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Posted: 1/25/2016 8:37:51 PM EDT
[#1]
No, but See the fruity ghost thread. There's someone who I think bought one in there. No review yet but we talked about their mold.
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Posted: 1/25/2016 8:39:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. See the fruity ghost thread. There's someone who I think bought one in there. I don't surf ARFcom regularly anymore. What /where is this thread? |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#3]
In this sub forum, go back a page or two, you should see it there. Last page or two.
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Posted: 1/25/2016 8:45:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In this sub forum, go back a page or two, you should see it there. Last page or two. It's about 13 threads below this one. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 1:23:23 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 1/26/2016 1:35:50 AM EDT
[#6]
didn't ar15mold basically copy Boris and tried to monetize on his IP?
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Posted: 1/26/2016 1:38:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: didn't ar15mold basically copy Boris and tried to monetize on his IP? Different company, and both were around prior to Boris actually. The company you are thinking of was one posted on cal guns, in ca, and delivered some shoddy products to some and nothing to others. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 10:03:54 AM EDT
[#8]
My biggest concern would be the resin being used in the casting.
Without any type of fiber content in it, Most thermoset plastic resins are not all that strong across varying types of "strength". Resins are most commonly used with a continuous fiber filler like carbon fiber, Kevlar, or fiberglass. All of the quality polymer firearms components that I am aware of are using thermoplastics instead of thermoset resins. Even those thermoplastics used in firearms components have a short fiber fill in them to increase their tensile strength. The most common is Nylon 6,6 with fiberglass. Without some kind of fiber lamination, I would be concerned about it's durability. It will likely be either hard enough to resist abrasion and for the threaded areas to hold up, or soft enough to resist stress fracturing. Getting both in a single resin would be worth marketing all on it's own, and wouldn't need the "unregistered receiver" sales pitch to rack up it's price tag. If you know about steel structure, think of it like tempering where you get a core structure that is different from the surface structure in order to balance the two properties of rigidity and tensile strength. You can't get that with a plain cast thermoset resin. The molecular chains will be the same throughout the material. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 11:00:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My biggest concern would be the resin being used in the casting. Without any type of fiber content in it, Most thermoset plastic resins are not all that strong across varying types of "strength". Resins are most commonly used with a continuous fiber filler like carbon fiber, Kevlar, or fiberglass. All of the quality polymer firearms components that I am aware of are using thermoplastics instead of thermoset resins. Even those thermoplastics used in firearms components have a short fiber fill in them to increase their tensile strength. The most common is Nylon 6,6 with fiberglass. Without some kind of fiber lamination, I would be concerned about it's durability. It will likely be either hard enough to resist abrasion and for the threaded areas to hold up, or soft enough to resist stress fracturing. Getting both in a single resin would be worth marketing all on it's own, and wouldn't need the "unregistered receiver" sales pitch to rack up it's price tag. If you know about steel structure, think of it like tempering where you get a core structure that is different from the surface structure in order to balance the two properties of rigidity and tensile strength. You can't get that with a plain cast thermoset resin. The molecular chains will be the same throughout the material. skim through boris' thread, your concerns are addressed |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 12:23:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I'll probably order a kit to build some 22s. Has anyone here tried it yet? The YouTube videos looks interesting , a stripped lower done in about seventy minutes plus curing. I ordered a 10 pour kit with the 8 color pack. It is supposed to be delivered today. Hopefully I will have some first impressions on what comes in the kit later today and by the weekend if things go well I will hopefully have at least one completed lower. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I ordered a 10 pour kit with the 8 color pack. It is supposed to be delivered today. Hopefully I will have some first impressions on what comes in the kit later today and by the weekend if things go well I will hopefully have at least one completed lower. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll probably order a kit to build some 22s. Has anyone here tried it yet? The YouTube videos looks interesting , a stripped lower done in about seventy minutes plus curing. I ordered a 10 pour kit with the 8 color pack. It is supposed to be delivered today. Hopefully I will have some first impressions on what comes in the kit later today and by the weekend if things go well I will hopefully have at least one completed lower. I see what you did there  |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 8:44:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ordered a 10 pour kit with the 8 color pack. It is supposed to be delivered today. Hopefully I will have some first impressions on what comes in the kit later today and by the weekend if things go well I will hopefully have at least one completed lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll probably order a kit to build some 22s. Has anyone here tried it yet? The YouTube videos looks interesting , a stripped lower done in about seventy minutes plus curing. I ordered a 10 pour kit with the 8 color pack. It is supposed to be delivered today. Hopefully I will have some first impressions on what comes in the kit later today and by the weekend if things go well I will hopefully have at least one completed lower. Please post your results here? |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 10:38:58 AM EDT
[#13]
I received my kit yesterday, looks like everything is there. Instructions are terse and a little dense. Mainly you are supposed to watch the videos from the web site and the single 8.5x11" sheet that comes in the box has a few details and clarifications. The mold itself looks well made. I need to get some silicone as I don't have any handy. I will need to check with them to see what kind they recommend. I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to pour a lower or two.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 10:42:45 AM EDT
[#14]
do you have any idea how many rounds these will last? pretty interesting so far.
Bruce |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I received my kit yesterday, looks like everything is there. Instructions are terse and a little dense. Mainly you are supposed to watch the videos from the web site and the single 8.5x11" sheet that comes in the box has a few details and clarifications. The mold itself looks well made. I need to get some silicone as I don't have any handy. I will need to check with them to see what kind they recommend. I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to pour a lower or two. I watched all of their YouTube videos. Check the tips and tricks vid. They show simple reinforcement upgrades. I think I'll order soon. I'm a DIY'er at heart. I love the concept. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 7:01:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do you have any idea how many rounds these will last? pretty interesting so far. Bruce These ones no, but my fruity ghost lower went ~2000rds before it broke. I have one more that is still going strong at 5000rds. I want to find out what their resin is to see if it can be purchased in bulk cheaper through and different vendor. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 8:29:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I have one more that is still going strong at 5000rds. I want to find out what their resin is to see if it can be purchased in bulk cheaper through and different vendor. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 9:30:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can convince them to disclose their trade secret, as I posted above, I'd be interested in knowing the resin composition, myself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:I have one more that is still going strong at 5000rds. I want to find out what their resin is to see if it can be purchased in bulk cheaper through and different vendor. If Software Janitor can post or email me the MSDS I can start comparing it to other resins and pourable polyurethanes. I asked to see one, and was told it's free with purchase of a kit. I'm curious mostly because so far in all my experiments without some form of reinforcements cast into the plastic the lowers didn't last very long at all and were quite fragile in comparison. Granted this is on an exact copy of a forged and milled lower without any dimensional changes to the lower. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 3:10:42 PM EDT
[#19]
I don't mind paying a little extra to buy the resin from them.
They obviously put a lot of work into this and have to make some money out of it or they won't be able to keep improving and enhancing the product. One question I do have if anyone here might know,is what is the shelf life of the unmixed resin,both opened and unopened cans if it makes a difference? I'm trying to think longer term. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 3:53:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Software Janitor can post or email me the MSDS I can start comparing it to other resins and pourable polyurethanes. I asked to see one, and was told it's free with purchase of a kit. I'm curious mostly because so far in all my experiments without some form of reinforcements cast into the plastic the lowers didn't last very long at all and were quite fragile in comparison. Granted this is on an exact copy of a forged and milled lower without any dimensional changes to the lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:I have one more that is still going strong at 5000rds. I want to find out what their resin is to see if it can be purchased in bulk cheaper through and different vendor. If Software Janitor can post or email me the MSDS I can start comparing it to other resins and pourable polyurethanes. I asked to see one, and was told it's free with purchase of a kit. I'm curious mostly because so far in all my experiments without some form of reinforcements cast into the plastic the lowers didn't last very long at all and were quite fragile in comparison. Granted this is on an exact copy of a forged and milled lower without any dimensional changes to the lower. I did not find an MSDS sheet in my package. There was only one 8.5x11" printed sheet with directions on it in the box. Besides that there was the mold, two cans part A, two cans part B and the 8 color dye packs. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 7:05:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did not find an MSDS sheet in my package. There was only one 8.5x11" printed sheet with directions on it in the box. Besides that there was the mold, two cans part A, two cans part B and the 8 color dye packs. ....very very interesting....if you email them and ask for it they may provide you with one, especially if you give them your order number. Legally they do not have to though. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 1:00:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
skim through boris' thread, your concerns are addressed Now, with the evasive responses to MSDS inquiries from them, it is really starting to sound like they are passing on cheap resins at a high markup. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are selling a mold. From the very beginning, though, my question has been about the resin material. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 1:13:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except Boris uses about $3 worth of resin per casting. This place is charging about $120 for a refill of their resin, for about $20 per casting. Now, with the evasive responses to MSDS inquiries from them, it is really starting to sound like they are passing on cheap resins at a high markup. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are selling a mold. From the very beginning, though, my question has been about the resin material. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: skim through boris' thread, your concerns are addressed Now, with the evasive responses to MSDS inquiries from them, it is really starting to sound like they are passing on cheap resins at a high markup. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are selling a mold. From the very beginning, though, my question has been about the resin material. To be honest the $3 figure only happens when you buy the largest quantity of the Smooth-On resins. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 7:02:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Buddy of mine bought one. Here's a link to his blog about it.
Apparently he received one half of the mold from the pre-production batch so it's not perfect, but they are taking care of him. http://mcthag.blogspot.com/2016/01/safety-gun.html I'll see if I can get him into this thread. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 7:24:33 PM EDT
[#25]
We smushed it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 8:43:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote Historybased on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 8:54:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
based on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? Quote HistoryQuoted:
based on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? The plot thickens... Wes |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 11:47:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
based on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? Quote HistoryQuoted:
based on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? The walls of the magazine well do flex a bit. We never squished so hard it would break with our hands. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:09:47 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryIf you can bend it back & still use it, it's not smushed yet. Thanks for the glorious science. Interesting blog. Have you taken a look @ the Fruity Ghost thread? |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:35:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: based on the way that broke....I think I might know what they're using for a resin. Were you able to "squish" the mag well and see/feel it flex some? The plot thickens... Wes Ladies and Gentleman I'm pretty sure that this "mystery" resin is none other than Task 21. MSDS and data sheet can be found by clicking on the red text. Read the data sheet, then compare it to this post by ar15molds on their website. Here's where you can buy it for a hell of a lot cheaper if I'm correct. Ironically the sample size of Task 21 (which costs $31) weighs approximately 5lbs for shipping weight, matches up almost perfectly with the 15 pour kit from ar15molds (which costs $344....hmmm) |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:46:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ~7 min pot life, 2:1 mix ratio, runny like slightly warmer than room temp honey/syrup, dries to an opaque white color (that's why it's evenly tintable), ~1hr demold time, recommend baking in an oven to final cure at 150deg F.
Ladies and Gentleman I'm pretty sure that this "mystery" resin is none other than Task 21. MSDS and data sheet can be found by clicking on the red text. Here's where you can buy it for a hell of a lot cheaper if I'm correct. Ironically the sample size of Task 21 (which costs $31) weighs approximately 5lbs for shipping weight, matches up almost perfectly with the 15 pour kit from ar15molds (which costs $344....hmmm) Well, there goes that business model. Good detective work. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:52:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, there goes that business model. Good detective work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ~7 min pot life, 2:1 mix ratio, runny like slightly warmer than room temp honey/syrup, dries to an opaque white color (that's why it's evenly tintable), ~1hr demold time, recommend baking in an oven to final cure at 150deg F. Ladies and Gentleman I'm pretty sure that this "mystery" resin is none other than Task 21. MSDS and data sheet can be found by clicking on the red text. Here's where you can buy it for a hell of a lot cheaper if I'm correct. Ironically the sample size of Task 21 (which costs $31) weighs approximately 5lbs for shipping weight, matches up almost perfectly with the 15 pour kit from ar15molds (which costs $344....hmmm) Well, there goes that business model. Good detective work. Yeah well I wouldn't have dug so hard if they hadn't been so evasive about it. I'm not the kind of person you want to piss off as you might be able to tell. They can charge whatever they want because that's the nature of capitalism, but when you're marking up a something 1000% it's gonna rustle my jimmies. There's making profit, and then there's bending people over a barrel. More than likely, if they're smart, they're buying 55gal drums of this stuff and re-packaging. Higher investment up front, but better profit margins and price per ounce. Also check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVLbqHcsJU specifically the parts towards the end. They also have another one here that's worth watching We're on the right page with re-enforcing the lowers with cloth, wire, metal. There's no way a poured lower without these re-enforcements will hold up like some of their videos claim. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:53:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Smushed! |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:15:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote History That's a flesh wound. Super glue that thing back together & go shoot it!
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:18:16 AM EDT
[#35]
This is the left-over resin from the pour. Unlike the lower it wasn't cured in the toaster oven. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:29:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smushed! I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:40:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Smushed! I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. Yeah with the amount of extra material they put into the buffer tube I'd not expect that to catastrophically break like we experienced with the fruity ghost thread. Then again were were duplicating forged and milled lowers without adding any extra material to the outsides of the lowers. Instead we tried embedding stuff inside of the receivers. One the things you guys should look into doing is putting some overlapping strips of fiberglass cloth over the mag well area, wrapping around if you can manage it, and over where the FCG pins go. If you read through the fruity ghost thread the common theme is that the trigger pin holes will egg out with use. You can eliminate that problem by either using a drop in FCG trigger pack (a la CMC single and double stage) or I suspect you can use KNS NRTHP's to stabilize both of them and probably eliminate the egging issue as well. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:45:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah with the amount of extra material they put into the buffer tube I'd not expect that to catastrophically break like we experienced with the fruity ghost thread. Then again were were duplicating forged and milled lowers without adding any extra material to the outsides of the lowers. Instead we tried embedding stuff inside of the receivers. One the things you guys should look into doing is putting some overlapping strips of fiberglass cloth over the mag well area, wrapping around if you can manage it, and over where the FCG pins go. If you read through the fruity ghost thread the common theme is that the trigger pin holes will egg out with use. You can eliminate that problem by either using a drop in FCG trigger pack (a la CMC single and double stage) or I suspect you can use KNS NRTHP's to stabilize both of them and probably eliminate the egging issue as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Smushed! I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. Yeah with the amount of extra material they put into the buffer tube I'd not expect that to catastrophically break like we experienced with the fruity ghost thread. Then again were were duplicating forged and milled lowers without adding any extra material to the outsides of the lowers. Instead we tried embedding stuff inside of the receivers. One the things you guys should look into doing is putting some overlapping strips of fiberglass cloth over the mag well area, wrapping around if you can manage it, and over where the FCG pins go. If you read through the fruity ghost thread the common theme is that the trigger pin holes will egg out with use. You can eliminate that problem by either using a drop in FCG trigger pack (a la CMC single and double stage) or I suspect you can use KNS NRTHP's to stabilize both of them and probably eliminate the egging issue as well. I'm thinking I may want to buy a few drop in triggers... Expensive buggers, but most of them are supposed to give a really good trigger pull. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:45:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm thinking I may want to buy a few drop in triggers... Expensive buggers, but most of them are supposed to give a really good trigger pull. Next to a quality barrel they're the best money you can spend on an AR15 |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:54:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Smushed! I'm pretty encouraged though that the part that broke was the mag well and not the buffer tube thread area. My thoughts exactly |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 1:57:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryThat's some pretty strong stuff. Did you make any thinner or different shaped pieces to test Eta: that garage made my eye twitch uncontrollably 
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Posted: 2/1/2016 2:03:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's some pretty strong stuff. Did you make any thinner or different shaped pieces to test Eta: that garage made my eye twitch uncontrollably Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's some pretty strong stuff. Did you make any thinner or different shaped pieces to test Eta: that garage made my eye twitch uncontrollably NOT my garage!  He's single, I have a wife, my garage would not be allowed to get like that.
Pouring some mix to check colors at about 1/8" thick was very brittle at about an hour after pouring. Because it was just for color checking, we didn't cure it. I snapped one sample in half by peeling the aluminum foil we used to hold the puddle. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 2:36:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Next to a quality barrel they're the best money you can spend on an AR15 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'm thinking I may want to buy a few drop in triggers... Expensive buggers, but most of them are supposed to give a really good trigger pull. Next to a quality barrel they're the best money you can spend on an AR15 Well - a good trigger might be 3rd, after a good bbl, which might be 2nd behind a good lower mold. 
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Posted: 2/1/2016 9:03:21 AM EDT
[#44]
What was the general consensus on Task 21?
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Posted: 2/1/2016 10:54:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the general consensus on Task 21? On paper it makes a lot of sense that's what they are using. It mimics ABS plastics and its properties are a balance between Task 9 (too brittle) and Task 15 (too soft). If Task8 had a longer pot life it would be as close as we could get to a similar resin to Task 21. A 2.5-3min pot life is hard to work wit some you eat up 60-90 sec just stirring the part A and B together. It's also more likely you will trap air bubbles in the mold as it will cure up just as you finish your pour and you won't have time to "spin/rotate the mold for even distribution of the material. |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 3:58:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3--T3KhELVM
This is the left-over resin from the pour. Unlike the lower it wasn't cured in the toaster oven. Crush it in that vise you're using as an anvil? |
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Posted: 2/2/2016 4:14:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Crush it in that vise you're using as an anvil? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3--T3KhELVMThis is the left-over resin from the pour. Unlike the lower it wasn't cured in the toaster oven. Crush it in that vise you're using as an anvil? They'll bend the handle or break their vise before the crush it. Most of these urethanes have several thousand PSI compression strength |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 4:46:57 AM EDT
[#48]
I tried my hand at pouring a lower.
I am zero for three. The first one is, ironically, the one that went best. But I did a piss poor job of getting trapped air out of the mold so there were many voids. 
The second one I did the mold removal in the wrong order and split the lower in half at the hammer pin hole. Third time I made a different mistake taking apart the mold and broke off one of the pivot pin ears. In my opinion it's got too many ways to mess it up and only one way to get it apart right. You've got to be perfect with everything, every time or you're wasting your resin, dye and time. On the plus side, I got to try several color blends to see if I could match the purple M4 stock I have left over from an earlier build. 
Left to right, 3rd pour, 2nd pour, 1st pour. In person, the third pour looks best, in photos the second. Our formulas... 1st is 4 drops of purple dye, 1 drop black. 2nd is 4 drops of purple, 1 drop red, 1 drop black. 3rd is 4 drops purple, 1 drop red, 1-1/2 drops black. Given that it takes about 15 minutes to assemble and prep the mold, then about ten mixing and pouring, then an hour and fifteen to let it harden... three attempts in one night is a bit much. PS: We have the MSDS sheets! I'll have my buddy scan them and post them, if he can remember his login...
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Posted: 2/7/2016 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Make a chocolate one.
 And send it to Tech Branch for a determination letter.
Then try an oatmeal one. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 2:49:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Yeah casting your on lower isn't easy or foolproof. It gets better with practice.
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