Anyone have more info on the status of this case?  Norman v State

Wow - thank you!  That was worth the watch.  

Fingers crossed for open carry in Florida.  I know some of you are taken back by the idea ('why do you need that?'), and that's fine.  Support it anyway.  Freedom should always be the default answer.  I think you'll find it rather comfortable to have people OC around you.

https://www.floridacarry.org/litigation/21-flcourts/70-norman-v-state

SGB?  is our resident florida carry guy, maybe he can comment

I have nothing CoC compliant to say about the entire department responding to that call.

Is there anywhere Mr. Norman has a legal defense fund set up?  

No idea, I'm just learning about all of this myself.

florida carry is representing



 

So many states have successfully enacted open carry without incident that the scare tactics arguments against it are reminiscent of the Blood in the Streets and Wild, Wild West nonsense that the antis tossed at gun rights advocates when Florida lead the rest of the country in reforming gun laws by enacting shall issue back in 1987.

Whether one would choose open carry for themselves or not, it's an important facet of our gun rights and Florida, The Gunshine State, is embarrassingly behind the curve by not allowing Floridians the choice to carry openly when it has become acceptd in so many states.

Regardless of how you feel about personally open carrying a firearm, Florida should allow it. Furthermore, it should be allowed everywhere in the USA.

Agree. While I'm personally undecided about open carry, I do not want to deny the choice to any law abiding citizen.  I'd like to have the choice myself.

Open carry here in WI. Not rubbing it in at all. FL native that is happy I am in a State with Constitutional Carry. Conceal carry also so I have a choice about how I wish to do so.

Go for it guys! Call your Reps & push it through. It's our Right! CCW is the option... Set it right.

Before FL enacted it's concealed carry law, open carry was legal. When concealed was made legal, open was outlawed. Wasn't uncommon to see those working the late shift at the minute marts and gas stations strapped. I remember the last day open was legal, there was some guy walking around Gville with a 1911 on each hip and he made the evening news.

Would love to see it pass but I wouldn't bet any money on it.  They are too afraid of the tourists that will get put off by it.  Which is ironic since most of the tourists come from states with open carry.

Now they say that "foreign tourists" will be scared away.  Considering that tourists from other countries often vacation in other states that have OC I seriously doubt it.  We also know that many foreign tourists love to take in our gun shops and shooting ranges to get a taste of the freedom that we all take for granted (and many of them used to have).

I've said before that I may never carry OC but I want my right to do so back.

I loved her common sense argument, no statistics required with this defense.

 

 

That video is awesome!

Agreed!  I just want to be able to throw a shirt over something I'm carrying OWB.  Regardless of the type of holster, carrying a full sixed pistol IWB is far from comfortable and more of a pain than OWB.  I would be apt to carry more often.  And OWB brings more options in firearms and holsters.

The problems will come from turds who wanna cary a shitty hitec in a Walmart utg and Crossman holster meant for air soft toys. That's when they would repeal it after a few guns come out and discharge.  Personally I rather CC. But I would like to see enforcement of proper carry equipment and methods by LEO if approved.  And before you start your "your infringement" bs argument I want you to think how would you like it repealed if passed because of fools improperly carrying a loaded firearm. You can't give politicians a inch of room to make argument down the line. Remember one step forward is better than one step forward and 2 back.

So your logic is to voluntarily infringe on the Rights of your fellow law abiding firearms owners because the legislature might concoct some hair-brained way to infringe on the Rights of your fellow firearms owners?  You can't be serious about mandating retention holsters and the like?  Yeah, because the government defining what they consider 'safe' couldn't possibly ever go wrong.  I mean, look at that shining star of reasonableness at the BATFE for an example of that's going to work out for us.  How is your 'logic' (and I use that term very loosely) any different than those who claimed concealed carry would result in blood in the street us losing our Rights to own firearms?  What don't you understand about a God-given Constitutionally guaranteed Right?  And who are you to tell someone else how they can carry their firearms (with the force of law)?  

To be blunt - we don't need people like you on 'our side'.  You sound a lot like those people who support the 2nd amendment "but...."

And it will be like the wild west with blood running in the streets just as occurred in all the other states which allow open carry...........................oh wait; that never happened in those states either.

To be blunt theres nothing God given about guns. Otherwise we would be born with them. Go ahead and rock your utg holster and deal with the consequences when you lose your gun. By force or by accident.

If only we had a crystal ball so we could see what would really happen if OC were allowed....Hmmmm


Bingo

There's nothing "God given" about our fundamental Rights?  Our Country is founded on the basis that there are certain Rights that man cannot alienate or override - because they are granted by God.  It's literally the reason our ancestors got on leaky boats to sail across the unknown - to establish a form of government that could not interfere with Rights granted by God.  These are often called inalienable Rights, which the Declaration of Independence outlines.  It's the entire basis of our form of government!  The Constitution and Bill of Rights further outlines Rights that are inalienable ("God given") - things which no government can take away.  Amongst these inalienable Rights is the Right to keep and bear arms.  If you believe that there are not certain rights which are protected from government intrusion and mandates, then perhaps we can all chip in on a one-way ticket to the communist haven of your choice.  Apparently we have no other freedoms because we weren't 'born with them in our hands'?  

What's interesting is your assertion that anybody who disagrees with you about random and arbitrary mandates (backed by the full force of the law) must not be as knowledgeable as you.  Duly noted .  I'm deeply saddened that all those years as an instructor teaching law enforcement officers weapon retention and serving my Country were a waste.  It's a shame that those decades I open carried in Virginia in a retention holster yielded no valuable insight either.  The most interesting part, though, is that you choose to attack a stranger's character rather than try to justify your mind-boggling position (nice edit, by the way).  

Here's a hint for everyone else - anyone who starts off statements with "Rights should be taken away because someone might do something bad...."  is NOT your friend.  They're apologists.  They're sympathizers.  And they're worse than outright 'gun grabbers.'  Freedom is not for everyone.  Freedom isn't safe, and Freedom isn't about numbers.  My Right to keep and bear arms isn't dependent on whether the majority of people in this Country feel they reduce crime or are 'good.'  If the tide turns against you - you can surrender your Rights, and that's your choice.  It's when you cross the line to taking someone else's Rights because you don't like them (because someone might do something bad.....) that you find yourself on the wrong side.  History shows us these well-intentioned (but misguided) people ARE the problem.

Hey - slow down there!  It's not like we're literally surrounded by States that DO allow open carry .  And we certainly shouldn't look at what Florida was like before this random administrative change to eliminate open carry.  No, I think we're better off focusing on fictional scenarios where something bad might happen if we give people freedom.  In fact, let's use that same litmus test everywhere.  Wouldn't the world be a better place without stairs in homes, electricity, motor vehicles, bathtubs, baseball bats, etc.?  People die every day from these devices, and somebody might do something bad with them after all.....

If you have all that training and years in leo then you know they type of person that is going to carry improperly and be used as the example to ruin it for everyone else are out there. And before you get grandiose about beings "attacked" you need to read your post bub.

I know exactly the kind of person you're using as an example, and I 100% support their rights to keep and bear arms in any way they see fit.  I would try to instruct them to carry in a more responsible manner, but it's their choice.  I've heard (and taught about) a lot about cases of inner city youths who carried the cheapest POS they could afford in their waistband.  They had no training, no budget for a holster, but were 'good guys' - often forced to defend themselves in the worst of situations. And ironically - they're the ones who need Freedom the most.  See, I don't cross the line of attempting to take away someone else's Freedom because I don't like it or don't trust them.  They either have rights or they don't.  It's easy to support the Freedom of those who think like you do.  It's how you support the Freedom of a dirty hippy burning an American flag that defines what you really believe and stand for.  Yours is the argument of a tyrant, and there's no justification for it.  

My comment about attacking character was relative to what you stated prior to your edit.  You didn't hurt my feelings!  My point was that you focused on the messenger rather than explain, justify or otherwise support your stance.  It's interesting how you continue to ignore the actual facts (including those of nearby states who allow OC) when fear-mongering and telling scary stories.....

State's attorney really got shredded there.

As I understand it, OC used to be legal in Florida, is legal in plenty of other states and was only made illegal here by a shady move from Janet Reno when she was a state attorney. No doubt that was a feather in her cap for the nomination by Bill Clinton.

1. It is not a law being passed. It is a court decision and it is much harder to repeal something that was never actually passed.

2. " But I would like to see enforcement of proper carry equipment and methods by LEO" Same BS was said about CC carry. You are using the same playbook against OC that they (VPC, Brady, et all) use against CC.

Fact is that other States have OC and they have not had your feared "crappy gun in a air gun holster shooting someone" BS.

Growing up in FL I remember when OC was illegally acted against. It was a crap deal that should have never happened.



Being one of those tourists I agree! True freedom is about choice, is it not?

I OC here & CC. I love having a choice. When I go back home every year I am forced to not carry at all. FL does not recognize WI CCW permits & I have yet to get my Utah CCW. I do not feel I should have to give fingerprints in order to CC. I know you guys that have your CCW in FL have & that is by all means your right as you choose. It is my right to choose not to, just the same. I just don't understand how that helps anything. I live according to my understanding of respect for others trumps whether or not I can get away with something or not because they may or may not have my fingerprints on file.

If I can open carry, as in True Constituional Carry for all Americans, then that is what I would do.

Unless you are a resident of the State of Utah, obtaining a Utah CCW won't allow you to carry legally here in Florida.

Florida reciprocates only with out of state permits that are held by residents of the issuing states, the permits of non residents of those states who are issued permits by those states cannot carry here under those permits.

Of course, out of state residents who are issued Florida Firearms and Concealed Weapons Licenses can carry under them here.

Yeah Ron. Sure.

Sort of like Baxley saying that the self-defense (he even improperly referred to it as SYG) statute that (he said) he authored did not apply in the Zimmerman case.


No, it was not 'misconstrued'. Open Carry was explicitly clarified as being lawful (is was already anyway), by the shall issue/preemption statutory changes. No one can convince me that this was inadvertent or a mistake.

It was simply the added media frenzy (from South Florida )  and the resultant FSA uproar about it, piled on top of all the 'controversy' and hand-wringing over shall-issue and preemption that caused them to rethink it several months later in a special session.

Interesting. Maybe I got the wrong impression, I wasn't here for this stuff.

Here is what I took from the appellate court video on page 1. The attorney in the video insinuated that OC was intentionally written in to the CWP legislation but sloppy writing of that legislation allowed for legal OC in places restricted to concealed carry (government offices, schools etc). Janet Reno brought that fact to the legislatures attention, through her position as a state attorney, and caused a panic resulting in a "stopgap" revision that banned OC completely (just as she was hoping). The intention of the legislature being to go back and write a good law that included OC with the same location restrictions as concealed carry was implied as well. The fact that they never got around to it was the reason the case was before the court.

Where did I go wrong?

Thanks for the info. I didn't know if FL honored non-resident UT or not. It was rumored that MN didn't but an instructor showed me that it was. Wasn't sure about FL, so thanks again.

Ahh, so the court can order the proper revision be done, correct?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_10/527775_You_can_open_carry_while_fishing_in_Florida___Video_inside_.html

You can open carry to and from fishing. Gun on your hip and rod in your hand!

Well said.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
- Thomas Jefferson

I understood the court's choice to be to rule banning OC unconstitutional, deregulate CC or, affirm the current state of affairs. The first two would require follow on action from the legislature. The last would not.

ETA: IANAL and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn...

Considering that by lacking open carry we're in the minority of states, I'm sure it will addressed at some point.








 

I was truly astonished by the hate for open carry shown by the police and retired police at the St. Pete Police Pistol Club. Too much worry over telling a criminal from a law abiding carrier. And why isn't CCW good enough for everyone. I saw no love for LIBERTY there.

Surely there must be blood on the streets everywhere, right?  

Criminals tend not to carry openly, it's an idiotic argument.

It makes sense, really.  I hate to say it, but a law-abiding citizen open carrying a firearm does nothing good for a uniformed LEO - and it undermines their authority.  They need people to respect them as the only power on the street, and what good could an openly armed person possible do for them?  Put yourself in your shoes.  Their job is not to champion our Rights - it's to eliminate distractions, do their job as effectively and easily as possible and go home safely at the end of their shift.  "Protect and Serve" died a generation ago.  There's a reason the police in Ferguson are going after the armed people on the roofs protecting buildings rather than the thugs on the street lighting fires.  One is a threat to their authority - the other is job security.  

It's the same logic that makes some people here willing to infringe on someone else's Rights - because it has no benefit to them, and it poses some (usually negligent) risk to them.  However small, there's no incentive to support it.  And that's how we ended up where we are....

Naturally.   Chicago, Detroit...



 

Just joined Florida Carry. Org. Should of done it years ago.
Seems like a legit outfit, Lawyers don't work for free and
regrettably they are the only ones not blown off by officials.