Originally Posted By DBAR: Originally Posted By KeithBuckner: My Predator Railed AR Pistol: alpinetek.netfirms.com/guns/AR15/pistol01tn.jpg That's a good looking AR Pistol.  Do you get tired of having to flip up your BUIS every time you want to aim.  I know I did, that's why I went to a LMT fixed BUIS.

Naw.. good idea, though.
I use a reflex on it most of the time, anyway.

KB

Originally Posted By KeithBuckner: Originally Posted By DBAR: Originally Posted By KeithBuckner: My Predator Railed AR Pistol: alpinetek.netfirms.com/guns/AR15/pistol01tn.jpg That's a good looking AR Pistol.  Do you get tired of having to flip up your BUIS every time you want to aim.  I know I did, that's why I went to a LMT fixed BUIS. Naw.. good idea, though. I use a reflex on it most of the time, anyway. KB

Reflex is a good choice.  I just looked through one for the first time yesterday, and I liked it.  I've read that they wash out in dim to no light conditions.  Is that true?  I does seem to be about the perfect size for a AR Pistol optic.

I've never had any problems with that.  The reticle brightness is adjustable on every model I've ever handled.

I've used just about everything from the cheap Ruskie models to the Hakko stuff. I like them all.

Originally Posted By KeithBuckner: I've never had any problems with that.  The reticle brightness is adjustable on every model I've ever handled. I've used just about everything from the cheap Ruskie models to the Hakko stuff. I like them all.

Oh, I  should of clarified.  I was thinking about a "Trijicon Reflex".  The others seem to be a bit fragile IMHO.

I have one of the original Reflexs (single dot) and it washes out something fierce.  I've heard the later models with the triangles are a bit better.

FINALLY- An AR Pistol Forum!

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=122

Thanks Goatboy!

Geez.
This place is going to break me.
Always had a n interest in an AR pistol and this new forum isn't helping.
But it is giving me some dang good ideas.

OH MY GOD,  I only got half-way thru this thread in3.5 hours.  I'll have to work on finishing it tomorrow ( I Hope ), but then I'll have to start over to catch the new post's.
You guy's have given me so much info, and I want to say THANK YOU!
I purchased a Superior Arms "Pistol" Stripped Receiver, and a "Pistol Buffer tube from RB Precision.  It looks like a shortened Rifle Buffer tube, but it has an End Plate for the Receiver, like a CAR Plate, but it doesn't have the alignment groove.  I'm going to order from CC&C their Receiver End Plate Sling Adapter, so I can add a single-point sling.  Now my Lower half is DONE. (For Now, too many mods available, not enough money, wifey gonna kill me)......
I have a VM-HyTech Side-Charging Upper and a GG&G Free Floating Tactical Foreame (everything'a tactical now), and a Noveske Krink USA made Flash Hiderin my parts bin.  Here's my problem, I want one of those CMMG Inc. 7.3" barrels with a Low-Profile gas block, I already have a 10.5" heavy Barrel with barrel nut and Sight base w/bayonet lug and sling swivel, and threaded1/2X28, but I want the 7.3" unit.  And now I'm cash-poor.  BUT, I do have a 10.5" Heavy barrel available for  partial trade toward a 7.3" barrel.
If there is anyone out there that's looking for a 556 10.5" Heavy Barrel please email me.  I really want that 7.3" barrel!!!!!
I Know that this may not be the proper forum, But please see past that and HELP ME, I really want to finish this Pistol.  And I think it's gonna look great, if you can visualize the parts I have, it's going to look great.  Also, I forgot to mention that I'm topping it with GG&G A2 Folding Rear Sight and an EO Tech 552 Sight.  I still have to buy a folding Front Sight, that will work on the FF Forearm, but I must take one step at a time.
I do have to ask if, A Horizonal (In-Line with the Bore) Under Foreame Flash-Light Mount like the TDI OFEK-1 would make it an AOW?
http://www.tdi-arms.com/store.php?pid=206
It is in-line/Parallel with the Bore Flash-Light Mount with a smaller diameter grip.  I Don't Know. and I don't want to addanything that could put me in jeapordy/at-risk.
Please no flames, I'm asking a serious question.  We can mount flas-lights under the barrels of our Glocks, Beretta's,  Kimer's, Sig's, Taurusa's and many other "Pistols"  And these are under and In-Line with the bore.
That TDI Arms mount, would look fantastic with my Surefire G2 Nitrolan, with the P61, 120 lumens lamp, and their 5" Pressure Pad Switch for the SurefireG2 Nitrolan.
Would it be legal?

Also I need someone in the far North East corner of Illinois or far south east corner of Wisconsin to assist in joining the barrel to the upper receiver.  In Wisconsin, Kenosha & Racine are close.  In Illinois, Zion, Winthrop Harbor area's are really close.
Anyone with the proper tools please contact me.


Thanks for putting up with my rambling,
Chief

I've had no problems with the Trijicon Reflex on my M4gery.  Great sight out to 200 yards(mine is 4 MOA triangle which looks more like a chevron).  I have heard of people complaining about washout, but only if they were standing in dark shade and the target was in bright light.  The Relfex is nothing less than outstanding in low-light conditions.  The Eotech would be another great option for a pistol or carbine.

Does bushy make any normal ar15 pistols?

Originally Posted By BadgerArms: Not sure if anybody remembers, but I was having spacers made for cut bolt carriers to work in lieu of the Bushmaster bolt carriers?  Well, I've got them anyhow.  Have to try it out still.  To refresh, the standard bolt carrier turns into a "Tuning Fork" with the top and bottom open if you cut it to the same length as the Bushmaster pistol carrier.  So, I had a machinest turn spacers so that the buffer tube sits slightly further back allowing the bolt carrier to be cut about 1/8" back.  This gives the carrier an arch in the back for more support and only adds 1/8" to the length of the pistol.  It saves you from having to get a whole new bolt carrier, though.  Just cut the one you have.

Have you tried out your spacer mod yet?

.

Originally Posted By georgemu1: Have you tried out your spacer mod yet?

The spacer fits well and gives the bolt that much more travel.  I'll go ahead and cut the spare bolt carrier this weekend and see.  I'm planning on plucking all my data from this thread and posting it in an new thread.  Maybe it will get tacked so people won't have to hunt down the data.  I might have spacers left over that I can sell to interested buyers, but let's get it running first.

first of all, anit gunners dont NEED a real resaon to hate guns. All somebody has to do find a semi reasonable sounding reason and bam!!!! AR pistols are the center of the debate. like the above comment , most gang bangers wont use an AR of any size because they are expensive. Once in a while someone will be different and use an AK or an AR, but most will buy used and inexpensive weapons that they can ditch or wont feel bad about having confiscated. a largely unknown fact is that most bangers never use much more than a 9 mm or 380. most shooting crimes with bangers involve the .22's, .25's, and 380's due to their concealment factor. but of course that hasnt stopped the gunners from trying to take away the second amendment.....the idiots.

i thought this post was going to be inserted on the page i was reading at the time. i thnk it was around 16 or 17

Sometimes I wish that the anti's would win the fight, so that they could endure the rash of murders, thefts, etc that would happen without the presence of guns in private citizens homes.  Criminals know that police response times are most of the time about 5 minutes, and that if they know no civilian has a gun, what's the incentive not to rob someone?  Anyhow, I dont want to be flamed, because in my heart, I don't want it to ever happen, but sometimes it's a nice thought.  

fla556,

...and your point about ar15 pistols is...???

Thanks again for the post. [

Just scratching the AR-Pistol surface.

So I cant use a lower I already have. But I can buy a lower/stipped lower and register it as a pistol?  Which later down the road lets me avoid the SBR hoop jumping when I buy a 7/7.5" barrel?  Or would I still have to do that?

Originally Posted By Soviet: But I can buy a lower/stipped lower and register it as a pistol?  Which later down the road lets me avoid the SBR hoop jumping when I buy a 7/7.5" barrel?  Or would I still have to do that?

You have to be careful here.  You will need to buy a completed pistol or virgin lower reciever that has never been assembled as a rifle.  If you assemble it FIRST as a rifle, you cannot later assemble it as a pistol without first registering it as an SBR.  If it leaves the factory stripped, leaves your dealer to you as a stripped lower or pistol, and you don't assemble it into anything, it's still a component reciever.  You can assemble it into a rifle if you wish, but then it's always a rifle.  Once a rifle, always a rifle.  However, if you assemble it as a pistol, you can then later assemble it as a rifle (courtesy of the US supreme court and Thompson Center) and change it back again permitted you NEVER assemble it with a short barrel and shoulder stock.  It's still considered a pistol for transfer puprposes.

Also, don't have JUST pistol and a shoulder stock unless you also possess a rifle upper assembly.  This can be viewed as "Constructive Possession" as in you had parts that could be assembled ONLY into a short barreled rifle and therefore you possessed a short barreled rifle in spite of the fact that it isn't put together at any point in time.  

Clear as mud, eh?

Originally Posted By Soviet: Just scratching the AR-Pistol surface. So I cant use a lower I already have. But I can buy a lower/stipped lower and register it as a pistol?  Which later down the road lets me avoid the SBR hoop jumping when I buy a 7/7.5" barrel?  Or would I still have to do that?

So I cant use a lower I already have.

Correct

But I can buy a lower/stipped lower and register it as a pistol?

Yes. I bought one that the factory had #'d as a pistol, I made sure my dealer was shipping it overnight to my ffl holder, to make sure there were NO questions.

Which later down the road lets me avoid the SBR hoop jumping when I buy a 7/7.5" barrel?

Yes, actually model1sales didn't need anything special to order a 7.5" barrel. Other dealers may not sell you a barrel for a pistol without some sort of paperwork. Check with del-ton.com, an industry sponsor. Oh ya, and never put, or probably be able to put a stock on it with a barrel less than 16".

Mike

Originally Posted By BadgerArms: However, if you assemble it as a pistol, you can then later assemble it as a rifle (courtesy of the US supreme court and Thompson Center) and change it back again permitted you NEVER assemble it with a short barrel and shoulder stock.  It's still considered a pistol for transfer puprposes. Clear as mud, eh?

So I can flip flop back and forth if I start as a pistol. As long as it doesnt have a short barrel and a stock at the same time, unless registered as a SBR. correct?

Still a little unsure about a virgin lower. Where can these be found?  Say buying a noveske stripped lower (planned for another project but sidetracked) isnt doable?

Originally Posted By dot_bob: Oh ya, and never put, or probably be able to put a stock on it with a barrel less than 16".

Excellent. I do not own any stocks

Originally Posted By Soviet: So I can flip flop back and forth if I start as a pistol. As long as it doesnt have a short barrel and a stock at the same time, unless registered as a SBR. correct?

Yes, you are correct.

Still a little unsure about a virgin lower. Where can these be found?  Say buying a noveske stripped lower (planned for another project but sidetracked) isnt doable?

A virgin reciever is simply one that has never been assembled into a weapon and was never logged in or out as a rifle.  In other words, the dealer's books and 4473 should state either pistol, component receiver, stripped reciever, or something to that effect but can NOT say rifle.  Otherwise, you are being sold a complete rifle in the eyes of the law.  Prove it wasn't?  Kinda difficult.  Heck, if the Dealer gets a stripped lower and sells you a rifle, he has to pay the FET (Federal Excise Tax) anyway so it's in his best interest to make sure it's logged out as a component receiver ONLY.  Ask for a copy of the 4473 if you must to CYA.

Bushmaster says they log their recievers as rifles.  That's BS.  If they were rifles, they'd have paid the FET on them and you KNOW they didn't.  There is some healthy debate on this subject, but it's all BS as well.  The gun is a rifle only if it was made into a rifle.  If Bushy, RRA, or whoever didn't pay the FET, it's a component receiver, pure and simple.  To be safe, get a Stag, Mega, Stinger, OlyArms, or DPMS virgin lower.  They don't mess around.  I like the Mega myself.

I feel I am good to go and spend money now

Thanks for the help Badger and bob!

Edit: Although I cannot find a mega upper anywere.

Ok Let me ask this.
 I am getting a lower that is engraved "PISTOL ONLY" on the side and is logged at the factory as a pistol can i build an 16" rifle with that lower down the road if i want to after i have built a pistol with it the first time?
Iam new to this pistol stuff and i been trying to read this thread for two days and still only have through it.
Thanks E3

Originally Posted By EARRNHARDT3: Ok Let me ask this.  I am getting a lower that is engraved "PISTOL ONLY" on the side and is logged at the factory as a pistol can i build an 16" rifle with that lower down the road if i want to after i have built a pistol with it the first time? Iam new to this pistol stuff and i been trying to read this thread for two days and still only have through it. Thanks E3

You can put a 16+ inch upper with stock on it if you like. Can go >16" without a stock, unless registered as a short barrel.

Originally Posted By EARRNHARDT3: Ok Let me ask this.  I am getting a lower that is engraved "PISTOL ONLY" on the side and is logged at the factory as a pistol can i build an 16" rifle with that lower down the road if i want to after i have built a pistol with it the first time? Iam new to this pistol stuff and i been trying to read this thread for two days and still only have through it. Thanks E3

Yes.  So long as you don't assemble it with a short barrel and stock.  It doesn't matter what's engraved on the receiver, there is no legal definition's that involve marking a weapon "Pistol" or "Rifle" or any other such thing.  What makes it a pistol is the short barrel, lack of a stock, and having not FIRST been made into a rifle.  There is some ambiguity here, but the fact remains via the Thompson Center Supreme Court case, you can do that and stay legal.

 Could i make a pistol upper out of some really bad shape parts, and assemble and some how document it to reserve the ability to build a nice one when i can afford two uppers? then i can sell the upper cheap to someone else with the same plans. Im not tring to break any laws so if you think its a bad idea please voice it.

With the pistol build, it's the lower that matters, You can use any upper under the sun on it.

I tell ya, I like these alot but if I were to do one, I'd make a SBR with a stock like this and a forward grip.  That + a nice aimpoint and you're gtg.

on the M1S 7.5" Upper Is the break permafixed on? Or can i swap it out with ease?

jesus christ! how do i get the stock M1S 3" FF tube off?

Originally Posted By Noner: Originally Posted By Soviet: jesus christ! how do i get the stock M1S 3" FF tube off? Pray real hard, then go buy a rubber pipe wrench.

How is held on... pressure fit? set screws?

No, it replaces the barrel nut.  If you've fired it a number of times, it might be jammed or fouled with carbon.  It also has to be torqued on pretty good.  Not sure if it's a one-piece or two piece.  Probably a one-piece as they are cheaper to make.  At any rate, a good rubber pipe wrench  should do the trick.

Why are you taking it off, if I may ask?  You don't need to take it off to clean, only to repair.

going  to replace it with a carbine length.

just test pic

h

Does Mega make a pistol lower?  

i found the answer to my question

I have posted in other forums and still do not have a difinite answer.  how about CA.  Someone told me as long as I get a virgin lower and register it as a pistol and only build it as a fixed mag and only single shot, I am able to build that.  

Another person told me not at all in CA because  the mag is not in the grip and anything outside the grip is illigal.  

I would like to build one just because I can regardless if its useless because its only a single shot.  If I get a difinite answer  I will go ahead and build it and if not I guess I will be building a long ar since I already have a standard one.  anybody please help.  thanks

AR pistols are specifically pointed out as banned from the citizens of Cali:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf

You intend to build a variant of the POF or Bushmaster that is magazine fed. Which is bad.

Get a 80% machined lower receiver and finish machining it to make your pistol..... but use a belt-fed upper. Ensure you magwell on your lower is not machined out.

Whalla 100% compliant AR style pistol that meets California code. Won't take a magazine.

Don't link up more than 10 rounds when you take it out to the range.

www.lakesideguns.com/title1/upper.html

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf

Sorry I was trying to hyperlink , seems it didn't work.

who still sells a pistol lower stripped receiver? ameetec doesnt list them any more??

I just got a Double Eagle pistol lower.

Originally Posted By squekie: ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter40.pdf Sorry I was trying to hyperlink , seems it didn't work.

height=8

Originally Posted By epdoyle: who still sells a pistol lower stripped receiver? ameetec doesnt list them any more??

Spike's Tactical out of Florida, Gun Smoke Interprise also in FLA.

.223 Pistol lowers are showing up on the PK site:
http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/get_items.aspx?type=0&term=100