User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
WA, USA
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Posted: 6/9/2013 6:59:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BGENE]
I assume on a composite fill TL rated safe that the composite fill cures similar to concrete and achieves a certain strength after X number of days.
I have seen the old U.L. TL-30 test video were the U.L. guys zip the outer shell off the safe in a matter of maybe 30 seconds, they then proceed to beat on the safe with sledge hammers/picks/chisels repeatedly with no luck. I recognize we are talking serious PSI fill, is it just simple physics, the sledge blows can't generate enough force against the high PSI? I further assume there is all kinds of secret fill like aluminum fibers or whatever holding the fill together behind the scenes. On the X6 safes that have alloy plates in the side, I assume they are fixed during the pour process similar to using rebar with ties during a concrete pour. The term interlocking is tossed around, I assume this is so it is difficult to peel the plates from the composite? I assume the alloy selected is some form of a compromise based on anticipated type of attack, costs, torch vs. drill. I.E., Manganese is superior for this but not that, etc, etc based upon alloy. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. ETA APRIL 2016 - Before this thread became the standard Amsec thread, there were several active threads and I have dug through the archives to add them to this thread. Yet Another AMSEC Safeguy Question AMSEC Question AMSEC Amvault burned in fire AMSEC Questions for Thesafeguy 06-05-13 AMSEC (and new UL) Can the AMSEC ESL10 lock be muted Early thread discussing various AMSEC TL's 2014 thread on S&G Locks added 12/29/19 As requested fire testing added to OP.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/7/2018 3:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azoutlaw:
Please help me answer a few questions I have. I understand that on a TL30 rating, just the door is rated for 30 minutes, and the body gets a 5 minute test with TL tools. However, on the BFII safe, it is essentially a TL10 on all sides. To me this seems the body on the BFII safe has a higher rating than a TL30 safe (such as the browning mentioned above). Can you please help clear this up for me? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Azoutlaw:
Please help me answer a few questions I have. I understand that on a TL30 rating, just the door is rated for 30 minutes, and the body gets a 5 minute test with TL tools. However, on the BFII safe, it is essentially a TL10 on all sides. To me this seems the body on the BFII safe has a higher rating than a TL30 safe (such as the browning mentioned above). Can you please help clear this up for me? Also, if I do end up with the AMSEC TL30x6, the bedroom I want to place the safe in has a 30 inch wide door. Is his safe even possible to install?.... (concrete slab)? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/7/2018 6:23:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the quick and informative response. Can you please answer another question for me? I am looking at prices on the RF703620X6 and the Amvault version (CFX703620x6).
From my understanding the only differences are the RF has the gun interior, correct? Any other differences? The CF seems to be a little cheaper and I plan to use rifle rods anyway...any thoughts or advice? Thank you again! |
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Posted: 8/18/2018 2:41:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Igloo87]
[#3]
...
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Posted: 8/18/2018 2:42:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Igloo87]
[#4]
@TheSafeGuy
It looks like the electronic portion of my LP Redundant EMP lock on my 2 month old, BFII 7240 went bad. I can still get into the safe with the mechanical portion of the lock. The electronic key pad is dead. No noise or flashing of LEDs. I am not locked out (no 10 sec flash of LED). The only time when the key pad makes noise and flashes is when I changed the battery. Any trouble shooting hints? Do I contact AMSEC or the place that I bought the safe from to get this fixed? Thanks again... ETA: I did some more reading and I have an email into AMSEC...Thanks |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2018 9:21:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Do I contact AMSEC or the place that I bought the safe from to get this fixed?
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USA
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Posted: 8/19/2018 2:30:50 AM EDT
[#6]
I read a couple of posts from people with similar issues and am hoping you could give me a hand. I have an AMSEC safe with the ESL5 locking mechanism. Thursday night the battery died and I replaced it (I have to replace the battery every 3 months or so). Ever since then, the safe will not unlock - I have tried my own combination as well as the factory default in case the lock reset itself somehow - neither has worked. I have tried another new, fresh battery, still no joy.
This is the second ESL5 that has failed on me, so I am not impressed and actually am considering paying to upgrade the another mechanism assuming I can actually ever get back into the safe again. The really fun part is I'm an LEO so all my "tools of the trade" are now locked up...not looking forward to having to borrow a handgun from someone if I can't get this resolved before my next shift. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2018 12:42:55 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm an LEO so all my "tools of the trade" are now locked up...not looking forward to having to borrow a handgun from someone if I can't get this resolved before my next shift.
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USA
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Posted: 8/19/2018 2:52:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BrainDead]
[#8]
I tried that first. Called Dean Safe first thing Friday morning, they took my info and said they'd have a tech call me. I called back Friday afternoon and they told me they would call their tech again. After still not hearing back, I called Saturday and was informed their main tech was on vacation and his backup "may not work on the weekends" - I posted here as a last resort kind of thing.
Thanks for the suggestion, though! |
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Posted: 8/24/2018 5:08:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KML7201]
[#9]
I withdraw my comment
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2018 12:18:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Are there any changes slated to go into the 2019 CFX models vs. 2018 due to UL re-testing or other reasons? I have an end of year order and trying to determine if I should wait an extra few weeks and request a 2019 model if it has any enhancements.
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Posted: 8/27/2018 12:37:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WolfNinja:
Are there any changes slated to go into the 2019 CFX models vs. 2018 due to UL re-testing or other reasons? I have an end of year order and trying to determine if I should wait an extra few weeks and request a 2019 model if it has any enhancements. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2018 10:33:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Thank you.
Adding 3 way boltwork + aux key lock/glass relocker to a CFX is a negligible cost. I understand there is a user accessible bolt you can tighten when you transport the safe to prevent the the glass from breaking. If over the years during a move the glass were to break in transport, how much of an expense would it be to repair? I am wondering if adding these extra measures may become an expensive maintenance item down the line. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 11:39:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WolfNinja:
Thank you. Adding 3 way boltwork + aux key lock/glass relocker to a CFX is a negligible cost. I understand there is a user accessible bolt you can tighten when you transport the safe to prevent the the glass from breaking. If over the years during a move the glass were to break in transport, how much of an expense would it be to repair? I am wondering if adding these extra measures may become an expensive maintenance item down the line. |
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DE, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2018 1:52:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Is the BF-HD still being made, or has it been replaced by the BF-II? I was looking at AMSEC's gunsafe catalog, and didn't see anything about the 4 gauge option on the standard BF.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2018 8:51:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Can you remove the door on the AM series safes to make them easier to move?
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Posted: 9/22/2018 1:29:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Is the redundant boltwork that is offered on the BF series safes available (or going to be available) on the VD8036BF vault door?
Thanks for all the answers on the forum! |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 4:26:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Danj:
Can you remove the door on the AM series safes to make them easier to move? |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 4:27:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NerdHerder:
Is the redundant boltwork that is offered on the BF series safes available (or going to be available) on the VD8036BF vault door? Thanks for all the answers on the forum! |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 4:28:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 123456abcdef:
Is the BF-HD still being made, or has it been replaced by the BF-II? I was looking at AMSEC's gunsafe catalog, and didn't see anything about the 4 gauge option on the standard BF. |
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Posted: 9/25/2018 1:55:40 PM EDT
[#20]
We had a tenant leave behind a safe (bolted down) when they moved out, but the keypad isn't working (new batteries) and they didn't leave us the combination. How can I get this open so it can be unbolted and moved?
ESL10 lock 
 
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Posted: 9/25/2018 3:10:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrapos:
We had a tenant leave behind a safe (bolted down) when they moved out, but the keypad isn't working (new batteries) and they didn't leave us the combination. How can I get this open so it can be unbolted and moved? ESL10 lock Need to know what you mean by "not working". Is it dead, as-in there are no beeps or flashes of the LED when you press the C-Key? or... you don't have the code so it won't open? If it's dead, it's possible a new Keypad will get it working. But, without the code, you're locked out. In the case that the lock is unresponsive, with a new or old keypad, it's drill time. If it works, and you don't have the code, you'll need to get a registered locksmith to acquire the Factory Code for that lock. FWIW, This is an original ESL10 lock, made in approximately August 2004. The safe is a competitors unit. The Time Delay display implies there is a locker with a LaGard TDL lock inside. |
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Posted: 9/25/2018 3:39:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Need to know what you mean by "not working". Is it dead, as-in there are no beeps or flashes of the LED when you press the C-Key? or... you don't have the code so it won't open? If it's dead, it's possible a new Keypad will get it working. But, without the code, you're locked out. In the case that the lock is unresponsive, with a new or old keypad, it's drill time. If it works, and you don't have the code, you'll need to get a registered locksmith to acquire the Factory Code for that lock. FWIW, This is an original ESL10 lock, made in approximately August 2004. The safe is a competitors unit. The Time Delay display implies there is a locker with a LaGard TDL lock inside. |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 8:27:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrapos:
Thanks, there are no beeps or flashes from the keypad. I'll see if the old tenant will give up the combo, if not then I'll have to consider locksmith costs for drilling vs simply cutting open the back with an angle grinder. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrapos:
Originally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Need to know what you mean by "not working". Is it dead, as-in there are no beeps or flashes of the LED when you press the C-Key? or... you don't have the code so it won't open? If it's dead, it's possible a new Keypad will get it working. But, without the code, you're locked out. In the case that the lock is unresponsive, with a new or old keypad, it's drill time. If it works, and you don't have the code, you'll need to get a registered locksmith to acquire the Factory Code for that lock. FWIW, This is an original ESL10 lock, made in approximately August 2004. The safe is a competitors unit. The Time Delay display implies there is a locker with a LaGard TDL lock inside. I'm not sure what I accomplished with jiggling the wires on the keypad, but now it beeps! The combination is not 1-2-3-4-5-6, or any simple series like that, I tried a few until I got locked out.  I'll try getting in touch with the old tenant today and see if they remember the combination or are willing to give it up. Hopefully they aren't using the same combination at their new location.
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Posted: 10/7/2018 1:14:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andrapos]
[#24]
They gave me the combination of 456789 which of course didn't work. Pg 2 of this thread in GD has me cutting open the base and busting it open.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Not-another-Safe-thread--OPEN-pg-2-/5-2148599/?page=1 I'll be able to weld a new bottom on it and then I will put some new locks in it. Basically a decent night drop safe for the cost of the locks and a few cutoff wheels. |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 8:49:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Foxxz]
[#25]
The ESL locks have a (hopefully) unique backdoor code to unlock them that locksmiths can obtain to open safes based on safe serial number. Can this code be changed by the end user?
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Posted: 10/8/2018 2:37:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxxz:
The ESL locks have a (hopefully) unique backdoor code to unlock them that locksmiths can obtain to open safes based on safe serial number. Can this code be changed by the end user? Technically, yes, but we do not share that method. It is our view (policy) that to support our proprietary electronic products thru their warranty life, we must be able to maintain the cost effective opening path that a reset code provides. If customers change the Factory Code, we no longer have the opportunity to assist in opening the safe in the event of a lost code. Therefore, if the Factory Code is changed, our policy dictates the Factory Warranty will be void. This may sound harsh, but if you realized that we probably avoid drilling thousands of safes every year by utilizing the Factory Reset Code, you will understand. A typical safe opening (drill job) costs anywhere from $250 to $1000, and on occasion more, depending on several factors. FWIW: In the event you don't care about your Warranty or the opportunity to resolve a lost code condition, and you want to eliminate the possible use of a Factory Reset Code, you can simply remove all serialization on your safe. If we don't have the Serial Number of the Safe or the Lock, we can't look up the codes and provide them to registered safe techs. In effect, the Factory Code is lost. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2018 6:26:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Just had an ESL5 go bad. No help with Amsec CS or multiple emails to them. All the keypad responds to it the "C", anything else there is no beep or light on the keypad.
Any help ? |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 7:25:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SideOrder:
Just had an ESL5 go bad. No help with Amsec CS or multiple emails to them. All the keypad responds to it the "C", anything else there is no beep or light on the keypad. Any help ? |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 7:15:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Great info here.
Any info on this safe? Approx 72h x 40w x 24D Weight, construction, steel thickness, fire rating?  Attached File Attached File Attached FileThanks in advance TSG, and keep sharing. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2018 11:07:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Looking to purchase my first gun safe and have been looking into Amsec products specifically the BF series. There’s a local dealer about an hour away who has the BF6030 on sale for $2570 before delivery.
Seems like a pretty good deal, no? I was originally thinking of something a little bigger so that is my main concern. Any thoughts on realistically how many AR type long guns I could fit it it? |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 10/27/2018 5:51:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: PM your email and phone number... see if I can get someone for you. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! |
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USA
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Posted: 10/29/2018 11:25:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: youm0nt]
[#32]
How did lithium batteries fare in your battery tests for electronic locks? It’s my understanding that alkaline batteries aren’t as good in cold weather. I am considering one of your safes in an unheated garage in a cold climate where it can get below freezing.
I’ve seen the tl30 power tool attack videos. What would a “security on sale video” pry attack be like on an x6 safe? I take it that it would barely budge. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 1:30:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mr2guru]
[#33]
Major score! Picked up this RF6528 at an estate auction for $1500. Added a NOS Mas Hamilton X07 (the s&g didnt feel right, albeit worked.), some touch up paint, and she's ready to go.
Couple questions for TSG, Can I add a pull handle for the outside? The door is smooth but heavy for sure and I feel bad pulling on the bolt actuator handle all the time. Probably moot. Second, while the safe is heavy as, well heavy... and my interior floor couldn't support it necessitating a garage placement... its still movable with some johnson bars, mules, and 2 guys and some oomph. There are no bolt down holes. How long am I drilling for 1 center 5/8" anchor hole using masonry bits and a hammer drill. I figure that's all that is needed to render those moving tools useless. Thirdly, there is a spindle hole for the second lock (not optioned, but provisioned) through the door. Should it be plugged? Does it present a security or fire risk if the exact location is known from the outside? Learned a lot reading this thread... and I thought I already knew a lot. btw, those shelves are bowed (now flipped) due to the weight of the gold the previous owner stored. :o  
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Posted: 12/13/2018 2:35:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By youm0nt:
How did lithium batteries fare in your battery tests for electronic locks? It’s my understanding that alkaline batteries aren’t as good in cold weather. I am considering one of your safes in an unheated garage in a cold climate where it can get below freezing. I’ve seen the tl30 power tool attack videos. What would a “security on sale video” pry attack be like on an x6 safe? I take it that it would barely budge. |
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Posted: 12/13/2018 2:55:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mr2guru:
Can I add a pull handle for the outside? The door is smooth but heavy for sure and I feel bad pulling on the bolt actuator handle all the time. Probably moot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mr2guru:
Can I add a pull handle for the outside? The door is smooth but heavy for sure and I feel bad pulling on the bolt actuator handle all the time. Probably moot. Second, while the safe is heavy as, well heavy... and my interior floor couldn't support it necessitating a garage placement... its still movable with some johnson bars, mules, and 2 guys and some oomph. There are no bolt down holes. How long am I drilling for 1 center 5/8" anchor hole using masonry bits and a hammer drill. I figure that's all that is needed to render those moving tools useless. Thirdly, there is a spindle hole for the second lock (not optioned, but provisioned) through the door. Should it be plugged? Does it present a security or fire risk if the exact location is known from the outside? Some commercial customers bought these safes with the instruction to not use the Aux-Lock plug, because they were installing their own Auxiliary Lock. If this safe is one of those, you can simply buy a 5/8" x 2" Hex Bolt with a lock washer and screw it in the back to effect a good hole-plug. You may need to chase/tap the treads to clean it up for bolt installation. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2018 8:24:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mr2guru]
[#36]
Thanks! Yeah, definitely not plugged. I would throw on a second ESL10x to act as a "day lock" while the kaba is spun open, but the lock bar doesn't reach the second assembly anyway. I'd have to fashion a new longer lock bar.
The visual deterrent of two locks may be worth it to the methhead to not even try and subsequently destroy my locks and handle in vain. I'll give it a go on the anchor... I'll report back with success or disgust/impressed. lol. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/28/2018 9:21:24 PM EDT
[#37]
I just received a new AMSEC NF5924E5 with an ESL10XL lock. I removed the door panel to look at the boltwork and have a few questions:
I’ve included pictures for reference below. Thank you very much. 
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USA
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Posted: 12/31/2018 9:42:12 PM EDT
[#38]
How did that pass QC? Someone needs new glasses.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 9:37:15 AM EDT
[#39]
@TheSafeGuy
I appreciate the info you provide here. It’s very helpful! I’m currently looking for my first safe and found an AmSec safe locally. The specifics are: AmSec MFR. FILE: BP6526 MODEL: 6 / 7 / F / D / B / G DATE CODE: QUARTER: 3 YEAR : 98 The safe looks to be in decent shape. Shelves and liner look to be in good shape. The handle has what looks like some corrosion spots. My concern is the safe looks like it’s been sitting on a concrete floor and the concrete looks like there’s a some rust staining on it (pic below). The seller is firm on $700. I haven't seen it in person, I've only emailed the seller seeing if it was still available. Wondering if you think it’s a value buy. Thanks again.  Attached File |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2019 3:06:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: born2die]
[#40]
@TSG,
Could you tell us more on BFS912E5LP that's on your web site but not in the 2018 catalog? Imported? Cast insulation? Steel plate in the door? How does it compare to the "real" BF series in terms of fire and burglary resistance? Been looking for a compact fire safe that doesn't suck, this seems to fit the bill... Thx :) |
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USA
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Posted: 1/21/2019 10:22:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JTHulkster]
[#41]
mr2guru, I noticed you added an X-07 to your TL-30: Dial slipping on spindle (can not retract bolt), bit-flip (sounds bad doesn't it?), and the bolt relock pin lockout (yikes!). While your lock may be good to go, with a nice safe the cost of a lockout would cause me to add a good mechanical lock instead. Betting you knew this already.
Your box looks like it is in a garage, so just wanted to leave one more comment. Have you seen the safe cloak, tacky as hell right? I purchased one for my Amvault and had a tailor fix it for me to match my front dimensions. I love it a lot now. On the odd chance that the garage door is open, anyone just peeping in sees nothing but a 'typical' garage. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2019 11:18:43 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm trying to decide between a BFII series or AmVault TL-15.
BFII6636 - $6,038.00 Amvault TL-15 (CE-6528) - $5,355.00 The AmVault appears to be a better safe in regards to fire protection and attack resistance. It's also cheaper. What advantages does the BFII have other then the interior and warranty? Thanks! |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2019 5:19:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Hello, I'm a newbie here but have been reading and lurking for a while but finally joined (to read this entire thread you have to have been around for a while)
Thanks TSG and others for all of your insight and information - it has been amazingly valuable. The question I have doesn't seem to have been answered so far in this thread - maybe partly. It has to do with used safes. If I go to various sites or local used safe places, I can find used TL15 and TL30 safes for sale, many are 20-30 years old (or more) and they still command fairly good prices. That would lead me to think that the TL requirements/ratings haven't changed over the years, but I get the sense that the tools available to compromise the safes have. So does a TL15 from 30 years ago not really measure up to a TL15 today? In particular plate steel safes (see below). I did see in this thread that even heavy (thick - let's say 1" for example) plate steel safes can be "easily" compromised with saws/grinders. So, ignoring the issue of fire protection - only considering security, what is the market for these used plate steel safes which I get the sense that they don't offer as much security as say a Amsec BF safe with composite construction. Or am I wrong? Clearly a plate steel safe will be far and away superior to the big box store safes in terms of security - no smash and grab from them. But are they really a relic from the past because today's tools and torches can make short work of them compared to composite safes? |
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Posted: 2/8/2019 9:28:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2019 6:18:58 PM EDT
[#45]
When comparing the costs for the two safes, a couple things to consider......
The CE6528 weighs in at around 3400 lbs, which is going to cost you additional when it comes to moving it. This is true for any safe over 2000 lbs, since a conventional truck lift gate can only handle up to 2000lbs. You will either need to rent a forklift, have somebody who can operate it, and have it on stand-by when the safe get there....... or have it delivered to a moving company dock and pay them to deliver it. You are also going to have to build a gun interior and buy / make a door organizer. In the end you would have a more secure safe, but it will most likely cost you more in the end than the BF, and be more inconvenient to deliver. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 6:24:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kermit68:
When comparing the costs for the two safes, a couple things to consider...... The CE6528 weighs in at around 3400 lbs, which is going to cost you additional when it comes to moving it. This is true for any safe over 2000 lbs, since a conventional truck lift gate can only handle up to 2000lbs. You will either need to rent a forklift, have somebody who can operate it, and have it on stand-by when the safe get there....... or have it delivered to a moving company dock and pay them to deliver it. You are also going to have to build a gun interior and buy / make a door organizer. In the end you would have a more secure safe, but it will most likely cost you more in the end than the BF, and be more inconvenient to deliver. Of course, this leads to the garage. I have a huge, 2 x 2 garage. There is even a nice recessed area I could use. I don't know how I'd feel about a garage install due to: Weather, heat, humidity, cold (batteries in NVGs, optics, etc) Ease of access/removal for potential burglar Picking a safe is only one thing. Finding a place to put it and getting it installed seems like 90% of the fight. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/9/2019 11:24:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Ok, I have the 1st question of the year for TSG. Has a Sargent and Greenleaf Time Lock been fitted to a TL30 Amvault (eg 6280)? Would this be an unusual request of AMSEC and typical of something special order and not for a composite safe, maybe typical of plate only? Likely easier to change the type of lock for specific time of entry.
Second question which may have been asked already. Would it be true that TL30 Amvault burglary resistance is the following: 90's < 00's < 10's? Or was the 1st generation product pretty damn good and it hardened to a slab to pure defense? Just curious as my locksmith put the fear of god in me that it would be $$$ for a lockout. In response to some of the questions above, if I had the money again I would order new with the specifics that I wanted (TL30 / UL 681 setup), be sure that the alarm company knows what they are doing, AND use a reputable locksmith who sells high security products. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2019 1:14:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JTHulkster:
Ok, I have the 1st question of the year for TSG. Has a Sargent and Greenleaf Time Lock been fitted to a TL30 Amvault (eg 6280)? Would this be an unusual request of AMSEC and typical of something special order and not for a composite safe, maybe typical of plate only? Likely easier to change the type of lock for specific time of entry. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JTHulkster:
Ok, I have the 1st question of the year for TSG. Has a Sargent and Greenleaf Time Lock been fitted to a TL30 Amvault (eg 6280)? Would this be an unusual request of AMSEC and typical of something special order and not for a composite safe, maybe typical of plate only? Likely easier to change the type of lock for specific time of entry. 
The places where we can apply this in a custom configuration are limited to TL safes. This is -never- requested or sold for residential use, so the option to install the Timelock is not supported in most non-TL rated safe designs. There are good alternatives if you wish to set desired/scheduled times to allow opening. One option is the ESLAudit access control system. It can be installed on any safe, and replaces the Keypad with a "Controller". You can Google it and read about the features, but it's very capable of tons of higher level control scenarios. 
(sorry the linked image from the website is so big.) The ESLAudit is fast becoming the access control system of choice, with a reasonable price point, it's not a terrible choice for personal protection. You have the opportunity to use digital "eKeys" and PIN Codes to elevate the level of security, you can control other Users with a host of administrative tools, and it's reliability is proving to be extremely good. This lock is currently getting deployed into every Walgreens and Walmart pharmacy in the nation to secure Schedule I and II controlled substances. Second question which may have been asked already. Would it be true that TL30 Amvault burglary resistance is the following: 90's < 00's < 10's? Or was the 1st generation product pretty damn good and it hardened to a slab to pure defense? Just curious as my locksmith put the fear of god in me that it would be $$$ for a lockout. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2019 1:27:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lightman:
If I go to various sites or local used safe places, I can find used TL15 and TL30 safes for sale, many are 20-30 years old (or more) and they still command fairly good prices. That would lead me to think that the TL requirements/ratings haven't changed over the years, but I get the sense that the tools available to compromise the safes have. So does a TL15 from 30 years ago not really measure up to a TL15 today? In particular plate steel safes (see below). I did see in this thread that even heavy (thick - let's say 1" for example) plate steel safes can be "easily" compromised with saws/grinders. So, ignoring the issue of fire protection - only considering security, what is the market for these used plate steel safes which I get the sense that they don't offer as much security as say a Amsec BF safe with composite construction. Or am I wrong? Clearly a plate steel safe will be far and away superior to the big box store safes in terms of security - no smash and grab from them. But are they really a relic from the past because today's tools and torches can make short work of them compared to composite safes? Well, first and foremost, we are talking about tool resistant safes, not torch resistant. A torch resistant safe will push into the $10k-plus price range, even for a small one. There is so little demand for them that they are only made by a few offshore companies. Used plate safes are a great security selection. My sales guys would shoot me for saying that, but I'm here to help, not to sell. Yes, UL listings improve over time, but as noted in my last post, they are not huge leaps in security. UL learns as we go from one re-test to the next on the 7-year cycle. I have managed 4 cycles of this forced security evolution, and none of these increments required sweeping revolutionary change. It has brought about a few "innovations" that were good, but for the most part it's small increments. I would not turn away an opportunity to buy a 30 year old TL if my budget was limiting my buying power. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2019 1:49:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ssean15:
I'm trying to decide between a BFII series or AmVault TL-15. BFII6636 - $6,038.00 Amvault TL-15 (CE-6528) - $5,355.00 The AmVault appears to be a better safe in regards to fire protection and attack resistance. It's also cheaper. What advantages does the BFII have other then the interior and warranty? Thanks! Franky, none. I was not aware that consumer retail prices have presented this point of confusion. This may be a dealer-specific pricing thing. If I look at the "official" price book, the RF6528 (TL30) sells for $7500 -retail-. The CE6528 (TL15) sells for $5678 retail (no gun interior). The more comparably sized BFII6030 (textured finish) sells for $4920. The BFII-6636 is a much larger safe, and it's not really fair to compare it to a CE6528. Please note, the retail numbers are published prices that we provide, and our dealers are not allowed to -advertise- prices below the published MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) program pricing. They do not necessarily represent the prices that dealers and distributors may sell at. They can work on smaller margins and sell well below MAP prices if they choose, they just can't advertise below MAP prices. |
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