP is nice, but the rest of the truck is crap, especially that junk ass 8-speed transmission. |
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Originally Posted By EDL: Wife has a 2019 Jeep Trailhawk with the 2L turbo engine. Been a great vehicle and at 114,000 on the odometer, still runs and drives just fine, no issues with it so far. My 2018 Silverado with the 6.2L is another story, big piece of shit. Engine is fine, the HP is nice, but the rest of the truck is crap, especially that junk ass 8-speed transmission. I was a hardcore GMC truck guy for years. My 2019 Sierra transmission does at 60,000 miles. Talked about the problems with the design with the guy that rebuilt the transmission for me. Traded it in and got a Wrangler. |
Charlie Kirk lives on in all of us!
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I don't understand the point of a diesel unless one is towing a huge boat ,RV or a big equipment or ag trailer. (small penis?) just kidding. To the original question from the OP------ Pick something you like and have fun . If you are commuting 200+ miles a week the smart move is to buy a 2 or 3 year old Civic or Corolla then with the money you save buy something fun to play with on the weekends . |
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: I owned a 3.6. The rocker arm issue isnt some make believe problem. It exists and it will impact many owners. Using a top quality full synthetic oil and not going to long oil change intervals supposedly reduces likelihood of problems. I changed my oil at 1000 miles from new to get rid of manufacturing debris, and change it at 5k miles or a year, whichever comes first. Since retiring, my annual miles have dropped way down. 2017 JKUR (Wrangler 4-door Rubicon w/3.6/auto trans). Hard top. I used it as a daily driver for years and it was fine for that. It is a solid front axle so that affects the ride somewhat, but I have not found it bothersome. Go drive one and see what you think. I like the feel of a Jeep when you drive it. I'm >6'3" and not thin, and have plenty of room. 78,xxx miles currently. Hasn't needed a whole lot beyond oil & filter changes and other routine maintenance. Being in New England with the hellish salt products they use on the roads, I have had to replace all of the brake calipers once at various times. Rear rotors. Needed a new battery last year. Replaced one blend door actuator myself. Doesn't use a drop of oil. I am intrigued by the JLs, but have not been in or driven one. |
Don't confuse where I live with where I'm from.
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Originally Posted By car_wash_guy: Is his whole life full of bad decisions? Lol, he's a big Toyota fan and has always had good luck with Toyota products...what are the big concerns with the Tundras? |
Stuff I learned from A-Team: 1)Always pity da fool 2)Carry wire cutters (you may need to defuse a bomb or start a car) 3)Never trust a crazy fool 4)Carry grenade launcher/machine guns in the van 5)Know how to weld 6)Love It When A Plan Comes Together
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Originally Posted By Jason280: Lol, he's a big Toyota fan and has always had good luck with Toyota products...what are the big concerns with the Tundras? Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By car_wash_guy: Is his whole life full of bad decisions? Lol, he's a big Toyota fan and has always had good luck with Toyota products...what are the big concerns with the Tundras? https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Toyota-Recalls-Certain-Toyota-Tundra-and-Lexus-GX-and-LX-Vehicles-V35A-Redux/5-2821183/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Toyota-Tundra-and-Lexus-LX600-Engine-replacement-recall-100-000-units/5-2738830/ |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By Ramcharger_pilot: Started looking at 4 runner vs wrangler videos. What's the best 4 runner? Depends on what youre going to use it for and finding a trim level that fits since they all have their own perks and nuances Just looked at your <$35k and low miles in the OP. Those 2 do not align with 4Runners |
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